This kind of things happens too frequently and this is why it's a problem, such as Turn 3 Neptulon with Big Priest in wild, and it's not ok, it's toxic and not fun at all.
While rogue can highroll, this scenario doesn't happen too often. Some decks require more skill to pilot: there's a better rogue deck, for example, that can consistently present a threatening board. Piloting that one is not very easy, and feel free to show me video proof that you pilot it perfectly. highroll decks may or may not require skill. The skill is necessary in those games where you don't draw "the nuts", but you still win by finding your win condition.
There's also skill in open cups, where even if you netdeck all your decks, it's important to find the best combination of classes and winning strategy. Piloting many classes is also a skill.
You use the word on a very surface level, a limited discussion that seems to have the answers yes or no, when in reality we can discuss the range of skill required, because the world is not binary.
This kind of things happens too frequently and this is why it's a problem, such as Turn 3 Neptulon with Big Priest in wild, and it's not ok, it's toxic and not fun at all.
yeah but people will tell you that YoU dOn'T sEe BiG pRiEsT qUiTe OfTeN tHoUgH.
While rogue can highroll, this scenario doesn't happen too often. Some decks require more skill to pilot: there's a better rogue deck, for example, that can consistently present a threatening board. Piloting that one is not very easy, and feel free to show me video proof that you pilot it perfectly. highroll decks may or may not require skill. The skill is necessary in those games where you don't draw "the nuts", but you still win by finding your win condition.
There's also skill in open cups, where even if you netdeck all your decks, it's important to find the best combination of classes and winning strategy. Piloting many classes is also a skill.
You use the word on a very surface level, a limited discussion that seems to have the answers yes or no, when in reality we can discuss the range of skill required, because the world is not binary.
Thank you for this more people need to read and understand posts like this. So many people can only see 5 inches in front of their face especially when frustrated. This game absolutely has a skill gap/curve and it's noticeable in nearly every rank of the game but mostly at high legend. To OP's credit the decks dominating the meta game right now are so unbalanced or overplayed that the thinking behind most plays is no longer required. The sad thing is most pros and streamers still dictate the meta and very few players actually spend the time and patience to build a deck of their own that works.
The sad thing is most pros and streamers still dictate the meta and very few players actually spend the time and patience to build a deck of their own that works.
Sorry, I'm throwing the BS flag here. The reason you see "netdecks" is because the decks they create (which they "actually spend the time and patience to build") ARE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE. Why? Because the current crop of cards in Standard provide sufficient support for said decks. There's a reason you don't see an Undead Hunter or Pirate Shaman. You'd have to be an idiot to try to ladder with it.
I'd venture to bet that most people, if they bothered, could come up with a Quest DH deck that is 95% identical to the "meta" deck that a streamer puts together. It's not that hard. So why waste valuable time reinventing the wheel? I could grow my own food, but I'd rather go to the grocery store.
I swear, some people think it takes some deep brilliance to put together a deck of 30 cards. It's not rocket science.
Agree I just got back after 2 years for DK and the game is worse than ever. I'm gonna hit lvl 100 on the battle pass and quit again and play something that requires half a brain and some skills. There are loads of games out there allot of them free , not gonna waste time on something like this like I used to and be annoyed all the time or hope for better times.
The sad thing is most pros and streamers still dictate the meta and very few players actually spend the time and patience to build a deck of their own that works.
Sorry, I'm throwing the BS flag here. The reason you see "netdecks" is because the decks they create (which they "actually spend the time and patience to build") ARE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE. Why? Because the current crop of cards in Standard provide sufficient support for said decks. There's a reason you don't see an Undead Hunter or Pirate Shaman. You'd have to be an idiot to try to ladder with it.
I'd venture to bet that most people, if they bothered, could come up with a Quest DH deck that is 95% identical to the "meta" deck that a streamer puts together. It's not that hard. So why waste valuable time reinventing the wheel? I could grow my own food, but I'd rather go to the grocery store.
I swear, some people think it takes some deep brilliance to put together a deck of 30 cards. It's not rocket science.
No it's not rocket science and yet everyone just copies tier 1 and 2 decks from HS replay or any other deck site. I wouldn't call it deep brilliance but yes players need a deeper understanding of the game to build a deck that functions well from top to bottom (early game to late game). I'd say 1 out of every 10 games do i see someone using a meta deck that has a single different card than the net deck version. At a certain point it becomes so easy to counter because every turn is so predictable. Judging by the fact that you've posted no decks on this site and you've been a member since 2016 leads me to believe you've always copied others decks and you're trying to justify not taking the effort to do it yourself.
