My Hungry Dragon gave my opponents Clockwork Gnome 4 times yesterday which ended up giving them freeze spare part twice to freeze my dragon, and 2 of them were mech mages who also used it with antonidas. I've spawned someone a free Flame Imp 3 times and given hunters Leper Gnome and Secretkeeper in which they proceeded to buff it next turn with a secret. So yeah not a huge fan so far unless you can definitely kill whatever you give your opponent before their turn.
edit: it does work well in pally and i guess any deck where you will usually have control or stuff to trade by turn 4. Probably going to use at least 1 in tempo mage. I've been trying to make a good dragonpriest deck with it and so far it's about 50/50. I think next week's Dragonkin Sorcerer will be better for priest
Hrm. There are some issues on display here in this thread for sure. On topic though, right now in HS there are two break points that matter in attack/dmg, 3 & 5. In health it is usually 3 & 6. When you factor in all of the viable minions that are played often, the times when a minion hits one of both of those magic numbers means it is pretty much top shelf. When you don't get both of them the card can be good but usually means it is going to need assistance either form a weapon or AoE or other minion meaning it is going to be 1:1.5 or 1:2 not in your favor. Aside from the usual mana/value calculations this has to be considered and is often not. A 3/6 or 5/6 is always going to be superior right now with the current card pool. *however* Hungry Dragon's drawback effectively makes it a 5/5 or at worst a 5/4. Yes you can deal with the drawback but that factors in. There is a massive diminishing return on atk dmg until you hit 8 and health at 9, after that it would be a 10/11 and 12 atk.
The case can be made that situationally Hungry Dragon is better than Shredder due to the 5/6 even with the drawback as long as the spawned minion can be dealt with in some way other than the dragon itself even if there is some cost. If the 5/6 body gets to stay in tact then it is the better value. Not to say minions outside of those numbers aren't valuable but those numbers are the definite pinnacle right now.
The real lesson to be learned form this thread... don't use the term "netdecking" as a negative/imply that "netdeckers" are stupid or you will be blown up regardless of your intended message... especially on a site that's pretty much dedicated to it.
In all honesty though I think people need to get over the term "netdecking". People are gonna share info (easier than ever thanks to the internet) and people are gonna latch onto info that is considered "good"... especially if it looks like the majority consensus. That process is largely existent in all facets of humanity (as shown by that graph posted earlier) so I honestly don't see how "netdecking" is even worth bringing up. If you wanna be innovative then go do it, I encourage you to... all facets of human life can benefit from innovators... but don't pretend you're better than people who aren't. Some people like innovation, some people like proven efficiency. It's a competition, not an art instillation. A win is a win, nobody cares how you got there.
Hopefully that didn't come off as dickish, I'm not trying to berate or belittle anybody I just don't understand how netdecking is even worth mentioning... negatively or otherwise.
I find this whole debate kind of silly. The card has been out for around twenty four hours, give or take your zone. Calling everyone who is not immediately running it a net decker and a scrub seems a little premature.
I find Hungry Dragon to be pretty good in classes that can deal 1 dmg or can control the board effectively since most of the 1 drops have 1 health, yes there are times where you give your opponent something like Voidwalker or Shieldbearer that slows you down, or a threatening minion like Flame Imp, Lightwarden (against priest and sometimes shaman), and Worgen Infiltrator. I normally only play Hungry if I can deal with the 1 mana minon immediately with another minion or can remove it right away with a weapon. Non-Tempo and Dragon decks should always just stick with Piloted Shredder since its stickiness is better for the most part since it requires more effort to deal with a Shreeder then with a 5/6.
Oh about the whole netdeck thing, you can't just expect 1 card to be run by everybody overnight it takes time before a newly introduced card finds its place in the metagame.
First, all this product life-cycle stuff as applied toward net-decking doesn't match up at all. That "innovator"/"adopter" stuff is from the trade of goods and services as applied to marketing and economics. Co-opting it to describe Hearthstone is some deceptive Malcom Gladwell hocus pocus. This is a game where 60% or more of people play against the Rank 20 floor where you can't go down from losing, because they either play only against friends or just ladder for quests with no further goal. What you see on Rank 5 and up says nothing about how people enjoy Hearthstone. And if you are interested enough in Hearthstone to research decks, but not interested enough to take hours and hours to test your own, what's the big deal?
