I through this up on the official boards, but its buried inside someone else's thread. I thought I'd post it here to and see what you guys think? Just ideas to: A, increase the amount of gold you can earn just by playing and B, make you feel like your accomplishing something when you play. After 20 hours of playing the game this is my only critique, I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything when I play "Play mode".
DISCLAIMER** The game is AWESOME! I'm not complaining and I REALLY don't want this to be looked as a complaining thread or me saying I want everything for free. I KNOW Blizzard needs to tune it so that people can't have the whole collections for free within 2-3 weeks. I KNOW card games can only thrive if they have a consistent stream of money coming in! But, like many others, I just think its a bit harsh right now. Beyond the "Ratio" of earned gold though, is the MAIN problem of just not feeling like you are accomplishing anything. So, if they like the ratios as they are, the below could be emended to be even slower gold earnings - the main thing it does is reward long play sessions and gives you a feeling of accomplishment. Also, for the record, after 20 hours, I have 52 wins.. so I've earned 120 gold for three dailies + 50 for the wins. Is only 1 pack enough for 20 hours of playing? Anyway, on to the post:
Below are where I feel the "problems" are when it comes to making people feel like the game is "pay to win" or in other words "painful" for free to play players (I've spent $30 so far btw)
GOLD REWARDS The Way it is right now: You have a continuing progress (or continuing quest) bar that shows that you need 5 wins in play mode to earn 5 gold. You can also complete 1 daily quests that varies in what you have to do, and rewards 40 gold.
Suggestion that changes the system and ratios: Make there be 5 different "daily continuing quests". You get a different one every day. They reset every day and would be something like this: -Daily Quest 1: Get 5 wins: Reward 5 gold. -After you complete that: Get 15 wins: Reward 15 gold. -After you complete that: Get 30 wins: Reward 25 gold. -After you complete that: Get 50 wins: Reward 50 gold. -After you complete that: Every additional 10 wins gives 20 gold. (The way it is now you would get 50 gold for 50 wins, this gives you 95 and rewards longer play sessions by giving you 2 gold per win if you keep playing after you max the quest)
-Daily Quest 2: Get 1 win with each class: Reward 10 gold. -After you complete that: Get 2 wins with each class: Reward 20 gold. -After you complete that: Get 3 wins with each class: Reward 35 gold. -After you complete that: Get 5 wins with each class: Reward 55 gold. -After you complete that: Every additional "set of wins with each class" gives 20 gold (Compared to the first daily quest this one gives "more gold per win" but requires you to be skilled with all classes. For 45 wins you would earn 120 gold (compare to 90 gold for 50 wins above)
-Daily Quest 3: Deal 150 damage to an Enemy hero: Reward 8 gold. -After you complete that: Deal 350 damage to an Enemy hero: Reward 15 gold. -After you complete that: Deal 1000 damage to an Enemy hero: Reward 20 gold. -After you complete that: Deal 1750 damage to an Enemy hero: Reward 35 gold. -After you complete that: Every additional 350 damage to an Enemy hero gives 15 gold. (This quest rewards less gold over all, but has the advantage of being "complete able" when you lose a game)
-Daily Quest 4: Summon 75 minions: Reward 8 gold. -After you complete that: Summon 200 minions: Reward 15 gold. -After you complete that: Summon 375 minions: Reward 20 gold. -After you complete that: Summon 750 minions: Reward 35 gold. -After you complete that: Every additional 200 minions summoned gives 15 gold. (This quest rewards less gold over all, but has the advantage of being "complete able" when you lose a game)
-Daily Quest 5: Destroy 60 minions: Reward 8 gold. -After you complete that: Destroy 150 minions: Reward 15 gold. -After you complete that: Destroy 325 minions: Reward 20 gold. -After you complete that: Destroy 650 minions: Reward 35 gold. -After you complete that: Every additional 150 minions destroyed gives 15 gold. (This quest rewards less gold over all, but has the advantage of being "complete able" when you lose a game)
Besides these quests that go on all day: there would be "daily" quests similar to the ones that are in the game now, at least in terms of "large one shot rewards" for completing something. However, rather that what they are now, they would be AI battles:
Each day you would be presented with a "Map" and fight your way through 8-10 battles against AI heroes. They could be similar to the tutorial battles, ramping up in difficulty until you get to the end. It would require the Dev team to make some more unquire AI only heroes, but you have ALL of World of Warcraft to draw from, so should be no problem! Make the reward for completing these 75 gold. For release, there could be just 2 or 3 different "Maps" that rotate every day. More added over time.
