Since I started playing Hearthstone more than a year ago, I have had great faith in Blizzard's ability to release new cards that remain balanced compared to cards that already exist. It is quite obvious though after the release of Ice Rager that this is no longer the case. While some people might consider Magma Rager to be one of the worst cards in the game, it still had it's fun moments where you might pull out a win. With the release of this card whose purpose is specifically to be a better Magma Rager I can't help but feel like blizzard is trying to encourage me to not play magma rager.
It's not getting out of hand... yet. Obviously it's just a slippery slope, but buffing 2 cards that literally - literally - never saw play and releasing them as commons that also will not see play isn't a huge deal.
I think that it is perfectly acceptable to release cards that power creep other cards that are too awful to even consider in any deck. Even the ones that they made to replace Magma Rager and Booty Bay Bodyguard will likely not see play as they are just weak cards in general still.
It hasn't gotten out of hand yet but I think it might just happen if there isn't enogh backlash against this. Don't forget that Blizzard might as well just have buffed these old cards but chose to replace them with new one you have to aquire first.
Also RIP noobs. This could even have made me not play the game if there would have been this blatant power differences in Hearthstone when I started. I won't get friends to play the game now, I guess.
Initially i thought Dr Boom was an oversight, but then again he wasn't really a direct power creep (his battlecry makes him vulnerable to nerubian weblord, so there are instances where war golem is better than Dr Boom).
But right now, those two vanilla cards are DIRECT power creep, a lower costing vanilla with the same stats is strictly better than its counterpart, no question about it.
Power creep is inevitable, but with something as direct as this, i'm curious to know what are Blizzard's intention. Are they gonna power creep staple cards such as Swipe and Frostbolt? Only time will tell.
are you kidding whats with all of the QQ about power creep. Compared to GVG there is far less power creep and far more INNOVATION... so no not out of hand also ben brode stated that they feel like improving cards no one plays is not power creep
To be honest I don't understand why people even care about power creep. Even if it happens...so what? If new sets are not going to be better than old set then why would people buy them...meta is going to be so stale ...new cards are not viable at all....game will probably die off.
After seeing the whole TGT set, I think I like what Blizz is doing. They are slowing introducing new archetype for each class which would in a way minimize the powercreep.
are you kidding whats with all of the QQ about power creep. Compared to GVG there is far less power creep and far more INNOVATION... so no not out of hand also ben brode stated that they feel like improving cards no one plays is not power creep
Can you really blame people for being vocal about wasting new card slots on what could have been a buff in a patch, especially for free cards that would have no dust or crafting problems. GvG Power creep was never direct power creep, it was power creep in the way of more beneficially allocated stats and abilities, however none were direct upgrades in all facets or comparisons. Piloted Shredder is stickier and on average gets more value than a yeti, but it still dies to a lightning bolt or axe and thus while consistently better for a removal or trading meta game, the yeti is still more survivable, if enough bad 2 drops came out and control decks were the meta the yeti might even trump the shredder.
What design improvement though, you took a card that exists and cloned it but made it simply better without any situation comparison. While many of the cards released were cool in concept, many were disappointing or seamed like the balance department were really trying odd ideas this expansion. However direct upgrades really question the future cards. If this is the future of card buffing I wonder why they bother to even keep the old cards in the game, or at the least buff the old cards in addition and make them swappable cards for flavor but function the same, just as you do with your hero jaina and mediev.
No personal grievances or offence to you sir/maam but I can't help but disagree with you. Some of the innovations this set were pretty big but many improvements such as deathrattle improvements and random produced cards from GvG were improvements at the time too. I really hope blizzard doesn't take this as a norm though, it not only hurts constructed though random card generation effects and arena through a watered down card pool but it devalues the current cards available to players. And yes while buffing cards that are weak are a good idea, flat out reprinting them as new cards while good in intention is still power creep, they are still potentially playable and unique cards even if weak. In older physical card games, you couldn't edit the cards you already printed so it made sense reprinting them, however the advantage of the digital medium these cards take advantage of would make it very easy to simple edit older cards. No point in worrying about reactions or meta shifting on editing old cards, changing them is effectively the same on the meta game as releasing the new improved versions with the exception of not needing to obtain the new cards.
