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All I see in my server are Warriors it's such a slog to play against I would rather play against fellow aggro players at least in that regard we win fast lose fast. I rarely see Pally or Shaman in Asia when in HS Replay they are supposed to be the two strongest classes in Standard.
So please Blizzard just nerf Zilliax 3000 and Hydration station I am sick and tired of facing Warrior!
Ok, i take back things about hillarious, but what does work fór you does not needs to work for other.
To hs... Uhm, ehmm, actualy fair point, IT Is not Common, but IT Is still occasionaly happening And i agree IT does not Feels good, even if IT does not have such high impact on winrate, then even with best Luck on your side you Felt without any power Is not healthy... But why Nerf seabreeze, when IT Is possible only because coerce manacheat? Better Nerf coerce to first card from different class cost 1 LESS. Seabreeze Is fair card, which needs lot of support to be strong.
Well, I can't remember when I last saw Warrior, it's only Shamans, Paladins and Druids on EU. In smaller numbers DK's, DH's, Rogues and Elemental Mages. That's all.
People keep complaining about zilliax warrior but at least you can counter that by stealing it before it dies with multiple options available to all classes. The problem is more the cards/decks that have no counters, which are going to be combos involving OTK spells like chalice and lamplighter. Zero way to interact/influence the outcome of the game.
I see a lot of suggestions I genuinely disagree with:
Hydration station: Genuinely, I think these lategame warrior/druid decks aren't very good. They preform decent right now, because the meta hasn't settled - but there are so many decks out there that genuinely can consistently kill these control decks before they become a problem. I can't speak much for aggro right now (Though pirate decks or elemental decks seem pretty decent right now) but the tempo(y) OTK decks I've been playing (Mostly druid) has nearly a 100% win rate against all of these control decks I've been seeing, and they fair pretty decent against aggro too - I see control decks as pretty weak right now, at least in comparison to the top of the meta.
(That said, I do like the idea of changing it to "3 different taunt minions" just because I think that would make the meta more diverse and fun.)
Zilliax is fine right now imo - if you're playing aggro and can't win before Zilliax comes down, he's the punish for that - and that's healthy, I think that's fine. If you're not aggro and struggle to beat these Zilliax/hydration station decks, you need a suitable OTK or value to overcome that - and that's also fine - The cards are not overwhelming OP relative to other cards in the meta.
(Granted, I will say that the board-state hasn't been the most relevant for the last couple metas, and that's perhaps not the most healthy thing - but Zilliax is only a small part of that problem.)
Lamplighter I actually agree with being nerfed slightly, I don't think it's 'that' far off from being balanced, but the high-roll potential, especially in rogue is too much. I think moving it to 4 mana, even with a buff to the stats, would be fine.
Concierge and Seabreeze Chalice - Personally I don't think Concierge is that great - it does make certain combos stronger, but it does take up a slot in your deck/hand, and is otherwise useless outside of the OTK/combo - so you kinda have to either highroll or let the game last a while, which makes her kinda slow. That said, as the meta settles and speeds up, I don't think she'll be as common to see. The OTK druid deck I've been playing actually cuts the card, in favor for more early game tempo/survivability (Though I still go for kills by turn 6-8 ideally)
Seabreeze, though, is DEFFINETLY too strong, imo. If it got nerfed to "2 mana deal 3-4" I still think it would be very playable - presently I've got like a 80+% win rate with my tempo-ish OTK druid in legend, after the nerf I bet it would still be well over 50%.
New Heights - Odd to me seeing this mentioned in this thread. - It's not much different than Splish-Splash Whelp - except the whelp plays for tempo VS New Heights Control - and objectively Tempo is more important than control.
The only thing that makes New Heights better than the Whelp in this meta is the combo potential, like with Mistah, or discounted with Lifebinder's gift - whereas whelp is required to be played with dragons (Which will probably fall off a bit given some time) - unless you're in a control VS control game, that extra max mana should not matter much. (In aggro VS control, if you get that late in the game, you've probably lost regardless of the extra mana.) If wild growth was available in this meta, I'd probably play it over new heights in most decks.
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Yeah, warrior is objectively a pretty weak class right now (Competitively) - since it relies a bit too much on the late-game - without a high-roll it gets run over by any fast-paced OTK deck, or any deck that can maintain pressure through all of warrior's clears.
You must be crazy in the head if you think this is fine, Zilliax come down turn 5 every game there is no aggro deck that kills warrior before turn 5.
Also the dumbass spell ping the zilliax divine shield which makes it die right away 99% of the time denying any type of transform/steal counter, what should be a downside of that spell is actually benefiting them. Again bad design decision.
Personally, I don't think concierge is very good. I mean, with all of the slow control decks around, of course the OTK will preform well there - but against faster decks concierge is just kinda slow or inconsistent. Like yeah, if you highroll it can discount you 9-12 mana on turn 5 and get OTK'd by 48 damage burst - but usually the OTK will come much later, and all of the stronger decks in the meta should be settling their games by turn 6-8
Excluding the early-game highrolls, I think there are better OTK druid decks to play in all stages of the game, so concierge is not the problem. Chalice is.
Ah, right, I forgot about that spell. Zilliax has been so unimpactful in most of my games that even if he comes out on turn 5, it's so easy for me to disregard him. (I mostly play OTK decks, so even on turn 5, I can ignore that 4 damage hits for a few turns and kill the warrior on turn 6-8)
So I guess I've been kinda hard-countering him more than I realized.
