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I wanted to open up a discussion about Quasar and the Rogue deck associated with it.
Coin-Flip Pattern
Let me start by saying that I don't think the deck is a problem in terms of win rate. The issue isn't with its power level but rather with how it creates what is essentially a coin-flip pattern. There isn't much interaction between players during the match. The Rogue tries to cast Quasar as soon as possible, then it just delves into a coin-flip game where either Asteroids hit your minions or they don’t, or the Rogue’s card draw fizzles by chance.
In Standard Ranked, it’s a minor inconvenience while climbing ranks. But for Casual or Trash Legend matches, it’s simply not fun. As I mentioned, the deck is already a coin flip; if I’m playing casually and I know it’s the Quasar Rogue deck, I just concede since I don’t really care about winning the coin flip. Did any of us have fun when I concede? I don’t really know.
The Uninteractive Nature of the Deck
As the Rogue’s opponent, you have some choices for interaction through these tech cards:
However, these cards are either incredibly niche or falling out of favor.
For class-specific counters or cards that allow for interaction, Death Knight might be the best option, with cards like:
Paladins technically have Lumia, but it’s easy for the Rogue to kill it before it deals any damage to face—unless a rogue Asteroid happens to hit face first. Mages have King Tide, and Hunters have Specimen Claw.
Finally, every class has access to general counters like killing the Rogue before Quasar is cast or stacking armor and effective health (or minions to block Asteroids) beyond the deck’s damage cap. The problem with these approaches, again, is the lack of interaction: the opponent is doing their own thing, and the Rogue is doing theirs. It might as well be a single-player game at this point.
What Can Be Done to Fix the Issues with the Quasar Deck?
I don’t believe that increasing Quasar’s mana cost would accomplish much. Slow decks would still end up playing a coin-flip match. I also don’t believe Quasar should be fundamentally changed, so “but not less than (1)” isn’t a viable option here.
Increasing Ethereal Oracle’s mana cost by 1 is probably the direction Blizzard will go. It will no longer be 0 mana post-Quasar, and it will add more inconsistencies to the deck, ultimately pushing a significant number of players away from it. Does this address the problem with the deck? Not really.
Unfortunately, to truly fix the problems with the deck, some of the spells that Rogues use to draw or to go face need to rotate out. One potential target is Oh, Manager!, but I don’t think they’ll change it to hit minions only, as it’s part of other decks as well. The other potential target is Tar Slick.
Conclusion
In the end, the core issue with the Quasar Rogue deck seems to be less about win rate and more about the frustrating lack of interaction and reliance on a coin-flip dynamic. While some small changes could make the deck less consistent, they don’t necessarily address the gameplay experience that leaves many players feeling like they're in a single-player match. So, what do you all think?
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I don't think trying to change multiple cards in the deck rather than quasar itself is the solution. These cards were fine before, quasar is the singular card that turns Rogue's insane card draw redundancy into something broken.
I don't understand why you are against the "less than (1)" change. Rogue can play their ENTIRE DECK for no mana after quasar is cast, and unless you want to nerf 10 different card draw cards, quasar is always going to be the problem. It doesn't matter if the deck kills you through asteroids or through spell damage face spells, the card is going to limit design space for the forseeable future with more and more OTK possibilities until quasar itself changes.
I'd be fine with even buffing quasar to 4-5 mana if the less than (1) change went through.
I am against "but not less than (1)" because I want to see Quasar included in a non-otk oriented decks in the future. I don't think it is fair to fundamentally change the design of the card because of an inconsistent deck that wins on a coin flip.
As I said, Rogues have access to multiple spells that draw cards and can target face for damage. They will eventually rotate out. I am only bringing the possibility of changing them for discussion but I think it is highly unlikely that they are touched.
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Nothing to discuss! The card needs a nerf. Some will cry but the majority will be happy :-)
Sure. I am all down for a nerf, after the 10 decks above it has been nerfed as well. Especially Shaman, Mage, DK and Paladin. Rogue got 40% winrate at the bottom of the barrel, yet it's the class most people complain about. Nerds and low IQ individuals hate skill ceiling decks that can win against their autopilot Paladin deck, if they play optimal.
Saying "this card will be fine because draw cards will rotate" is high end copium. Firstly, new cards will likely be printed that make rogue draw. Secondly, this type of card will always only be played in otk or tempo decks. Just makes no sense in other decks.
