It sure seems like this has been the longest number of updates/time without any cards being nerfed. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I just think it might be contributing to the feeling that nothing has changed much in a long time. When do you think the next nerf is coming and what card(s) do you think might be in the sights?
My hope is that Frothing or Warsong sees some change or else GP goes to a 3/2. I think Dr. Balanced will remain as-is which I'm OK with. I'd like to see some nerf/change happen as soon as the next update.
Grim Patron to a 3/2? lol that would make it literally useless. If we say there's a problem with GP warrior, it would for sure be Frothing and even that requires a pretty ridiculous set of circumstances.
I think that a balanced way to nerf GP warrior would be changing Warsong Commander's effect to "Whenever a minion with 3 health or less is summoned, give it charge." This way, the enemy could have an answer with small minions.
In short, no.. this is NOT the longest time since the last nerf or change. It's not even above average.
He didn't say nerf/change, he meant only nerf and the last card that was nerfed was undertaker which was quite some time ago.
Blizzard doesn't like nerfing anything one month before or after a card change. Miracle was seen as an issue pre-Naxx but blizzard wanted to see how the new cards affected the game before changing it.
About a month afterwards, Leeroy was nerfed. That was on a change they knew they probably had to do about 4 months before they did it thanks to the expansion in between.
And note that since they don't see Dr. Boom as needing a nerf, they didn't really have anything that even needed to be looked at until BRM came around, and they are going to give the game time to make changes to those cards.
And note, they have stated that they noticed how powerful grim patron warrior is. But they won'tn kneejerk a change.
Yes, we are now one month past BRM so a nerf is on the table as a possibility as soon as next update if they wanted to. However, I do believe this has been the longest stretch without any nerfs since the UT one.
It would be amusing if the "nerf" for Warsong ends up being to give charge to only summoned minions, since that was how the card had been bugged forever and only got fixed before BRM :)
the only cards I see as likely to get hit with the nerfbat are Dr. Boom and maybe Goblin Blastmage. possibly small changes to Mechwarper or Unstable Portal, but I think those are unlikely.
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"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear turns into a cat and eats you." - Anonymous Druid
How about some buffs instead blizzard? You can make the game muuuch more interesting for us players by just slightly buffing some cards that no one is using... please take advantage that the game is digital... please?.
Giving a war golem +2/+2 doesn't make it any more viable than before. Meanwhile, other cards would become too strong and end up simply replacing another card for its spot.
What makes old cards worthwhile is new decks created by new cards, such as how patron warrior brought Warsong commander into top tier and Flamewaker caused arcane missiles, of all things, to get into the meta.
So if you want the old cards to be viable, without them simply replacing the current cards, you want new decks and expansions that synergize with them, not simple health/attack tweaks.
It sure seems like this has been the longest number of updates/time without any cards being nerfed. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I just think it might be contributing to the feeling that nothing has changed much in a long time. When do you think the next nerf is coming and what card(s) do you think might be in the sights?
My hope is that Frothing or Warsong sees some change or else GP goes to a 3/2. I think Dr. Balanced will remain as-is which I'm OK with. I'd like to see some nerf/change happen as soon as the next update.
I'd be mortified to see Frothing Berserker nerfed. I have used it consistently in my CW decks for over a year despite the groupthink discarding it and feel quite attached to the card as a result.
Grim Patron itself might require a rethink but I don't find the deck to be stupidly overpowered so I can live with it as it is.
I guess they're getting better at spotting problem cards at the design stage. Going up against miracle rogue as a new player must have pissed so many people off because the deck is so alien, and then you die. I think the game stats for UT must have been ridiculous - if you don't kill it turn 1, you were probably losing 80% of the time, just on that one card on one turn. There's nothing super unfair out there right now imo, and we have the tools to suppress most decks should they become strong and popular.
FTR I'm not actually a big fan of buffing/nerfing anything in HS. Since it is digital and almost every card is created with an overly balanced approach from the start, instead of nerfing the few OP cards it makes more sense to introduce cards that make previous cards more playable for one reason or another as they are. Nerfing always comes back to bite you in the end.
I think it has been good overall that we haven't seen drastic changes or continual nerfs, but I also think it has contributed to the meta feeling so stale for so long before and after BRM. Hopefully there will be only one set of nerfs before July and then we see new cards that actually breathe new life into the game and meta and make it feel fresh.
I guess they're getting better at spotting problem cards at the design stage. Going up against miracle rogue as a new player must have pissed so many people off because the deck is so alien, and then you die. I think the game stats for UT must have been ridiculous - if you don't kill it turn 1, you were probably losing 80% of the time, just on that one card on one turn. There's nothing super unfair out there right now imo, and we have the tools to suppress most decks should they become strong and popular.
the most broken card in the game is mad scientist but if it hasn't been nerfed yet i doubt it will. if any card is gonna get nerfed it's the good doctor , maybe thaurisan in some months. grim patron is fine i doubt it'll be nerfed, it would be silly if it was.
