I would like to see this video of Lifecoach TGT analysis would be interesting to watch. Overall I think the reason the streamers are being somewhat harder on the expansion than I probably would be in their shoes is this expansion seems to be built on giving out a lot of techs against certain types of decks or is built to help improve or build a new archetype for the classes.
I tend to be more hopeful new decks types will arise from this expansion but I can understand the streamers doubting a new archetype will arise from it as I doubt it myself. Still there are some really good cards from this expansion and as someone who has so many issues with Ragnaros the Firelord hitting the wrong targets(he really loves Silverhand Recruits for some reason) I intend to try out Icehowl in my Control Warrior to see if he can work in it.
The thing is most streamers say that most of the cards are bad because they're to slow especially trump while most of them don't even consider that the meta cannot remain anywhere near as fast as it is now
If Kripp, Noxious, me, you etc etc said "11 cards are good" then they/we wouldnt mean the same thing that lifecoach means when he says the exact same words. What i mean is that words without context are often meaningless. When lifecoach says "11 cards are good" what he means is that those are the cards that he found(with his rating system) to be 100% very valueable.
Trump wasnt so pessimistic about TGT, he just took the opportunity to connect recent hearthstone discussions: Lifecoach's "11 cards are good" and the "omfg powercreep" threads&videos going around with kripp's newest video and his video discussion with Ben Brode... in order to reveal his middleground "more sensible" approach to the hearthstone community.
I dont think that TGT is like previous expansions/adventures at all, and to judge it in comparison with them would be a huge mistake. Previous expansions/adventures had clear themed minions... deathrattles(naxx), mechs(GvG),Dragons(BRM) ...and those minions came in a smaller card pool to make a bigger splash, and in metas with decks that werent sculpted into ultimate efficiency over several months.
TGT seems like a more of fill-in the gaps and add some new possibilities expansion. This is the reason why i wouldnt be too worried if what people think is TGT's main theme... the inspire mechanic... kinda fails. In that case maybe Blizzard can make inspire decks viable with future expansions/adventures if that's something that they were actually aiming for. ...and the possibilities are there, Trump said it too, because there are interesting unpredictable cards that, not unlike patron, might as well somehow bring a new good deck out of nowhere.
About both Trump and lifecoach agreeing that priest got crapped on... This reminds me of a poll that i saw relatively recently on reddit about which class is the most annoying. In that poll hunter was number1, but number2 (even now that priest is not viable at all) was priest. You wrote that you like priest... but i dont know if most of the hearthstone community, me included (sorry), would call priest being crapped on a bad thing.
I didn't watch lifecoach's 100 hour review but I think they are right for what you said. The inspire and the joust mechanics were overvalued in most cards but there is no reason to be sad. GvG made the game more fun and most cards of that set are crap. BRM was even worse since the decks basically didn't change apart from adding emperor and some class cards and of course there is that annoying op deck that this expansion brought. Every expansion affects the meta: Naxx brought a lot of crazy op cards for all kinds of decks, GvG helped aggro decks and BRM helped combo decks.
About TGT, I think it will be fun and it will probably slow down the meta at least a little bit. If you are sad for being a priest player look at the rogue cards in this set. Blizzard hates rogues.In the end the good decks might not change much but the game always ends up better because with new cards there is more room for creativity even if it's not competitive. Although now I find grim patron toxic to the meta it was at first an interesting deck with an unique play style.
Lastly I just want to point out how all that testing Blizzard says they do sound bullshit to me. If they tested so much how didn't they foresee that the dragon decks of BRM would be absolutely crushed by the pre-existing aggro decks? I love the dragons, but I don't like losing 70% of the games for trying to play them. What happened to the dragons is likely to happen with the inspire decks. TGT will probably be good but it certainly could have been way better.
I actually don't think they are looking to make big changes with this release. More looking to tweak a few things a bit. Tone down Shredder. Tone down aggro. Tone up Shaman. Make mill a bit stronger. Etc... Nothing ground breaking, a percent or two here and a percent or two there.
And I think they accomplished that nicely.
