I'm sure at this point that everyone that plays Hearthstone Ranked falls into one of two categories: those that play Patron Warrior and those that truly despise how badly it has overtaken the meta. Sure there are a few of you out there that don't hate it, but if you don't play it the majority of you probably despise it as much as I do. The deck needs no board presence, and the entire deck is "draw cards, play mindless combo, gg."
However this is not going to be a salt rant. What I'm wondering is what point it is decided that a card needs a nerf? Undertaker took over the meta and was played in every class, so that made sense and it was dealt with quickly. Gadgetzan Auctioneer was only OP in one deck, but that deck also had the same problem that Patron Warrior has, where it just has to draw cards and deal with early threats, survive to combo turn, and then kill out of the blue in 1 or 2 turns. The same exact problem with the current deck, and you even have to sit there and wait for 10 minutes like you did with Miracle Rogue.
So when is it time for Blizzard to actually step in and deal with this? I am trying not to sound too salty (even though that deck fills me with indescribable rage), I am just wondering if anyone has actual insight as to when they officially make these kinds of decisions. The deck is just as prevalent and has almost the exact same kinds of problems that caused Miracle Rogue to receive 2 nerfs to key cards. When is enough enough?
I actually haven't played against it much lately. I played against it once today, but I won. There are plenty of ways to counter it. And I have actually seen that Paladin aggro deck more than any other archetype. It can be cheap sometimes (Dual Frothing), but it takes a lot of set up to get there. There is also a new set coming out that is going to change things up. I have been as mad as you are at one point, but I changed my strategy and was able to start picking up wins against that deck. I guess what I am saying is, there is always going to be a deck that is the deck to beat and everyone is going to hate it. Right before BRM, Face Hunter was in the exact same position as Patron Warrior. Dominant and shunned. So if they nerf patron warrior, there will just be another deck to hate.
There will always be a hated deck, but there were easy counters to Face Hunter that were actually good against other decks. Patron has the same problems that caused a very infamous deck to receive 2 simultaneous nerfs, yet no changes yet.
I've only played against 2 patron warriors going from rank 16 to rank 8 so it has really died down a lot. But anyway, you mentioned that auctioneer got nerfed, and it is important to note that the auctioneer nerf had nothing to do with miracle rogue and was actually nerfed to make way for the spare parts. I doubt they will nerf the deck honestly, it is not on the same level as miracle rogue in my opinion.
Also it is very unlikely that they will nerf anything with the set incoming, they will likely wait for the meta to settle down after the set is released to see if there is still a problem. Blizzard is slowly going more and more against nerfing cards because it angers players just as much, if not more, then it makes players happy.
As much as I hate patron having just so many win conditions and tons of things to worry about (can't play minions under 3 attack, can't play too many minions because of frothing but can't play too few because you're allowing them to build combo) calling the combo mindless is a little silly. The deck has so many options and so many calculations that playing it properly is extremely difficult. There are entire compilations of pros misplaying patron.
It can be extremely frustrating trying to play around all their win conditions only to lose to a crazy combo off an empty board though. I'd love to see a slight commander change but patron really isn't as easy as it seems. I'm a multiple time legend player with a variety of decks and I struggled to pilot patron mightily.
Yeah, but the reason they nerfed Leeroy is because he worked and dominated in so many different crazy combo archetypes and Blizzard said they nerfed Gadgetzan because of the potential synergy with spare parts. Maybe they were blowin' smoke, but Miracle existed for a long time without nerfs.
Once an archetype reaches a 78.3% win rate within the last 4 months of the fiscal financial year, blizzard will hold a development meeting to assess the situation. After that they will present their findings to the Steering Committee and the SC has 2 weeks to decide on the appropriate course of action. A nerf is decided once it receives a 3/5 majority vote in the Steering Committee. Finally, the decision is handed over to Ben Brode to either adhere to it and implement it by pushing The Red Button, or he can veto it by continue to eat Cheetos sprinkled with salt harvested from the tears of salty players.
Once an archetype reaches a 78.3% win rate within the last 4 months of the fiscal financial year, blizzard will hold a development meeting to assess the situation. After that they will present their findings to the Steering Committee and the SC has 2 weeks to decide on the appropriate course of action. A nerf is decided once it receives a 3/5 majority vote in the Steering Committee. Finally, the decision is handed over to Ben Brode to either adhere to it and implement it by pushing The Red Button, or he can veto it by continue to eat Cheetos sprinkled with salt harvested from the tears of salty players.
