Face Hunter player here, loose all the time against Patron. I don't think it should be nerfed. I think people should stop complaining and just switch deck. Patron is not unbeatable.
I think Patron is pretty cool and features unique mechanics. I played MTG and I think Patron is one of the coolest decks I ever seen.
I have the same opinion about MTG. Unless a deck is completely metawarping (which Patron isn't), cards shouldn't be touched. It's a disappointment for players. I hope blizzard doesn't do what Wizzards did, banning an archetype just because it was the best (Modern Pod). It was also pretty cool and it wasn't metawarping.
pod wasnt metawarping, but its a very very pinpoint tool box. it fetches answers in a way no other deck can at the time if i remember.
also its more of a preventive measure than anything else i think for further abuse. when it comes to ban, theres preventative ban and must bans, i think pod falls in a categories as preventative bans unlike jace and skullclamp.
I'm sure everyone complaining and crying for nerfs to patron are legend players. Not bad rank 20 players who need to l2p. Sure.
It might be true about people protecting it, since they even didn't met Patron warrior on their rank
Nah, defenders are usually the better players.
Yes. Yes, they are. On Opposite World.
Nope this is pretty much true. Better players know how to better deal with Patron, hence, while they realize it's very good, they don't go crazy about how it needs a nerf.
...and yet almost every pro-player rated Patron Warrior as the strongest deck for past...how many season?
"Better players know how to better deal with Patron" ... sure, but better players also no how to play Patron Warrior better.
Never said it wasn't the strongest deck. As a matter of fact it obviously is. But that wasn't what I was addressing in my post.
I disagree with you about Pod :P I think Pod is an amazing unique card that creates a pretty unique archetype and so didn't deserve the ban. There's no place you can play it now (it's not viable in Legacy, at all). I think the same about Legacy Survival. They should have banned Vengevine as it would keep the archetype alive.
That being said,I tend to agree with you about Battle rage. It will make the deck a bit weaker without killing it completely. What I'm against is the nerfs being proposed here to Frothing and Warsong as it would just kill the deck.
The grim patron nerf is inevitable, so it's pointless that Blizzard is waiting to see how the meta changes until after TGT is released. It's still going to be a top tier deck, and it's still going to annoy everyone with frequent OTKs. The fact that it's taken this long has really turned me off from this game.
As a Magic player, I have to say that today's problem in Modern is the excess of bans. If the nerf makes the decks still playable, the everything will be fine.. but what they did to Miracles was a hard-ban. The deck 'became' Oil Rogue, that's another deck! some cards are core to both decks, but the strategy is alltogether different, making it worst, competitive enough to say the least. Can Patron decks work without charging Berserkers, Warsong, Rage or Patron itself? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe a whole new deck emerges from a nerf to some cards and some new others beeing released.
Patron is a very beatable deck but it when you look at it and other decks from the past that were super popular, that then got nerfed you will see some pretty startling comparisons.
Miracle rogue had the god like draw engine made pulling burst combos and just shred everything easy.
Original sunshine hunter was able to draw the answers needed to win.
OTK hunter extremely difficult to prevent the combo due to massive card draw engine.
Giant warrior if you didnt burst 15 you lost.
original freeze mage players could not play around or counter the freeze mechanic.
Since patron shares traits with all of these decks in terms of why they got nerfed then one has to ask why was this not taken care off. 2 of the most offending cards in that deck are the battle rage and the warsong commander. Both were nerfed down from even more ungodly states. And at the time those nerfs needed to happen. And in the case of Giant warrior that deck was not around all that long before it got nerfed. So to say there has not been enough time to look at the data is a little short sighted.
The two things blizzard has been limiting or keeping an eye on in this game is mass card draws(more then 3 a turn) and gameplay that punish you for playing correctly. In most well played patron matches having a board states equals your own death. The fact that you can play a control warrior have 60 life with armor and lose in 1 turn with out the aid of say alexstraza is a little overwhelming. Fact that the deck is an auto pick in every tournament says a lot of its power.
Yeah because let's talk nerfs just right before an expansion.
Yup, thank you. People need to understand that each expansion is designed with current performance and deck strengths in mind. If there is no nerf to an existing card, that means internal testing showed that the new cards will help counter existing archtypes. Remember when Auctioneer was nerfed? Or Undertaker? These were cards which were not reigned in by the new expansion, and instead needed to be directly adjusted. It's GOOD news that Patron is not being directly nerfed: the new cards will likely hit Patron really hard, then.
yeah exactly like how people stopped using undertaker when GvG came out ... ... ... oh wait, undertaker was used until the day he was nerfed and the expansion just made him better :).