On the topic of Dragon, the above poster made a pretty good case for why it won't be played in most of these classes. Paladin will be basically the only one to use it, and not just because of Dragon Consort. First, it's Paladin's style to begin with to contest the board from Turn 1 and 2 with the aim of trading, so they can deal with the 1-drop quite often with minions before they pass turn. Second, because Muster for Battle gives you a Light's Justice that easily can go to waste otherwise. Third, Dragon Consort.
For every other deck, Hungry Dragon makes you lose so much harder against Hunter, Zoo and Mech Mage that nobody will run it. No class can pass turn to an Aggro opponent after giving them a mana-less, card-less 1-drop with Charge. And even if you are the aggro deck yourself, you don't want to give your opponent material to trade down against you with, and you don't want to be running that many 4-drops in the first place, if any. There's just no room for any deck but Paladin to run this card.
As Rogue, sure, you have a Dagger. But I don't know about you, I need all the help I can get against Zoolock, Hunter and Mage, without either giving them a free one drop or being stuck with a 4-mana card I can't play. If I have to Prep a FoK just to clear it, I would rather just play Violet Teacher and Prep anything else, which gives me 2 1/1's. In the first place besides, I can pull off a Oil Combo with the worst-case Totem of Vitality that Piloted Shredder gives me, but not with the 5/6 that just died. If you are specifically pitting this card against Shredder, show me how many decks run Shredder as an all-purpose 4-drop in the first place? Just some versions of Druid? Wherever he shows up, there are either reasons to run Mechs, or reasons you want a residual minion left over. Those decks will keep running Shredder, while everyone else largely doesn't in the first place.
It's mediocre. Which is about what I expect from cards meant to strengthen control.
The Emperor says hi.
Perhaps try Hungry in any deck but Dragon Paladin, and tell me how much better than Shredder it is on average, before citing the one card in the expansion that's good in almost any deck but pure aggro.
First, all this product life-cycle stuff as applied toward net-decking doesn't match up at all. That "innovator"/"adopter" stuff is from the trade of goods and services as applied to marketing and economics. Co-opting it to describe Hearthstone is some deceptive Malcom Gladwell hocus pocus. This is a game where 60% or more of people play against the Rank 20 floor where you can't go down from losing, because they either play only against friends or just ladder for quests with no further goal. What you see on Rank 5 and up says nothing about how people enjoy Hearthstone. And if you are interested enough in Hearthstone to research decks, but not interested enough to take hours and hours to test your own, what's the big deal?
1. nothing you said actually argues AGAINST what I brought up. That most people don't compete means that they don't affect the Meta, which is what we are describing. They also would fit in with the majority who never buy the product in the first place. The cycle relates only to the population that will purchase the product at all. The cycle relates more to those who actually do participate in the competition, whether softly (i.e. go up to, say, rank 15 each month) or more aggressively.
What's the big deal? Are you assuming that my post was against such things? It's not. It's informative, not persuasive, thus the opening line saying that it's natural for most people reinventing the wheel or walking along the bleeding edge.
Most people don't craft their own decks. There's nothing wrong with it. It's not something we need to fight against or worry about. It's a natural element of..well.. everything. Myself I probably fit in with the Early majority: I'm no deck crafter or trend setter. I tend to grab the decks just after they reach the meta and tweak it to my own personal desires.
But by how it sounds you aren't actually AGAINST my statment that most people netdeck except a few %. Just that you dislike the graph, though you don't explain why my statement that the meta works similarly, and you believe I'm arguing something I'm not.
On the topic of Dragon, the above poster made a pretty good case for why it won't be played in most of these classes. Paladin will be basically the only one to use it, and not just because of Dragon Consort. First, it's Paladin's style to begin with to contest the board from Turn 1 and 2 with the aim of trading, so they can deal with the 1-drop quite often with minions before they pass turn. Second, because Muster for Battle gives you a Light's Justice that easily can go to waste otherwise. Third, Dragon Consort.
True. It's a no brainer for paladin.
For every other deck, Hungry Dragon makes you lose so much harder against Hunter, Zoo and Mech Mage that nobody will run it. No class can pass turn to an Aggro opponent after giving them a mana-less, card-less 1-drop with Charge. And even if you are the aggro deck yourself, you don't want to give your opponent material to trade down against you with, and you don't want to be running that many 4-drops in the first place, if any. There's just no room for any deck but Paladin to run this card.
