Hearthpwn

Mistcaller is actually amazing if you can play him in the mid game. Then your late game will be astonishingly strong.

Quote from alexwolf1991 jump

How can you rate Powershot a 2? This is a must in most midrange and control Hunter decks, and an amazing card in general. 

I mostly agree with your post and predict the same archetypes, maybe miss some Dragon-decks and some that barely will appear like CTRL Hunt. But I completely disagree that Powershot is ladder-card, if it will be so good Hunt already would use some similiar ctrl-cards that he have - but he no need it at all! It's horrible to spend important turn 3 for not a tempo-burst but for situational pseudo-AOE. If so - even Explosive Trap better in many ways (it worse only when opponent don't need to pop it). If CTRL Hunt will be a thing that better Face/Midrange (at least not worse) - then probably, and still not sure that this card will find some place even in CTRL deck (we have a good example - Demonfire).

Quote from KonstantOut jump

Quote from qtstorm jump

Pretty bad list, Argent Horserider is better than 90% of the cards released and you gave it 1/10.

Well, it's super idea to play turn3 2/1- minion. Hope I often will met you in ladder with your OP-decks with this cards that 'better than 90% of the cards'! If it were as you say whole ladder will be full of Argent Commanders I guess.

I guess argent commander would be a 1/10 and 3/10 in arena then? Lmao nice logic there.

Konstant this is a really good list and I actually agree with most of these, but I wanted to touch on a few cards that I would rate significantly differently than yours.  

For the Druid cards I wanted to start off with Knight of the Wild.  I would have rated this card much higher for constructed.  If beast Druid becomes a thing, this card will be really good for swing turns because it will probably be fairly easy to get this down to 5 or 4 mana in a reasonable amount of time.  The second card is Mulch.  In constructed I feel like this card is very strong.  The random minion that you give the opponent that they then have to spend mana on is going to almost always be weaker than what you use this on because constructed decks have so much synergy.  There will be nightmare scenarios, but they still have to spend the mana on the card.  It's not like unstable portal where you can coin it out and then on turn 2 play the Belcher you got off it.  I do agree with both these cards ratings that you gave them for arena, but I would give a constructed rating of 6 for Knight of the Wild and 8 for Mulch.

For Hunter cards I just wanted to mention Lock and Load.  I don't disagree with your rating, but I give the chance of miracle hunter appearing a bit higher than you do.  The only other card I wanted to talk about is Ball of Spiders.  I agree with your constricted rating completely, but with arena I would rate it far higher.  In area I would give this card a 5/10 because it is card draw and hunter in area can struggle with that.  It is definitely very slow, but in a world where by turn 6 you rarely have more than 2-3 cards in your hand as Hunter, the card draw can win you the game, especially since beats are overall pretty good cards.  This is in the rare slot, so it has a lot of competition, but I think it could be very strong if played at the right time.

The only Mage card I wanted to talk about is Arcane Blast.  I think this should be rated a lot lower in constructed.  If this card could hit the face it would easily 15/10 because this card and Malygos are best friends, but because it can only hit minions it is basically a slightly worse version of Holy Smite.  Since Mages already have a lot of removal, including ping, I just don't see this being played especially since usually the only spellpower you see in decks comes from Azure Drake and by turn 6 when you could play both card, you likely don't need removal.  That being said, it could happen and I would rate this card a 4/10.

Murloc Knight is an interesting card.  People are definitely going to try Murloc Paladin and although Shaman has a few more options for that type of deck, I could really see this working.  I would go up to 4/10 for this card because I think this is going to see some play and I think Murloc-adin will be a thing.

Flash Heal is probably one of the cards I disagree with you the most on.  I would give this card an 8/10.  This solves the Priest problem of not being able to heal quickly enough against some aggro decks, but also can be used as burn with Auchani and I think once Priest decks get refined enough after a few weeks, we will see this in almost every Priest deck.

With Rogue I will, as others have, bring up Beneath the Grounds.  I think this card is really good.  It is a tempo loss, which I am concerned about, but the value is crazy.  Burgle is the same way, but I would only rate is slightly higher than you would.  I give these cards 6/10 and 5/10 because I really think we could see a Control Rogue variant appear.  