I highly doubt they would nerf Patron right before TGT. It's not like Gagetzan Auctioneer which was getting a massive buff from the Spare Parts.
Give it a week or two. If Blizzard's reason for nerfing Leeroy Jenkins was honest and legitimate they HAVE to nerf Patron. You can literally replace the words in their reasoning for nerfing Leeroy with Patron cards and it fits identically.
Blizzard probobly hopes either a slower more control-based game is worse for Patron or something they've added stops it.
Patron is fine, if you play Chillmaw they can't really go off unless they have like Inner Rage + Execute and the combo, but that's highly unlikely.
So everyone has to play Dragon decks and specifically draw 1 card out of 30 in their decks; and keep that 6 HP minion alive the entire game to stop Patron?
Either you're being sarcastic or you're a Patron player if you think that is reasonable.
Well, I've lost to Kill Command or PO+Doomguard more often than I lose to any Patron/Frothing combo, so there's that. The people that bitch about patron being OP are usually those who either lose 1 out of 20 or whatever games to a 36atk frothing or can't manage to play the deck themselves.
and those that defend the deck are the ones using it...So your argument is well moot.
Well, I've lost to Kill Command or PO+Doomguard more often than I lose to any Patron/Frothing combo, so there's that. The people that bitch about patron being OP are usually those who either lose 1 out of 20 or whatever games to a 36atk frothing or can't manage to play the deck themselves.
As I said before, it's not that people can't play the deck (maybe some can't, but it's not always the case). People don't always wan't to win easy way, while also loosing to game-breaking decks. It's not fun to be killed by combo that you know sometimes you can't do anything to prevent it.
And, btw, I played the patron and won a lot of games with it, and I admit - it's hard to master. But sometimes I just felt sorry for my opponents, because you may simply draw 3/4 of your deck in first 7-8 turn and demolish them, even when they were playing really good.
It's obvious people tends to go easy way, but it's not satisfying for everyone, just as so many people don't want to play cancer decks.
Well, I've lost to Kill Command or PO+Doomguard more often than I lose to any Patron/Frothing combo, so there's that. The people that bitch about patron being OP are usually those who either lose 1 out of 20 or whatever games to a 36atk frothing or can't manage to play the deck themselves.
I just posted this in another thread, but I'll repost here, because I see the same bogus statistic. I played 5 games yesterday. 3 of them were against patron warrior. I was one-shotted down from above 25 health in all three games against the patron warrior. It happens way more often than once in 20 games if you are playing a control deck. OTKs are only rare for those playing aggressive decks or playing at lower ranks where the patron player doesn't know what he's doing.
Well, I've lost to Kill Command or PO+Doomguard more often than I lose to any Patron/Frothing combo, so there's that. The people that bitch about patron being OP are usually those who either lose 1 out of 20 or whatever games to a 36atk frothing or can't manage to play the deck themselves.
I just posted this in another thread, but I'll repost here, because I see the same bogus statistic. I played 5 games yesterday. 3 of them were against patron warrior. I was one-shotted down from above 25 health in all three games against the patron warrior. It happens way more often than once in 20 games if you are playing a control deck. OTKs are only rare for those playing aggressive decks or playing at lower ranks where the patron player doesn't know what he's doing.
I play all sorts of decks at legend ranks and even managed to beat patron with freeze mage a few times. And trust me, even at higher ranks people mess up patron plays.
Well it seems Blizzard in their infinite wisdom have chosen to ignore the fact that patron is well beyond the power levels of every other deck. In fact I would argue it is nothing more then the love child of otk hunter and miracle rogue. And yet those two concepts were destroyed with fire.
So what needs to be done about this? What changes do they need to make.
Some say change battle rage, some say change warsong commander, and some say change the stats on patrons. What are your thoughts?
Its never going to happen because alone its a normal card. The fact that 1 class can make decent use of it over the others doesn't flag it for being nerfed. They also won't nerf a card based on another card. The only other time i've ever seen that happen is with UTH & Buzzard and that can be considered a huge failure @ Blizzard. I find most matches against Patron are winnable if you know its coming, and you KNOW its coming pretty early.
On T7 you are going to take 18 damage and you need to deal with that if you've got no taunts.
Its a lot worse if you've put a minion with 2 or less attack on the board like a noob or overextended yourself.
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pod wasnt metawarping, but its a very very pinpoint tool box. it fetches answers in a way no other deck can at the time if i remember.
also its more of a preventive measure than anything else i think for further abuse. when it comes to ban, theres preventative ban and must bans, i think pod falls in a categories as preventative bans unlike jace and skullclamp.
