So there are a lot of streamers out there who aren't half as good as they believe to be. Both on ladder and tournaments.
Specifically referring to Forsen, MaSsan and Amaz.
Before you enter your fanboy rage mode, let me point out that we're talking about skill. Not their ability to deliver entertainment.
Yeah I'd watch Forsen and Amaz over Kolento, Strifecro or Trump(players that bring a lot of accurate constructive commentary and their own viable decks) because most of the time I'm seeking a good laugh rather than in depth development of my knowledge of the game.
That being said, Forsen is dreadful at the game, he doesn't make his own decks, at least not successful ones, since he's not a ''tryhard''. Most of the times he's drunk or high on something, hence he has no idea what he's doing. Simply a pro hearthstone player you shouldn't look up to if you wanna become better at the game.
Amaz literally can't do math, leading to a lot of miscalculated plays. Lately he's been going on a little streak of playing a different deck every day quite inconsistently.
MaSsan just missplays a lot in general and acts awkwardly, uncomfortable to watch.
Well they're better than me as well so i can't comment on how bad they really are but i think you're missing the point here.
People stream for entertainment and not always because they're the best. If they did however want to be absolutely perfect in their plays and train hard, it's unlikely they'll stream at all due to having to interact and be entertaining.
Besides, the most successful streamers aren't necessarily the best players at anything at all.
They are all better than I am so I can't really have a go at them!
Well unless you're a "professíonal" at the game, the standards set are different for you, so of course you can have a go at them!
You don't see fans in any other sports holding their opinions back just because they don't play in a big stadium and make several millions a year, so why should you? Most sports journalists never played their respective game professionally, but they still bring their opinions of players to the table, same goes for art critics.
Just because you aren't good at something, doesn't mean you necessarily can't recognize the capabilities of others within that field.
I do have some names floating around in my head but honestly I don't feel like opening the hate bucket.
There are streamer/entertainer and streamer/pro-gamer. The most successful streamer are not necessary the best players and with a big fan base they have probably fans overrating them. But there is no need for them being any good at the game if they make it either entertaining or informative.
I'll pick one streamer I really love as an example, that's Trump. I don't think he is in the top 20 of HS players, yet he is the most successful streamer and he has every right to be that because he's entertaining, calm, smart and is a great teacher.
So yeah, when we start with underrated streamers I might jump in but a "I don't like X" discussion mostly doesn't get us anywhere.
They are all better than I am so I can't really have a go at them!
Well unless you're a "professíonal" at the game, the standards set are different for you, so of course you can have a go at them!
You don't see fans in any other sports holding their opinions back just because they don't play in a big stadium and make several millions a year, so why should you? Most sports journalists never played their respective game professionally, but they still bring their opinions of players to the table, same goes for art critics.
Just because you aren't good at something, doesn't mean you necessarily can't recognize the capabilities of others within that field.
There's a world of difference between being an art critic and slagging someone off because you think they're over rated.
Amaz can do math. That one case on tournament with atempting to bgh kel thuzad was done quickly, it's more of attention problem, rather than counting skills one.
I think that the overrated streamers skillwise are Gaara, Rdu and Hosty, though the last one has suffered enogh lately :p
I love watching StrifeCro, the guy knows a lot about the game and obviously has a lot to pass to the viewers, he talks the why of every single play he does and overall is pretty nice to watch. I believe amaz is a decent player but I dont really like watching his streams.
I dont like watching kolento because I dont feel like he has much to tell, other than the standard (altho I do peak in sometimes, to check for a possible different meta list).
Other streamers... I dont think theyre good enough, I guess.
Oh yeah, Hotform is a new streamer I like watching a lot, and so is Dog.
What a mean-spirited thread. Just watch who you prefer to watch and don't watch who you don't prefer to watch. Promote the streamers you like. The HS community is big enough for people to have different taste in streamers. There is no need to crap on people that are dedicating their lives and careers to the game and to the community.
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Retired streamer and Hearthstone journalist @Shevvek
If i watch someone that is Kolento, relaxing music, good plays, trying new stuff, rarely overreacting. Sometimes watch JJ102 too.
Forsen, Amaz, Kripp, Trump are overrated for me.
