Well, I can't remember when I last saw Warrior, it's only Shamans, Paladins and Druids on EU. In smaller numbers DK's, DH's, Rogues and Elemental Mages. That's all.
Ok, when I started playing Norwis Shaman I saw almost only Warriors, so it was only a matter of what I was playing, not the real meta image.
Putting it simply, the game itself as a whole is broken. There are a number of mechanics that work together to make problimatic board states and/or combos that were clearly not intentional. IMO even though Witchwood was one of the weakest expansions, Introducing Rush completely shifted the pace of the game and now half of every set is saturated with rush minions or similar tempo (for the cards that see play). Reborn and Ressurect effects are not working properly with the invisible graveyard of minions that have died, and I'd say unless a minion has Battlecry, Rush, or some Legendary effect, it doesn't see much play.
Lastly, cost reduction effects always find a a way to get out of hand, whether it's Sorcerer's Apprentice x4 and Antonidas, Shadowstep, or the new Concierge. I want to see some massive 'fixes' before I launch this game ever again
That Is actualy interesting idea with some truth inside. Even though Rush Is great keyworld, IT allows control decks to run Rush instead classic Spell removals, changing game to tempo contest, instead of resource much as was in past. Like would you use some Rush minion, which in case of overkill leave body behind or costly Spell which kills minion three Times. But i dont think IT Is such Simple Reason. Access to easy Draw does provide enough Reason to not save answer for later As well... And to me most important powercreep, where you can't delay answering one turn for better value, otherwise you get rolled over.
And let's also hope they don't forget about Horizon's Edge. That card just has too much damage for a 4 mana card, it's way overtuned. And I'm not calling to kill the card, just taking off 1 durability would be my choice.
But have they said when to expect nerfs? I would have thought it would have been before now
This is a quote from the 29.6.2 patch notes:
As a note, we want to let that early post-expansion meta develop a bit before we step in, so our next major balance pass is scheduled for slightly later than the last few (about two weeks after expansion launch instead of about 10 days).
I see a lot of suggestions I genuinely disagree with:
Hydration station: Genuinely, I think these lategame warrior/druid decks aren't very good. They preform decent right now, because the meta hasn't settled - but there are so many decks out there that genuinely can consistently kill these control decks before they become a problem. I can't speak much for aggro right now (Though pirate decks or elemental decks seem pretty decent right now) but the tempo(y) OTK decks I've been playing (Mostly druid) has nearly a 100% win rate against all of these control decks I've been seeing, and they fair pretty decent against aggro too - I see control decks as pretty weak right now, at least in comparison to the top of the meta. (That said, I do like the idea of changing it to "3 different taunt minions" just because I think that would make the meta more diverse and fun.)
Zilliax is fine right now imo - if you're playing aggro and can't win before Zilliax comes down, he's the punish for that - and that's healthy, I think that's fine. If you're not aggro and struggle to beat these Zilliax/hydration station decks, you need a suitable OTK or value to overcome that - and that's also fine - The cards are not overwhelming OP relative to other cards in the meta. (Granted, I will say that the board-state hasn't been the most relevant for the last couple metas, and that's perhaps not the most healthy thing - but Zilliax is only a small part of that problem.)
Lamplighter I actually agree with being nerfed slightly, I don't think it's 'that' far off from being balanced, but the high-roll potential, especially in rogue is too much. I think moving it to 4 mana, even with a buff to the stats, would be fine.
Concierge and Seabreeze Chalice - Personally I don't think Concierge is that great - it does make certain combos stronger, but it does take up a slot in your deck/hand, and is otherwise useless outside of the OTK/combo - so you kinda have to either highroll or let the game last a while, which makes her kinda slow. That said, as the meta settles and speeds up, I don't think she'll be as common to see. The OTK druid deck I've been playing actually cuts the card, in favor for more early game tempo/survivability (Though I still go for kills by turn 6-8 ideally) Seabreeze, though, is DEFFINETLY too strong, imo. If it got nerfed to "2 mana deal 3-4" I still think it would be very playable - presently I've got like a 80+% win rate with my tempo-ish OTK druid in legend, after the nerf I bet it would still be well over 50%.
New Heights - Odd to me seeing this mentioned in this thread. - It's not much different than Splish-Splash Whelp - except the whelp plays for tempo VS New Heights Control - and objectively Tempo is more important than control. The only thing that makes New Heights better than the Whelp in this meta is the combo potential, like with Mistah, or discounted with Lifebinder's gift - whereas whelp is required to be played with dragons (Which will probably fall off a bit given some time) - unless you're in a control VS control game, that extra max mana should not matter much. (In aggro VS control, if you get that late in the game, you've probably lost regardless of the extra mana.) If wild growth was available in this meta, I'd probably play it over new heights in most decks.
