Hearthpwn

We are now at the point when you can’t play any control deck without this card both standard and wild otherwise you will lose versus any other control deck.

If you HAVE to include a card in your deck that’s already a sign that here is a problem. It means that card makes you immeasurably stronger than your opponent. 

Not to mention that certain interactions are totally idiotic, for example warlocks being able to play wheel without any consequences. 

I would definitely nerf that endless effect somehow. 

Yeah, when I saw that card I was like: "Is this really the power level we're at?" Because I imagine most people would probably even say like he's "too slow" and I mean that's just... You can literally get an infinite deck of larger and larger Demons, a win-condition on its own without any setup or anything and it's not even good enough for 2024 Hearthstone? Just compare that to 2014 Dr. Boom that for the same Mana and stats just summoned two 1/1 Boom Bots that dealt a little bit of damage on death. And to top it of it was considered OP at the time. What in the World has Hearthstone become?

To be honest with that card I somewhat gave up on Hearthstone. It's pretty clear now that they ideally want fast games that end before turn 7 or a little bit after. That way this kind of power level at that point in the game makes sense again. Now you might wonder how to even get this card by turn 7 consistently. But the trick is to not rely on just one crazy strong card. There are various cards with about that power level that each do something a little different and you have them all in the deck. For example I made a thematic Demonlock with Jaraxxus, Sargeras, and Kil'jaedan. Yeah, I actually played those because I really liked the idea of a cool Demonlock deck. But indeed it wasn't really that much fun to me.

It's not like those cards are necessarily too powerful in comparison to other decks and strategies out it's just unfun. By about turn 7 the game basically turn into "Who has drawn their OP card and get the game to the next level?" And of course you would play that crazy strong card regardless and not hold back and wait for the opponent to make the first move. But if the other player can't mirror that power spike in their own way the game just ends in a few turns often. So yes, sometimes the game can still stay interesting and all but also often they just end. So that's the reason I don't like those cards. They often make the games less fun. And at least for me I can also say that as the player playing those type of cards.

The worst thing is really that those type of cards have basically become a normality. Already in the past when I said similar stuff about Lor'themar most people I played with usually said like "It's not even a good card.", "It's too slow", etc. So even when I think about friendly games it becomes harder and harder to find people. I would have to say all those unfun cards and then they would also need to agree. It's just like I said before: They really want you to play a certain way. Most likely it's even coming from the player base itself. I imagine most players actually like it more this way.

Honestly I'm not even sure how you could fix it for people like me that like it a bit different, not so crazy insane fast. Some more social features to better meet other players would be a good start. But what did they do instead? Even remove the feature with the most social potential: Fireside Gatherings. Imagine exactly that but just everything online. I'm sure it would be possible. But alas it seems like this is not how they want this game to evolve.

But there's actually one thing I'm still looking forward to: Undergrounds Arena. That sounds like it could be fun and much more to my liking. Normal Arena was often like too "dull" and "static" for me. But if it actually feels a bit like Duels but without the Constructed element (so more like actual "Adventure but Multiplayer") I think I might enjoy that.

In a meta where the average game is over by turn 6, kiljaeden is not a problem.

I think +1+1 instead of 2 would be a good place to start a nerf. Minions can get strong in a couple turns, and if you have draw after he is played it’s a big swing but the card is not meta defining. I have beaten decks that have had him down for a couple turns with burn but i might have been lucky. 

I think it could stay +2 but only give one minion per turn. It would make draw cards dead after played, negate the always OP lock hero power and slow down the onslaught of buffed demons (which have a pretty good pool already).

The fact that it totally removes bombs, plagues and 100% negates fatigue...I don't think 1 card per turn is unreasonable...

It is strong but not OP. As control vs aggro u dont use it. vs control u try to guess the best time to use him, since there are might me useful cards in your deck that you want to draw before demolishing it

bruh

I dont have a problem with him in standard,  but in arena? Every effect that generates a random demon is 5 times more powerful than it used to be, I cant count how many times someone got him out of the 3 mana 4/2 guy, and it just made me lose 2 games in a row to this exact same scenario, what are the odds?

It's not even that strong. It's just lame that it allows to avoid fatigue. Fatigue eas supposed to punish decks which just stall and do nothing for the game. Endless stalling & removing didn't work before, since you just lost for doing nothing. Now that you can generate 100 armor and ramp up to 16 mana it's just stupid.

I agree its too strong. Games that last long enough for it I mean. These aggro comments wouldn't understand anything past turn 6. There needs to be some sort of penalty or risk to this card. Make them take the fatigue damage anyways hell I don't know.

7 mana 7/7 that takes 3 turns to become good even then if you’re up against a decent deck they’re still probably ahead of you. The card is absolutely fine. This idea that if you ‘have’ to run a good then it’s a problem is utterly ridiculous. You will always run the best cards available to you and sometimes that comes in the form of neutrals. The issue you probably have is wins where KJ is prevalent look crazy but that was/is the case with Lorthemar. It’s a freaking cool affect and it is very true to him lore wise. We will never exist in a meta where he is a power outlier. Even Blood Unholy DK is useless with 8 hands + KJ and that is turboing.

The penalty is you play a 7 mana 7/7 that gives you trash for 3 turns. If your opponent cannot secure their win condition in that time it is just sitting there doing nothing until fatigue then I’m freaking glad KJ exists. We do not want HS to be 30 minute matches it would get very boring very quickly and I am a huge control player. But KJ is an option for those few games that do. 

No that’s not how people use it. It is never the last resort. Good players play it only when they have other strong cards in hand so that they can bridge over the first turns. After that their minions are huge enough to seal it

This card is also a huge problem in the arena. You barely can't win vs. a deck with this card.

This card is the perfect example for how lame the Devs are by now. We have some cards in Hearthstone, that will win a game alone.
Same in Battlegrounds. There are some minions you have to own. If you are lucky to have them, you will be top 3, if you don't have them, you will die very quick.

So, it's not about playing anymore, it's more abouting beeing lucky to have that special card in your deck.

it's not a problem in standard. i can see it being a problem in arena sure. but like others have pointed out games are over by turn 7-8 and if you do get a control player throwing down kilj early i usually beat them as they run out of steam or have no removal. 

now let's talk about real problems like ele mage, rogue, and anything otk mass card draw 

Make him cost 10, and only gain +1/+1 each turn.

Quote from popnutshanty >>

now let's talk about real problems like ele mage, rogue, and anything otk mass card draw 

 The problem is the game itself, its mechanics and bad game design.
* 0-cost minions and spells
* too extreme manacheating
* endless carddraw without running out of cards
* way too much discover
* I-win-button cards
* make legendary a once per game opportunity!

It is no fun to play vs an enemy who plays his whole deck in 2-3 rounde, cheats out a 10 mana cost minion on turn 3-4, OTKs you on turn 4-5, plays endless extra rounds or endless ice blocks ...

In arena hes pretty busted...overall I think hes fine. Fuck fatigue decks.

I love how poeple complain about fringe cards they meet 1/50 games played by decks that barely need them.