Very unlikely that they will buff old cards. Why bother when you can just release a new card that serves the same purpose, and thereby drive sales?
As for nerfs incoming, I could see a Dr. Boom one coming based on the Nat Pagle precedent of not wanting auto-include neutral minions, but wouldn't be surprised if they just expect us to deal with it.
Probably something coming on the Grim Patron deck front as well. Blizzard has a history of being very careful with abuse of the Charge Mechanic which this deck clearly does. I'd imagine something as simple as increasing Warsong Commander's mana cost and maybe giving her a stat boost or something like they did to Starving Buzzard
How about some buffs instead blizzard? You can make the game muuuch more interesting for us players by just slightly buffing some cards that no one is using... please take advantage that the game is digital... please?.
Giving a war golem +2/+2 doesn't make it any more viable than before. Meanwhile, other cards would become too strong and end up simply replacing another card for its spot.
What makes old cards worthwhile is new decks created by new cards, such as how patron warrior brought Warsong commander into top tier and Flamewaker caused arcane missiles, of all things, to get into the meta.
So if you want the old cards to be viable, without them simply replacing the current cards, you want new decks and expansions that synergize with them, not simple health/attack tweaks.
I dont care about old cards being viable I just say the game would be much more interesting if they took advantage that they can actually buff cards.
Blizzard stated that they don't buff cards because of the mess it can cause. If the buff isn't strong enough, the card ends up about as worthless as before and, thus, wasted everyone's time. Many people think that giving war golem more stats will make it viable. It won't. If they make a strong buff then..well, last time they did a real buff on a card was UTH. They had redesigned it due to it being too powerful (giving all beasts charge) and made it what it does now at 4 mana. It didn't see play so they buffed it to 2 mana.
The result was the Age of Hunter. They had to nerf 2 cards, UTH itself and buzzard, just to rebalance that once change. One buff resulted in half a year of brokenness and the death of starving buzzard. Blizzard isn't going to go back to that willy nilly. And they aren't going to do weekly changes of "Lets buff this card, then next week nerf it again because we messed up." Card games, online or offline, can't handle changes like that "to make things interesting." You shouldn't be changing stats just to shake things up in ANY game anyway.
Also note that, for a long while, people were demanding for a buff to Doomguard. It was deemed as not worth it due to the discard feature. This was, of course, before zoo started using it. Not sure anyone wants a buff on that card now.
and patron diddnt bring warsong commander back.. >_> THE BUFF (or bug fix) on warsong commander made grim patron viable and we finally were able to meet other warrior decks on ladder than wallet warrior.
Warsong wasn't always broken and was actually more powerful than before. You used to be able to charge cards that were base < 3 but buffed itself like Bloodsail. Enrage warrior was played with, but wasn't really viable. Same for Frothing. The bug fix was going to happen anyway, but wouldn't have made warsong viable without Grim. The Grim was key to making those cards viable. Same for Imp Gang Boss/Mal'Ganis and Void Caller, Flamewaker and arcane missiles, and probably a few others I can't think of.
New cards, that get to be tested over several months, tweaked privately, and balanced with other cards, make old cards good. Buffs would have to go through similar testing which means the people who would be testing new cards would be scrapping that to work on old cards. I'd rather have a card that made war golem good rather than an attempt to buff war golem .
I think some health/attack tweaks to already nerfed cards would be cool as well. Buff novice engineer to 1/2 as it were b4. Its not sure it would be viable or played, I dont think it would be auto include as it used to be but atleast it might be experimented with.
Any time you saw Loot Hoarder, you'd see her instead. That's ..pretty much it. Loot Hoarder would go back to his old 'worthless' status he was pre-novice. Not sure how exciting that would be. And again, the team would have to use time normally put towards the next expansion into testing whether +1 health would break the game again. No, you can't have the same group of people pump out 3 expansions a year AND work on possible nerfs to key cards AND work on possible buffs to every card that's not currently in the meta so that it doesn't break the game now or after future expansions.
As for nerfs incoming, I could see a Dr. Boom one coming based on the Nat Pagle precedent of not wanting auto-include neutral minions, but wouldn't be surprised if they just expect us to deal with it.
I don't know. Nat Pagle didn't jsut get autoincluded: he defined games. The straw that broke the camel's back was that tournament game where Nat was dropped immediately but one person won purely because his Nat drew more cards. It showed not only how common he was but how the entire game revolved around how well he rolled.
OTOH, Harvest Golem was so common people demanded nerfs. Instead he was buffed in GvG and given synergy with a very powerful deck type... then dropped from the meta due to a new card being introduced.