ARENA ENTRANCE The Way it is right now: You have to pay $1.99 to get in - as it stands now you can earn your way in about once every other three days. You can get 120 from three daily quests, throw in 30 from getting 30 wins. You'll end up getting in more like every 2.5 days when you count your winnings from the previous arena modes. You MAY even have enough to buy right back in if you are able to win 6 or 7 games!
$1.99 is a great price, don't mess with it. 150 gold to get in is fine too. I do think the rewards need some tweaking before release.
I don't want to get into the details of what I think the rewards should be, but I think in general, more rewards need to be added (for high amounts of wins). I've played arena now 6 times, and the most I've won is 4 games. Of course, I'm not the greatest player in the world, but I think I'm pretty good. My "normal" will probably never get higher than 3.5 or 4 wins. So I think 3.5 to 4 wins should net about what it does now. However, the skill / luck / good draws to get 5+ wins is pretty big I think. Especially when you take into account that you are playing decks that have won the same/similar amount as you keep winning. So I think the rewards need to be more than they are at 5 wins. Perhaps at 5 wins, start having a VERY small chance for more than 1 Card Pack in your Reward package that has the card packs in it? Once you get to 9 wins, it's certain it will have at least 2 and has a chance to add a 3rd.
The main thing we need is PRACTICE ARENA mode!
In this mode, you pay 5 gold (a Bribe to the Arena Master to let you in after hours) and you get to do the amazingly awesome play style that is arena mode! You don't lose your deck after 3 losses though, you can play it as long as you like (but it goes away when you leave the mode - to prevent people saving up their STUPID over powered decks for too long).
You can continue completing your Daily Continuing quests while in the practice arena, but created another small gold sink (the 5 gold entry) for those that just want to play the mode with out the massive 150 gold fee.
The downside to this, is that not as many people would be in the REAL arena.
Perhaps making "weekly" quests instead of daily quests would help people play more casually instead of feeling like they HAVE to play each day.
They did this with World of Warcraft to help people with schedules that don't allow play every day, and I think it worked great.
They could also consider a monthly "subscription" that ups the rate at which you earn gold (and possibly other benefits), allowing people who play a lot and enjoy earning gold through gameplay to do it like that, instead of just buying cards directly.
They could also consider a monthly "subscription" that ups the rate at which you earn gold (and possibly other benefits), allowing people who play a lot and enjoy earning gold through gameplay to do it like that, instead of just buying cards directly.
I love some of your ideas. Weekly grind quests would be great and promote extended play. I also like the idea of a campaign mode similar to what you had in games like mortal kombat with cheesy story line and all. That would he hilarious. The story mode and team battles are the two additions to hearthstone which I would LOVE to see.
I think Blizz has been a little light on Play mode rewards on beta because they want people trying out different things like arena and the store, they dont' want people quicly building their uber deck and doing nothign but ranked.
I really like the idea of a Practice Arena. Arena imo is the funnest game mode and it would be great to be able to practice making random decks against AI to get a feel of how it is before paying an entrance fee for the real arena.
Nice, lenghty post! In my opinion, 1.50 for an arena entrance is preposterous. Like many people have said, it is by far (from what it seems) the most fun mode in the game, and paying 1.50 just to get destroyed the first 10, 15 times or so would just suck. Especially because getting your entrance fee back is like, really hard. Id much rather pay ~5 a month for unlimited entrance, but I suppose they would have to rethink everything for that to work out. Maybe 1.50 for more than 1 attempt?
I think weekly quests would probably be better than daily like in WoW. The difference though is that WoW requires a subscription so if you're paying Blizzard $X a month anyway, they don't care as much how often you log in. In this game, the more they can get you to log in everyday, the higher the chance you'll pay real $ for something, whether it's packs or arena. At the end of the day, they don't want to make it a pay to win game, but it would be a total lie if they didn't want more $ from customers.
i would assume that practice arent doesnt give any rewards except for quest progress. VERY reduced entry fee with no rewards except for incidental stuff like XP.
The gold rewards for play mode do sound pretty low. Though I think it's a very delicate balance. Are you suggesting that all the daily quests are going on at once? That seems excessive to me. You would end up accomplishing multiple goals at the same time and be getting a fairly decent amount of gold from just playing. I would think that the incentive to pay money would be reduced too much. If only one of your daily quests was available on any given day that sounds much more reasonable.
I also really like the idea of the map mode. Some sort of story mode would be sweet. I'm a sucker for lore. Even if it has no real basis in the main world's continuity. Something just for this game is fine by me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hey Guys,
I through this up on the official boards, but its buried inside someone else's thread. I thought I'd post it here to and see what you guys think? Just ideas to: A, increase the amount of gold you can earn just by playing and B, make you feel like your accomplishing something when you play. After 20 hours of playing the game this is my only critique, I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything when I play "Play mode".