Hydration station/Ziliax aren't actually the problems, the issue is actually with the two cards that can cheat them into play (the 5 mana one that deals 5, and the 2 mana one that spends armor, both of which get it down turn 5). It's fine for a deck to be dominant late game, as long as it's weaker earlier on. I get that those two cards are the eye catchy ones, so people blame them, but they aren't the problems really, just a side effect of having good tools to cheat things in early.
I agree Lamplighter is too good by a little bit right now. It would probably be fine at 4 mana.
And new heights I understand why people feel that way, but I don't agree with them. The games where the extra end game mana is relevant, realistically I had already pretty much lost, although I think people feel it more strongly as being powerful compared to whelp, because warrior can't use whelp, so heights has the sin of being warrior ramp, and people feel it much more there to help warrior get to that late game. (Turn 3 new lights turn 4 chem spill, is a really good curve, for example)
Also, to the guy who keeps bringing up horizons edge, it has to do more damage than a spell of the same cost, because it's harder to use. It really isn't broken, having played both against and with it. Compared to spells, locations have to offer just a little bit more value, in exchange for taking longer to get that value out.
I see a lot of suggestions I genuinely disagree with:
Hydration station: Genuinely, I think these lategame warrior/druid decks aren't very good. They preform decent right now, because the meta hasn't settled - but there are so many decks out there that genuinely can consistently kill these control decks before they become a problem. I can't speak much for aggro right now (Though pirate decks or elemental decks seem pretty decent right now) but the tempo(y) OTK decks I've been playing (Mostly druid) has nearly a 100% win rate against all of these control decks I've been seeing, and they fair pretty decent against aggro too - I see control decks as pretty weak right now, at least in comparison to the top of the meta. (That said, I do like the idea of changing it to "3 different taunt minions" just because I think that would make the meta more diverse and fun.)
Zilliax is fine right now imo - if you're playing aggro and can't win before Zilliax comes down, he's the punish for that - and that's healthy, I think that's fine. If you're not aggro and struggle to beat these Zilliax/hydration station decks, you need a suitable OTK or value to overcome that - and that's also fine - The cards are not overwhelming OP relative to other cards in the meta. (Granted, I will say that the board-state hasn't been the most relevant for the last couple metas, and that's perhaps not the most healthy thing - but Zilliax is only a small part of that problem.)
Lamplighter I actually agree with being nerfed slightly, I don't think it's 'that' far off from being balanced, but the high-roll potential, especially in rogue is too much. I think moving it to 4 mana, even with a buff to the stats, would be fine.
Concierge and Seabreeze Chalice - Personally I don't think Concierge is that great - it does make certain combos stronger, but it does take up a slot in your deck/hand, and is otherwise useless outside of the OTK/combo - so you kinda have to either highroll or let the game last a while, which makes her kinda slow. That said, as the meta settles and speeds up, I don't think she'll be as common to see. The OTK druid deck I've been playing actually cuts the card, in favor for more early game tempo/survivability (Though I still go for kills by turn 6-8 ideally) Seabreeze, though, is DEFFINETLY too strong, imo. If it got nerfed to "2 mana deal 3-4" I still think it would be very playable - presently I've got like a 80+% win rate with my tempo-ish OTK druid in legend, after the nerf I bet it would still be well over 50%.
New Heights - Odd to me seeing this mentioned in this thread. - It's not much different than Splish-Splash Whelp - except the whelp plays for tempo VS New Heights Control - and objectively Tempo is more important than control. The only thing that makes New Heights better than the Whelp in this meta is the combo potential, like with Mistah, or discounted with Lifebinder's gift - whereas whelp is required to be played with dragons (Which will probably fall off a bit given some time) - unless you're in a control VS control game, that extra max mana should not matter much. (In aggro VS control, if you get that late in the game, you've probably lost regardless of the extra mana.) If wild growth was available in this meta, I'd probably play it over new heights in most decks.
Hydration station/Ziliax aren't actually the problems, the issue is actually with the two cards that can cheat them into play (the 5 mana one that deals 5, and the 2 mana one that spends armor, both of which get it down turn 5). It's fine for a deck to be dominant late game, as long as it's weaker earlier on. I get that those two cards are the eye catchy ones, so people blame them, but they aren't the problems really, just a side effect of having good tools to cheat things in early.
I agree Lamplighter is too good by a little bit right now. It would probably be fine at 4 mana.