Never said it wasn't the strongest deck. As a matter of fact it obviously is. But that wasn't what I was addressing in my post.
you start after zendikar didnt you?
Rank 20 player confirmed
Legend Rogue, druid when lazy
The grim patron nerf is inevitable, so it's pointless that Blizzard is waiting to see how the meta changes until after TGT is released. It's still going to be a top tier deck, and it's still going to annoy everyone with frequent OTKs. The fact that it's taken this long has really turned me off from this game.
Don't worry we can just wait for the Patron to get nerfed 6 months from now, and go back to complaining about the still not nerfed Druid Double Combo.
Patron can definitely afford to run a Defender of Argus if Chillmaw is ever a thing, which i doubt.
As a Magic player, I have to say that today's problem in Modern is the excess of bans. If the nerf makes the decks still playable, the everything will be fine.. but what they did to Miracles was a hard-ban. The deck 'became' Oil Rogue, that's another deck! some cards are core to both decks, but the strategy is alltogether different, making it worst, competitive enough to say the least. Can Patron decks work without charging Berserkers, Warsong, Rage or Patron itself? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe a whole new deck emerges from a nerf to some cards and some new others beeing released.
Patron is a very beatable deck but it when you look at it and other decks from the past that were super popular, that then got nerfed you will see some pretty startling comparisons.
Miracle rogue had the god like draw engine made pulling burst combos and just shred everything easy.
Original sunshine hunter was able to draw the answers needed to win.
OTK hunter extremely difficult to prevent the combo due to massive card draw engine.
Giant warrior if you didnt burst 15 you lost.
original freeze mage players could not play around or counter the freeze mechanic.
Since patron shares traits with all of these decks in terms of why they got nerfed then one has to ask why was this not taken care off. 2 of the most offending cards in that deck are the battle rage and the warsong commander. Both were nerfed down from even more ungodly states. And at the time those nerfs needed to happen. And in the case of Giant warrior that deck was not around all that long before it got nerfed. So to say there has not been enough time to look at the data is a little short sighted.
The two things blizzard has been limiting or keeping an eye on in this game is mass card draws(more then 3 a turn) and gameplay that punish you for playing correctly. In most well played patron matches having a board states equals your own death. The fact that you can play a control warrior have 60 life with armor and lose in 1 turn with out the aid of say alexstraza is a little overwhelming. Fact that the deck is an auto pick in every tournament says a lot of its power.
yeah exactly like how people stopped using undertaker when GvG came out ... ... ... oh wait, undertaker was used until the day he was nerfed and the expansion just made him better :).
This just made my night
offering incentives to play decks that beat patron would be an elegant way to nerf it...
I highly doubt they would nerf Patron right before TGT. It's not like Gagetzan Auctioneer which was getting a massive buff from the Spare Parts.
Give it a week or two. If Blizzard's reason for nerfing Leeroy Jenkins was honest and legitimate they HAVE to nerf Patron. You can literally replace the words in their reasoning for nerfing Leeroy with Patron cards and it fits identically.
Blizzard probobly hopes either a slower more control-based game is worse for Patron or something they've added stops it.
So everyone has to play Dragon decks and specifically draw 1 card out of 30 in their decks; and keep that 6 HP minion alive the entire game to stop Patron?
Either you're being sarcastic or you're a Patron player if you think that is reasonable.
Current Deck -http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/240420-army-paladin - Token Paladin
and those that defend the deck are the ones using it...So your argument is well moot.
Yep
i hate all combo/burst decks. I wish they would increase the life total to like 75 or something to reduce the cheese combos.
I just posted this in another thread, but I'll repost here, because I see the same bogus statistic. I played 5 games yesterday. 3 of them were against patron warrior. I was one-shotted down from above 25 health in all three games against the patron warrior. It happens way more often than once in 20 games if you are playing a control deck. OTKs are only rare for those playing aggressive decks or playing at lower ranks where the patron player doesn't know what he's doing.
Does no one here know that Handlocks exist? I mean it eats Patron for breakfast, too easy.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
Then why do you think OTKs are so rare?
Its never going to happen because alone its a normal card. The fact that 1 class can make decent use of it over the others doesn't flag it for being nerfed. They also won't nerf a card based on another card. The only other time i've ever seen that happen is with UTH & Buzzard and that can be considered a huge failure @ Blizzard. I find most matches against Patron are winnable if you know its coming, and you KNOW its coming pretty early.
On T7 you are going to take 18 damage and you need to deal with that if you've got no taunts.
Its a lot worse if you've put a minion with 2 or less attack on the board like a noob or overextended yourself.