I started to play patron warrior 3 days ago, as much as it is a strong deck, it really needs skill and calculation in order to succeed! When i play my combo druid it is really easy to know when i have lethal to finish my opponent but in patron you have to be more carefull, so a lot of times the rope was burning and i was yet to descide what i wanted to do! But if you play it a lot and learn how to do it well, you can easily hit the Legend with it!
I understand that Patron takes some calculations. However 90% of the time you don't even have to do the calculations, and it's not like they are difficult. Can you do addition? Congrats, you can do Patron Warrior math. I'm not arguing that it is the easiest deck to play. The problem is how good it is. If anyone here has a background in Super Smash Bros. Melee, Fox is the hardest character to play but no one is denying he is a tier above the entire rest of the cast of the game. Difficulty does not mean non-problematic.
Sjow(a streamer) lost to patron yesterday at 28 health, with sludge belcher and two other minions on board on turn 8. Warrior got 36 damage on one turn without weapon. How is that balanced? Even freeze mage takes 2 turns. No other deck can otk like that consistently.
Sjow(a streamer) lost to patron yesterday at 28 health, with sludge belcher and two other minions on board on turn 8. Warrior got 36 damage on one turn without weapon. How is that balanced? Even freeze mage takes 2 turns. No other deck can otk like that consistently.
Exactly. All the other combo decks need a set up that you can see coming. If it's turn 8 and Patron has like 7 cards in hand and no minion on board, YOU STILL MIGHT BE DEAD. And it's not uncommon for this to happen either. Nor is it difficult to set up. I hate that deck and what it's done to this game, Face Hunter is hard-countered by Control Priest. What hard-counters Patron Warrior??
I think some of the factors that are keeping the deck from getting nerfed are the fact that it has more counters than a deck like miracle rogue had, and also most higher tier players do not believe that the deck is broken or in need of a nerf. Miracle rogue dominated season after season after season without a nerf, it wasn't until handlock started to use leeroy for their 20 dmg combo that Blizzard decided they needed to nerf leeroy, and auctioneer wasn't nerfed until just before GVG to make way for the spare parts. If those two things never happened then Miracle rogue may have never been nerfed.
Sjow(a streamer) lost to patron yesterday at 28 health, with sludge belcher and two other minions on board on turn 8. Warrior got 36 damage on one turn without weapon. How is that balanced? Even freeze mage takes 2 turns. No other deck can otk like that consistently.
Exactly. All the other combo decks need a set up that you can see coming. If it's turn 8 and Patron has like 7 cards in hand and no minion on board, YOU STILL MIGHT BE DEAD. And it's not uncommon for this to happen either. Nor is it difficult to set up. I hate that deck and what it's done to this game, Face Hunter is hard-countered by Control Priest. What hard-counters Patron Warrior??
Handlock, but it doesn't stop Patron for beign a terrible cancer for this game.
First, I believe OTK is defined as no prior setup - which includes Thaurissan,
If you want to include thaurissan then does freeze mage take 2 turns? If Malygos, 2x Frost bolt and 2x ice lance are hit by a single Thaurissan they can deal 34 in a single turn. A duplicated Thaurissan can create much more.
It may just be addition but to get the most damage from your patrons/frothings is significantly more complicated. Only having 90s in a turn to do that is even harder.
Sjow(a streamer) lost to patron yesterday at 28 health, with sludge belcher and two other minions on board on turn 8. Warrior got 36 damage on one turn without weapon. How is that balanced? Even freeze mage takes 2 turns. No other deck can otk like that consistently.
Exactly. All the other combo decks need a set up that you can see coming. If it's turn 8 and Patron has like 7 cards in hand and no minion on board, YOU STILL MIGHT BE DEAD. And it's not uncommon for this to happen either. Nor is it difficult to set up. I hate that deck and what it's done to this game, Face Hunter is hard-countered by Control Priest. What hard-counters Patron Warrior??
I know for sure that Patron has bad matchups against Control Warrior, Handlock, and Ramp Druid.
Sjow(a streamer) lost to patron yesterday at 28 health, with sludge belcher and two other minions on board on turn 8. Warrior got 36 damage on one turn without weapon. How is that balanced? Even freeze mage takes 2 turns. No other deck can otk like that consistently.
Exactly. All the other combo decks need a set up that you can see coming. If it's turn 8 and Patron has like 7 cards in hand and no minion on board, YOU STILL MIGHT BE DEAD. And it's not uncommon for this to happen either. Nor is it difficult to set up. I hate that deck and what it's done to this game, Face Hunter is hard-countered by Control Priest. What hard-counters Patron Warrior??
