I will admit this is the first time I have seen someone complaining that there is too MUCH diversity in a class and that a class can play any of the three archetypes. Considering it's something the community has been asking for for years, there is definitely a measure of irony here.
I must admit it is the next level of blindness to see this as a complaining about diversity.
I will admit this is the first time I have seen someone complaining that there is too MUCH diversity in a class and that a class can play any of the three archetypes. Considering it's something the community has been asking for for years, there is definitely a measure of irony here.
I must admit it is the next level of blindness to see this as a complaining about diversity.
...I do take issue in the fact that they have three prevalent meta decks - two of which are tier 1 - that can either be aggro, control, or combo.
Just going to leave that there then. That's pretty much a clear complaint about a class having too much diversity.
I mean, there's a decent point there from them that its back to the days of mulliganing against either pirate warrior or control warrior, what do you do? you pick wrong you lose because the decks are so different. one you need your combo cards earlier, one you need your healing/aoe earlier and even if you win the 50/50 mulligan coin flip you still have a high chance of losing. So Whats the answer? Just play one of the DK decks or just lose more often than not. If there was a definitive counter against each deck to dissuade it being played so much this wouldn't be an issue, the issue is each deck is played 5x more than any other deck.
Honest to god i've played over 30 matches tonight and i did not play a single mage, rogue, warrior, shaman or druid at d1
You talk about that as though it's somehow a bad thing? It's the opposite, though. You shouldn't normally be able to know exactly what deck you are going to face just by the opponent's class. It requires players to actually develop and use the skill of adapting to the deck they are playing. Unfortunately for a long time, we never really had that optimum goal of having to learn what deck the opponent is playing until recently. There have been brief glimpses of it now and then, like say with Druid, where you weren't sure if was Aggro Druid or a long term Control deck. And those make for greater gameplay.
Otherwise we are back to the stale metas of Classic Hearthstone where classes like Huner (for example) were only ever to play Face decks, etc). Deathknight is hopefully the start of multiple classes that can really diversify their viable deck options and make the game much more enjoyable overall.
You talk about that as though it's somehow a bad thing? It's the opposite, though. You shouldn't normally be able to know exactly what deck you are going to face just by the opponent's class. It requires players to actually develop and use the skill of adapting to the deck they are playing. Unfortunately for a long time, we never really had that optimum goal of having to learn what deck the opponent is playing until recently. There have been brief glimpses of it now and then, like say with Druid, where you weren't sure if was Aggro Druid or a long term Control deck. And those make for greater gameplay.
Otherwise we are back to the stale metas of Classic Hearthstone where classes like Huner (for example) were only ever to play Face decks, etc). Deathknight is hopefully the start of multiple classes that can really diversify their viable deck options and make the game much more enjoyable overall.
Out of the respect of you moderating this forum I wont go further than saying this... That you think for a second the meta is healthy is actually moronic or you just don't play hearthstone. I'd like to assume its the ladder but lets be honest, the meta is always shit, but this time its shit with an extra bit of whip cream on it. This game is already dying like a brick, it has no where near the participation or ingenuity it did half a decade ago, its just kind of sad to watch now. you'd think getting to legend would be fun, but throwing fun decks at 30 death knight matches because they're all chasing their legend rank for the month is beyond the stupidest crap ever, it forces you to intentionally pick against them or pick something that has half a chance against them. yes there are other decks that "work" but there are no other decks that flat out win. This is literally secret pally levels of stupidity from grand tournament, turn 6 drop christmas tree and win game.
Vicious Syndicate posted their meta snapshot a couple of days ago, so just as always people will flock to the easiest tier 1 decks, like Blood DK. A deck so simple that could be piloted by a bot and you wouldn't know the difference.
Give it some time, it will get better... at least until the next meta snapshot.
Ok, if it REALLY has to be said straightforward - nobody would complain about DK (or DH) having 3 different decks in tier 1 if it was something available for EACH class or at least most of them. We have meta at top legend with:
2 classes having 3 tier 1-2 decks
3 more classes having 1 deck in tier 1-2
6 classes having no deck whatsoever in tier 1 or 2
I don't believe anyone said this was a "diverse meta", only that the Deathknight CLASS had diversity in it's deck options - which it clearly does, going by the OP's comment. There's a pretty big difference in those two things. In fact, I even went so far as to be specific in this point:
Deathknight is hopefully the start of multiple classes that can really diversify their viable deck options and make the game much more enjoyable overall.