The sad thing is most pros and streamers still dictate the meta and very few players actually spend the time and patience to build a deck of their own that works.
Sorry, I'm throwing the BS flag here. The reason you see "netdecks" is because the decks they create (which they "actually spend the time and patience to build") ARE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE. Why? Because the current crop of cards in Standard provide sufficient support for said decks. There's a reason you don't see an Undead Hunter or Pirate Shaman. You'd have to be an idiot to try to ladder with it.
I'd venture to bet that most people, if they bothered, could come up with a Quest DH deck that is 95% identical to the "meta" deck that a streamer puts together. It's not that hard. So why waste valuable time reinventing the wheel? I could grow my own food, but I'd rather go to the grocery store.
I swear, some people think it takes some deep brilliance to put together a deck of 30 cards. It's not rocket science.
No it's not rocket science and yet everyone just copies tier 1 and 2 decks from HS replay or any other deck site. I wouldn't call it deep brilliance but yes players need a deeper understanding of the game to build a deck that functions well from top to bottom (early game to late game). I'd say 1 out of every 10 games do i see someone using a meta deck that has a single different card than the net deck version. At a certain point it becomes so easy to counter because every turn is so predictable. Judging by the fact that you've posted no decks on this site and you've been a member since 2016 leads me to believe you've always copied others decks and you're trying to justify not taking the effort to do it yourself.
1) No, actually, you don't need "a deeper understanding of the game" to build a good deck. You need a few functioning brain cells and some experience playing the game. To take a dated example, look at Mech Mage. Do you honestly want to tell me that creating that deck takes a deep understanding of the game? Any idiot could create that deck in 10 minutes. Over time, people realized that certain cards weren't very good in the deck, but that's a change at the margin. The basic wincon and play choices remained pretty steady. I realize some people need to feel like they're special by saying "I create my own decks," but in most cases, they've taken 28 cards shared by all decks of that archetype, tossed in a couple different cards, and walked away telling themselves they're better than everyone else.
2) That said, the very term netdeck is stupid. As an example, I looked up deck lists for the contemporary version of Miracle Rogue. Some of the decks use Necrolord Draka, others use Astalor Bloodsworn. Some use Gone Fishin', some Tooth of Nefarian. So, which one's the netdeck? Look at any of the major archetypes and you'll find the same: 90% identical, with a few differences (often tech cards). When most people complain about netdecks, what they're really complaining about is the fact that the number of high-performing archetypes is too small.
3) As for your snide little deckbuilding comment, here's a news flash for you: One can, in fact, create a deck without posting it here. Those are two separate things. I do, periodically, create decks entirely of my own, mostly to play either in Casual or at a floor in Ladder. If I'm looking to climb the ladder, I'll typically look at 4-5 different version of the deck I'm interested in playing to see what cards are in common and which ones are different. The cards that all the decks have in common are usually going to account for 27 or 28 of the cards in the deck. Then, I'll make a decision about what the final couple of cards will be. That decision will depend on a) what cards I have/ what I'd need to craft and b) what decks I have been seeing on ladder. Does that make me a hated "netdecker?" I don't know and I don't care. I'm having fun and succeeding. In the interest of full disclosure, I will confess that sometimes I find a deck that looks good and fun, so I copy it entirely. I sure hope that doesn't make you lose respect for me. /sarcasm
4) While we're on the subject of people's decks, I took a look at yours. Yeah, I see what you mean. That N'Zoth Deathrattle Hunter was really cutting edge. I'm sure no one else thought of it. Same for your Quest DH. I'm blown away.
The sad thing is most pros and streamers still dictate the meta and very few players actually spend the time and patience to build a deck of their own that works.
Sorry, I'm throwing the BS flag here. The reason you see "netdecks" is because the decks they create (which they "actually spend the time and patience to build") ARE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE. Why? Because the current crop of cards in Standard provide sufficient support for said decks. There's a reason you don't see an Undead Hunter or Pirate Shaman. You'd have to be an idiot to try to ladder with it.
I'd venture to bet that most people, if they bothered, could come up with a Quest DH deck that is 95% identical to the "meta" deck that a streamer puts together. It's not that hard. So why waste valuable time reinventing the wheel? I could grow my own food, but I'd rather go to the grocery store.