Forsen and Amaz doing everything for their fans (for me most of twitch community, 95% may be, has mental issuses, spaming some bullshits in chat). I understand them - more viewers = more money but i feel how my IQ is dropping down when i watch them.
Kripp disrecpect his opponents but how many big tournaments he won? He is just a casual player with a lot of viewers.
Same with Trump, i think his stream is good for new players because he can give some real advice but for ppl which are in HS from a year, they cant see anything new.
Also i hate when most of streamers talk stuff like "oh soo much skills". Well this is a card game and luck/chance exist. Deal with it.
I've never watched Forsen, but I agree about Amaz and Kripp.
Amaz is a good player, but his style on stream is too hyper for me to watch.
I faced Kripp once in arena before I ever watched him. I won that game and afterwards checked twitch to see if it was him. He was complaining through half the next game about how insane my deck and start was (it really wasn't). He gets very salty about RNG and he is often disrespectful towards his opponents.
I do like Trump. I learned a lot from him when I started and I like his style and demeanor.
"They are all better than me so I can't say" ... what?? lol - Of course you can. You don't have to play pro-sports to have an opinion on teams do you? Same thing here. They are putting themselves in the limelight - so they think they're good enough for you to learn from, and to be entertaining while doing it. Of course you can have a say, even if they're better than you, or whatever ... you can tell who's not all that special as a 'pro'
I agree that forsen isn't amazing as a player. People flock to his stream for the drunken banter I guess. Seen some horrible cack on his stream, like when he sends his minions to other streams to bomb them and it ends up being disgusting bullying. Nothing to do with the game whatsoever. Or he'll chat with random blonde streamers, calling them "woman" and try-harding to appear smooth for the fanboys.
If you're talking simply about the game, and who you might learn most from[or not], because you just know they're very good/not great, or exceptional - very few of those tbh ...
I don't enjoy Trump's stream, he plays mostly other streamer's decks, he likes to think he's much better than he actually is and I always get a feeling he looks down on others. That's just my take, don't really care who loves him. I would certainly not pay to sub.
Amaz just does my head in, if I really wanted to learn from him, I'd be watching on mute, so what's the point? Can't take the shrieking
Kolento is about the best player out there, he may not be wildly entertaining, he can be humorous in his own, sarcy way, but you will learn watching him. Of course he makes everything look so easy, and people watching think they can just grab the deck he's showing and race up the ladder ... not going to happen. He doesn't go as in depth as some others in explaining his plays, you have to really pay attention and watch the game/ignore chat ... which has for some reason become very cancerous lately. It's like, forsen isn't on, let's go troll Kolento's stream ... how interesting their lives must be :/
Reynad is a strange one - when he's on, I'll watch, and I'm torn between whether it's to learn something, or just enjoy saltiness - I think he's very clever, he knows how to lure people in - be the guy everyone loves to hate yet can't resist watching. I love that he takes trolls on, reads out their messages, gives smart responses, openly bans idiots and doesn't hold back when he starts on those stories :D c'mon, that's entertainment. And no matter what anyone says, he's a pretty solid player, when he's paying attention to the actual game.
I couldn't watch the likes of RDU/Xixo/Chakki - they're in a bit of a clique, always riding one another's streams, they all seem to play the same and they're really not very interesting to watch. Same with Firebat. He may be a good player, but he's not fun to watch.
Tidesoftime unfortunately turned into a bit of a disaster. He went all try-hard and tries to be 'cool' on his stream now, and fails. He's a good player, probably was one of the best at one point, but he's slipped down a lot
I agree on the Lea thing ... i don't rate her as a proper HS streamer at all. She's got a very different agenda, she blatantly just uses a popular game to get her 15 minutes ... I really don't get why people watch her either, it's certainly not to learn anything
"They are all better than me so I can't say" ... what?? lol - Of course you can. You don't have to play pro-sports to have an opinion on teams do you? Same thing here. They are putting themselves in the limelight - so they think they're good enough for you to learn from, and to be entertaining while doing it. Of course you can have a say, even if they're better than you, or whatever ... you can tell who's not all that special as a 'pro'.
Well that's, like, just your opinion man.
Like others who have posted in this thread, I think it's dick-ish to put down guys who put themselves out there. Since you've mentioned it though I'll fight my point.