1. It's a card for midrange or anti-control decks. The entire dragon line is for when the meta slows down in the upper ranks. I don't think even paladin can last in an aggro mindset since there's not enough anti-aggro to actually use a turn 7 dragon that doesn't affect the board immediately. The good thing is that real aggro is pretty much just face hunter nowadays (yes zoo is back but really, if your primary tools are 4 mana gang boss, 4 mana Void, and 9 mana Mal-Ganas, you're not an aggro deck but a midrange deck). So basically, if less than 50% of your games are face hunter, Paladin dragon may be viable and a card that grants a 1 drop may also be viable.
MAY. I'm just guessing Hungry Dragon will work better than Shredder. I wouldn't be surprised if it failed.
As Rogue, sure, you have a Dagger. But I don't know about you, I need all the help I can get against Zoolock, Hunter and Mage, without either giving them a free one drop or being stuck with a 4-mana card I can't play. If I have to Prep a FoK just to clear it, I would rather just play Violet Teacher and Prep anything else, which gives me 2 1/1's. In the first place besides, I can pull off a Oil Combo with the worst-case Totem of Vitality that Piloted Shredder gives me, but not with the 5/6 that just died. If you are specifically pitting this card against Shredder, show me how many decks run Shredder as an all-purpose 4-drop in the first place? Just some versions of Druid? Wherever he shows up, there are either reasons to run Mechs, or reasons you want a residual minion left over. Those decks will keep running Shredder, while everyone else largely doesn't in the first place.
The deck would have to be a midrange or control deck, MAYBE Tempo. not combo or aggro. Thus Rogue and Hunter are out.
Druid would use it. Honestly I never really cared for Shredder in Druid. He's there just to give a 4 drop because a wild growth turn 2 into Pass Turn is horrible. However, a 6 health minion that doesn't die to weapons easily, doesn't lose most of it's attack when it's hit by anything, and can trade with a 5 healther is intriguing.
Shamans can try it. They have enough removal to use it after turn 5 anyway.
And Priest, since they never did have a good 4 drop to play on curve since Shredders never worked well for them and they tend to have a turn 3 minion that can easily eat up a 1 drop.
So them and Paladins, or in other words everyone that's playing midrange or control that's not a warlock.
From my experience so far, it seems inferior. Most of the time it just dies in one turn, unlike the shredder who leaves behind an annoying minion you have to deal with. It's only ok if you're ahead, but any card is pretty good when ahead. It's just not what shredder is.
I know what ur doing, but u have failed, sir, your example is so one very specific scenario, mine is one specific scenario, but one that can alter one or two minions and still have the same super strong curve and overwhelming power. I like it, but i hate it :P Time to play some dragon pally.
My example was like yours... a stupid one with a list of cards playing in a specific order. Don't try to blame my example because of the specificness of the plays. It applies for your example as well.
It's the goal of a combo... to be strong... so yeah Dragon Consort turn 5 + coin turn 6 Ysera might happen. Like two Dust Devil...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
My Hungry Dragon gave my opponents Clockwork Gnome 4 times yesterday which ended up giving them freeze spare part twice to freeze my dragon, and 2 of them were mech mages who also used it with antonidas. I've spawned someone a free Flame Imp 3 times and given hunters Leper Gnome and Secretkeeper in which they proceeded to buff it next turn with a secret. So yeah not a huge fan so far unless you can definitely kill whatever you give your opponent before their turn.
edit: it does work well in pally and i guess any deck where you will usually have control or stuff to trade by turn 4. Probably going to use at least 1 in tempo mage. I've been trying to make a good dragonpriest deck with it and so far it's about 50/50. I think next week's Dragonkin Sorcerer will be better for priest
Hrm. There are some issues on display here in this thread for sure. On topic though, right now in HS there are two break points that matter in attack/dmg, 3 & 5. In health it is usually 3 & 6. When you factor in all of the viable minions that are played often, the times when a minion hits one of both of those magic numbers means it is pretty much top shelf. When you don't get both of them the card can be good but usually means it is going to need assistance either form a weapon or AoE or other minion meaning it is going to be 1:1.5 or 1:2 not in your favor. Aside from the usual mana/value calculations this has to be considered and is often not. A 3/6 or 5/6 is always going to be superior right now with the current card pool. *however* Hungry Dragon's drawback effectively makes it a 5/5 or at worst a 5/4. Yes you can deal with the drawback but that factors in. There is a massive diminishing return on atk dmg until you hit 8 and health at 9, after that it would be a 10/11 and 12 atk.
