I personally think this combo is brain dead broken and needs to be addressed mainly because it alone can literally shit on any minion based deck with little effort thanks to Ice Fishing, Gorloc Ravager and Clownfish.
But I'd also like to know what others think. (other than "Just kill them before they can pull it off!")
I personally think this combo is brain dead broken and needs to be addressed mainly because it alone can literally shit on any minion based deck with little effort thanks to Ice Fishing, Gorloc Ravager and Clownfish.
But I'd also like to know what others think. (other than "Just kill them before they can pull it off!")
It's a combo that requires 2-3 cards that is vulnerable to disruption (i.e. Dirty Rat)
Really? A 4 card combo used by one archetype is over-powered?
To pull off that combo, they need 9 mana to cast the murlocs and Grumble. Then Grumble needs to survive until the next round so it can be Zola'ed. After that point, either Zola or Grumble will be left on the board at the end of their turn.
That means that your deck is lacking the ability to remove an individual minion from play, which is a fundamental defensive requirement.
I believe denathrius was nerfed for standard, where this disruption wasnt present. And yes, if you want to hinder certain strategies, you allocate deck spots to do so. Thats how it works.
Really? A 4 card combo used by one archetype is over-powered?
To pull off that combo, they need 9 mana to cast the murlocs and Grumble. Then Grumble needs to survive until the next round so it can be Zola'ed. After that point, either Zola or Grumble will be left on the board at the end of their turn.
That means that your deck is lacking the ability to remove an individual minion from play, which is a fundamental defensive requirement.
Or is there something I've missed?
Yes, you have missed Clownfish which allows all those 4 cards to be played with 9 mana.
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Developers' inability to balance is one thing; players choosing to abuse it is another.
The exact combo you mentioned isn't relevant really. But murloc package itself is broken as hell. Ice FIshing - ClownFish - Scargill + Gorloc + another clownfish + mutanus + flurgl + toxfin. And everything on turn4. And it's super consistent. Even if you are playing control deck that can deal with this broken ass tempo swing, they are playing every disruption in the game + ofc Shudderwock. Unless you are playing fun&interactive decks like QL Druid/Mine Rogue/Fizzle priest you have no chance against t2 Ice FIshing.
Uh shaman has been able to do this for ages with snowfall guardian. If you fill your board against shaman, expect to have to pass 6 turns+ in a row, most likely forever because it stalls out to shudderwork.
Scargill wasn't broken on release, but with the addition of clownfish, gorloc and mutanus it's horribly busted.
The Murloc package is far too consistent. Being able to reduce the mana cost so easily is the epitome of the mana cheat that deserves and gets nerfed, for obvious reasons.
Toxfin + Murgl is pretty annoying but makes up a 2 card board clear. Easy to destroy on your next turn. I wouldn’t say it’s OP, considering 1card board clears are better but again, too consistent with the Murloc tutor package.
It baffles me how the community defends the Flurgl + Toxfin combo. Yes, the murloc package is a bigger issue atm, but a 3 mana board clear that requires an immediate answer from the opponent to not lose the game on the spot is not healthy for the game at all.
This community is filled with anger and personal grudges, so they lose sight of whatever is broken and unhealthy for the game. Usually they defend whatever is broken when they win with it or don't lose to, but when they lose to it, it needs an immediate nerf and it's the most broken thing ever. I'm playing mech paladin and I don't defend a turn 2-3 fill the board. It's toxic and broken. The game is at its best in the span of 6-9 turns. You feel you played the game but it's also fast enough you don't get bored of it and want to queue another game.
Sorry for the small rant, but seriously wild needs to be looked at because some cards or combos are getting too ridiculous. The community defending such broken cards or interactions is also ridiculous.
In fairness, the three points that probably need mentioning here are:
1, It's Wild. It's literally chock full of broken and OP combos. This has been the case since its inception and Blizzard has made it known from the start that this is the case.
2. Denathrius was nerfed because it was a bigger problem in Standard, where it was dominating the meta across almost every class and nearly every deck played it. This is clearly not the case when there is only one deck and archetype playing this particular combo.