Comparing these streamers to professional athletes is stupid. The difference between me and Lionel Messi is astronomical... If I spent the rest of my life trying to be as good as him at what he does I still don't think I'd come anywhere near him. The difference between me and say, Trump, is that I don't play Hearthstone as much as he does and I don't stream my games... If I did play as much as him and stream my games I'd probably be as good as he is.
This is my main problem with this thread. The people you're sh*ting all over are just regular guys like you, putting themselves out there. You want to have a go at them, feel free, I just think it's a dick move.
"They are all better than me so I can't say" ... what?? lol - Of course you can. You don't have to play pro-sports to have an opinion on teams do you? Same thing here. They are putting themselves in the limelight - so they think they're good enough for you to learn from, and to be entertaining while doing it. Of course you can have a say, even if they're better than you, or whatever ... you can tell who's not all that special as a 'pro'.
Well that's, like, just your opinion man.
Like others who have posted in this thread, I think it's dick-ish to put down guys who put themselves out there. Since you've mentioned it though I'll fight my point.
Comparing these streamers to professional athletes is stupid. The difference between me and Lionel Messi is astronomical... If I spent the rest of my life trying to be as good as him at what he does I still don't think I'd come anywhere near him. The difference between me and say, Trump, is that I don't play Hearthstone as much as he does and I don't stream my games... If I did play as much as him and stream my games I'd probably be as good as he is.
This is my main problem with this thread. The people you're sh*ting all over are just regular guys like you, putting themselves out there. You want to have a go at them, feel free, I just think it's a dick move.
It's not stupid at all! They're getting paid, in some cases very well, and putting themselves up there - to make money - from streaming - publicly - It doesn't matter what your feelings are on the matter, that's just how it is. Get all defensive all you like, I wasn't even aiming that at you, at least 4-5 posters said "Well they're better than me so I can't say" - what a cop out! Either have an opinion, or not! You're well able to opinionate on my opinion ... ;)
They're not regular players when they have 10K+ people watching them play ... don't fool yourself.
Nobody is "sh*ting all over them" - it's honest opinion. I'm sure they wouldn't give a rat's about my opinion also. They get much worse in their own chat every minute.
Tell me how pointing out that forsen is in fact a bully, because we've all seen his actions - is "being a dick"?
On the rest, just mere opinion on their game. SOme of them just aren't as great as they like to imagine.
What a mean-spirited thread. Just watch who you prefer to watch and don't watch who you don't prefer to watch. Promote the streamers you like. The HS community is big enough for people to have different taste in streamers. There is no need to crap on people that are dedicating their lives and careers to the game and to the community.
Well said, this is a mean spirited thread that never should have been made. Also anyone who thinks Amaz is overrated is just ignorant and has not been actually keeping up with the tournament scene. Don't say things if you are just talking out of your ass. He has won major tournaments and had top places in many other prominent tournaments. He's been Rank 1 in ladder and he's easily one of the top 10 players in the world.
I think you need to differentiate between a streamer who is entertaining and a streamer who is really good and you can learn from their plays. Amaz is in my opinion very entertaining. Is he an exceptional player? No. If i want to be better i won't watch his streams. Kripp & Trump i actually like, not to watch their streams but their videos. Can be some nice insights at times.
Hosty... well, no words for players like him!
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So there are a lot of streamers out there who aren't half as good as they believe to be. Both on ladder and tournaments.
Specifically referring to Forsen, MaSsan and Amaz.
Before you enter your fanboy rage mode, let me point out that we're talking about skill. Not their ability to deliver entertainment.
Yeah I'd watch Forsen and Amaz over Kolento, Strifecro or Trump(players that bring a lot of accurate constructive commentary and their own viable decks) because most of the time I'm seeking a good laugh rather than in depth development of my knowledge of the game.
That being said, Forsen is dreadful at the game, he doesn't make his own decks, at least not successful ones, since he's not a ''tryhard''. Most of the times he's drunk or high on something, hence he has no idea what he's doing. Simply a pro hearthstone player you shouldn't look up to if you wanna become better at the game.
Amaz literally can't do math, leading to a lot of miscalculated plays. Lately he's been going on a little streak of playing a different deck every day quite inconsistently.