So the question is whether Boom is a Nat Pagle that revolves the meta or a harvest golem that is just a great card with no competition that just needs new cards to compete with. I'd argue the later but I can see the former. We'll see.
Probably something coming on the Grim Patron deck front as well. Blizzard has a history of being very careful with abuse of the Charge Mechanic which this deck clearly does. I'd imagine something as simple as increasing Warsong Commander's mana cost and maybe giving her a stat boost or something like they did to Starving Buzzard
Well, the first goal seems to be in just slightly nerfing a card, like they did with UTH and Leeroy. They only nuke a card when the main mechanic itself is the problem. If they target warsong, they will probably nuke it. They can, however, kill the whole issue by just giving Frothing 1 more attack. It would be a compromise: a stronger frothing, but one that can no longer charge. You can use him as a threat, but the opponent gets a turn to respond if they aren't too weak. Note that we have plentyh of card that can do 30+ damage with the right setup. The issue is From The Hand OTKs.
Thus I'd say they will 4/4 Frothing and leave the rest alone.
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One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
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It sure seems like this has been the longest number of updates/time without any cards being nerfed. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I just think it might be contributing to the feeling that nothing has changed much in a long time. When do you think the next nerf is coming and what card(s) do you think might be in the sights?
My hope is that Frothing or Warsong sees some change or else GP goes to a 3/2. I think Dr. Balanced will remain as-is which I'm OK with. I'd like to see some nerf/change happen as soon as the next update.
The last wing of BRM opened one month ago.
In short, no.. this is NOT the longest time since the last nerf or change. It's not even above average.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Grim Patron to a 3/2? lol that would make it literally useless. If we say there's a problem with GP warrior, it would for sure be Frothing and even that requires a pretty ridiculous set of circumstances.
Have a great deck that's really, really cheap? Help the new players out
He didn't say nerf/change, he meant only nerf and the last card that was nerfed was undertaker which was quite some time ago.
I think that a balanced way to nerf GP warrior would be changing Warsong Commander's effect to "Whenever a minion with 3 health or less is summoned, give it charge." This way, the enemy could have an answer with small minions.
Blizzard doesn't like nerfing anything one month before or after a card change. Miracle was seen as an issue pre-Naxx but blizzard wanted to see how the new cards affected the game before changing it.
About a month afterwards, Leeroy was nerfed. That was on a change they knew they probably had to do about 4 months before they did it thanks to the expansion in between.
And note that since they don't see Dr. Boom as needing a nerf, they didn't really have anything that even needed to be looked at until BRM came around, and they are going to give the game time to make changes to those cards.
And note, they have stated that they noticed how powerful grim patron warrior is. But they won'tn kneejerk a change.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Yes, we are now one month past BRM so a nerf is on the table as a possibility as soon as next update if they wanted to. However, I do believe this has been the longest stretch without any nerfs since the UT one.
It would be amusing if the "nerf" for Warsong ends up being to give charge to only summoned minions, since that was how the card had been bugged forever and only got fixed before BRM :)
the only cards I see as likely to get hit with the nerfbat are Dr. Boom and maybe Goblin Blastmage. possibly small changes to Mechwarper or Unstable Portal, but I think those are unlikely.
"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear turns into a cat and eats you." - Anonymous Druid
Giving a war golem +2/+2 doesn't make it any more viable than before. Meanwhile, other cards would become too strong and end up simply replacing another card for its spot.
What makes old cards worthwhile is new decks created by new cards, such as how patron warrior brought Warsong commander into top tier and Flamewaker caused arcane missiles, of all things, to get into the meta.
So if you want the old cards to be viable, without them simply replacing the current cards, you want new decks and expansions that synergize with them, not simple health/attack tweaks.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I'd be mortified to see Frothing Berserker nerfed. I have used it consistently in my CW decks for over a year despite the groupthink discarding it and feel quite attached to the card as a result.
Grim Patron itself might require a rethink but I don't find the deck to be stupidly overpowered so I can live with it as it is.
I guess they're getting better at spotting problem cards at the design stage. Going up against miracle rogue as a new player must have pissed so many people off because the deck is so alien, and then you die. I think the game stats for UT must have been ridiculous - if you don't kill it turn 1, you were probably losing 80% of the time, just on that one card on one turn. There's nothing super unfair out there right now imo, and we have the tools to suppress most decks should they become strong and popular.
FTR I'm not actually a big fan of buffing/nerfing anything in HS. Since it is digital and almost every card is created with an overly balanced approach from the start, instead of nerfing the few OP cards it makes more sense to introduce cards that make previous cards more playable for one reason or another as they are. Nerfing always comes back to bite you in the end.
