INTRO: As all of you will know, there are so many old Legendaries that either always have been bad or are bad in today's state of Hearthstone. So I looked up HSReplay to find the currently WORST Legendaries in the game (I do go strictly by the list). I tried to come up with ways to make them more playable (in Wild and also if they were to be put into Standard right now) without always just changing stats. Because most of the time, when there are buffs, the current design team only goes the easy route and adds or substracts a few stats on a card. I think that is very lazy. Also it would be more challenging if I need to re-design the card instead of just making it cheaper.
So let me know your thoughts on my re-designs. Would these cards see play now? Would you change them differently?
Cho'gall is on the very bottom of Hearthstone right now, but also easy to fix. Let's just give him twice the effect. This leaves room for combo potential and also he is a two headed ogre, so it fits flavorwise:
Icehowl has Charge but can not go face .... let's change that in a non-broken way that keeps in mind what was originally intended:
For Millhouse Manastorm I had many ideas, but stuck with combining his old and new design. Originally he was a 2/2 that should give you a spell called MEGA-BLAST!!!, which was 10 mana and would deal 5 damage to all enemies. So I updated him, that now you always want to have 10 mana when playing him:
For Harbinger Celestia I also went through many versions, always trying to keep in mind what was inteded while still making it somewhat playable. Now it is treated as Mirror Entity when played (therefore I needed to change the cost) and keeps being a Secret until the start of your next turn. So when your opponent does not play a minion, the Secret triggers at the start of your turn and summons Harbinger Celestia with an upside:
With Prince Taldaram there was not much design space, so I tried to just give it a fitting bonus effect that is also ok for the cost:
Glinda Crowskin was actually good as long as echoed cards could be reduced to 0. Now it seems like it sees no play at all, so I gave it a bonus that seemed helpful for what it wants to do and should still not interfere with the current version of Echo:
Troggzor the Earthinator has a powerful effect, but only if it sticks, so maybe this version would see some play:
Octosari was really hard to improve, especially with it's octopus design and animation that would pull the cards from the top of your deck. Thought about giving it Taunt, but was not sure if this was enough, so instead I got inspired by it's artwork, where it is seemingly appearing out of nowhere and raising havoc. So I added a familiar effect that would make it more flexible:
Anub'arak has an interesting design, but does not have any real impact when played in the late game. So I made him a more defensive card without pushing too far:
Hallazeal the Ascended does not seem too bad at first, but healing alone is just not good enough, so ...:
Mekgineer Thermaplugg was also a hard card to balance. First I just wanted to give it the ability to spawn a Leper Gnome whenever any minion dies, but that would be far too broken with Defile, so I had to tune back:
For Soggoth the Slitherer I maybe should have reduced the mana cost too, but at least this new combination of Keywords makes it a lot better:
For Sherazin, Corpse Flower I had the idea, that it would also always attack when it is revived, but in the end thought this would be too strong. So I just changed the condition of revival:
For Toki, Time-Tinker I came up with two versions. One that actually travels through time and another one, that more resembles the original design of the card:
Good old Temporus does not really seem redeemable, so I added one thing that still could help to carry you through the hard phase:
In the end I could still add to the list for a while, but I will finish here. Hope you had some fun :)
I'm glad you are not balancing the game. I'm sorry but these are hot garbage and don't make sense.
Giving a good effect on top of the card effect is not "improving" a card, it's lazy and in a consistency viewpoint it doesn't make sense, aside from flooding the card text. Temporus acting as a self full heal on top of it's effect is dumb, doesn't fit with the card and it's just a lazy and unengaging way of buffing a card Toki being a 0 5/5 on turn 1 it's not fun to deal with, aside from being stupidly unbalanced (and losing your 5th turn is NOT a good consequence of having her in your deck). Hallazeal has +2 spell damage on top of his effect, again, adding a good effect on top of the other effect is lazy and not a real buff, besides the card doesn't even need a buff.