I expect there to be more variety in the meta as aggro shinks a little and control grows a bit. Not too much, don't want to swing the pendulum too far, just a nudge. Balance is very important to variety.
That's how I see it anyway. Not nuking things down, but, giving gentle nudges.
I think Trump & Lifecoach will be right probably on 90% of the cards.
Started with GvG, they out of the blue wants a new murloc type deck for shaman and gave them Siltfin Spiritwalker and Neptulon and of course that didn't work out at all.
Out of the 20 Legendaries in GvG, only 2 is viable(Dr. Boom, Mal'Ganis) and are consistent in competitive decks...seriously how much testing is done here?
In BRM, NONE of the dragon decks are viable in the tournament scene...except Malygos warlock...which is probably unintentional. Grim Patron is also probably did not turn out the way Blizz intended.
I am also slowly losing confidence with Blizz because I truly don't believe they know the meta...what needs to be done....what sparks up new archetype. Inspire will be too slow...Joust will be too inconsistent to be competitive. The only thing they might have up their selves to save this expansion is if they're nerfing some key aggro cards to slow down the meta otherwise there really isn't enough defensive tools to stop aggro and all these fancy control cards won't see play at all.
Someone made a great post about 3-4 weeks ago that broke down the % of great cards released from Naxx, GvG, & BRM to project the % of cards here in TGT that will actually see constructed play on a regular basis. Granted it was someone objective I think he was pretty spot on with his judgement.
The conclusion was from Naxx to GvG to BRM the percentage of cards that saw construction play decreased from something like 32% in Naxx to 27% in Gvg to 24% in BRM. The justfication here was that Blizzard was to some degree concerned about powercreep and as a result were releasing less and less tier 1 cards per expansion.
As a result of all of this he projected we'd see something in the 25% range of cards coming out of TGT that would see construction play which would put us right around 30 cards. After see everything available that's about right were we are.
tldr; if 30 cards come out of TGT to see construction play it will be on par with other expansions.
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It sure seems Blizzard values RNG and "surprise" over everything else. Especially when it comes to Priest.... :/
Sure seems like TGT cards were designed with "fun" in mind, and nothing to especially introduce new things (or counter current things) in the meta. I'm looking at you Sideshow Spelleater for example.
I think Trump was definitely more spot on with his analysis of the number of cards he felt would be viable and see play. I think Lifecoach is a tad bit too overly critical in his approach; the Prime Minister of Value Town. Like everyone else has said, we can't judge too much without getting at least a months worth of play time. And then we may or may not agree on "The Slightly Irrelevant Tournament".
They are good at "driving" decks. Thats it, thats why they are pros. And Trump isnt even a good player.
Most of the pro players are not good deckbuilders, they just can learn and execute a deck's strategy to its fullest potential.
So their opinions are irrelevant unless they are good deckbuilders and have a clear insight to the next meta.
That's not true. They are playing enough of this game to actually be able to discuss the meta. Also... what do you know about their deckbuilding capibilities., Yeah right, nothing.
Please find another forum where you can troll people!
I had enough of your all-knowing wisdom. I could go on and discuss why I disagree with you but I wont feed the troll.
Seriously, thats not the first case, leave this website with your great wisdom!
You get your questionable claims disputed and your first reaction is to engage in personal attack. You ought to be banned from this forum permanently.
I don't see any personal attacks here.
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My legendary count excluding adventure legendaries, dupes and old murk eye: 40
They are good at "driving" decks. Thats it, thats why they are pros. And Trump isnt even a good player.
Most of the pro players are not good deckbuilders, they just can learn and execute a deck's strategy to its fullest potential.
So their opinions are irrelevant unless they are good deckbuilders and have a clear insight to the next meta.
^this. Honestly I have not seen any original deck from the pro except for Amaz's Priest, Firebat's Freeze Priest and Savjz's original eboladin with Hobgoblin and the last but not final meta bender Strifecro mechmage.
If my brain did not fail me, I think Xixo is the father of Face Hunter. Since he is the first to play Face Hunter in the tournament after Starving Buzzard + Unleash the Hounds combo being nerfed.