3. The combo mentioned in the OP appears to be 12 mana in total. Assuming there was no mana reduction used (as the post didn't suggest there was), that means that it was played over two turns, with Grumble sitting on the board and could easily have been disrupted by a simple removal or damage and certainly wouldn't have needed a Dirty Rat in hand for it.
Lastly, it's worth mentioning that Dirty Rat isn't the only disruption option available here, when there are a number of other cards that directly interfere with the opponent's combo pieces - you just need to add them to your deck.
It's really funny how all the shaman players here are just talking nonsense. Of course Shaman is overpowered and absolutely braindead. But several variants are much too strong, it doesn't matter if Shutterwock or Totem Shaman. But it's not only the boardclear here, Scargill is and all the Battlecrys for 1Mana make the whole thing just ridiculous. And as mentioned by others, the Clownfish is also a big problem, as this effect allows you to play the Murlocs for 0 mana. It's always a beautiful experience when you want to play some relaxed hand/control but the Mutanus eats away your whole hand. No one needs to tell you "play Dirty Rat" because you don't want to catch a Murloc with it, but the Shutterwock. Whoever says that has no idea about the game or just wants to leave the Shaman as it is. You can ask En_Djinn, Dane or Evildevil about it, as far as I know they all have the same opinion and that is: It's just a totally retarded way to play and it's no fun at all. I see people who play this in casual, for me these are bots and I am also of the opinion that these bots are operated by Blizzard (Just as a random conspiracy theory).
And while I'm at it to make a WallofText about the balancing in Wild, I have directly a few more things:
No idea what the developers are thinking but the new cards make the priest in Wild just toxic. The APM deck is a great thing, so I like APM plays, that shows at least a little bit of skill but it's way too strong. The Standard variant alone can easily beat many top Wild decks, but the Bloodweaver / Mechathun decklist is just overpowered. You can only hope that you get the Thun with the Rat, although it can also be in the deck and you're Anton FoKKer. I've seen this happen several times, that the combo goes out before 10Mana can even be talked about. A quick word about the Bigpriest: For ages the community has been picking on the BigPriest as a disgusting opponent. Neptulon on turn 3 is just a big joke, no matter if you get rid of it or not, it will come back. And for that reason alone, "Love Everlasting" should be banned in Wild. Why do I write it like this? The developers are either a) too incapable to adapt it or b) simply have no interest in it, after all the standard cow has to be milked. Go ahead, go on Twitch and ask Dane, I'm sure he'll confirm.
The Point: The new Overheal Cards should be banned in Wild. Radio Element should be banned in Wild or read "Your Spells costs 1less but not less than 1". Rig the Draws for Bigpriest so those are not allowed to cheat out Shadow Essence for 3 Mana.
So where do we go from here? With the Druid? It's not even that Guff is very unfair, if Guff goes to 8Mana that would still be perfectly ok. But a Druid also pulls you through the whole deck without even thinking about 10Mana, that just feels totally retarded too. As already mentioned, I like APM plays but then please on ~10Mana.
This is enough of Text, my favourite last words: Do not give Blizzard any Money, be free and free2play. DO NOT BUY ANY PIECE OF BLIZZARD Software.
Why don't you want to hear "just kill them before they can pull it off"? That's a perfect advice and exactly the way to deal with decks that are using 4-5 card combos at the time most of the Wild games are already over. The combo that is used after most of the games are already over cannot be OP. Priest has a quest that literally destroys enemy hero, it's not even a combo, still not broken for the same reason.
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English is not my native language, so, with a high probability, mistakes were made.
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My last opponent played Firemancer Flurgl, Toxfin, Grumble, Worldshaker, Zola the Gorgon, then basically repeated bouncing the combo over and over...
I personally think this combo is brain dead broken and needs to be addressed mainly because it alone can literally shit on any minion based deck with little effort thanks to Ice Fishing, Gorloc Ravager and Clownfish.
But I'd also like to know what others think. (other than "Just kill them before they can pull it off!")
Developers' inability to balance is one thing; players choosing to abuse it is another.