You talk about that as though it's somehow a bad thing? It's the opposite, though. You shouldn't normally be able to know exactly what deck you are going to face just by the opponent's class. It requires players to actually develop and use the skill of adapting to the deck they are playing. Unfortunately for a long time, we never really had that optimum goal of having to learn what deck the opponent is playing until recently. There have been brief glimpses of it now and then, like say with Druid, where you weren't sure if was Aggro Druid or a long term Control deck. And those make for greater gameplay.
Otherwise we are back to the stale metas of Classic Hearthstone where classes like Huner (for example) were only ever to play Face decks, etc). Deathknight is hopefully the start of multiple classes that can really diversify their viable deck options and make the game much more enjoyable overall.
Out of the respect of you moderating this forum I wont go further than saying this... That you think for a second the meta is healthy is actually moronic or you just don't play hearthstone. I'd like to assume its the ladder but lets be honest, the meta is always shit, but this time its shit with an extra bit of whip cream on it. This game is already dying like a brick, it has no where near the participation or ingenuity it did half a decade ago, its just kind of sad to watch now. you'd think getting to legend would be fun, but throwing fun decks at 30 death knight matches because they're all chasing their legend rank for the month is beyond the stupidest crap ever, it forces you to intentionally pick against them or pick something that has half a chance against them. yes there are other decks that "work" but there are no other decks that flat out win. This is literally secret pally levels of stupidity from grand tournament, turn 6 drop christmas tree and win game.
Aside from the fact I didn't talk about the state or health of this current meta once, since we've degraded to insulting language, that's where I leave this conversation. Thanks.
It is just getting boring to face the same class over and over. Will result in me dropping the game after a few days of the new expansion. Just clearing quests and wait for balance patch or something like that.
It’s pretty kind blowing to check stats on HSReplay and see nothing but ‘Death Knight’ as the best deck in almost every region, in any rank. You’d think the nerf hammer would be coming down hard by now… Would it be unrealistic to start hearing about a much needed patch by now? Speaking of which, is there a stat about how much time it takes the team to be proactive and patch the game?
Still reading through replies but I’ll address some points made here. Regarding the diversity aspect of DK, it’s true that the class is inherently diverse by design but it’s important to note that all the popular/viable decks in the DK meta are simply the same decks the class debuted with. Like the commenter above mentioned, deathrattle DK is nowhere to be seen and tricolor DK is irrelevant in favor of the tired decklists we all faced in 2022.
But really the crux of why I’m saying that DK specifically having 3 relevant decks at their disposal is a problem is because the class is overwhelmingly popular while the majority of other classes are being completely eclipsed. Meta diversity should focus first and foremost on having viable strategies for as many classes as possible, not a situation where one class can succeed with control, combo, or aggro while the others are struggling to put any numbers on the boards.
I don't believe anyone said this was a "diverse meta", only that the Deathknight CLASS had diversity in it's deck options - which it clearly does, going by the OP's comment. There's a pretty big difference in those two things. In fact, I even went so far as to be specific in this point:
Deathknight is hopefully the start of multiple classes that can really diversify their viable deck options and make the game much more enjoyable overall.
Well sure, but you said people are complaining about too much diversity, which was just silly and ignoring context of meta.
I would hesitate to even call this current meta legitimately diverse at all. It’s more like the illusion of diversity because yes, it can feel diverse to have multiple game plans you can try out…if you’re a DK main. Otherwise it’s an eye rolling experience to see that same portrait load up game after game, and then even more so when you miss the 50/50 call (It feels more like 33/33/33 to me but that’s just my experience on ladder) on what cards you actually want to keep in your hand.
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Hmmm... "next level blindness"?
Just going to leave that there then.
That's pretty much a clear complaint about a class having too much diversity.
tournaments mean nothing to ladder
Ladder its also Frost. Blood is there but is not even close in winrate.
I mean, there's a decent point there from them that its back to the days of mulliganing against either pirate warrior or control warrior, what do you do? you pick wrong you lose because the decks are so different. one you need your combo cards earlier, one you need your healing/aoe earlier and even if you win the 50/50 mulligan coin flip you still have a high chance of losing. So Whats the answer? Just play one of the DK decks or just lose more often than not. If there was a definitive counter against each deck to dissuade it being played so much this wouldn't be an issue, the issue is each deck is played 5x more than any other deck.
Honest to god i've played over 30 matches tonight and i did not play a single mage, rogue, warrior, shaman or druid at d1
You talk about that as though it's somehow a bad thing?
It's the opposite, though. You shouldn't normally be able to know exactly what deck you are going to face just by the opponent's class. It requires players to actually develop and use the skill of adapting to the deck they are playing.