The lesson based argument doesn't really hold up either, there's no experience required or real discussion or comparison, a 5/2 > a 5/1 in almost any scenario period. We don't have to rage at blizzard but telling them this type of ordeal is not OK would help in the future to make them think twice about strait up power creep.
Yes the power creep is real but it's not game crippling yet, let's hope Blizzard learns from the back lash and decides to design mostly newer card stat lines and themes and perhaps for once ever, buff a bad card. Thematically I love magma rager and booty bay and the new cards wouldn't feel the same from a subjective point of view either.
These threads are so dumb. A 5-4 with taunt that is never used becoming 1 less mana is still never going to be used. A 5-1 that is joked about as one of the worst cards in the game being a 5-2 is still horrible and will still never be a thing.
How in all the world is that indicative of dangerous power creep?! It is on two meaningless cards. Calm down.
wouldn't surprise me if in 2-3 full expansions we actually do start to see power creep. kibler mentioned this on his stream, that the way hearthstone works it will happen. basically compared 2 mana hearthstone card to a 2 mana magic card. 2 mana hearthstone cards is just that, 2 mana. has no other requirement to play it other than being a class card. while in magic a 2 cost card can 2, or 1G or GG or RG or UB etc etc etc. the huge design flaw in hearthstone will bite it in the butt sooner or later.
...With the release of this card [Ice Rager] whose purpose is specifically to be a better Magma Rager I can't help but feel like blizzard is trying to encourage me to not play magma rager.
Thoughts?
Well no shit you're not suppose to play Magma Rager... I'll save you a bunch of time and just go ahead and tell you - you also shouldn't play Ice Rager either, it actually sucks too. So now you don't have to wait until Blizzard releases a 3 cost 5/3 to learn that one too =)
Since I started playing Hearthstone more than a year ago, I have had great faith in Blizzard's ability to release new cards that remain balanced compared to cards that already exist. It is quite obvious though after the release of Ice Rager that this is no longer the case. While some people might consider Magma Rager to be one of the worst cards in the game, it still had it's fun moments where you might pull out a win. With the release of this card whose purpose is specifically to be a better Magma Rager I can't help but feel like blizzard is trying to encourage me to not play magma rager.
Thoughts?
Let's get salty!
It's not getting out of hand... yet. Obviously it's just a slippery slope, but buffing 2 cards that literally - literally - never saw play and releasing them as commons that also will not see play isn't a huge deal.
Have a great deck that's really, really cheap? Help the new players out
Stuff like that is supposed to happen. Just accept it.
Seriously? A completely unplayable new card is going to convince you to not play a completely unplayable old card?
I think that it is perfectly acceptable to release cards that power creep other cards that are too awful to even consider in any deck. Even the ones that they made to replace Magma Rager and Booty Bay Bodyguard will likely not see play as they are just weak cards in general still.
yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Rarity different so it can't really be considered a power creep
It hasn't gotten out of hand yet but I think it might just happen if there isn't enogh backlash against this. Don't forget that Blizzard might as well just have buffed these old cards but chose to replace them with new one you have to aquire first.
Also RIP noobs. This could even have made me not play the game if there would have been this blatant power differences in Hearthstone when I started. I won't get friends to play the game now, I guess.
Let's get salty!
I laughed a lot, this was great.
I'm assuming you're trolling, cause surely you can't be serious.
"Live Free or Die Hard"
Ice Rager was created just for the funsies, blizzard like to bully magma rager like they did with the Moonfire artwork
A 5/1 is now a 5/2.....Shit is out of hand people. /Sarcasm
Initially i thought Dr Boom was an oversight, but then again he wasn't really a direct power creep (his battlecry makes him vulnerable to nerubian weblord, so there are instances where war golem is better than Dr Boom).
But right now, those two vanilla cards are DIRECT power creep, a lower costing vanilla with the same stats is strictly better than its counterpart, no question about it.
Power creep is inevitable, but with something as direct as this, i'm curious to know what are Blizzard's intention. Are they gonna power creep staple cards such as Swipe and Frostbolt? Only time will tell.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
What if this isn't powercreep, but one big setup for what is yet to come?