For Shaman cards I think you are overvaluing Thunder Bluff Valiant.  This is definitely a win more card.  If you have a few totems out and manage to get this out and use it, you are already in a pretty good position.  It's a good card, but I just don't think it's as good as you do.  I would give this more like a 5 or 4/10.  People will definitely try to make this work though, I could be very wrong.  

Wrathguard you gave a 9/10 for arena which seems about right to me, but a 6/10 in constructed.  In constructed this is card is a 9/10 if you get it out early.  Yes, you take more damage, but it puts you way ahead on the board, but even in the mid game, let alone late it's a completely dead card because you probably can't risk the health you could lose.  I, for one, can't wait until someone drops this late in the game against my Control Warrior and I get to finally Shield Slam face for 15.  

So again there are really only 1-2 cards per class that I disagree with you on, but overall I think we have very similar ideas on how this is going to play out.  On to the neutrals.  

There are four Legendary cards that I disagree on.  The first is Justicar Trueheart.  I think this card is going to be really good in area where later on the game you are doing a lot of topdecking which make the hero power more important and I would go as high as 6/10 on it.  Bolf Ramshield I think is valued too highly.  It's basically a 6 mana heal for 9 and it doesn't even trade because your opponent can just go face to kill it.  There could be the odd time where your opponent has lethal with a big spell like Pyroblast and this prevents it, but overall I think it's fairly week.  This is one of the more interesting cards, so people will test it for sure.  Gormok the Impaler is definitely overvalued, especially in arena.  In arena it's going to be just a 4 mana 4/4 95% of the time and therefore there are very few legendary I would pick this over.  In constructed I could see this being a little bit better, but if you already have 4 minions on the board at the start of your turn, you are probably about to win anyway.  Finally Nexus-Champion Saraad will be way better in arena than you give it credit for.  I would give this an 8 or 9/10 because it gives you card draw and spells are generally more powerful than minions.  It also has mega-taunt because if it's not dealt with immediately, it will get out of hand.

Rare - Master Jouster, Armored Warhorse, Sabator, Fencing Coach, 

I am going to move to the rares because there are no commons I disagree on and there is only 1 epic that I want to finish up on.  I can't see Master Jouster finding its way into decks because in a world where Sunfury isn't played, this is only a slightly better version and only some of the time. Armored Warhorse I think is a really bad card.  Decks that would want to run charge would rarely, if ever win the Joust making this card bad in decks that would use it and good in decks that wouldn't use it.  Very odd indeed.  Saboteur doesn't seem very useful to me.  Obviously Inspire will be important, and when you would want to use this card is right after they drop a strong Inspire minion so that you can have an extra turn to deal with it before they can get too much value.  That just seems too situational to me especially when the body on this card is below average. Finally Fencing Coach I would rate higher, simply because any deck that contains a powerful Inspire card like Nexus-Champion Saraad or Confessor Paletress will run these to get value from those cards more quickly.  

Finally the only epic card I wanted to discuss was Sideshow Spelleater.  In constructed obviously this is insane against Lord Jaraxxus and Majordomo Executus, but otherwise I can only think of a handful of times that I would want to switch hero powers.  In arena it's kind of the same thing, except that you will see the 2 crazy hero powers even less often.  That being said this card is probably auto-include in any future Adventure Mode decks and so I give it 2/10 for constructed, 0/10 for arena and 10/10 for Adventure!

Nice post man keep up the good vibes and comment like that all the time.

So new deck archetypes? I think TGT will open a lot of new decks, hunters, priests and shamans in a spotlight.

Hunter: Lots of great tools for a more control orientated hunter decks. The legendaries are good. (Well, Dreadscale is, Acidmaw is mediocre.) Also, new midrange beast orientated decks will also rise with the addition of hunters new cards. 

Priest: For priest there are many class and neutral cards which complement the existing archetypes, and open more tempo-ish and midrange options.

Shaman: Can't exactly pinpoint how TGT will affect shaman, but shaman might have many top-tier decks in TGT. Totem Golem itself opens so many options it is hard to comprehend. Midrange? Tempo? Heavy control? I think we will see several variants for all of them, not to forget inspire focused decks.