Handlock, but it doesn't stop Patron for beign a terrible cancer for this game.
Too bad Handlock is hard-countered by the ugly amount of aggro in this meta. I haven't even played against Handlock in almost a month, and I play on ladder at least to 30 wins a day for the gold.
Sjow(a streamer) lost to patron yesterday at 28 health, with sludge belcher and two other minions on board on turn 8. Warrior got 36 damage on one turn without weapon. How is that balanced? Even freeze mage takes 2 turns. No other deck can otk like that consistently.
Exactly. All the other combo decks need a set up that you can see coming. If it's turn 8 and Patron has like 7 cards in hand and no minion on board, YOU STILL MIGHT BE DEAD. And it's not uncommon for this to happen either. Nor is it difficult to set up. I hate that deck and what it's done to this game, Face Hunter is hard-countered by Control Priest. What hard-counters Patron Warrior??
I know for sure that Patron has bad matchups against Control Warrior, Handlock, and Ramp Druid.
Patron poops on Ramp Druid unless Druid gets a super fast start. If they miss the Wild Growth it may as well be game.
Too bad Handlock is hard-countered by the ugly amount of aggro in this meta. I haven't even played against Handlock in almost a month, and I play on ladder at least to 30 wins a day for the gold.
Just to get an idea of where on the ladder we are talking about, what rank are you? Counting this season and last season i played against twice as many handlocks as I played against patrons. To be fair, I didn't see a whole lot of face hunter either.
Also, I can assure you that patron struggles against ramp druid. When I played ramp druid the season before last I had like an 80% winrate against patron.
I'm sure at this point that everyone that plays Hearthstone Ranked falls into one of two categories: those that play Patron Warrior and those that truly despise how badly it has overtaken the meta. Sure there are a few of you out there that don't hate it, but if you don't play it the majority of you probably despise it as much as I do. The deck needs no board presence, and the entire deck is "draw cards, play mindless combo, gg."
However this is not going to be a salt rant. What I'm wondering is what point it is decided that a card needs a nerf? Undertaker took over the meta and was played in every class, so that made sense and it was dealt with quickly. Gadgetzan Auctioneer was only OP in one deck, but that deck also had the same problem that Patron Warrior has, where it just has to draw cards and deal with early threats, survive to combo turn, and then kill out of the blue in 1 or 2 turns. The same exact problem with the current deck, and you even have to sit there and wait for 10 minutes like you did with Miracle Rogue.
So when is it time for Blizzard to actually step in and deal with this? I am trying not to sound too salty (even though that deck fills me with indescribable rage), I am just wondering if anyone has actual insight as to when they officially make these kinds of decisions. The deck is just as prevalent and has almost the exact same kinds of problems that caused Miracle Rogue to receive 2 nerfs to key cards. When is enough enough?
Greetings.
I actually haven't played against it much lately. I played against it once today, but I won. There are plenty of ways to counter it. And I have actually seen that Paladin aggro deck more than any other archetype. It can be cheap sometimes (Dual Frothing), but it takes a lot of set up to get there. There is also a new set coming out that is going to change things up. I have been as mad as you are at one point, but I changed my strategy and was able to start picking up wins against that deck. I guess what I am saying is, there is always going to be a deck that is the deck to beat and everyone is going to hate it. Right before BRM, Face Hunter was in the exact same position as Patron Warrior. Dominant and shunned. So if they nerf patron warrior, there will just be another deck to hate.
There will always be a hated deck, but there were easy counters to Face Hunter that were actually good against other decks. Patron has the same problems that caused a very infamous deck to receive 2 simultaneous nerfs, yet no changes yet.
Greetings.
I've only played against 2 patron warriors going from rank 16 to rank 8 so it has really died down a lot. But anyway, you mentioned that auctioneer got nerfed, and it is important to note that the auctioneer nerf had nothing to do with miracle rogue and was actually nerfed to make way for the spare parts. I doubt they will nerf the deck honestly, it is not on the same level as miracle rogue in my opinion.
Also it is very unlikely that they will nerf anything with the set incoming, they will likely wait for the meta to settle down after the set is released to see if there is still a problem. Blizzard is slowly going more and more against nerfing cards because it angers players just as much, if not more, then it makes players happy.
As much as I hate patron having just so many win conditions and tons of things to worry about (can't play minions under 3 attack, can't play too many minions because of frothing but can't play too few because you're allowing them to build combo) calling the combo mindless is a little silly. The deck has so many options and so many calculations that playing it properly is extremely difficult. There are entire compilations of pros misplaying patron.