MaSsan just missplays a lot in general and acts awkwardly, uncomfortable to watch.
What are your picks?
They are all better than I am so I can't really have a go at them!
Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
Well they're better than me as well so i can't comment on how bad they really are but i think you're missing the point here.
People stream for entertainment and not always because they're the best. If they did however want to be absolutely perfect in their plays and train hard, it's unlikely they'll stream at all due to having to interact and be entertaining.
Besides, the most successful streamers aren't necessarily the best players at anything at all.
Well unless you're a "professíonal" at the game, the standards set are different for you, so of course you can have a go at them!
You don't see fans in any other sports holding their opinions back just because they don't play in a big stadium and make several millions a year, so why should you? Most sports journalists never played their respective game professionally, but they still bring their opinions of players to the table, same goes for art critics.
Just because you aren't good at something, doesn't mean you necessarily can't recognize the capabilities of others within that field.
Still better than me so i'll still give them credit.
Maybe the OP should start a stream to put these "overrated" streamers at their place.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
I do have some names floating around in my head but honestly I don't feel like opening the hate bucket.
There are streamer/entertainer and streamer/pro-gamer. The most successful streamer are not necessary the best players and with a big fan base they have probably fans overrating them. But there is no need for them being any good at the game if they make it either entertaining or informative.
I'll pick one streamer I really love as an example, that's Trump. I don't think he is in the top 20 of HS players, yet he is the most successful streamer and he has every right to be that because he's entertaining, calm, smart and is a great teacher.
So yeah, when we start with underrated streamers I might jump in but a "I don't like X" discussion mostly doesn't get us anywhere.
Forsen is hilarious, i don't even care how good he is.
420 NA User.
There's a world of difference between being an art critic and slagging someone off because you think they're over rated.
Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
I uh...only watch Kripp because he seems to be the only one on when I am fumbling around Twitch.
Amaz can do math. That one case on tournament with atempting to bgh kel thuzad was done quickly, it's more of attention problem, rather than counting skills one.
I think that the overrated streamers skillwise are Gaara, Rdu and Hosty, though the last one has suffered enogh lately :p
"The light shall burn you!" - heals face.
I love watching StrifeCro, the guy knows a lot about the game and obviously has a lot to pass to the viewers, he talks the why of every single play he does and overall is pretty nice to watch. I believe amaz is a decent player but I dont really like watching his streams.
I dont like watching kolento because I dont feel like he has much to tell, other than the standard (altho I do peak in sometimes, to check for a possible different meta list).
Other streamers... I dont think theyre good enough, I guess.
Oh yeah, Hotform is a new streamer I like watching a lot, and so is Dog.
Retired Hearthstone Columnist
F O R S E N B O Y S M8S
What a mean-spirited thread. Just watch who you prefer to watch and don't watch who you don't prefer to watch. Promote the streamers you like. The HS community is big enough for people to have different taste in streamers. There is no need to crap on people that are dedicating their lives and careers to the game and to the community.
Retired streamer and Hearthstone journalist @Shevvek
I've never watched Forsen, but I agree about Amaz and Kripp.
Amaz is a good player, but his style on stream is too hyper for me to watch.
I faced Kripp once in arena before I ever watched him. I won that game and afterwards checked twitch to see if it was him. He was complaining through half the next game about how insane my deck and start was (it really wasn't). He gets very salty about RNG and he is often disrespectful towards his opponents.
I do like Trump. I learned a lot from him when I started and I like his style and demeanor.
"They are all better than me so I can't say" ... what?? lol - Of course you can. You don't have to play pro-sports to have an opinion on teams do you? Same thing here. They are putting themselves in the limelight - so they think they're good enough for you to learn from, and to be entertaining while doing it. Of course you can have a say, even if they're better than you, or whatever ... you can tell who's not all that special as a 'pro'
I agree that forsen isn't amazing as a player. People flock to his stream for the drunken banter I guess. Seen some horrible cack on his stream, like when he sends his minions to other streams to bomb them and it ends up being disgusting bullying. Nothing to do with the game whatsoever. Or he'll chat with random blonde streamers, calling them "woman" and try-harding to appear smooth for the fanboys.