DISCLAIMER** The game is AWESOME! I'm not complaining and I REALLY don't want this to be looked as a complaining thread or me saying I want everything for free. I KNOW Blizzard needs to tune it so that people can't have the whole collections for free within 2-3 weeks. I KNOW card games can only thrive if they have a consistent stream of money coming in! But, like many others, I just think its a bit harsh right now. Beyond the "Ratio" of earned gold though, is the MAIN problem of just not feeling like you are accomplishing anything. So, if they like the ratios as they are, the below could be emended to be even slower gold earnings - the main thing it does is reward long play sessions and gives you a feeling of accomplishment. Also, for the record, after 20 hours, I have 52 wins.. so I've earned 120 gold for three dailies + 50 for the wins. Is only 1 pack enough for 20 hours of playing? Anyway, on to the post:
Below are where I feel the "problems" are when it comes to making people feel like the game is "pay to win" or in other words "painful" for free to play players (I've spent $30 so far btw)
GOLD REWARDS
The Way it is right now: You have a continuing progress (or continuing quest) bar that shows that you need 5 wins in play mode to earn 5 gold. You can also complete 1 daily quests that varies in what you have to do, and rewards 40 gold.
Suggestion that changes the system and ratios: Make there be 5 different "daily continuing quests". You get a different one every day. They reset every day and would be something like this:
-Daily Quest 1: Get 5 wins: Reward 5 gold.
-After you complete that: Get 15 wins: Reward 15 gold.
-After you complete that: Get 30 wins: Reward 25 gold.
-After you complete that: Get 50 wins: Reward 50 gold.
-After you complete that: Every additional 10 wins gives 20 gold.
(The way it is now you would get 50 gold for 50 wins, this gives you 95 and rewards longer play sessions by giving you 2 gold per win if you keep playing after you max the quest)
-Daily Quest 2: Get 1 win with each class: Reward 10 gold.
-After you complete that: Get 2 wins with each class: Reward 20 gold.
-After you complete that: Get 3 wins with each class: Reward 35 gold.
-After you complete that: Get 5 wins with each class: Reward 55 gold.
-After you complete that: Every additional "set of wins with each class" gives 20 gold
(Compared to the first daily quest this one gives "more gold per win" but requires you to be skilled with all classes. For 45 wins you would earn 120 gold (compare to 90 gold for 50 wins above)
-Daily Quest 3: Deal 150 damage to an Enemy hero: Reward 8 gold.
-After you complete that: Deal 350 damage to an Enemy hero: Reward 15 gold.
-After you complete that: Deal 1000 damage to an Enemy hero: Reward 20 gold.
-After you complete that: Deal 1750 damage to an Enemy hero: Reward 35 gold.
-After you complete that: Every additional 350 damage to an Enemy hero gives 15 gold.
(This quest rewards less gold over all, but has the advantage of being "complete able" when you lose a game)
-Daily Quest 4: Summon 75 minions: Reward 8 gold.
-After you complete that: Summon 200 minions: Reward 15 gold.
-After you complete that: Summon 375 minions: Reward 20 gold.
-After you complete that: Summon 750 minions: Reward 35 gold.
-After you complete that: Every additional 200 minions summoned gives 15 gold.
(This quest rewards less gold over all, but has the advantage of being "complete able" when you lose a game)
-Daily Quest 5: Destroy 60 minions: Reward 8 gold.
-After you complete that: Destroy 150 minions: Reward 15 gold.
-After you complete that: Destroy 325 minions: Reward 20 gold.
-After you complete that: Destroy 650 minions: Reward 35 gold.
-After you complete that: Every additional 150 minions destroyed gives 15 gold.
(This quest rewards less gold over all, but has the advantage of being "complete able" when you lose a game)
Besides these quests that go on all day: there would be "daily" quests similar to the ones that are in the game now, at least in terms of "large one shot rewards" for completing something. However, rather that what they are now, they would be AI battles:
Each day you would be presented with a "Map" and fight your way through 8-10 battles against AI heroes. They could be similar to the tutorial battles, ramping up in difficulty until you get to the end. It would require the Dev team to make some more unquire AI only heroes, but you have ALL of World of Warcraft to draw from, so should be no problem! Make the reward for completing these 75 gold. For release, there could be just 2 or 3 different "Maps" that rotate every day. More added over time.
