So I had been grinding up to D6 in standard with a midrange deck i cooked up that’s pretty successful. Or at least it was pretty successful until today when I played 10 games, 9 of which were against Death Knights. My problem isn’t the popularity of the class (they didn’t lose a single class card during the set rotation and their core sets are obscenely powerful, why would anyone expect any different) but I do take issue in the fact that they have three prevalent meta decks - two of which are tier 1 - that can either be aggro, control, or combo. This makes it impossible to even MULLIGAN against them. I’m swapping removal to start aggressively — then I see it’s triple Blood. I keep the removal the next game — but this one is running Frost OTK. Okay let’s tech in something to mess with their game plan — that’s now bricked in my hand because this next one is unholy aggro. I’m glad that the DK experiment is working out so well that all three times can find a spot in the meta to varying degrees, but can we get any sort of potential counter play here?
My last 28 games - 14 DKs, 1 DH, 2 Druids, 3 Pala, 2 Priests, 4 Rogues, 2 Warriors.
Great meta...
And no, there is no unholy DK, 50% meta are just Blood and Frost DK. It's just sad that this expansion is so overshadowed by busted cards from the previous one.
I would actually be okay with DK if it weren't all the same Hearthstone replay netdecks. No one even tries to go even slightly outside of the carbon copy rank 1 legend streamer build.
But... but... but WAIT! All the DK apologist trolls on here SWEAR there's not a single DK deck anywhere in the upper reaches of the ladder... so that means they don't need ANY balancing or anything done to their cards...
... I know they're full of shit, but I'm happy at least to see someone posting it and calling them out for it.
I will admit this is the first time I have seen someone complaining that there is too MUCH diversity in a class and that a class can play any of the three archetypes. Considering it's something the community has been asking for for years, there is definitely a measure of irony here.
I will admit this is the first time I have seen someone complaining that there is too MUCH diversity in a class and that a class can play any of the three archetypes. Considering it's something the community has been asking for for years, there is definitely a measure of irony here.
Yes variety in Multiple viable archtypes in multiple viable classes, There should not be a 50% match rate against a single class
I will admit this is the first time I have seen someone complaining that there is too MUCH diversity in a class and that a class can play any of the three archetypes. Considering it's something the community has been asking for for years, there is definitely a measure of irony here.
Yes variety in Multiple viable archtypes in multiple viable classes, There should not be a 50% match rate against a single class
When Death Knight is essentially multiple subclasses in one class with the Rune mechanic, you’re gonna face a lot of DKs since there’s something for everyone. Plus with the new year rotation the class is still new for a lot of people. While it can be annoying to face the same class over and over again (I still have nightmares of Jade Golem Druid) at least with DK there’s variety. You’re not facing the same archetype everytime so it’s fresh everytime
Need I remind you of the first couple of months Demon Hunter launched and how DH dominated the meta with one, I repeat, ONE aggro deck that killed everyone at turn 6 without fail that the class had to undergo nerfs daily? Versus DK that actually needed buffs during its first couple of months. Team 5 did their best to make sure what happened with DH didn’t happen again and they did a damn good job.
I will admit this is the first time I have seen someone complaining that there is too MUCH diversity in a class and that a class can play any of the three archetypes. Considering it's something the community has been asking for for years, there is definitely a measure of irony here.
Yes variety in Multiple viable archtypes in multiple viable classes, There should not be a 50% match rate against a single class
It's possible I misunderstand your meaning, but the absolute goal of balance in Hearthstone is for there to be a 50% win-chance between any and all classes. That would represent the pinnacle of game balance.
I will admit this is the first time I have seen someone complaining that there is too MUCH diversity in a class and that a class can play any of the three archetypes. Considering it's something the community has been asking for for years, there is definitely a measure of irony here.
Yes variety in Multiple viable archtypes in multiple viable classes, There should not be a 50% match rate against a single class
It's possible I misunderstand your meaning, but the absolute goal of balance in Hearthstone is for there to be a 50% win-chance between any and all classes. That would represent the pinnacle of game balance.
you did misinterpret, what i said is 50% of the matches played include a DK right now in plat+
I will admit this is the first time I have seen someone complaining that there is too MUCH diversity in a class and that a class can play any of the three archetypes. Considering it's something the community has been asking for for years, there is definitely a measure of irony here.