I think it has been good overall that we haven't seen drastic changes or continual nerfs, but I also think it has contributed to the meta feeling so stale for so long before and after BRM. Hopefully there will be only one set of nerfs before July and then we see new cards that actually breathe new life into the game and meta and make it feel fresh.
I honestly think the best way to nerf GP, and it does need to be looked at, is to have it so it can only spawn a max of 2 dupes.
I agree, well said.
Still waiting for Dr Balance nerf.
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Still waiting for Nat Pagle buff
the most broken card in the game is mad scientist but if it hasn't been nerfed yet i doubt it will. if any card is gonna get nerfed it's the good doctor , maybe thaurisan in some months. grim patron is fine i doubt it'll be nerfed, it would be silly if it was.
Very unlikely that they will buff old cards. Why bother when you can just release a new card that serves the same purpose, and thereby drive sales?
As for nerfs incoming, I could see a Dr. Boom one coming based on the Nat Pagle precedent of not wanting auto-include neutral minions, but wouldn't be surprised if they just expect us to deal with it.
Probably something coming on the Grim Patron deck front as well. Blizzard has a history of being very careful with abuse of the Charge Mechanic which this deck clearly does. I'd imagine something as simple as increasing Warsong Commander's mana cost and maybe giving her a stat boost or something like they did to Starving Buzzard
Blizzard stated that they don't buff cards because of the mess it can cause. If the buff isn't strong enough, the card ends up about as worthless as before and, thus, wasted everyone's time. Many people think that giving war golem more stats will make it viable. It won't. If they make a strong buff then..well, last time they did a real buff on a card was UTH. They had redesigned it due to it being too powerful (giving all beasts charge) and made it what it does now at 4 mana. It didn't see play so they buffed it to 2 mana.
The result was the Age of Hunter. They had to nerf 2 cards, UTH itself and buzzard, just to rebalance that once change. One buff resulted in half a year of brokenness and the death of starving buzzard. Blizzard isn't going to go back to that willy nilly. And they aren't going to do weekly changes of "Lets buff this card, then next week nerf it again because we messed up." Card games, online or offline, can't handle changes like that "to make things interesting." You shouldn't be changing stats just to shake things up in ANY game anyway.
Also note that, for a long while, people were demanding for a buff to Doomguard. It was deemed as not worth it due to the discard feature. This was, of course, before zoo started using it. Not sure anyone wants a buff on that card now.
Warsong wasn't always broken and was actually more powerful than before. You used to be able to charge cards that were base < 3 but buffed itself like Bloodsail. Enrage warrior was played with, but wasn't really viable. Same for Frothing. The bug fix was going to happen anyway, but wouldn't have made warsong viable without Grim. The Grim was key to making those cards viable. Same for Imp Gang Boss/Mal'Ganis and Void Caller, Flamewaker and arcane missiles, and probably a few others I can't think of.
New cards, that get to be tested over several months, tweaked privately, and balanced with other cards, make old cards good. Buffs would have to go through similar testing which means the people who would be testing new cards would be scrapping that to work on old cards. I'd rather have a card that made war golem good rather than an attempt to buff war golem .
Any time you saw Loot Hoarder, you'd see her instead. That's ..pretty much it. Loot Hoarder would go back to his old 'worthless' status he was pre-novice. Not sure how exciting that would be. And again, the team would have to use time normally put towards the next expansion into testing whether +1 health would break the game again. No, you can't have the same group of people pump out 3 expansions a year AND work on possible nerfs to key cards AND work on possible buffs to every card that's not currently in the meta so that it doesn't break the game now or after future expansions.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I don't know. Nat Pagle didn't jsut get autoincluded: he defined games. The straw that broke the camel's back was that tournament game where Nat was dropped immediately but one person won purely because his Nat drew more cards. It showed not only how common he was but how the entire game revolved around how well he rolled.
OTOH, Harvest Golem was so common people demanded nerfs. Instead he was buffed in GvG and given synergy with a very powerful deck type... then dropped from the meta due to a new card being introduced.
So the question is whether Boom is a Nat Pagle that revolves the meta or a harvest golem that is just a great card with no competition that just needs new cards to compete with. I'd argue the later but I can see the former. We'll see.
Well, the first goal seems to be in just slightly nerfing a card, like they did with UTH and Leeroy. They only nuke a card when the main mechanic itself is the problem. If they target warsong, they will probably nuke it. They can, however, kill the whole issue by just giving Frothing 1 more attack. It would be a compromise: a stronger frothing, but one that can no longer charge. You can use him as a threat, but the opponent gets a turn to respond if they aren't too weak. Note that we have plentyh of card that can do 30+ damage with the right setup. The issue is From The Hand OTKs.
Thus I'd say they will 4/4 Frothing and leave the rest alone.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.