The rest are just again, other words on top of their normal effect, but even with these buffs these cards would still see NO play, none of these changes are good enough and don't even fit an archetype, cards are put in your deck for synergies or powerful effects, these don't fit any
The one card i do like is Cho'Gall, but even with that effect it still would not see play, too expensive for the cost and warlock is not known for having expensive spells to use, aside from the card also being powercreeped by Bloodbloom, which was nerfed for breaking wild
Why so harsh? :( OP made a decent contribution, spent a lot of time on it, and it's not bad actually. The fact that this game has gone to shit due to the toilet-playing teenagers is one of the reasons why cards like these don't see play. The other reason is the incompetent and greedy design team. Bad legendaries make you spend more money to have a chance at the good ones.
I'm glad you are not balancing the game. I'm sorry but these are hot garbage and don't make sense.
Giving a good effect on top of the card effect is not "improving" a card, it's lazy and in a consistency viewpoint it doesn't make sense, aside from flooding the card text. Temporus acting as a self full heal on top of it's effect is dumb, doesn't fit with the card and it's just a lazy and unengaging way of buffing a card Toki being a 0 5/5 on turn 1 it's not fun to deal with, aside from being stupidly unbalanced (and losing your 5th turn is NOT a good consequence of having her in your deck). Hallazeal has +2 spell damage on top of his effect, again, adding a good effect on top of the other effect is lazy and not a real buff, besides the card doesn't even need a buff.
The rest are just again, other words on top of their normal effect, but even with these buffs these cards would still see NO play, none of these changes are good enough and don't even fit an archetype, cards are put in your deck for synergies or powerful effects, these don't fit any
The one card i do like is Cho'Gall, but even with that effect it still would not see play, too expensive for the cost and warlock is not known for having expensive spells to use, aside from the card also being powercreeped by Bloodbloom, which was nerfed for breaking wild
It’s not good card design to be honest. Really uninteractive and honestly, quite typical with the current design of Hearthstone. Wouldn’t be surprised to see something similar at some point in the real game.
To be fair to the OP though… probably the only card he’s re-designed that I dislike. Some good ideas within there. Still think quite a few wouldn’t see play, but they’re definitely more interesting.
My main gripe with this list is that Prince Taldaram does see some play in combo decks as a cheaper alternative to Faceless Manipulator. I'd argue that Prince Valanar is the least playable out of the 3 Princes.
Giving a good effect on top of the card effect is not "improving" a card, it's lazy and in a consistency viewpoint it doesn't make sense, aside from flooding the card text.
My thought was: how can I make these cards (kind of) playable WITHOUT changing them completely or inventing new custom cards? I wanted to keep the original stats, because I find it interesting what it would take to make them be playable at these exact costs! And for the most part I also tried to NOT give them any broken effects, because THAT would be lazy. Imagine me giving Millhouse the ability "Manathirst (10): Your spells cost (0) this turn instead." or just suggesting they should revert the Echo Mechanic for Glinda ....
Temporus acting as a self full heal on top of it's effect is dumb, doesn't fit with the card and it's just a lazy and unengaging way of buffing a card
Would you be more ok with Temporus fully healing both players? Also thought about that. Then it would fit the flavor more: He would soft-reboot the game and then give both players a chance to strike. Otherwise, how would you buff the card? Or would you say he is just not redeemable?
Toki being a 0 5/5 on turn 1 it's not fun to deal with, aside from being stupidly unbalanced (and losing your 5th turn is NOT a good consequence of having her in your deck).
The first version of Toki is actually more like a different card then a rework and more of a thought experiment: how could you design a time traveling card? It's not to be taken too seriously. Even though I don't think it would be THAT broken.
Hallazeal has +2 spell damage on top of his effect, again, adding a good effect on top of the other effect is lazy and not a real buff, besides the card doesn't even need a buff.
HSReplay says it's in 0% of decks and has a deck winrate of 33,3% over the last 14 days.