Don't get me wrong there are many original deck that has been tried by the professional but they are just underwhelmed.
They are good at "driving" decks. Thats it, thats why they are pros. And Trump isnt even a good player.
Most of the pro players are not good deckbuilders, they just can learn and execute a deck's strategy to its fullest potential.
So their opinions are irrelevant unless they are good deckbuilders and have a clear insight to the next meta.
^this. Honestly I have not seen any original deck from the pro except for Amaz's Priest, Firebat's Freeze Priest and Savjz's original eboladin with Hobgoblin and the last but not final meta bender Strifecro mechmage.
If my brain did not fail me, I think Xixo is the father of Face Hunter. Since he is the first to play Face Hunter in the tournament after Starving Buzzard + Unleash the Hounds combo being nerfed.
Don't get me wrong there are many original deck that has been tried by the professional but they are just underwhelmed.
Zoo classical - Reynad. Malylock - Neirea, ShtanUdachi(both - mostly top100 EU, both streamers). Patron - many creators, but viable base was maden by P4wnyhauf(1 of top-streamers), Zalae, last the most viable version - by SjoW (btw and lot of viable versions of CW was maden by SjoW also - depends of meta). Demonlock - SilentStorm. Some Face Hunters very influencing variations - Chakki (not only Xixo).
Not all of viable meta-decks of actual meta of course was made of 'pro' - but decent part of them, without any doubts. I don't believe that some "nonames" make a meta - in netdecking name of author of decklist is a lot!;)
Watched Lifecoach's review, most of time he rated cards trying to adjust them to existing decks, so if there'll be some new archetype - his rating will be wrong.
I bet with all of you, who blindly trust those ProGamers (who are not pro-deckbuilders or developers) that we will see at least 20+ cards from this set being used regullary in the ladder in different decks. (there are between 30 and 40 often used cards from GvG)
I really can't see why so many people see those streamers as authorities in this topic. Anyone who often build functional decks for fun has probably a better understanding in which cards will be usefull than those guys. They are just good in playing this game with the decks other people built for them..
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Who can take your trash out? Stomp it down for you? Shake the plastic bag and do the twisty thingy, too?
I also belief that TGT is just a medicore expansion. Still the greatness of a card is not only limited to ranked and tournament play, arena counts as well.
It is good to hear the opinion of Trump, Kripp and Lifecoach about the new cards, but it is only this: An opinion. As said earlier, they are not deck builder, generally they only play decks which were created by other people. Some cards tend to be great if the right deck is created for them. Best example is the Patron. Judged as bad from everyone but since the creation of Patron Warrior people ask him to be nerfed.
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Lifecoach: "bad, bad, bad, bad, irrelevant, bad, bad, bad, not really bad but irrelevant, bad, bad.."
Chat: Every card is bad
Lifecoach: Ok so we only need to worry about 11 relevant cards in TGT so thats good. Hope you like my review bye. :)
Chat:
Legend Rogue, druid when lazy
I would like to see this video of Lifecoach TGT analysis would be interesting to watch. Overall I think the reason the streamers are being somewhat harder on the expansion than I probably would be in their shoes is this expansion seems to be built on giving out a lot of techs against certain types of decks or is built to help improve or build a new archetype for the classes.
I tend to be more hopeful new decks types will arise from this expansion but I can understand the streamers doubting a new archetype will arise from it as I doubt it myself. Still there are some really good cards from this expansion and as someone who has so many issues with Ragnaros the Firelord hitting the wrong targets(he really loves Silverhand Recruits for some reason) I intend to try out Icehowl in my Control Warrior to see if he can work in it.
The thing is most streamers say that most of the cards are bad because they're to slow especially trump while most of them don't even consider that the meta cannot remain anywhere near as fast as it is now
Trump wasnt so pessimistic about TGT, he just took the opportunity to connect recent hearthstone discussions: Lifecoach's "11 cards are good" and the "omfg powercreep" threads&videos going around with kripp's newest video and his video discussion with Ben Brode... in order to reveal his middleground "more sensible" approach to the hearthstone community.