It can be extremely frustrating trying to play around all their win conditions only to lose to a crazy combo off an empty board though. I'd love to see a slight commander change but patron really isn't as easy as it seems. I'm a multiple time legend player with a variety of decks and I struggled to pilot patron mightily.
Yeah, but the reason they nerfed Leeroy is because he worked and dominated in so many different crazy combo archetypes and Blizzard said they nerfed Gadgetzan because of the potential synergy with spare parts. Maybe they were blowin' smoke, but Miracle existed for a long time without nerfs.
Once an archetype reaches a 78.3% win rate within the last 4 months of the fiscal financial year, blizzard will hold a development meeting to assess the situation. After that they will present their findings to the Steering Committee and the SC has 2 weeks to decide on the appropriate course of action. A nerf is decided once it receives a 3/5 majority vote in the Steering Committee. Finally, the decision is handed over to Ben Brode to either adhere to it and implement it by pushing The Red Button, or he can veto it by continue to eat Cheetos sprinkled with salt harvested from the tears of salty players.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
I still hate playing against hunter more than patron warrior.
k
Greetings.
I started to play patron warrior 3 days ago, as much as it is a strong deck, it really needs skill and calculation in order to succeed! When i play my combo druid it is really easy to know when i have lethal to finish my opponent but in patron you have to be more carefull, so a lot of times the rope was burning and i was yet to descide what i wanted to do! But if you play it a lot and learn how to do it well, you can easily hit the Legend with it!
The Light Shall Burn You!
I understand that Patron takes some calculations. However 90% of the time you don't even have to do the calculations, and it's not like they are difficult. Can you do addition? Congrats, you can do Patron Warrior math. I'm not arguing that it is the easiest deck to play. The problem is how good it is. If anyone here has a background in Super Smash Bros. Melee, Fox is the hardest character to play but no one is denying he is a tier above the entire rest of the cast of the game. Difficulty does not mean non-problematic.
Greetings.
Sjow(a streamer) lost to patron yesterday at 28 health, with sludge belcher and two other minions on board on turn 8. Warrior got 36 damage on one turn without weapon. How is that balanced? Even freeze mage takes 2 turns. No other deck can otk like that consistently.
Exactly. All the other combo decks need a set up that you can see coming. If it's turn 8 and Patron has like 7 cards in hand and no minion on board, YOU STILL MIGHT BE DEAD. And it's not uncommon for this to happen either. Nor is it difficult to set up. I hate that deck and what it's done to this game, Face Hunter is hard-countered by Control Priest. What hard-counters Patron Warrior??
Greetings.
I think some of the factors that are keeping the deck from getting nerfed are the fact that it has more counters than a deck like miracle rogue had, and also most higher tier players do not believe that the deck is broken or in need of a nerf. Miracle rogue dominated season after season after season without a nerf, it wasn't until handlock started to use leeroy for their 20 dmg combo that Blizzard decided they needed to nerf leeroy, and auctioneer wasn't nerfed until just before GVG to make way for the spare parts. If those two things never happened then Miracle rogue may have never been nerfed.
Handlock, but it doesn't stop Patron for beign a terrible cancer for this game.
First, I believe OTK is defined as no prior setup - which includes Thaurissan,
If you want to include thaurissan then does freeze mage take 2 turns? If Malygos, 2x Frost bolt and 2x ice lance are hit by a single Thaurissan they can deal 34 in a single turn. A duplicated Thaurissan can create much more.
It may just be addition but to get the most damage from your patrons/frothings is significantly more complicated. Only having 90s in a turn to do that is even harder.
Here is a video by Trump in which he spends 40 minutes trying to figure out if he actually had lethal in his previous game - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7glgmM9nuM
I know for sure that Patron has bad matchups against Control Warrior, Handlock, and Ramp Druid.
Too bad Handlock is hard-countered by the ugly amount of aggro in this meta. I haven't even played against Handlock in almost a month, and I play on ladder at least to 30 wins a day for the gold.
Greetings.
Patron poops on Ramp Druid unless Druid gets a super fast start. If they miss the Wild Growth it may as well be game.
Greetings.
Just to get an idea of where on the ladder we are talking about, what rank are you? Counting this season and last season i played against twice as many handlocks as I played against patrons. To be fair, I didn't see a whole lot of face hunter either.
Also, I can assure you that patron struggles against ramp druid. When I played ramp druid the season before last I had like an 80% winrate against patron.