The one card i do like is Cho'Gall, but even with that effect it still would not see play, too expensive for the cost and warlock is not known for having expensive spells to use, aside from the card also being powercreeped by Bloodbloom, which was nerfed for breaking wild
Cho'gall I actually like a lot how I re-designed it. The other options would have been, that ALL your spells cost mana instead of health this turn - which would be broken - or that his original effect carries over to your next turn, like with Tour Guide - which on the other hand is not strong enough. I do think that he could see play like I designed him. But I also do appreciate your opinion, because that is one answer to my thought experiment: they still would not be good enough like this.
My main gripe with this list is that Prince Taldaram does see some play in combo decks as a cheaper alternative to Faceless Manipulator. I'd argue that Prince Valanar is the least playable out of the 3 Princes.
HSReplay says it's in 0.1% of decks and has a deck winrate of 24,1% within the last 14 days. That's the reason it is on the list. But it is actually the card I like least when it comes to my re-designs. I should have made it an option to Silence or not to Silence - like "then choose to Silence it." and two options showing up on the screen - instead.
I think you successfully made Icehowl and Prince Taldaram worse. Taldaram especially - it completely misses why you ran Taldaram in the first place. You want to copy your own high value stuff with Taldaram, not your opponent's.
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INTRO: As all of you will know, there are so many old Legendaries that either always have been bad or are bad in today's state of Hearthstone. So I looked up HSReplay to find the currently WORST Legendaries in the game (I do go strictly by the list). I tried to come up with ways to make them more playable (in Wild and also if they were to be put into Standard right now) without always just changing stats. Because most of the time, when there are buffs, the current design team only goes the easy route and adds or substracts a few stats on a card. I think that is very lazy. Also it would be more challenging if I need to re-design the card instead of just making it cheaper.
So let me know your thoughts on my re-designs. Would these cards see play now? Would you change them differently?
Cho'gall is on the very bottom of Hearthstone right now, but also easy to fix. Let's just give him twice the effect. This leaves room for combo potential and also he is a two headed ogre, so it fits flavorwise:
Icehowl has Charge but can not go face .... let's change that in a non-broken way that keeps in mind what was originally intended:
For Millhouse Manastorm I had many ideas, but stuck with combining his old and new design. Originally he was a 2/2 that should give you a spell called MEGA-BLAST!!!, which was 10 mana and would deal 5 damage to all enemies. So I updated him, that now you always want to have 10 mana when playing him:
For Harbinger Celestia I also went through many versions, always trying to keep in mind what was inteded while still making it somewhat playable. Now it is treated as Mirror Entity when played (therefore I needed to change the cost) and keeps being a Secret until the start of your next turn. So when your opponent does not play a minion, the Secret triggers at the start of your turn and summons Harbinger Celestia with an upside:
With Prince Taldaram there was not much design space, so I tried to just give it a fitting bonus effect that is also ok for the cost:
Glinda Crowskin was actually good as long as echoed cards could be reduced to 0. Now it seems like it sees no play at all, so I gave it a bonus that seemed helpful for what it wants to do and should still not interfere with the current version of Echo:
Troggzor the Earthinator has a powerful effect, but only if it sticks, so maybe this version would see some play:
Octosari was really hard to improve, especially with it's octopus design and animation that would pull the cards from the top of your deck. Thought about giving it Taunt, but was not sure if this was enough, so instead I got inspired by it's artwork, where it is seemingly appearing out of nowhere and raising havoc. So I added a familiar effect that would make it more flexible:
Anub'arak has an interesting design, but does not have any real impact when played in the late game. So I made him a more defensive card without pushing too far:
Hallazeal the Ascended does not seem too bad at first, but healing alone is just not good enough, so ...:
Mekgineer Thermaplugg was also a hard card to balance. First I just wanted to give it the ability to spawn a Leper Gnome whenever any minion dies, but that would be far too broken with Defile, so I had to tune back:
For Soggoth the Slitherer I maybe should have reduced the mana cost too, but at least this new combination of Keywords makes it a lot better:
For Sherazin, Corpse Flower I had the idea, that it would also always attack when it is revived, but in the end thought this would be too strong. So I just changed the condition of revival:
For Toki, Time-Tinker I came up with two versions. One that actually travels through time and another one, that more resembles the original design of the card:
Good old Temporus does not really seem redeemable, so I added one thing that still could help to carry you through the hard phase:
In the end I could still add to the list for a while, but I will finish here. Hope you had some fun :)
The free 5/5 Toki seems a bit broken imo
Can win on it's own
I'm glad you are not balancing the game. I'm sorry but these are hot garbage and don't make sense.