I dont think that TGT is like previous expansions/adventures at all, and to judge it in comparison with them would be a huge mistake. Previous expansions/adventures had clear themed minions... deathrattles(naxx), mechs(GvG),Dragons(BRM) ...and those minions came in a smaller card pool to make a bigger splash, and in metas with decks that werent sculpted into ultimate efficiency over several months.
TGT seems like a more of fill-in the gaps and add some new possibilities expansion. This is the reason why i wouldnt be too worried if what people think is TGT's main theme... the inspire mechanic... kinda fails. In that case maybe Blizzard can make inspire decks viable with future expansions/adventures if that's something that they were actually aiming for. ...and the possibilities are there, Trump said it too, because there are interesting unpredictable cards that, not unlike patron, might as well somehow bring a new good deck out of nowhere.
About both Trump and lifecoach agreeing that priest got crapped on... This reminds me of a poll that i saw relatively recently on reddit about which class is the most annoying. In that poll hunter was number1, but number2 (even now that priest is not viable at all) was priest. You wrote that you like priest... but i dont know if most of the hearthstone community, me included (sorry), would call priest being crapped on a bad thing.
I didn't watch lifecoach's 100 hour review but I think they are right for what you said. The inspire and the joust mechanics were overvalued in most cards but there is no reason to be sad. GvG made the game more fun and most cards of that set are crap. BRM was even worse since the decks basically didn't change apart from adding emperor and some class cards and of course there is that annoying op deck that this expansion brought. Every expansion affects the meta: Naxx brought a lot of crazy op cards for all kinds of decks, GvG helped aggro decks and BRM helped combo decks.
About TGT, I think it will be fun and it will probably slow down the meta at least a little bit. If you are sad for being a priest player look at the rogue cards in this set. Blizzard hates rogues.In the end the good decks might not change much but the game always ends up better because with new cards there is more room for creativity even if it's not competitive. Although now I find grim patron toxic to the meta it was at first an interesting deck with an unique play style.
Lastly I just want to point out how all that testing Blizzard says they do sound bullshit to me. If they tested so much how didn't they foresee that the dragon decks of BRM would be absolutely crushed by the pre-existing aggro decks? I love the dragons, but I don't like losing 70% of the games for trying to play them. What happened to the dragons is likely to happen with the inspire decks. TGT will probably be good but it certainly could have been way better.
I actually don't think they are looking to make big changes with this release. More looking to tweak a few things a bit. Tone down Shredder. Tone down aggro. Tone up Shaman. Make mill a bit stronger. Etc... Nothing ground breaking, a percent or two here and a percent or two there.
And I think they accomplished that nicely.
I expect there to be more variety in the meta as aggro shinks a little and control grows a bit. Not too much, don't want to swing the pendulum too far, just a nudge. Balance is very important to variety.
That's how I see it anyway. Not nuking things down, but, giving gentle nudges.
Galavant Animation
I think Trump & Lifecoach will be right probably on 90% of the cards.
Started with GvG, they out of the blue wants a new murloc type deck for shaman and gave them Siltfin Spiritwalker and Neptulon and of course that didn't work out at all.
Out of the 20 Legendaries in GvG, only 2 is viable(Dr. Boom, Mal'Ganis) and are consistent in competitive decks...seriously how much testing is done here?
In BRM, NONE of the dragon decks are viable in the tournament scene...except Malygos warlock...which is probably unintentional. Grim Patron is also probably did not turn out the way Blizz intended.
I am also slowly losing confidence with Blizz because I truly don't believe they know the meta...what needs to be done....what sparks up new archetype. Inspire will be too slow...Joust will be too inconsistent to be competitive. The only thing they might have up their selves to save this expansion is if they're nerfing some key aggro cards to slow down the meta otherwise there really isn't enough defensive tools to stop aggro and all these fancy control cards won't see play at all.
Someone made a great post about 3-4 weeks ago that broke down the % of great cards released from Naxx, GvG, & BRM to project the % of cards here in TGT that will actually see constructed play on a regular basis. Granted it was someone objective I think he was pretty spot on with his judgement.
