Well, the first goal seems to be in just slightly nerfing a card, like they did with UTH and Leeroy. They only nuke a card when the main mechanic itself is the problem. If they target warsong, they will probably nuke it. They can, however, kill the whole issue by just giving Frothing 1 more attack. It would be a compromise: a stronger frothing, but one that can no longer charge. You can use him as a threat, but the opponent gets a turn to respond if they aren't too weak. Note that we have plentyh of card that can do 30+ damage with the right setup. The issue is From The Hand OTKs.
Thus I'd say they will 4/4 Frothing and leave the rest alone.
Well, then you have to increase Berserker's Mana Cost and it ends up Nuking one Card over another.
I would argue that Warsong is the bigger threat to the environment, as a mechanic that gives blanket charge to other minions will need to be carefully evaluated with every <4 Attack Minion that gets released going forward.
Warsong has been shown to be exploitable. I would suggest it makes more sense to attack the root of the problem.
Well, then you have to increase Berserker's Mana Cost and it ends up Nuking one Card over another.
Why? The mana cost:power is just a guideline. We have cards that are over and undercosted. Fireball is actually meant to cost 5 mana, but was undercosted to make it more usable. and even if he does turn into a 4 mana 4/4 that gets buffed, that wouldn't make him unusable.
I would argue that Warsong is the bigger threat to the environment, as a mechanic that gives blanket charge to other minions will need to be carefully evaluated with every <4 Attack Minion that gets released going forward.
Upping her mana cost, though, would make her unusable. Boosting her stats won't help with that. As you mentioned, added stats and mana to buzzard ruined him. Honestly, even if he was better stated, he would still be unusable.
Warsong would face a similar fate due to being a combo pieces. No amount of stats would save her from an opponent killing her ASAP and without that Patron Warrior dies completely.
There's one option for warsong: make charge an aura that's gained or removed similar to Southsea. Thus once a minion goes over 3 attack, they lose the ability to charge. It's not the 3 mana charges that create teh problem (even the endless Grims) but the 30+ damage frothing charges.
Warsong has been shown to be exploitable. I would suggest it makes more sense to attack the root of the problem.
But is there a way to do it without completely turning it into another Miracle situation? Do we really want warrior to go back to Control or nothing?
I think some health/attack tweaks to already nerfed cards would be cool as well. Buff novice engineer to 1/2 as it were b4. Its not sure it would be viable or played, I dont think it would be auto include as it used to be but atleast it might be experimented with.
Any time you saw Loot Hoarder, you'd see her instead. That's ..pretty much it. Loot Hoarder would go back to his old 'worthless' status he was pre-novice. Not sure how exciting that would be. And again, the team would have to use time normally put towards the next expansion into testing whether +1 health would break the game again. No, you can't have the same group of people pump out 3 expansions a year AND work on possible nerfs to key cards AND work on possible buffs to every card that's not currently in the meta so that it doesn't break the game now or after future expansions.
Ye well if you say its so then it must be true right? >_> ...
would it happen just because novice was replaced by loot when the nerf came way back when? its not the same game or the same meta as it was back then. high health is not as important anymore. Back then, argent squire was a very popular 1-drop now you never see it. the point is, meta change so just because everyone played novice back then its not guaranteed that everyone would now with so much more to chose from.. so why exactly would everyone stop playing loot hoarder?
But it is comforting that we have someone in this forum that know exactly how buffs/nerfs would affect the meta.
1. Can the act. This is speculation. I wrote it so that you can see WHY I disagree and debate it. If you see something that sounds off, you can reply and show why you think it's wrong. A LOT better than "That's a stupid idea, shut up!" most other people do to ideas.
Whatever the case we need SOME kind of idea of what will happen before any change kicks in. THe game can't handle unknown changes just to keep things interesting. Since we can't test, we can only speculate which is what I'm doing now. Note that Blizzard, who DOES do tests already gave their opinion: NO! I dont' mind arguing against them, but we'll need more than just "it sounds cool" to do it. And so far, I haven't really heard of any case to make me think that buffing is a good idea.
2. Why Novice vs Loot? Same reason as before, which hasn't changed due to the meta: Immediate card draw > delayed draw. That's what made Novice so great back then. It's her horrible stats that keep her away now.
And honestly I assumed that it would work out. It could be true that 1/2 would be seen as useless now because Loot hoarder can at least kill a 3/2 if it's not hero powered and no one silences those things anyway. If so then the hange would be even more useless since then no one would use a Novice Engineer. The two are in competing spots and not even combo decks can afford to carry all of them. If Novice's 2 health is more appealing then Loot hoarder won't be used. If Loot Hoarder's 2 attack is better then Novice won't be used and we wasted blizzard's time playtesting the thing.
Again, if you see a different situation I'm all ears. If you want to start attacking the poster because my tone sounds too 'forceful' then nm this whole thing.
I just have no clue at all why they haven't nerfed scientist, I hate it more than boom. Just make it draw the secret instead of playing it, the card holds way too much value and tempo in a 2/2 trading body.