I swear, some people think it takes some deep brilliance to put together a deck of 30 cards. It's not rocket science.
No it's not rocket science and yet everyone just copies tier 1 and 2 decks from HS replay or any other deck site. I wouldn't call it deep brilliance but yes players need a deeper understanding of the game to build a deck that functions well from top to bottom (early game to late game). I'd say 1 out of every 10 games do i see someone using a meta deck that has a single different card than the net deck version. At a certain point it becomes so easy to counter because every turn is so predictable. Judging by the fact that you've posted no decks on this site and you've been a member since 2016 leads me to believe you've always copied others decks and you're trying to justify not taking the effort to do it yourself.
1) No, actually, you don't need "a deeper understanding of the game" to build a good deck. You need a few functioning brain cells and some experience playing the game. To take a dated example, look at Mech Mage. Do you honestly want to tell me that creating that deck takes a deep understanding of the game? Any idiot could create that deck in 10 minutes. Over time, people realized that certain cards weren't very good in the deck, but that's a change at the margin. The basic wincon and play choices remained pretty steady. I realize some people need to feel like they're special by saying "I create my own decks," but in most cases, they've taken 28 cards shared by all decks of that archetype, tossed in a couple different cards, and walked away telling themselves they're better than everyone else.
2) That said, the very term netdeck is stupid. As an example, I looked up deck lists for the contemporary version of Miracle Rogue. Some of the decks use Necrolord Draka, others use Astalor Bloodsworn. Some use Gone Fishin', some Tooth of Nefarian. So, which one's the netdeck? Look at any of the major archetypes and you'll find the same: 90% identical, with a few differences (often tech cards). When most people complain about netdecks, what they're really complaining about is the fact that the number of high-performing archetypes is too small.
3) As for your snide little deckbuilding comment, here's a news flash for you: One can, in fact, create a deck without posting it here. Those are two separate things. I do, periodically, create decks entirely of my own, mostly to play either in Casual or at a floor in Ladder. If I'm looking to climb the ladder, I'll typically look at 4-5 different version of the deck I'm interested in playing to see what cards are in common and which ones are different. The cards that all the decks have in common are usually going to account for 27 or 28 of the cards in the deck. Then, I'll make a decision about what the final couple of cards will be. That decision will depend on a) what cards I have/ what I'd need to craft and b) what decks I have been seeing on ladder. Does that make me a hated "netdecker?" I don't know and I don't care. I'm having fun and succeeding. In the interest of full disclosure, I will confess that sometimes I find a deck that looks good and fun, so I copy it entirely. I sure hope that doesn't make you lose respect for me. /sarcasm
4) While we're on the subject of people's decks, I took a look at yours. Yeah, I see what you mean. That N'Zoth Deathrattle Hunter was really cutting edge. I'm sure no one else thought of it. Same for your Quest DH. I'm blown away.
It does take much more to build a deck from scratch. Especially in wild were you have much more cards and nearly anything can reach at least d5 if not legend if built correct. And that might depend on a single card or two. And no, the decks I built don’t share 27 cards with meta decks :D
people saying stuff like this happen only in wild really have no clue. In standard this stuff happens too. Not in the extend of this amount of stats on the board but still enough stats to make you auto lose.
Turn 5 Hydralodon. If you manage to counter that you run into many Wildseeds and eventually getting ended by 2 or more Shockspitter . There is no fun in playing a deck this powerful when other classes don't have as much gas as hunter does. And yet Blizzard just doesn't do anything for weeks or months.
I think Shockspitterwill hit the nerfbat by the end of this month but even then hunter is ridiculously powerful.
It does take much more to build a deck from scratch. Especially in wild were you have much more cards and nearly anything can reach at least d5 if not legend if built correct. And that might depend on a single card or two. And no, the decks I built don’t share 27 cards with meta decks :D
Again, depends on the archetype. If you're building a well-established archetype (say, Even Shaman), it really doesn't take much more knowledge. If, on the other hand, you're coming up with some completely new, off-meta deck (Pirate Shaman), then yes, you'll need to spend more time refining it so that it can compete in the meta. But even then, we're not talking about some deep knowledge of the inner workings of HS. We're mostly talking about trial and error. (In that case, probably a lot of error.)