It's a combo that requires 2-3 cards that is vulnerable to disruption (i.e. Dirty Rat)
It's fine as it is
Oh I should be running Dirty Rats in all my decks just to try to disrupt the combo; that's easy!
HOWEVER, I wonder then... why they nerfed Sire Denathrius when you could disrupt it?
Developers' inability to balance is one thing; players choosing to abuse it is another.
Really? A 4 card combo used by one archetype is over-powered?
To pull off that combo, they need 9 mana to cast the murlocs and Grumble. Then Grumble needs to survive until the next round so it can be Zola'ed. After that point, either Zola or Grumble will be left on the board at the end of their turn.
That means that your deck is lacking the ability to remove an individual minion from play, which is a fundamental defensive requirement.
Or is there something I've missed?
its literally the only good remove that Shaman has, and other classes have like 500 removes
I believe denathrius was nerfed for standard, where this disruption wasnt present. And yes, if you want to hinder certain strategies, you allocate deck spots to do so. Thats how it works.
Yes, you have missed Clownfish which allows all those 4 cards to be played with 9 mana.
Developers' inability to balance is one thing; players choosing to abuse it is another.
It's not "just" for that deck. Dirty Rat is good against many decks. Now you can even hide it behind an ETC
You are complaining about a 5 card "combo" that can be achieved at 9 Mana. Most combo decks in wild win the game with less cards before that.
This is more like a salty post on your behalf
The exact combo you mentioned isn't relevant really.
But murloc package itself is broken as hell.
Ice FIshing - ClownFish - Scargill + Gorloc + another clownfish + mutanus + flurgl + toxfin. And everything on turn4. And it's super consistent. Even if you are playing control deck that can deal with this broken ass tempo swing, they are playing every disruption in the game + ofc Shudderwock.
Unless you are playing fun&interactive decks like QL Druid/Mine Rogue/Fizzle priest you have no chance against t2 Ice FIshing.
The combo op mentioned is useless but flurgl tox is broken as are the murlocs.
Dirty rat isn’t good atm
Uh shaman has been able to do this for ages with snowfall guardian. If you fill your board against shaman, expect to have to pass 6 turns+ in a row, most likely forever because it stalls out to shudderwork.
Scargill wasn't broken on release, but with the addition of clownfish, gorloc and mutanus it's horribly busted.
The Murloc package is far too consistent. Being able to reduce the mana cost so easily is the epitome of the mana cheat that deserves and gets nerfed, for obvious reasons.
Toxfin + Murgl is pretty annoying but makes up a 2 card board clear. Easy to destroy on your next turn. I wouldn’t say it’s OP, considering 1card board clears are better but again, too consistent with the Murloc tutor package.
Yeah, but it’s also a board swing. And that’s huge. You also have to clear it or else lose on the spot since you cannot redevelop
It baffles me how the community defends the Flurgl + Toxfin combo. Yes, the murloc package is a bigger issue atm, but a 3 mana board clear that requires an immediate answer from the opponent to not lose the game on the spot is not healthy for the game at all.
This community is filled with anger and personal grudges, so they lose sight of whatever is broken and unhealthy for the game. Usually they defend whatever is broken when they win with it or don't lose to, but when they lose to it, it needs an immediate nerf and it's the most broken thing ever. I'm playing mech paladin and I don't defend a turn 2-3 fill the board. It's toxic and broken. The game is at its best in the span of 6-9 turns. You feel you played the game but it's also fast enough you don't get bored of it and want to queue another game.
Sorry for the small rant, but seriously wild needs to be looked at because some cards or combos are getting too ridiculous. The community defending such broken cards or interactions is also ridiculous.
In fairness, the three points that probably need mentioning here are:
1, It's Wild. It's literally chock full of broken and OP combos. This has been the case since its inception and Blizzard has made it known from the start that this is the case.
2. Denathrius was nerfed because it was a bigger problem in Standard, where it was dominating the meta across almost every class and nearly every deck played it. This is clearly not the case when there is only one deck and archetype playing this particular combo.