Warlock: I actually would say warlocks got the short end of the stick. Several very underwhelming cards, and only a few to complement the existing decks. (From class and neutral cards.) Handlock, demon zoo, zoo and demon handlock propably still work, so I don't really see that warlock becomes utterly bad.

Warrior: Interested to see where the taunt and dragon synergies will go. Varian Wrynn himself will most likely change the normal wallet warrior a bit.

Druid: Minor changes for ramp druid, Aviana can become utterly broken in some cases and might invoke new decks itself. Astral Communion is a very funky card and will see play as a really wonky fun decks, no competitive value though. Druids got a lot of beast synergy and it might become semi-viable, but not better than your average ramp druid.

Mage: New tools for all mage decks, we have to see how it will play out. Perhaps a strong inspire deck might arise.

Paladin: Lots and lots of synergy for your recruits. Complements existing midrange which might see some major changes and shift to an inspire orientated archetype. Also some secret synergy which might make it viable.

Rogue: Hard to evaluate yet. If the meta slows up big time, control rogue might become very competitive. Some pirate love also included which seems fun, we just have to wait and see how strong it is.

Quote from Sahgos jump

The Mistcaller may be the most over-budgeted card in TGT.  Shaman decks normally run ~18-22 minions.  By turn 6 you're likely to have 15-18 of these minions still in your hand or deck.  That's on average +15 to +18 attack and health.  It's otherwise a 3-4 cost minion.  Meaning you are paying 2-3 mana for +15 to +18 to attack and health.  Absurd value.  I determined Varian Wrynn should have a 17-18 mana cost but The Mistcaller ought to have 17-20 mana cost.  That means Varian Wrynn is +7-8 overbudget and The Mistcaller is +11-14 over budget.  Crazy value.

Call me when you see shaman player hyped about new legendary

wish this was a trading card game so I could make profits off of everybody who seems to think the mistcaller is "over budget"

you play this guy on turn 6 you play a 4/4 and do literally nothing. turn 7 your 7 drop has +1+1 more than your opponents, lets say. 1 toughness just means a hero power. or more realistically your opponent played emperor and drops a ragnaros turn 7, and potentially blows you out of the game.

also what shaman deck runs 22 creatures?

Quote from qtstorm jump

Quote from KonstantOut jump

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Pretty bad list, Argent Horserider is better than 90% of the cards released and you gave it 1/10.

Well, it's super idea to play turn3 2/1- minion. Hope I often will met you in ladder with your OP-decks with this cards that 'better than 90% of the cards'! If it were as you say whole ladder will be full of Argent Commanders I guess.

I guess argent commander would be a 1/10 and 3/10 in arena then? Lmao nice logic there.

Argent Commander actually 10/10 in arena (maybe it will 9/10 after TGT already), but in ladder near 3/10 in the best case - I saw it last time in ladder proably last year only... Well, let's look at this your 'the best' Argent Horserider more detail. In arena it's like pseudo-tempo card: 3-d drop, we want our 3-d drop trade with 1-4 drops of our opp - with 1-st and half of 2-d he cope really well, sometimes even can trade 1 to 2 (but reeeeeally seldom I guess), with 2-d and elder drops with 3 and more health he already sucks especially if you play against top class (mage, paladin, even druid and rogue) who can even  spend hero power - to finish him (it's tempo loose but can be of course) - and you have no buffs in 95% scenarios in arena in general or in hand at least, so it's will be almost always just 2/1 - no more! And what if you need to play it in late game? It's even worse that Zombie Chew in late or really similiar to it. In ladder some classes have cheap buffs, yes, but if you going to play with buffs I guess it wil be aggro/tempo archetype? And this archetype need effective CHEAP minions. The worst that you can do: make something like 5/1 - 6/1 with divine shield and charge turn4, using 2 cards, so even if it will trade 1 to 2 it will be not overwhelming, and many classes in ladder will cope with it easily due to hero power, and tokens, and weapon, some cheap spells or silence also. If you're going to go face with it - you no need this divine shield really (yes, I know power of Argent Squire with cheap buff, but she cost 2 mana less and still she works really well only for Pally, even Rogues not so well with her...). Wolfrider and Arcane Golem - simply better for aggro. And for Tempo we need normal or higher than normal stats. This card even interesting and maybe my rate 1/10 is too low but it will be no more than 2/10, 3/10 anyway even if think a lot.