My issue with TMRobinson's post is his insinuation that a) deck builders are superior to the unwashed masses that use meta decks; and b) that everyone SHOULD build their own decks. It's a stupid and insulting position. To use a personal example, my favorite hobby is brewing beer. And I'm actually pretty freaking good at it. I've won several homebrew awards and am constantly being bugged by friends for for a few bottles of my latest batch. But I don't strut around saying, "You can't really appreciate beer unless you make your own, like me. Beer drinking would be so much better if people were like me. Aren't I special?" If you like to buy beer, great. (Hell, most of the beer I drink I buy.) But, for me, making my own is fun.
HS is a game: games exist to have fun. People telling other people how to have fun need to STFU.
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Turn 4 lethal.
No thinking, no skill, no nothing. JUst coin drop that broken card that seems unnerfed = gg.
TURN 4..........
you know the worst thing?
I would lose if he dropped that card before me and do the same thing...
so that means that this game is just a coin flip.
theres no skill. so....what gives.
I had the finger on the SORRY, THX FOR TRYING EMOTE face button because I knew I already won and he could do NOTHING about it. bad bad bad
--well...you guys thinks this game requires skill?AFTER EXPERIENCING THIS? haaaa
skill in net decking or having good rng is skill?
this game I just won was so funny....got the druid that cost 10....then top decked the 4 2/2 and win.
wow...so lame XD
go face!
Thing is.. the definition of "fun" is different for everyone, and it doesn't have to involve skill which I guess you can call "stupid fun".
After all, it's a card game that is inherently luck dependent, no matter how competitive serious players want to make it out to be.
Developers' inability to balance is one thing; players choosing to abuse it is another.
This kind of things happens too frequently and this is why it's a problem, such as Turn 3 Neptulon with Big Priest in wild, and it's not ok, it's toxic and not fun at all.
While rogue can highroll, this scenario doesn't happen too often. Some decks require more skill to pilot: there's a better rogue deck, for example, that can consistently present a threatening board. Piloting that one is not very easy, and feel free to show me video proof that you pilot it perfectly. highroll decks may or may not require skill. The skill is necessary in those games where you don't draw "the nuts", but you still win by finding your win condition.
There's also skill in open cups, where even if you netdeck all your decks, it's important to find the best combination of classes and winning strategy. Piloting many classes is also a skill.
You use the word on a very surface level, a limited discussion that seems to have the answers yes or no, when in reality we can discuss the range of skill required, because the world is not binary.
Don't ever play Wild if you are that mad for turn 4 kill
yeah but people will tell you that YoU dOn'T sEe BiG pRiEsT qUiTe OfTeN tHoUgH.
As if this makes it ok.
Thank you for this more people need to read and understand posts like this. So many people can only see 5 inches in front of their face especially when frustrated. This game absolutely has a skill gap/curve and it's noticeable in nearly every rank of the game but mostly at high legend. To OP's credit the decks dominating the meta game right now are so unbalanced or overplayed that the thinking behind most plays is no longer required. The sad thing is most pros and streamers still dictate the meta and very few players actually spend the time and patience to build a deck of their own that works.
Google search: Is Hearthstone free to play?
Sorry, I'm throwing the BS flag here. The reason you see "netdecks" is because the decks they create (which they "actually spend the time and patience to build") ARE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE. Why? Because the current crop of cards in Standard provide sufficient support for said decks. There's a reason you don't see an Undead Hunter or Pirate Shaman. You'd have to be an idiot to try to ladder with it.
I'd venture to bet that most people, if they bothered, could come up with a Quest DH deck that is 95% identical to the "meta" deck that a streamer puts together. It's not that hard. So why waste valuable time reinventing the wheel? I could grow my own food, but I'd rather go to the grocery store.
I swear, some people think it takes some deep brilliance to put together a deck of 30 cards. It's not rocket science.
Agree I just got back after 2 years for DK and the game is worse than ever. I'm gonna hit lvl 100 on the battle pass and quit again and play something that requires half a brain and some skills. There are loads of games out there allot of them free , not gonna waste time on something like this like I used to and be annoyed all the time or hope for better times.
No it's not rocket science and yet everyone just copies tier 1 and 2 decks from HS replay or any other deck site. I wouldn't call it deep brilliance but yes players need a deeper understanding of the game to build a deck that functions well from top to bottom (early game to late game). I'd say 1 out of every 10 games do i see someone using a meta deck that has a single different card than the net deck version. At a certain point it becomes so easy to counter because every turn is so predictable. Judging by the fact that you've posted no decks on this site and you've been a member since 2016 leads me to believe you've always copied others decks and you're trying to justify not taking the effort to do it yourself.