Giving a good effect on top of the card effect is not "improving" a card, it's lazy and in a consistency viewpoint it doesn't make sense, aside from flooding the card text.
Temporus acting as a self full heal on top of it's effect is dumb, doesn't fit with the card and it's just a lazy and unengaging way of buffing a card
Toki being a 0 5/5 on turn 1 it's not fun to deal with, aside from being stupidly unbalanced (and losing your 5th turn is NOT a good consequence of having her in your deck).
Hallazeal has +2 spell damage on top of his effect, again, adding a good effect on top of the other effect is lazy and not a real buff, besides the card doesn't even need a buff.
The rest are just again, other words on top of their normal effect, but even with these buffs these cards would still see NO play, none of these changes are good enough and don't even fit an archetype, cards are put in your deck for synergies or powerful effects, these don't fit any
The one card i do like is Cho'Gall, but even with that effect it still would not see play, too expensive for the cost and warlock is not known for having expensive spells to use, aside from the card also being powercreeped by Bloodbloom, which was nerfed for breaking wild
Why so harsh? :( OP made a decent contribution, spent a lot of time on it, and it's not bad actually. The fact that this game has gone to shit due to the toilet-playing teenagers is one of the reasons why cards like these don't see play. The other reason is the incompetent and greedy design team. Bad legendaries make you spend more money to have a chance at the good ones.
Bit rude mate.
It can also lose on its own.
It’s not good card design to be honest. Really uninteractive and honestly, quite typical with the current design of Hearthstone. Wouldn’t be surprised to see something similar at some point in the real game.
To be fair to the OP though… probably the only card he’s re-designed that I dislike. Some good ideas within there. Still think quite a few wouldn’t see play, but they’re definitely more interesting.
My main gripe with this list is that Prince Taldaram does see some play in combo decks as a cheaper alternative to Faceless Manipulator. I'd argue that Prince Valanar is the least playable out of the 3 Princes.
My thought was: how can I make these cards (kind of) playable WITHOUT changing them completely or inventing new custom cards? I wanted to keep the original stats, because I find it interesting what it would take to make them be playable at these exact costs! And for the most part I also tried to NOT give them any broken effects, because THAT would be lazy. Imagine me giving Millhouse the ability "Manathirst (10): Your spells cost (0) this turn instead." or just suggesting they should revert the Echo Mechanic for Glinda ....
Would you be more ok with Temporus fully healing both players? Also thought about that. Then it would fit the flavor more: He would soft-reboot the game and then give both players a chance to strike. Otherwise, how would you buff the card? Or would you say he is just not redeemable?
The first version of Toki is actually more like a different card then a rework and more of a thought experiment: how could you design a time traveling card? It's not to be taken too seriously. Even though I don't think it would be THAT broken.
HSReplay says it's in 0% of decks and has a deck winrate of 33,3% over the last 14 days.
Cho'gall I actually like a lot how I re-designed it. The other options would have been, that ALL your spells cost mana instead of health this turn - which would be broken - or that his original effect carries over to your next turn, like with Tour Guide - which on the other hand is not strong enough. I do think that he could see play like I designed him. But I also do appreciate your opinion, because that is one answer to my thought experiment: they still would not be good enough like this.
HSReplay says it's in 0.1% of decks and has a deck winrate of 24,1% within the last 14 days. That's the reason it is on the list. But it is actually the card I like least when it comes to my re-designs. I should have made it an option to Silence or not to Silence - like "then choose to Silence it." and two options showing up on the screen - instead.
I think you successfully made Icehowl and Prince Taldaram worse. Taldaram especially - it completely misses why you ran Taldaram in the first place. You want to copy your own high value stuff with Taldaram, not your opponent's.