Unfortunately for a long time, we never really had that optimum goal of having to learn what deck the opponent is playing until recently. There have been brief glimpses of it now and then, like say with Druid, where you weren't sure if was Aggro Druid or a long term Control deck. And those make for greater gameplay.
Otherwise we are back to the stale metas of Classic Hearthstone where classes like Huner (for example) were only ever to play Face decks, etc). Deathknight is hopefully the start of multiple classes that can really diversify their viable deck options and make the game much more enjoyable overall.
Out of the respect of you moderating this forum I wont go further than saying this... That you think for a second the meta is healthy is actually moronic or you just don't play hearthstone. I'd like to assume its the ladder but lets be honest, the meta is always shit, but this time its shit with an extra bit of whip cream on it. This game is already dying like a brick, it has no where near the participation or ingenuity it did half a decade ago, its just kind of sad to watch now. you'd think getting to legend would be fun, but throwing fun decks at 30 death knight matches because they're all chasing their legend rank for the month is beyond the stupidest crap ever, it forces you to intentionally pick against them or pick something that has half a chance against them. yes there are other decks that "work" but there are no other decks that flat out win. This is literally secret pally levels of stupidity from grand tournament, turn 6 drop christmas tree and win game.
Vicious Syndicate posted their meta snapshot a couple of days ago, so just as always people will flock to the easiest tier 1 decks, like Blood DK. A deck so simple that could be piloted by a bot and you wouldn't know the difference.
Give it some time, it will get better... at least until the next meta snapshot.
I really don't think 250,000 games of frost+blood dk are from just a snapshot vs the total 100k maybe of other various meta deck combined
Death knight is fine, remove this druid class already. really fun for nobody.
Ok, if it REALLY has to be said straightforward - nobody would complain about DK (or DH) having 3 different decks in tier 1 if it was something available for EACH class or at least most of them. We have meta at top legend with:
2 classes having 3 tier 1-2 decks
3 more classes having 1 deck in tier 1-2
6 classes having no deck whatsoever in tier 1 or 2
This is NOT DIVERSE meta. Period.
Which conclusion can we draw from the 10 most played cards at the moment:
Mainly that dk draw sucks hard
I don't believe anyone said this was a "diverse meta", only that the Deathknight CLASS had diversity in it's deck options - which it clearly does, going by the OP's comment. There's a pretty big difference in those two things.
In fact, I even went so far as to be specific in this point:
Aside from the fact I didn't talk about the state or health of this current meta once, since we've degraded to insulting language, that's where I leave this conversation.
Thanks.
It is just getting boring to face the same class over and over. Will result in me dropping the game after a few days of the new expansion.
Just clearing quests and wait for balance patch or something like that.
It’s pretty kind blowing to check stats on HSReplay and see nothing but ‘Death Knight’ as the best deck in almost every region, in any rank. You’d think the nerf hammer would be coming down hard by now… Would it be unrealistic to start hearing about a much needed patch by now? Speaking of which, is there a stat about how much time it takes the team to be proactive and patch the game?
Click here and look on the left. Even at full speed, so many Death Knights.
I was playing a Cage Head deck, and wanted to try out a rainbow Climactic Necrotic Explosion deck. But after facing mostly DKs, it gets boring fast.
Still reading through replies but I’ll address some points made here. Regarding the diversity aspect of DK, it’s true that the class is inherently diverse by design but it’s important to note that all the popular/viable decks in the DK meta are simply the same decks the class debuted with. Like the commenter above mentioned, deathrattle DK is nowhere to be seen and tricolor DK is irrelevant in favor of the tired decklists we all faced in 2022.
But really the crux of why I’m saying that DK specifically having 3 relevant decks at their disposal is a problem is because the class is overwhelmingly popular while the majority of other classes are being completely eclipsed. Meta diversity should focus first and foremost on having viable strategies for as many classes as possible, not a situation where one class can succeed with control, combo, or aggro while the others are struggling to put any numbers on the boards.
Well sure, but you said people are complaining about too much diversity, which was just silly and ignoring context of meta.
I would hesitate to even call this current meta legitimately diverse at all. It’s more like the illusion of diversity because yes, it can feel diverse to have multiple game plans you can try out…if you’re a DK main. Otherwise it’s an eye rolling experience to see that same portrait load up game after game, and then even more so when you miss the 50/50 call (It feels more like 33/33/33 to me but that’s just my experience on ladder) on what cards you actually want to keep in your hand.