The only thing I think is especially bad about that Zilliax, is he's part of the problem in how 'bad' board-centric decks are right now. It's certainly not 'just' Zilliax that causes that problem though - powerful and cheap board clears are abundant, and there are a lot of titans that do similar things. The biggest problem with Zilliax in comparison to all of those other cards is probably that he has recovery built in too on top of all of that.
I do see now, though, how he'd be a problem for most of the meta, aggro and midranged decks in particular - and mostly because of that 5 mana spell.
No easy fix comes to mind - either removing divine shield or life-steal could certainly do it, removing either keyword would be a significant hit on it's stickiness or sustainability by a lot - personally, though, I think it'd be more fun if he were redesigned. Like if each of the 8 modules had a keywords and a text ability assigned to them - would leave us with more diverse options for builds, I think - more-so it would leave zilliax with only 2 keywords to work with when cheated out.
Edit: Some more thoughts on this rework idea, just trying to make all of the modules more usable:
M1 2 mana 1/1, Stealth, Deathrattle: Shuffle this into your deck
M2: 3 mana 3/2, Divine Sheild, Rush. "At the End of your turn, deal 4 damage to this minion and your hero"
M3: 3 mana 1/3, Elusive, "At the start of your turn, Double this minion's Attack.
M4: 3 mana 2/2, Your other minions have +1/1
M5: 4 mana Taunt, Battlecry: Summon a copy of this
M6: 4 mana 3/2, Lifesteal, windfury, poisonous
M7: 5 mana 1/4, Reborn, Titan: (Fill your board with 1/1 microbots with random keywords.) (Magnetize target mech to this minion) (Discover 2 random keywords)
M8: 6 mana, 1/1, Charge, Cost 1 less for each minion in play.
^I think a change like this would be kinda cool. A couple of notes:
For the M1+M7 Zilliax, I would assume using a titan ability would remove stealth, just like how you can't use a titan ability when frozen, it's fair to say that titan abilities are treated similar to attacks when it comes to other effects.
The best combo now for warrior recovery/control now becomes a bit less clear, M2+M6 seems pretty strong, 6/4 with rush, windfury, lifesteal, and poison for 7 mana, that's a 'clear 2, heal for 12' kinda minon, but he's not going to stick on the board at least.
M6+M8 would probably be the go-to for handbuff decks, though
However M5 could also be good for warrior/taunt handbuff strats, either with M8, M6, or even M3 and M2 could be solid.
M7 could possible be the Go-to for more controlish decks since there is a lot of value to be had with a titan, especially one that could be repayable with M1, or copiable with M5. Although I made the abilities fairly weak, it does kinda hard-counter other Zilliax players with the 'magnetize' middle ability.
Druid has ramp too , warrior is not the only one capable of playing zilliax very early in the game meaning the pressure you are supposed to do while they are doing ramp as a form of punishmente doens't matter cus zilliax come online and the game is over , you fully heal back then u setup your spell damage , swipe stuff to keep clearing over and over again with the game totally stabilished.
Just Lamplighter for me. I crush with it, get crushed w/o it. And now there's a Rogue version with shadow and breakdance it's an easy OTK for them.
I mean, playing druid or warrior, if you do 'nothing' but ramp for 2-3 turns, aggro decks can definitely kill you by turn 4-5 - or bring you to a point to where you can't find a clear (Especially with druid's limited removal)
I do agree that aggro isn't in the best spot right now, though - or any board-centric deck for that matter - by the time you have 7-8 mana the game is pretty over for them.
Not the worst thing in the world imo, I find those kinds of decks pretty boring to play - But I do wish that mid-ranged board centric decks were more viable - they're the real losers of this meta I think - at least the more OP aggro decks are still maintaining a good win rate - it's understandable for those decks to feel frustrating to go up against Zilliax, but to be fair, what can you expect when you're playing a deck with such a straight foreword hard counter out there. "Sustain+clear" Zilliax just happens to do both.
This is the worst take in the whole thread
Yes indeed warrior/druid player totally spotted
Did that guy just try and rework zilliax modules to allow stealth+doubling attack? That's an instant "haha this guy has no clue" moment for me.
Zilliax is the most dominating card in the game atm, and not just because of hydration station, boom etc. It's also the best aggro card because the -cost per minion module is also broken as fuck. It's so stupid how it also punishes the opposing player for playing minions. Aggro v. aggro is down to whoever gets the zilliax down first to get uncontested board control. -cost + perfect module is also the best anti-aggro swiss army knife in the game.
You do realize stealth only lasts one turn, right? - but that is a fair criticism, I wanted to spread out the available keywords as much as I could, but there's only so much to work with. - As far as the stealth+double attack goes, they starting at 2 attack between the two of them was certainly intentional - at 5 mana, even with some hand buffs it's not exactly the easiest to OTK with. Maybe around turn 8 you could play it, buff it, and have the stats doubled next turn for lethal - but all of that doesn't sound the most reliable - and any later in the game, even with stealth, there are ways to clear it or counter it - so wouldn't consider it the 'best' option among the Zilliax I designed there.
Fair to disagree, but my win rate jumped a good 15-20% when I stopping building my druid decks around those cards. Statistic don't be lying.
I still feel the general perspective on those cards are just skewed because most people don't know how to play the meta.
You should apply to work for Team 5, you'd fit right in.
people complaining about zillax and warrior make me laugh