The conclusion was from Naxx to GvG to BRM the percentage of cards that saw construction play decreased from something like 32% in Naxx to 27% in Gvg to 24% in BRM. The justfication here was that Blizzard was to some degree concerned about powercreep and as a result were releasing less and less tier 1 cards per expansion.
As a result of all of this he projected we'd see something in the 25% range of cards coming out of TGT that would see construction play which would put us right around 30 cards. After see everything available that's about right were we are.
tldr; if 30 cards come out of TGT to see construction play it will be on par with other expansions.
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I'm sure Hearthstone has the World's Leading Card Designing team.
It sure seems Blizzard values RNG and "surprise" over everything else. Especially when it comes to Priest.... :/
Sure seems like TGT cards were designed with "fun" in mind, and nothing to especially introduce new things (or counter current things) in the meta. I'm looking at you Sideshow Spelleater for example.
LOL LOVE and AM SAD by your signature!
I think Trump was definitely more spot on with his analysis of the number of cards he felt would be viable and see play. I think Lifecoach is a tad bit too overly critical in his approach; the Prime Minister of Value Town. Like everyone else has said, we can't judge too much without getting at least a months worth of play time. And then we may or may not agree on "The Slightly Irrelevant Tournament".
I don't see any personal attacks here.
My legendary count excluding adventure legendaries, dupes and old murk eye: 40
$$$ spent on this game: 0
Check out my card collection: http://www.hearthpwn.com/members/MCFUser175154/collection
There are a lot of fun cards in TGT but from a Meta point of view it's mediocre at best.
That said, as mentioned above, sometimes the critics are wrong.
Pile on!
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^this. Honestly I have not seen any original deck from the pro except for Amaz's Priest, Firebat's Freeze Priest and Savjz's original eboladin with Hobgoblin and the last but not final meta bender Strifecro mechmage.
If my brain did not fail me, I think Xixo is the father of Face Hunter. Since he is the first to play Face Hunter in the tournament after Starving Buzzard + Unleash the Hounds combo being nerfed.
Don't get me wrong there are many original deck that has been tried by the professional but they are just underwhelmed.
Zoo classical - Reynad. Malylock - Neirea, ShtanUdachi(both - mostly top100 EU, both streamers). Patron - many creators, but viable base was maden by P4wnyhauf(1 of top-streamers), Zalae, last the most viable version - by SjoW (btw and lot of viable versions of CW was maden by SjoW also - depends of meta). Demonlock - SilentStorm. Some Face Hunters very influencing variations - Chakki (not only Xixo).
Not all of viable meta-decks of actual meta of course was made of 'pro' - but decent part of them, without any doubts. I don't believe that some "nonames" make a meta - in netdecking name of author of decklist is a lot!;)
Watched Lifecoach's review, most of time he rated cards trying to adjust them to existing decks, so if there'll be some new archetype - his rating will be wrong.
I bet with all of you, who blindly trust those ProGamers (who are not pro-deckbuilders or developers) that we will see at least 20+ cards from this set being used regullary in the ladder in different decks. (there are between 30 and 40 often used cards from GvG)
I really can't see why so many people see those streamers as authorities in this topic. Anyone who often build functional decks for fun has probably a better understanding in which cards will be usefull than those guys. They are just good in playing this game with the decks other people built for them..
Who can take your trash out?
Stomp it down for you?
Shake the plastic bag
and do the twisty thingy, too?
I don't get why should you listen to those two in the first place. Cuz they are "pro"?
I also belief that TGT is just a medicore expansion. Still the greatness of a card is not only limited to ranked and tournament play, arena counts as well.
It is good to hear the opinion of Trump, Kripp and Lifecoach about the new cards, but it is only this: An opinion. As said earlier, they are not deck builder, generally they only play decks which were created by other people. Some cards tend to be great if the right deck is created for them. Best example is the Patron. Judged as bad from everyone but since the creation of Patron Warrior people ask him to be nerfed.