If you're talking simply about the game, and who you might learn most from[or not], because you just know they're very good/not great, or exceptional - very few of those tbh ...
I don't enjoy Trump's stream, he plays mostly other streamer's decks, he likes to think he's much better than he actually is and I always get a feeling he looks down on others. That's just my take, don't really care who loves him. I would certainly not pay to sub.
Amaz just does my head in, if I really wanted to learn from him, I'd be watching on mute, so what's the point? Can't take the shrieking
Kolento is about the best player out there, he may not be wildly entertaining, he can be humorous in his own, sarcy way, but you will learn watching him. Of course he makes everything look so easy, and people watching think they can just grab the deck he's showing and race up the ladder ... not going to happen. He doesn't go as in depth as some others in explaining his plays, you have to really pay attention and watch the game/ignore chat ... which has for some reason become very cancerous lately. It's like, forsen isn't on, let's go troll Kolento's stream ... how interesting their lives must be :/
Reynad is a strange one - when he's on, I'll watch, and I'm torn between whether it's to learn something, or just enjoy saltiness - I think he's very clever, he knows how to lure people in - be the guy everyone loves to hate yet can't resist watching. I love that he takes trolls on, reads out their messages, gives smart responses, openly bans idiots and doesn't hold back when he starts on those stories :D c'mon, that's entertainment. And no matter what anyone says, he's a pretty solid player, when he's paying attention to the actual game.
I couldn't watch the likes of RDU/Xixo/Chakki - they're in a bit of a clique, always riding one another's streams, they all seem to play the same and they're really not very interesting to watch. Same with Firebat. He may be a good player, but he's not fun to watch.
Tidesoftime unfortunately turned into a bit of a disaster. He went all try-hard and tries to be 'cool' on his stream now, and fails. He's a good player, probably was one of the best at one point, but he's slipped down a lot
I agree on the Lea thing ... i don't rate her as a proper HS streamer at all. She's got a very different agenda, she blatantly just uses a popular game to get her 15 minutes ... I really don't get why people watch her either, it's certainly not to learn anything
Well that's, like, just your opinion man.
Like others who have posted in this thread, I think it's dick-ish to put down guys who put themselves out there. Since you've mentioned it though I'll fight my point.
Comparing these streamers to professional athletes is stupid. The difference between me and Lionel Messi is astronomical... If I spent the rest of my life trying to be as good as him at what he does I still don't think I'd come anywhere near him. The difference between me and say, Trump, is that I don't play Hearthstone as much as he does and I don't stream my games... If I did play as much as him and stream my games I'd probably be as good as he is.
This is my main problem with this thread. The people you're sh*ting all over are just regular guys like you, putting themselves out there. You want to have a go at them, feel free, I just think it's a dick move.
Unbowed. Unbent. Unbroken.
It's not stupid at all! They're getting paid, in some cases very well, and putting themselves up there - to make money - from streaming - publicly - It doesn't matter what your feelings are on the matter, that's just how it is. Get all defensive all you like, I wasn't even aiming that at you, at least 4-5 posters said "Well they're better than me so I can't say" - what a cop out! Either have an opinion, or not! You're well able to opinionate on my opinion ... ;)
They're not regular players when they have 10K+ people watching them play ... don't fool yourself.
Nobody is "sh*ting all over them" - it's honest opinion. I'm sure they wouldn't give a rat's about my opinion also. They get much worse in their own chat every minute.
Tell me how pointing out that forsen is in fact a bully, because we've all seen his actions - is "being a dick"?
On the rest, just mere opinion on their game. SOme of them just aren't as great as they like to imagine.
Well said, this is a mean spirited thread that never should have been made. Also anyone who thinks Amaz is overrated is just ignorant and has not been actually keeping up with the tournament scene. Don't say things if you are just talking out of your ass. He has won major tournaments and had top places in many other prominent tournaments. He's been Rank 1 in ladder and he's easily one of the top 10 players in the world.
I think you need to differentiate between a streamer who is entertaining and a streamer who is really good and you can learn from their plays. Amaz is in my opinion very entertaining. Is he an exceptional player? No. If i want to be better i won't watch his streams. Kripp & Trump i actually like, not to watch their streams but their videos. Can be some nice insights at times.
Hosty... well, no words for players like him!