I must admit it is the next level of blindness to see this as a complaining about diversity.
Death Knight is the class that let me play control without feeling bad after years of the game punish for being a Priest control main.
I am fine with nerf to Frost and some blood cards i dont really care as long as they dont overkill the littlepool of cards we have tho.
Its a control deck in a meta where it and its aggro variant have no true counter. you can't just play "x deck if you're running into too much dk" because 50%+ (if not actually 70+%) of the matches you will play will be against frost or blood dk so you can only slightly counter one of them at a time, but even then they still probably beat you 51%+ since none of them have an astronomically low win rate against anything.
your only options are play homebrew and lose 51%+ of your matches
play blood dk or frost dk and just mirror match most the night where you probably will win against most homebrews and have 40-60% against any other DKs
play pure pally and prey countess rolls beat either of those two decks(or you manage to outrace them) and actually have a little fun against homebrews
or play something else meta and try to creep up your rank with a 50.1% winrate vs these decks with a 60+% win rate
This is what Blizzard wanted. We discussed this when DK first came out - it wasn’t #1 in win rate, so they buffed some of the cards. Now it’s dominating the field. Want to compete? Gotta buy Path of Arthas. $$$
Death Knight is the class that let me play control without feeling bad after years of the game punish for being a Priest control main.
I am fine with nerf to Frost and some blood cards i dont really care as long as they dont overkill the littlepool of cards we have tho.
Its a control deck in a meta where it and its aggro variant have no true counter. you can't just play "x deck if you're running into too much dk" because 50%+ (if not actually 70+%) of the matches you will play will be against frost or blood dk so you can only slightly counter one of them at a time, but even then they still probably beat you 51%+ since none of them have an astronomically low win rate against anything.
your only options are play homebrew and lose 51%+ of your matches
play blood dk or frost dk and just mirror match most the night where you probably will win against most homebrews and have 40-60% against any other DKs
play pure pally and prey countess rolls beat either of those two decks(or you manage to outrace them) and actually have a little fun against homebrews
or play something else meta and try to creep up your rank with a 50.1% winrate vs these decks with a 60+% win rate
Or play Demon Hunter/ Druid that also beat DK. But i agree. Yeah its a meta were you play control or you play Palodon. But we have a meta just in this past were you play control and you lose 100% of the times to every_single_deck. Do you imagine how i feel in those months? Lose to Demon Hunter OTKS went i already success un surviving 1 turn but my oponent wins anyways because infinite face damage. Lose to mage because infinite burn and card generation. Lose to aggro because AoEs being too slow. lose to Druid because every f*king late game deck lose to druid. Lose even to Pirate warrior because teching for the other matches makes my deck worse against go wide go face non-stop.
We, control players, are also unhappy with the game meta design. The difference is that i am not really against nerfing my class. Tuned it down if you want. But next time someone complain about the aggro/combo meta, remember you also deserve nerf.
Edit: just to point it the best DK deck is not even blood, is Frost the Burn dumb deck that is just what Spell mage was in their strong days.
So I had been grinding up to D6 in standard with a midrange deck i cooked up that’s pretty successful. Or at least it was pretty successful until today when I played 10 games, 9 of which were against Death Knights. My problem isn’t the popularity of the class (they didn’t lose a single class card during the set rotation and their core sets are obscenely powerful, why would anyone expect any different) but I do take issue in the fact that they have three prevalent meta decks - two of which are tier 1 - that can either be aggro, control, or combo. This makes it impossible to even MULLIGAN against them. I’m swapping removal to start aggressively — then I see it’s triple Blood. I keep the removal the next game — but this one is running Frost OTK. Okay let’s tech in something to mess with their game plan — that’s now bricked in my hand because this next one is unholy aggro. I’m glad that the DK experiment is working out so well that all three times can find a spot in the meta to varying degrees, but can we get any sort of potential counter play here?
My last 28 games - 14 DKs, 1 DH, 2 Druids, 3 Pala, 2 Priests, 4 Rogues, 2 Warriors.
Great meta...
And no, there is no unholy DK, 50% meta are just Blood and Frost DK. It's just sad that this expansion is so overshadowed by busted cards from the previous one.
Wait until you get to legend. It's not quite MotLK level with just Rogue and DH, but there are like 80% Death Knights, most of which are Blood.