Definitely. People don't whine about it as much as Boom because it doesn't really look OP, but the pure value and tempo you get out can be game-ending. It would still be very good if it just drew a secret which shows how ridiculous it is now.
Mad scientist is hands down the most broken card in the game. No other card is even close. I don't think I would hate mages or hunters that much if I didn't see that I-win-card on turn 2.
If secrets were good enough to run without mad scientist (only in hunter is this the case) then mad scientist would be considered overpowered. Instead in mage it feels like including mad scientist and secrets just adds more variance while keeping the win rate constant. Drawing mage secrets is just so bad it easily counteracts the wins you get from drawing mad scientist by turn 2. The only reason this card hasn't been nerfed yet is because of how awful secrets are.
I have to agree though that in hunter it's complete bullshit because their secrets are actually viable.
An acceptable nerf would be 3 mana cost or fetch secret instead of play secret.
Honestly most of the cards are fine as they are. Just add more expansions and give us new fresh cards. After that if nerfing or balancing is needed, do that. Dr. Boom4life
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-*SnowGold*™
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Well, then you have to increase Berserker's Mana Cost and it ends up Nuking one Card over another.
I would argue that Warsong is the bigger threat to the environment, as a mechanic that gives blanket charge to other minions will need to be carefully evaluated with every <4 Attack Minion that gets released going forward.
Warsong has been shown to be exploitable. I would suggest it makes more sense to attack the root of the problem.
Never gonna happem. Doesnt need to be nerfed anyways. This age old argument is dead.
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
It's an entirely reasonable conclusion.
Why would you want conditional card draw instead of immediate card draw?
ANY reason?
This.
Why? The mana cost:power is just a guideline. We have cards that are over and undercosted. Fireball is actually meant to cost 5 mana, but was undercosted to make it more usable. and even if he does turn into a 4 mana 4/4 that gets buffed, that wouldn't make him unusable.
Upping her mana cost, though, would make her unusable. Boosting her stats won't help with that. As you mentioned, added stats and mana to buzzard ruined him. Honestly, even if he was better stated, he would still be unusable.
Warsong would face a similar fate due to being a combo pieces. No amount of stats would save her from an opponent killing her ASAP and without that Patron Warrior dies completely.
There's one option for warsong: make charge an aura that's gained or removed similar to Southsea. Thus once a minion goes over 3 attack, they lose the ability to charge. It's not the 3 mana charges that create teh problem (even the endless Grims) but the 30+ damage frothing charges.
But is there a way to do it without completely turning it into another Miracle situation? Do we really want warrior to go back to Control or nothing?
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
1. Can the act. This is speculation. I wrote it so that you can see WHY I disagree and debate it. If you see something that sounds off, you can reply and show why you think it's wrong. A LOT better than "That's a stupid idea, shut up!" most other people do to ideas.
Whatever the case we need SOME kind of idea of what will happen before any change kicks in. THe game can't handle unknown changes just to keep things interesting. Since we can't test, we can only speculate which is what I'm doing now. Note that Blizzard, who DOES do tests already gave their opinion: NO! I dont' mind arguing against them, but we'll need more than just "it sounds cool" to do it. And so far, I haven't really heard of any case to make me think that buffing is a good idea.
2. Why Novice vs Loot? Same reason as before, which hasn't changed due to the meta: Immediate card draw > delayed draw. That's what made Novice so great back then. It's her horrible stats that keep her away now.
And honestly I assumed that it would work out. It could be true that 1/2 would be seen as useless now because Loot hoarder can at least kill a 3/2 if it's not hero powered and no one silences those things anyway. If so then the hange would be even more useless since then no one would use a Novice Engineer. The two are in competing spots and not even combo decks can afford to carry all of them. If Novice's 2 health is more appealing then Loot hoarder won't be used. If Loot Hoarder's 2 attack is better then Novice won't be used and we wasted blizzard's time playtesting the thing.
Again, if you see a different situation I'm all ears. If you want to start attacking the poster because my tone sounds too 'forceful' then nm this whole thing.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Definitely. People don't whine about it as much as Boom because it doesn't really look OP, but the pure value and tempo you get out can be game-ending. It would still be very good if it just drew a secret which shows how ridiculous it is now.
If secrets were good enough to run without mad scientist (only in hunter is this the case) then mad scientist would be considered overpowered. Instead in mage it feels like including mad scientist and secrets just adds more variance while keeping the win rate constant. Drawing mage secrets is just so bad it easily counteracts the wins you get from drawing mad scientist by turn 2. The only reason this card hasn't been nerfed yet is because of how awful secrets are.
I have to agree though that in hunter it's complete bullshit because their secrets are actually viable.
An acceptable nerf would be 3 mana cost or fetch secret instead of play secret.
Honestly most of the cards are fine as they are. Just add more expansions and give us new fresh cards. After that if nerfing or balancing is needed, do that. Dr. Boom4life
-*SnowGold*™