Like... when you play Magma Rager, Ice Rager, Wind Rager, Earth Rager and Love Rager you summon... Captain Rager??!!
are you kidding whats with all of the QQ about power creep. Compared to GVG there is far less power creep and far more INNOVATION... so no not out of hand also ben brode stated that they feel like improving cards no one plays is not power creep
Arena > all
To be honest I don't understand why people even care about power creep. Even if it happens...so what? If new sets are not going to be better than old set then why would people buy them...meta is going to be so stale ...new cards are not viable at all....game will probably die off.
After seeing the whole TGT set, I think I like what Blizz is doing. They are slowing introducing new archetype for each class which would in a way minimize the powercreep.
Can you really blame people for being vocal about wasting new card slots on what could have been a buff in a patch, especially for free cards that would have no dust or crafting problems. GvG Power creep was never direct power creep, it was power creep in the way of more beneficially allocated stats and abilities, however none were direct upgrades in all facets or comparisons. Piloted Shredder is stickier and on average gets more value than a yeti, but it still dies to a lightning bolt or axe and thus while consistently better for a removal or trading meta game, the yeti is still more survivable, if enough bad 2 drops came out and control decks were the meta the yeti might even trump the shredder.
What design improvement though, you took a card that exists and cloned it but made it simply better without any situation comparison. While many of the cards released were cool in concept, many were disappointing or seamed like the balance department were really trying odd ideas this expansion. However direct upgrades really question the future cards. If this is the future of card buffing I wonder why they bother to even keep the old cards in the game, or at the least buff the old cards in addition and make them swappable cards for flavor but function the same, just as you do with your hero jaina and mediev.
No personal grievances or offence to you sir/maam but I can't help but disagree with you. Some of the innovations this set were pretty big but many improvements such as deathrattle improvements and random produced cards from GvG were improvements at the time too. I really hope blizzard doesn't take this as a norm though, it not only hurts constructed though random card generation effects and arena through a watered down card pool but it devalues the current cards available to players. And yes while buffing cards that are weak are a good idea, flat out reprinting them as new cards while good in intention is still power creep, they are still potentially playable and unique cards even if weak. In older physical card games, you couldn't edit the cards you already printed so it made sense reprinting them, however the advantage of the digital medium these cards take advantage of would make it very easy to simple edit older cards. No point in worrying about reactions or meta shifting on editing old cards, changing them is effectively the same on the meta game as releasing the new improved versions with the exception of not needing to obtain the new cards.
The lesson based argument doesn't really hold up either, there's no experience required or real discussion or comparison, a 5/2 > a 5/1 in almost any scenario period. We don't have to rage at blizzard but telling them this type of ordeal is not OK would help in the future to make them think twice about strait up power creep.
Yes the power creep is real but it's not game crippling yet, let's hope Blizzard learns from the back lash and decides to design mostly newer card stat lines and themes and perhaps for once ever, buff a bad card. Thematically I love magma rager and booty bay and the new cards wouldn't feel the same from a subjective point of view either.
VS
A 3 mana 5/1 is absolutely unplayable.
A 3 mana 5/2 is still pretty bad.
If power creep is happening, it's happening really slowly.
Hearthstone...I play that.
Music...I make that.
Youtube...I have that.
https://www.youtube.com/user/FreeloaderMC
These threads are so dumb. A 5-4 with taunt that is never used becoming 1 less mana is still never going to be used. A 5-1 that is joked about as one of the worst cards in the game being a 5-2 is still horrible and will still never be a thing.
How in all the world is that indicative of dangerous power creep?! It is on two meaningless cards. Calm down.
wouldn't surprise me if in 2-3 full expansions we actually do start to see power creep. kibler mentioned this on his stream, that the way hearthstone works it will happen. basically compared 2 mana hearthstone card to a 2 mana magic card. 2 mana hearthstone cards is just that, 2 mana. has no other requirement to play it other than being a class card. while in magic a 2 cost card can 2, or 1G or GG or RG or UB etc etc etc. the huge design flaw in hearthstone will bite it in the butt sooner or later.
Well no shit you're not suppose to play Magma Rager... I'll save you a bunch of time and just go ahead and tell you - you also shouldn't play Ice Rager either, it actually sucks too. So now you don't have to wait until Blizzard releases a 3 cost 5/3 to learn that one too =)
/thread
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