Frost DK is the most annoying one among the 3, then Blood DK.
Unholy DK is tolerable, because it does fight fairly for the board and is closest to classic Hearthstone.
I am at legend.
I would actually be okay with DK if it weren't all the same Hearthstone replay netdecks. No one even tries to go even slightly outside of the carbon copy rank 1 legend streamer build.
Well, there are still 3 DK decks over 50%. The problem is 6 classes have 0 such decks.
But... but... but WAIT! All the DK apologist trolls on here SWEAR there's not a single DK deck anywhere in the upper reaches of the ladder... so that means they don't need ANY balancing or anything done to their cards...
... I know they're full of shit, but I'm happy at least to see someone posting it and calling them out for it.
I will admit this is the first time I have seen someone complaining that there is too MUCH diversity in a class and that a class can play any of the three archetypes.
Considering it's something the community has been asking for for years, there is definitely a measure of irony here.
Yes variety in Multiple viable archtypes in multiple viable classes, There should not be a 50% match rate against a single class
When Death Knight is essentially multiple subclasses in one class with the Rune mechanic, you’re gonna face a lot of DKs since there’s something for everyone. Plus with the new year rotation the class is still new for a lot of people. While it can be annoying to face the same class over and over again (I still have nightmares of Jade Golem Druid) at least with DK there’s variety. You’re not facing the same archetype everytime so it’s fresh everytime
Need I remind you of the first couple of months Demon Hunter launched and how DH dominated the meta with one, I repeat, ONE aggro deck that killed everyone at turn 6 without fail that the class had to undergo nerfs daily? Versus DK that actually needed buffs during its first couple of months. Team 5 did their best to make sure what happened with DH didn’t happen again and they did a damn good job.
It's possible I misunderstand your meaning, but the absolute goal of balance in Hearthstone is for there to be a 50% win-chance between any and all classes. That would represent the pinnacle of game balance.
you did misinterpret, what i said is 50% of the matches played include a DK right now in plat+
I must admit it is the next level of blindness to see this as a complaining about diversity.
Death Knight is the class that let me play control without feeling bad after years of the game punish for being a Priest control main.
I am fine with nerf to Frost and some blood cards i dont really care as long as they dont over kill the little pool of cards we have tho.
Its a control deck in a meta where it and its aggro variant have no true counter. you can't just play "x deck if you're running into too much dk" because 50%+ (if not actually 70+%) of the matches you will play will be against frost or blood dk so you can only slightly counter one of them at a time, but even then they still probably beat you 51%+ since none of them have an astronomically low win rate against anything.
your only options are play homebrew and lose 51%+ of your matches
play blood dk or frost dk and just mirror match most the night where you probably will win against most homebrews and have 40-60% against any other DKs
play pure pally and prey countess rolls beat either of those two decks(or you manage to outrace them) and actually have a little fun against homebrews
or play something else meta and try to creep up your rank with a 50.1% winrate vs these decks with a 60+% win rate
This is what Blizzard wanted. We discussed this when DK first came out - it wasn’t #1 in win rate, so they buffed some of the cards. Now it’s dominating the field. Want to compete? Gotta buy Path of Arthas. $$$
I saved this image for whenever Timmy cries about aggro meta.
Or play Demon Hunter/ Druid that also beat DK. But i agree. Yeah its a meta were you play control or you play Palodon. But we have a meta just in this past were you play control and you lose 100% of the times to every_single_deck. Do you imagine how i feel in those months? Lose to Demon Hunter OTKS went i already success un surviving 1 turn but my oponent wins anyways because infinite face damage. Lose to mage because infinite burn and card generation. Lose to aggro because AoEs being too slow. lose to Druid because every f*king late game deck lose to druid. Lose even to Pirate warrior because teching for the other matches makes my deck worse against go wide go face non-stop.
We, control players, are also unhappy with the game meta design. The difference is that i am not really against nerfing my class. Tuned it down if you want. But next time someone complain about the aggro/combo meta, remember you also deserve nerf.
Edit: just to point it the best DK deck is not even blood, is Frost the Burn dumb deck that is just what Spell mage was in their strong days.
Well, no, you play Paladin, Shadow Priest, Frost DK, Miracle Rogue. It's definitely not a control meta, just look at lineups of last tournament.