3. The combo mentioned in the OP appears to be 12 mana in total. Assuming there was no mana reduction used (as the post didn't suggest there was), that means that it was played over two turns, with Grumble sitting on the board and could easily have been disrupted by a simple removal or damage and certainly wouldn't have needed a Dirty Rat in hand for it.
Lastly, it's worth mentioning that Dirty Rat isn't the only disruption option available here, when there are a number of other cards that directly interfere with the opponent's combo pieces - you just need to add them to your deck.
also, clears aren’t great in wild anymore on their own. You need to swing the board the same turn you clear, that’s what makes the murlocs so good
seems the gods habe spoken, you have no idea what you are Talking about, and every Single card you mentioned badly needs a buff lol
It's really funny how all the shaman players here are just talking nonsense. Of course Shaman is overpowered and absolutely braindead.
But several variants are much too strong, it doesn't matter if Shutterwock or Totem Shaman.
But it's not only the boardclear here, Scargill is and all the Battlecrys for 1Mana make the whole thing just ridiculous. And as mentioned by others, the Clownfish is also a big problem, as this effect allows you to play the Murlocs for 0 mana. It's always a beautiful experience when you want to play some relaxed hand/control but the Mutanus eats away your whole hand.
No one needs to tell you "play Dirty Rat" because you don't want to catch a Murloc with it, but the Shutterwock. Whoever says that has no idea about the game or just wants to leave the Shaman as it is.
You can ask En_Djinn, Dane or Evildevil about it, as far as I know they all have the same opinion and that is: It's just a totally retarded way to play and it's no fun at all.
I see people who play this in casual, for me these are bots and I am also of the opinion that these bots are operated by Blizzard (Just as a random conspiracy theory).
And while I'm at it to make a WallofText about the balancing in Wild, I have directly a few more things:
No idea what the developers are thinking but the new cards make the priest in Wild just toxic.
The APM deck is a great thing, so I like APM plays, that shows at least a little bit of skill but it's way too strong.
The Standard variant alone can easily beat many top Wild decks, but the Bloodweaver / Mechathun decklist is just overpowered.
You can only hope that you get the Thun with the Rat, although it can also be in the deck and you're Anton FoKKer. I've seen this happen several times, that the combo goes out before 10Mana can even be talked about.
A quick word about the Bigpriest: For ages the community has been picking on the BigPriest as a disgusting opponent. Neptulon on turn 3 is just a big joke, no matter if you get rid of it or not, it will come back. And for that reason alone, "Love Everlasting" should be banned in Wild. Why do I write it like this? The developers are either a) too incapable to adapt it or b) simply have no interest in it, after all the standard cow has to be milked.
Go ahead, go on Twitch and ask Dane, I'm sure he'll confirm.
The Point: The new Overheal Cards should be banned in Wild.
Radio Element should be banned in Wild or read "Your Spells costs 1less but not less than 1".
Rig the Draws for Bigpriest so those are not allowed to cheat out Shadow Essence for 3 Mana.
So where do we go from here? With the Druid? It's not even that Guff is very unfair, if Guff goes to 8Mana that would still be perfectly ok.
But a Druid also pulls you through the whole deck without even thinking about 10Mana, that just feels totally retarded too.
As already mentioned, I like APM plays but then please on ~10Mana.
This is enough of Text, my favourite last words:
Do not give Blizzard any Money, be free and free2play. DO NOT BUY ANY PIECE OF BLIZZARD Software.
best wishes to the whole CUMunity,
MagicAmy69
For Cool Gameplay and long Streams check: https://www.twitch.tv/disnof
For Cool Cats and Carol f*cking Basking check: https://www.youtube.com/@ChaosCatsClub/
Why don't you want to hear "just kill them before they can pull it off"? That's a perfect advice and exactly the way to deal with decks that are using 4-5 card combos at the time most of the Wild games are already over. The combo that is used after most of the games are already over cannot be OP. Priest has a quest that literally destroys enemy hero, it's not even a combo, still not broken for the same reason.
English is not my native language, so, with a high probability, mistakes were made.