I don't think it's realistic to expect quasar to not lead to otks in the current form. The angle of the card is "you can draw and play every card in your deck very fast." Having the cards in your deck add up to 30 damage just makes sense. I don't think we can wait for them to rotate, either. Rogue's class identity isn't being weak at direct damage. Even if we get rid of all the direct burn spells, there'd still be weapon buffs and Sonya combos for example.
I can see the vision of a quasar that's a much more neutral game piece, but I think the base design is way too feast or famine. Furthermore, I suspect it's the type of card that Blizzard accidentally prints support for and keeps popping up similar to The Caverns Below. Any card draw, a location tutor, spell tutors, any form of delayed card draw, and any shuffle mechanic might accidentally break the card.
I think one thing that might work is lowering the extremes. For example, a quasar that costs less and discounts less, but draws two cards after it shuffles. Less conducive to chaining infinite card draw and drawing your whole deck instantly, but still does some of that and doesn't instantly lose the game in decks not built for it.
Current Quasar Rogue is technically "fine" at the moment in terms of winrate. What I am saying going to be fine once some cards rotate out is the coinflip pattern will be less noticeable if not impossible.
New cards can be printed but they aren't always going to be plain "draw X cards". Look at Need for Greed for example, it set its cost to 3 mana once drawn so it is unaffected by Quasar. Raiding Party tutors for Pirates. Likewise, newer face damage dealing spells can be designed to require interaction. For example, Falling Stalactite requiring you to target a minion to deal damage to face.
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Why do you want the card to be something it's not? It's an entirely combo setup based card, no control or value deck is going to run a card that says "discard your hand". It's really not an inspiring card for anything else and only lends itself to toxic, mass mana cheating gameplay.
Guess this is an OTK setup card then Astral Communion.
Why do YOU want me to use the card your way? I don’t understand. You see only OTK, I see building a control deck or anything else and having fun doing so.
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I also don't think you can build a control deck around Quasar, control deck accumulates resources, not discards them entirely.
So, there will always be frustration about high-roll decks that can kill you turn 4-5. But you can be killed turn 4-5 with Nature Shaman today if they're lucky. But both decks are unreliable, even Norwis doesn't play Nature Shaman these days. Quasar Rogue is more a one trick pony where Nature Shaman can try to adapt and play more of a control game, but Quasar Rogue is more consistent than Nature Shaman. Still there is reason why if you look at Quasar Rogue popularity it spikes at 10's and 5's, from Silver to Diamond and the last spike is at Legend. What it shows? There are people who want to play it and make it work. And they fail. And this for me means Quasar Rogue is in a good spot and nothing needs to be changed about it.
This card makes no sense in control. You wouldn't play this in control warrior. This card only works with two preconditions:
1. Lots of card draw.
2. Sacrificing a turn for lots of tempo or otk later. Outside of building massive boards or preparing OTKs, this card doesn't do anything.
It's too expensive for proper tempo as it is. If you want it in a tempo deck, I would think that the suggestion of making it a 4/5 cost that can't go below 1 would actually help :)
Astral Communion is a meme highroll card - you play it, pray to god your next 1-2 topdecks break the game or you lose. You have a laugh at how hillarious the game was, then you move onto the next. I'm confused why you're trying to imagine communion as something viable in any other context and comparing it to a total hand discard that actually DOES break the game. Communion isn't mana cheating your WHOLE DECK by 3 and warping the entire match, nor did it see any play outside of trolden shorts. The cards aren't comparable.
Another card more comparable to quasar that DID get banned was Tome Tampering. The card was trash by itself, but the interaction with Malchezaar's Imp was broken because you got to draw a new hand of insanely mana cheated cards. Quasar is likely more busted than this because Quick Pick/Knicknack Shack allow draw on the same turn as it is played, while discounting the whole deck, not just what was shuffled.
Tome Tampering and Malchezaar’s Imp was always a wild combo. This discussion is about standard rotation.
Look, I don’t know why are you trying to drive the point that Quasar can never be anything but a Tempo or OTK tool. It isn’t really your call to decide that.
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..you literally bought up astral communion as a point of discussion? Which is a wild card?
just play ship druid, you will have like 65 health by turn 6.
i Would increase Quasar to 8 and Oracle to 4 mana, that would kill the deck and oracle is clearly busted.
Either not less than (1) or just do a page one rewrite of the entire card. This type of gameplay is just not fun. I don't care if its a low win rate card... it could be a 10% win rate card, and it still should never have been printed. These types of gameplay interactions are awful.
Seems ok.
armor destroys this deck and I imagine blood dk. they run out of burn