the mistcaller is the most overrated card on the set. a card that seems amazing on paper but doesnt work that well in reality. maybe it has some value in totem shaman where many totems just have 0 attack but i dont think its any usefull in anything else. if shaman had some kind of ramping then maybe the mistcaller was better, but it comes on turn 6 it loses you tempo just to buff +1-+1 on everything. i know it SOUNDS strong but you will see that in the real game it isnt really

Quote from Balthier21 jump

the mistcaller is the most overrated card on the set. a card that seems amazing on paper but doesnt work that well in reality. maybe it has some value in totem shaman where many totems just have 0 attack but i dont think its any usefull in anything else. if shaman had some kind of ramping then maybe the mistcaller was better, but it comes on turn 6 it loses you tempo just to buff +1-+1 on everything. i know it SOUNDS strong but you will see that in the real game it isnt really

Yeah its called overload.

Sadly Blizzard developers are so useless that they didnt realize that this one would be a good card to put overload on,you know ,lower cost and some overload so you can play it early and get the value faster,same with Charged Hammer.

They love to throw that shitty overload on everything and they missed the 2 most obvious cards that would benefit from it.

Quote from Steuermann jump

Quote from Balthier21 jump

the mistcaller is the most overrated card on the set. a card that seems amazing on paper but doesnt work that well in reality. maybe it has some value in totem shaman where many totems just have 0 attack but i dont think its any usefull in anything else. if shaman had some kind of ramping then maybe the mistcaller was better, but it comes on turn 6 it loses you tempo just to buff +1-+1 on everything. i know it SOUNDS strong but you will see that in the real game it isnt really

Maybe you should take a closer look to the card before judging it. Mistcaller would not buff Totem (besides the ones you have in your deck) since it uffs minions that are in your hand or deck. Still, he is probably overpriced by 2, so he is a 4 mana 4/4 with a 2 mana sword of justice thats permanent and cant be destroyed. The downside of not being able to attack with it gets mitigated by the fact that this effect also doesnt clog up your weapons spot. Since it doesnt buff hero power totems and deathrattle spawns, it might be slightly worse, but there should still be enough material to get about 3-4 buffs of, in some cases considerably more. I believe i would play a permanent sword of justice for 2.

thats what i said..... flametongue totem or the other one which draws you cards still have 0 attack, i wasnt talking about the totems from hero power. i just said that in a midrange or control shaman where you will most likely play 1 minion per turn having a 6-5 elemental or a 7-6 elemental cant make the difference to win you the game. a 4/4 on turn 6 is a loss of tempo big time AND the worst part about this card is when you draw it late. no one guarantees you that youre gonna have the mistcaller in your hand by turn 6. if you draw it on turn 10 tell me how is this better than neptulon for example? i wont say the mistcaller is complete garbage but its not something amazing and i saw many people here will craft this as their first legendary. so yeah history repeats itself after troggzor and that 6/5 warrior mech we have another card that SEEMS amazing but in reality it really isnt

Malygos OTK Mage. What makes that viable and what is the OTK?

Quote from rapshade jump

After I saw darnassus aspirant 6/10 7/10 I knew this list would be way off. A lot of pros think this is one of the strongest cards in the set so it should at least be 9/10. Alternatively savage combatant has been stated my many pros as being unplayable competitively so rating it 9/10 makes no sense whatsoever.

Also rating lock and load so low seems pretty unwarranted as it will create a new hunter archetype. Reynad is really excited about the card so it must have some potential and it deserves more than 2/10

 

Also Mage doesn't have an inspire deck yet and that will be a drastically new deck type with coldarra drake etc.

Pro players opinion in pre-rating cards has been proven wrong quite often in the past (might I mention Sludge Belcher or Dr Balance). So basing your opinion on theirs might not be the best idea... :-)

Edited: some marks was changed, mostly not too much + '(tiers #)' for arena was added.