ARENA ENTRANCE
The Way it is right now: You have to pay $1.99 to get in - as it stands now you can earn your way in about once every other three days. You can get 120 from three daily quests, throw in 30 from getting 30 wins. You'll end up getting in more like every 2.5 days when you count your winnings from the previous arena modes. You MAY even have enough to buy right back in if you are able to win 6 or 7 games!
$1.99 is a great price, don't mess with it. 150 gold to get in is fine too. I do think the rewards need some tweaking before release.
I don't want to get into the details of what I think the rewards should be, but I think in general, more rewards need to be added (for high amounts of wins). I've played arena now 6 times, and the most I've won is 4 games. Of course, I'm not the greatest player in the world, but I think I'm pretty good. My "normal" will probably never get higher than 3.5 or 4 wins. So I think 3.5 to 4 wins should net about what it does now. However, the skill / luck / good draws to get 5+ wins is pretty big I think. Especially when you take into account that you are playing decks that have won the same/similar amount as you keep winning. So I think the rewards need to be more than they are at 5 wins. Perhaps at 5 wins, start having a VERY small chance for more than 1 Card Pack in your Reward package that has the card packs in it? Once you get to 9 wins, it's certain it will have at least 2 and has a chance to add a 3rd.
The main thing we need is PRACTICE ARENA mode!
In this mode, you pay 5 gold (a Bribe to the Arena Master to let you in after hours) and you get to do the amazingly awesome play style that is arena mode! You don't lose your deck after 3 losses though, you can play it as long as you like (but it goes away when you leave the mode - to prevent people saving up their STUPID over powered decks for too long).
You can continue completing your Daily Continuing quests while in the practice arena, but created another small gold sink (the 5 gold entry) for those that just want to play the mode with out the massive 150 gold fee.
The downside to this, is that not as many people would be in the REAL arena.
Perhaps making "weekly" quests instead of daily quests would help people play more casually instead of feeling like they HAVE to play each day.
They did this with World of Warcraft to help people with schedules that don't allow play every day, and I think it worked great.
They could also consider a monthly "subscription" that ups the rate at which you earn gold (and possibly other benefits), allowing people who play a lot and enjoy earning gold through gameplay to do it like that, instead of just buying cards directly.
Nice thread.
I like the idea of the "Map", where you fight against AI.
Besides that, other kinds of tournaments would be great, too.
And yes, the Arena prizes are too low, but it is the only way to evolve right now, besides just buying packs. I think this is the main problem.
Monthly subscription is an idea.
I love some of your ideas. Weekly grind quests would be great and promote extended play. I also like the idea of a campaign mode similar to what you had in games like mortal kombat with cheesy story line and all. That would he hilarious. The story mode and team battles are the two additions to hearthstone which I would LOVE to see.
I think Blizz has been a little light on Play mode rewards on beta because they want people trying out different things like arena and the store, they dont' want people quicly building their uber deck and doing nothign but ranked.
I really like the idea of a Practice Arena. Arena imo is the funnest game mode and it would be great to be able to practice making random decks against AI to get a feel of how it is before paying an entrance fee for the real arena.
Nice, lenghty post! In my opinion, 1.50 for an arena entrance is preposterous. Like many people have said, it is by far (from what it seems) the most fun mode in the game, and paying 1.50 just to get destroyed the first 10, 15 times or so would just suck. Especially because getting your entrance fee back is like, really hard. Id much rather pay ~5 a month for unlimited entrance, but I suppose they would have to rethink everything for that to work out. Maybe 1.50 for more than 1 attempt?
This is a really nice idea, but the amount would probably have to be toned down with that many possibilities! :D
I think weekly quests would probably be better than daily like in WoW. The difference though is that WoW requires a subscription so if you're paying Blizzard $X a month anyway, they don't care as much how often you log in. In this game, the more they can get you to log in everyday, the higher the chance you'll pay real $ for something, whether it's packs or arena. At the end of the day, they don't want to make it a pay to win game, but it would be a total lie if they didn't want more $ from customers.
The only thin with practice arena is why would you play regular arena then.
i would assume that practice arent doesnt give any rewards except for quest progress. VERY reduced entry fee with no rewards except for incidental stuff like XP.
The gold rewards for play mode do sound pretty low. Though I think it's a very delicate balance. Are you suggesting that all the daily quests are going on at once? That seems excessive to me. You would end up accomplishing multiple goals at the same time and be getting a fairly decent amount of gold from just playing. I would think that the incentive to pay money would be reduced too much. If only one of your daily quests was available on any given day that sounds much more reasonable.
I also really like the idea of the map mode. Some sort of story mode would be sweet. I'm a sucker for lore. Even if it has no real basis in the main world's continuity. Something just for this game is fine by me.