The case can be made that situationally Hungry Dragon is better than Shredder due to the 5/6 even with the drawback as long as the spawned minion can be dealt with in some way other than the dragon itself even if there is some cost. If the 5/6 body gets to stay in tact then it is the better value. Not to say minions outside of those numbers aren't valuable but those numbers are the definite pinnacle right now.
Fuck Hungry Dragon and Piloted Shredder. Silvermoon Guardian fits so much better in my aggro Blood Knight priest deck.
The real lesson to be learned form this thread... don't use the term "netdecking" as a negative/imply that "netdeckers" are stupid or you will be blown up regardless of your intended message... especially on a site that's pretty much dedicated to it.
In all honesty though I think people need to get over the term "netdecking". People are gonna share info (easier than ever thanks to the internet) and people are gonna latch onto info that is considered "good"... especially if it looks like the majority consensus. That process is largely existent in all facets of humanity (as shown by that graph posted earlier) so I honestly don't see how "netdecking" is even worth bringing up. If you wanna be innovative then go do it, I encourage you to... all facets of human life can benefit from innovators... but don't pretend you're better than people who aren't. Some people like innovation, some people like proven efficiency. It's a competition, not an art instillation. A win is a win, nobody cares how you got there.
Hopefully that didn't come off as dickish, I'm not trying to berate or belittle anybody I just don't understand how netdecking is even worth mentioning... negatively or otherwise.
I find this whole debate kind of silly. The card has been out for around twenty four hours, give or take your zone. Calling everyone who is not immediately running it a net decker and a scrub seems a little premature.
Why am I sticky?
Mod Note: Over half this thread has been pruned, can we please get along now ;)
I find Hungry Dragon to be pretty good in classes that can deal 1 dmg or can control the board effectively since most of the 1 drops have 1 health, yes there are times where you give your opponent something like Voidwalker or Shieldbearer that slows you down, or a threatening minion like Flame Imp, Lightwarden (against priest and sometimes shaman), and Worgen Infiltrator. I normally only play Hungry if I can deal with the 1 mana minon immediately with another minion or can remove it right away with a weapon. Non-Tempo and Dragon decks should always just stick with Piloted Shredder since its stickiness is better for the most part since it requires more effort to deal with a Shreeder then with a 5/6.
Oh about the whole netdeck thing, you can't just expect 1 card to be run by everybody overnight it takes time before a newly introduced card finds its place in the metagame.
First, all this product life-cycle stuff as applied toward net-decking doesn't match up at all. That "innovator"/"adopter" stuff is from the trade of goods and services as applied to marketing and economics. Co-opting it to describe Hearthstone is some deceptive Malcom Gladwell hocus pocus. This is a game where 60% or more of people play against the Rank 20 floor where you can't go down from losing, because they either play only against friends or just ladder for quests with no further goal. What you see on Rank 5 and up says nothing about how people enjoy Hearthstone. And if you are interested enough in Hearthstone to research decks, but not interested enough to take hours and hours to test your own, what's the big deal?
On the topic of Dragon, the above poster made a pretty good case for why it won't be played in most of these classes. Paladin will be basically the only one to use it, and not just because of Dragon Consort. First, it's Paladin's style to begin with to contest the board from Turn 1 and 2 with the aim of trading, so they can deal with the 1-drop quite often with minions before they pass turn. Second, because Muster for Battle gives you a Light's Justice that easily can go to waste otherwise. Third, Dragon Consort.
For every other deck, Hungry Dragon makes you lose so much harder against Hunter, Zoo and Mech Mage that nobody will run it. No class can pass turn to an Aggro opponent after giving them a mana-less, card-less 1-drop with Charge. And even if you are the aggro deck yourself, you don't want to give your opponent material to trade down against you with, and you don't want to be running that many 4-drops in the first place, if any. There's just no room for any deck but Paladin to run this card.
As Rogue, sure, you have a Dagger. But I don't know about you, I need all the help I can get against Zoolock, Hunter and Mage, without either giving them a free one drop or being stuck with a 4-mana card I can't play. If I have to Prep a FoK just to clear it, I would rather just play Violet Teacher and Prep anything else, which gives me 2 1/1's. In the first place besides, I can pull off a Oil Combo with the worst-case Totem of Vitality that Piloted Shredder gives me, but not with the 5/6 that just died. If you are specifically pitting this card against Shredder, show me how many decks run Shredder as an all-purpose 4-drop in the first place? Just some versions of Druid? Wherever he shows up, there are either reasons to run Mechs, or reasons you want a residual minion left over. Those decks will keep running Shredder, while everyone else largely doesn't in the first place.