And new heights I understand why people feel that way, but I don't agree with them. The games where the extra end game mana is relevant, realistically I had already pretty much lost, although I think people feel it more strongly as being powerful compared to whelp, because warrior can't use whelp, so heights has the sin of being warrior ramp, and people feel it much more there to help warrior get to that late game. (Turn 3 new lights turn 4 chem spill, is a really good curve, for example)
Also, to the guy who keeps bringing up horizons edge, it has to do more damage than a spell of the same cost, because it's harder to use. It really isn't broken, having played both against and with it. Compared to spells, locations have to offer just a little bit more value, in exchange for taking longer to get that value out.
I understand your view, but i think IT Is important what Is manacheated... So i see problem in Zilliax, which stabilize both board And health situation, while settings for ultimate value with ressurection. I am ok with manacheat being impactful, but not game deciding.
Lamplighter going into 4 does change little to nothimg, problem Is battlecry itself And i dont think mana And Stats can be nerfed to point where IT Will have impact, without killing that card. Adjustments to battlecry does Feels like better choice about new high... IT Is powercreep, but currently DK Is not that strong. So IT Is ok for Now, but definitely something to be watched And maybe Nerf before next expansion.
Ok, when I started playing Norwis Shaman I saw almost only Warriors, so it was only a matter of what I was playing, not the real meta image.
Putting it simply, the game itself as a whole is broken. There are a number of mechanics that work together to make problimatic board states and/or combos that were clearly not intentional. IMO even though Witchwood was one of the weakest expansions, Introducing Rush completely shifted the pace of the game and now half of every set is saturated with rush minions or similar tempo (for the cards that see play). Reborn and Ressurect effects are not working properly with the invisible graveyard of minions that have died, and I'd say unless a minion has Battlecry, Rush, or some Legendary effect, it doesn't see much play.
Lastly, cost reduction effects always find a a way to get out of hand, whether it's Sorcerer's Apprentice x4 and Antonidas, Shadowstep, or the new Concierge. I want to see some massive 'fixes' before I launch this game ever again
This space is intentionally blank.
That Is actualy interesting idea with some truth inside. Even though Rush Is great keyworld, IT allows control decks to run Rush instead classic Spell removals, changing game to tempo contest, instead of resource much as was in past. Like would you use some Rush minion, which in case of overkill leave body behind or costly Spell which kills minion three Times. But i dont think IT Is such Simple Reason. Access to easy Draw does provide enough Reason to not save answer for later As well... And to me most important powercreep, where you can't delay answering one turn for better value, otherwise you get rolled over.
But have they said when to expect nerfs? I would have thought it would have been before now
Let's hope they come soon.
And let's also hope they don't forget about Horizon's Edge. That card just has too much damage for a 4 mana card, it's way overtuned. And I'm not calling to kill the card, just taking off 1 durability would be my choice.
This is a quote from the 29.6.2 patch notes:
Hydration station/Ziliax aren't actually the problems, the issue is actually with the two cards that can cheat them into play (the 5 mana one that deals 5, and the 2 mana one that spends armor, both of which get it down turn 5). It's fine for a deck to be dominant late game, as long as it's weaker earlier on. I get that those two cards are the eye catchy ones, so people blame them, but they aren't the problems really, just a side effect of having good tools to cheat things in early.
I agree Lamplighter is too good by a little bit right now. It would probably be fine at 4 mana.
And new heights I understand why people feel that way, but I don't agree with them. The games where the extra end game mana is relevant, realistically I had already pretty much lost, although I think people feel it more strongly as being powerful compared to whelp, because warrior can't use whelp, so heights has the sin of being warrior ramp, and people feel it much more there to help warrior get to that late game. (Turn 3 new lights turn 4 chem spill, is a really good curve, for example)
Also, to the guy who keeps bringing up horizons edge, it has to do more damage than a spell of the same cost, because it's harder to use. It really isn't broken, having played both against and with it. Compared to spells, locations have to offer just a little bit more value, in exchange for taking longer to get that value out.
I understand your view, but i think IT Is important what Is manacheated... So i see problem in Zilliax, which stabilize both board And health situation, while settings for ultimate value with ressurection. I am ok with manacheat being impactful, but not game deciding.
Lamplighter going into 4 does change little to nothimg, problem Is battlecry itself And i dont think mana And Stats can be nerfed to point where IT Will have impact, without killing that card. Adjustments to battlecry does Feels like better choice about new high... IT Is powercreep, but currently DK Is not that strong. So IT Is ok for Now, but definitely something to be watched And maybe Nerf before next expansion.