Google search: Is Hearthstone free to play?
1) No, actually, you don't need "a deeper understanding of the game" to build a good deck. You need a few functioning brain cells and some experience playing the game. To take a dated example, look at Mech Mage. Do you honestly want to tell me that creating that deck takes a deep understanding of the game? Any idiot could create that deck in 10 minutes. Over time, people realized that certain cards weren't very good in the deck, but that's a change at the margin. The basic wincon and play choices remained pretty steady. I realize some people need to feel like they're special by saying "I create my own decks," but in most cases, they've taken 28 cards shared by all decks of that archetype, tossed in a couple different cards, and walked away telling themselves they're better than everyone else.
2) That said, the very term netdeck is stupid. As an example, I looked up deck lists for the contemporary version of Miracle Rogue. Some of the decks use Necrolord Draka, others use Astalor Bloodsworn. Some use Gone Fishin', some Tooth of Nefarian. So, which one's the netdeck? Look at any of the major archetypes and you'll find the same: 90% identical, with a few differences (often tech cards). When most people complain about netdecks, what they're really complaining about is the fact that the number of high-performing archetypes is too small.
3) As for your snide little deckbuilding comment, here's a news flash for you: One can, in fact, create a deck without posting it here. Those are two separate things. I do, periodically, create decks entirely of my own, mostly to play either in Casual or at a floor in Ladder. If I'm looking to climb the ladder, I'll typically look at 4-5 different version of the deck I'm interested in playing to see what cards are in common and which ones are different. The cards that all the decks have in common are usually going to account for 27 or 28 of the cards in the deck. Then, I'll make a decision about what the final couple of cards will be. That decision will depend on a) what cards I have/ what I'd need to craft and b) what decks I have been seeing on ladder. Does that make me a hated "netdecker?" I don't know and I don't care. I'm having fun and succeeding. In the interest of full disclosure, I will confess that sometimes I find a deck that looks good and fun, so I copy it entirely. I sure hope that doesn't make you lose respect for me. /sarcasm
4) While we're on the subject of people's decks, I took a look at yours. Yeah, I see what you mean. That N'Zoth Deathrattle Hunter was really cutting edge. I'm sure no one else thought of it. Same for your Quest DH. I'm blown away.
It does take much more to build a deck from scratch. Especially in wild were you have much more cards and nearly anything can reach at least d5 if not legend if built correct. And that might depend on a single card or two. And no, the decks I built don’t share 27 cards with meta decks :D
people saying stuff like this happen only in wild really have no clue.
In standard this stuff happens too. Not in the extend of this amount of stats on the board but still enough stats to make you auto lose.
Turn 5 Hydralodon. If you manage to counter that you run into many Wildseeds and eventually getting ended by 2 or more Shockspitter . There is no fun in playing a deck this powerful when other classes don't have as much gas as hunter does. And yet Blizzard just doesn't do anything for weeks or months.
I think Shockspitterwill hit the nerfbat by the end of this month but even then hunter is ridiculously powerful.
"Hope they nerf all the cards soon, so that my Chillwind Yeti will be OP again!"
mate, just go and play Classic if you can't stand the card's powercreep
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ModeratorAs far as vaguely disguised Humble Brags go, this one was impressive.
Again, depends on the archetype. If you're building a well-established archetype (say, Even Shaman), it really doesn't take much more knowledge. If, on the other hand, you're coming up with some completely new, off-meta deck (Pirate Shaman), then yes, you'll need to spend more time refining it so that it can compete in the meta. But even then, we're not talking about some deep knowledge of the inner workings of HS. We're mostly talking about trial and error. (In that case, probably a lot of error.)
My issue with TMRobinson's post is his insinuation that a) deck builders are superior to the unwashed masses that use meta decks; and b) that everyone SHOULD build their own decks. It's a stupid and insulting position. To use a personal example, my favorite hobby is brewing beer. And I'm actually pretty freaking good at it. I've won several homebrew awards and am constantly being bugged by friends for for a few bottles of my latest batch. But I don't strut around saying, "You can't really appreciate beer unless you make your own, like me. Beer drinking would be so much better if people were like me. Aren't I special?" If you like to buy beer, great. (Hell, most of the beer I drink I buy.) But, for me, making my own is fun.
HS is a game: games exist to have fun. People telling other people how to have fun need to STFU.