It's mediocre. Which is about what I expect from cards meant to strengthen control.
The Emperor says hi.
Perhaps try Hungry in any deck but Dragon Paladin, and tell me how much better than Shredder it is on average, before citing the one card in the expansion that's good in almost any deck but pure aggro.
Hey OP. Please send me 25 bucks so I can buy the blackrock expansion and be original like you. Thx. I'm stuck with shredders until you do.
1. nothing you said actually argues AGAINST what I brought up. That most people don't compete means that they don't affect the Meta, which is what we are describing. They also would fit in with the majority who never buy the product in the first place. The cycle relates only to the population that will purchase the product at all. The cycle relates more to those who actually do participate in the competition, whether softly (i.e. go up to, say, rank 15 each month) or more aggressively.
What's the big deal? Are you assuming that my post was against such things? It's not. It's informative, not persuasive, thus the opening line saying that it's natural for most people reinventing the wheel or walking along the bleeding edge.
Most people don't craft their own decks. There's nothing wrong with it. It's not something we need to fight against or worry about. It's a natural element of..well.. everything. Myself I probably fit in with the Early majority: I'm no deck crafter or trend setter. I tend to grab the decks just after they reach the meta and tweak it to my own personal desires.
But by how it sounds you aren't actually AGAINST my statment that most people netdeck except a few %. Just that you dislike the graph, though you don't explain why my statement that the meta works similarly, and you believe I'm arguing something I'm not.
True. It's a no brainer for paladin.
1. It's a card for midrange or anti-control decks. The entire dragon line is for when the meta slows down in the upper ranks. I don't think even paladin can last in an aggro mindset since there's not enough anti-aggro to actually use a turn 7 dragon that doesn't affect the board immediately. The good thing is that real aggro is pretty much just face hunter nowadays (yes zoo is back but really, if your primary tools are 4 mana gang boss, 4 mana Void, and 9 mana Mal-Ganas, you're not an aggro deck but a midrange deck). So basically, if less than 50% of your games are face hunter, Paladin dragon may be viable and a card that grants a 1 drop may also be viable.
MAY. I'm just guessing Hungry Dragon will work better than Shredder. I wouldn't be surprised if it failed.
The deck would have to be a midrange or control deck, MAYBE Tempo. not combo or aggro. Thus Rogue and Hunter are out.
Druid would use it. Honestly I never really cared for Shredder in Druid. He's there just to give a 4 drop because a wild growth turn 2 into Pass Turn is horrible. However, a 6 health minion that doesn't die to weapons easily, doesn't lose most of it's attack when it's hit by anything, and can trade with a 5 healther is intriguing.
Shamans can try it. They have enough removal to use it after turn 5 anyway.
And Priest, since they never did have a good 4 drop to play on curve since Shredders never worked well for them and they tend to have a turn 3 minion that can easily eat up a 1 drop.
So them and Paladins, or in other words everyone that's playing midrange or control that's not a warlock.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
From my experience so far, it seems inferior. Most of the time it just dies in one turn, unlike the shredder who leaves behind an annoying minion you have to deal with. It's only ok if you're ahead, but any card is pretty good when ahead. It's just not what shredder is.
T1: zombie chow
T2: minibot
T3: muster/blackwing tech
T4: hungry dragon
T5: dragon consort
T6: coin + ysera
haha this s**t is stupid :D
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -
Or... you know... there's still plenty of people without the wing unlocked?
Crazy right, never thought of that either.
Turn 1 : Dust Devil + coin + Dust Devil
Turn 2 : 12 damage to face
Turn 3 : Flametongue + Rockbiter for overkill
haha this s**t is stupid :D
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
Also, not everyone unlocked BRM. Shocking, i know.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
I know what ur doing, but u have failed, sir, your example is so one very specific scenario, mine is one specific scenario, but one that can alter one or two minions and still have the same super strong curve and overwhelming power. I like it, but i hate it :P Time to play some dragon pally.
- Click Here To Join Us On Discord! -
My example was like yours... a stupid one with a list of cards playing in a specific order. Don't try to blame my example because of the specificness of the plays. It applies for your example as well.
It's the goal of a combo... to be strong... so yeah Dragon Consort turn 5 + coin turn 6 Ysera might happen. Like two Dust Devil...
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.