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Good job mate, you have rated the cards very well except one thing which I really disagree with - Beneath the Grounds. Believe me, while it may look decent at best, it is actually a hidden gem which in the proper deck (Mill) may turn into one of the most OP cards - literally! Just imagine running 2 of those! That's frickin 24/24 for 6 and combined with a mill deck the stats are almost guaranteed to work! 

Plus, you may ask now - how is it going to work for Mill when you are adding extra 3 cards to the opponents deck?Well, I got good news for you, it actually doesn't stop the draw since the Ambush card (pretty sure I saw that somewhere) actually draws you a card afterwards as well!

I don't know for you guys but I am having high hopes on this one. I really wish it works just as I am expecting it to because that would be the first Mill deck to be ever viable in Hearthstone (this is something I always wanted and enjoyed - always had some space in my heart for milling :P)

If ambush is burn because of a full hand, no 4/4 minion for you, no  draw for the ennemy, it's like if he had a deck with 31 cards and you wast a mana.

I guess if ambush is burn because of a full hand - next card will burn also, because ambush not a card but just something like 'mine' from Warrior's GVG legendary (so it will be 30 cards in opponent's deck anyway). It's hard to find a space for this card in a mill-rogue deck though... And surely in some theoretical 'CTRL Rogue' it will be just useless.

I guess bashing on your opinion may kinda be bad since as your title claimed which is amateur's thought.

Dreadscale Is actually the lower tier card comparison to Acidmaw. This card can combo unleash the hound to wipe your opponent board rather just own board. Powershot is very good control board card. 2 mana that has potential to deal 6 damage. Bear Trap is pretty underrated card. It's just another trap that make the enemy wonder if it's Explosive Trap or Misdirection. The potential to summon 3/3 is just meh. If the opponent managed to figured out that your trap is only triggered by hitting the face, there are just too many way to play around it. 

In anyway, I think control hunter is pretty good with TGT release.

Quote from Jacks89 jump

I guess bashing on your opinion may kinda be bad since as your title claimed which is amateur's thought.

Dreadscale Is actually the lower tier card comparison to Acidmaw. This card can combo unleash the hound to wipe your opponent board rather just own board. Powershot is very good control board card. 2 mana that has potential to deal 6 damage. Bear Trap is pretty underrated card. It's just another trap that make the enemy wonder if it's Explosive Trap or Misdirection. The potential to summon 3/3 is just meh. If the opponent managed to figured out that your trap is only triggered by hitting the face, there are just too many way to play around it. 

In anyway, I think control hunter is pretty good with TGT release.

10 mana combo for Hunter? 10 MANA, Karl!!! What?... I suppose and Starving Buzzard's returning in this case. Control Hunter will exist -100%, I believe - but as some funny to play deck as eg Aggro Warrior (with Leper Gnomes and Arcanite Reaper).

Quote from KonstantOut jump

Quote from Jacks89 jump

I guess bashing on your opinion may kinda be bad since as your title claimed which is amateur's thought.

Dreadscale Is actually the lower tier card comparison to Acidmaw. This card can combo unleash the hound to wipe your opponent board rather just own board. Powershot is very good control board card. 2 mana that has potential to deal 6 damage. Bear Trap is pretty underrated card. It's just another trap that make the enemy wonder if it's Explosive Trap or Misdirection. The potential to summon 3/3 is just meh. If the opponent managed to figured out that your trap is only triggered by hitting the face, there are just too many way to play around it. 

In anyway, I think control hunter is pretty good with TGT release.

10 mana combo for Hunter? 10 MANA, Karl!!! What?... I suppose and Starving Buzzard's returning in this case. Control Hunter will exist -100%, I believe - but as some funny to play deck as eg Aggro Warrior (with Leper Gnomes and Arcanite Reaper).

You are rating it based on the card value. If you giving 3 mana 4/2 that deal massive aoe for 1 dmg 6/10. I supposed I'm gonna craft golden for this card for the value.

Btw how long have you played HS? Just curious? Cause the there exist Aggro OTK Warrior that combo Raging Worgen. But oh wait. Since you are so good I'm pretty sure you know of such deck. Please forgive my imbecile.