20 mana,unlimited draw,full board control and then you get ultimate strike with bran+sir+astalor which cost him 0 because he will utilise his armor for that
20 mana,unlimited draw,full board control and then you get ultimate strike with bran+sir+astalor which cost him 0 because he will utilise his armor for that
seems fair for me
To be honest, if you havent managed to aggro kill druid by the time he has accumulated that much mana and pieces of his combo, then it’s perfectly reasonable for him to be able to pull off his combo and win the game. I have more issue with Celestial druid playing 10 mana cards for 1 mana each myself. That card is broken as hell when paired with all the armor that ramp druid can attain now to survive turns 8 and 9.
That and the fact that druid can now split his Choose cards which makes them super problematic. The whole point of their power was the choice and losing the alternative side of it. Now they can just ramp and then refill without a care, which to me is super strong.
TTBH it's not exactly Druid though. The real culprit is 'mana cheat' in turn-based card game where mana was originally designed as action-per-turn limit for players. Obviously, if a player is granted more actions per turn, then he is winning.
HS Meta is BS every time there are ridiculous mana cheating cards in it. Druids just had more access to them.
Warlock: Skull in Cubelock, Mythril rod pre-nerf for combolock. Wild discolock, etc
Mage: 'Someday I'll be just like you', Lunar pocket galaxy, 0 mana freeze spell, secret mage
Priest: Big priest cheap resurrection. Shadow Anduin with Raza.
Hunter: Quest hunter.
Druid: Ultimate Infestation, Guff, Anub'rekhan, Aviana, Kun, Celestial Align and so much more.
These are just examples. Devs should stop designing stupid high ceiling mana cheat cards.
“Solve the Druid problem and the latter will follow.” No, it won’t. It won’t. I wish it would but it won’t.
You need to understand, people play Hearthstone to win, period. Most people anyway. They’re on a constant prowl on whatever broken synergy has been overlooked or allowed by the dev. When the nerf ultimately come, they then migrate to whatever is in the second place for the most broken. A lot can be blamed on the dev (and we should) but the players are as much to blame. I don’t play Rogue so I can dish out a 15/15 stealth minion in turn 5 because it’s not fair to me. Don’t think it’ll stop anyone else, however. I think there’s some psychological issue underneath, that reaching legend somehow demonstrates a person is among the alphas of the earth and too much is at risk not to stick for whatever has the highest winrate. Fun isn’t even part of the equation. I mean, technically, what’s fun about going full aggro Implock?
Best hearthstone players don’t lobby for a more balanced game, they’re aware the dev are slower than a turtle taking a shit to react to patch anything and are the opposite of proactive. The best Hearthstone players don’t complain and simply focus on taking advantage of whichever is the most busted.
“Solve the Druid problem and the latter will follow.” No, it won’t. It won’t. I wish it would but it won’t.
You need to understand, people play Hearthstone to win, period. Most people anyway. They’re on a constant prowl on whatever broken synergy has been overlooked or allowed by the dev. When the nerf ultimately come, they then migrate to whatever is in the second place for the most broken. A lot can be blamed on the dev (and we should) but the players are as much to blame. I don’t play Rogue so I can dish out a 15/15 stealth minion in turn 5 because it’s not fair to me. Don’t think it’ll stop anyone else, however. I think there’s some psychological issue underneath, that reaching legend somehow demonstrates a person is among the alphas of the earth and too much is at risk not to stick for whatever has the highest winrate. Fun isn’t even part of the equation. I mean, technically, what’s fun about going full aggro Implock?
Best hearthstone players don’t lobby for a more balanced game, they’re aware the dev are slower than a turtle taking a shit to react to patch anything and are the opposite of proactive. The best Hearthstone players don’t complain and simply focus on taking advantage of whichever is the most busted.
THIS and my signature.
I mean their definition of fun is clearly different which is just winning and doing basically anything to achieve it, so they play like a calculator.
You can obviously play however you want, but can't deny that this contributes the most to making the game repetitive and predictable, thus boring.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Developers' inability to balance is one thing; players choosing to abuse it is another.
“Solve the Druid problem and the latter will follow.” No, it won’t. It won’t. I wish it would but it won’t.
You need to understand, people play Hearthstone to win, period. Most people anyway. They’re on a constant prowl on whatever broken synergy has been overlooked or allowed by the dev. When the nerf ultimately come, they then migrate to whatever is in the second place for the most broken. A lot can be blamed on the dev (and we should) but the players are as much to blame. I don’t play Rogue so I can dish out a 15/15 stealth minion in turn 5 because it’s not fair to me. Don’t think it’ll stop anyone else, however. I think there’s some psychological issue underneath, that reaching legend somehow demonstrates a person is among the alphas of the earth and too much is at risk not to stick for whatever has the highest winrate. Fun isn’t even part of the equation. I mean, technically, what’s fun about going full aggro Implock?
Best hearthstone players don’t lobby for a more balanced game, they’re aware the dev are slower than a turtle taking a shit to react to patch anything and are the opposite of proactive. The best Hearthstone players don’t complain and simply focus on taking advantage of whichever is the most busted.
Yea I can see that. There is never just one thing but a combination of several so in this case both the players and the devs well thought out post.
At least nerfing Druid and possibly rouge is a very very solid start since in my opinion they are the most frustrating decks currently
Does someone have a deck listing for this supposed toxic druid deck? Can't say I've faced such a deck on ladder yet and I haven't seen anything I would call broken listed on this site.
I have to give credit where credit’s due, they quickly nerfed Shockspitter although it took them a damn long time to nerf Denathtrius. But the shockspitter move was being proactive on their part, so kudos to them for this.
Good thing 15/15 stealth minions combined with 14/3 weapon on t4/5 aren't toxic. Triple Galakrond Demon hunter who draw half of their deck ( IT COSTS 0 MANA ) Warlocks with 2 mana +7/7, 2 charges Everything is fucking broken in current hearthstone. Get used to it, stop living in the past where 4 mana 4/5 was good
Stop spending money at the in game shop > force hearthstone to develop video game according to those who fund it (player base and their own money).
Keep spending money on glittering prices, keep funding the cancer that are the Devs (who are corporate puppy lap dogs) to not fix anything.
Corporations care for one thing; quarterly profits. If the $$ is still coming in over skins, hero portraits, packs, BG/Duel/Merc crap... they will continue to steer the ship as they have been.
Once the quarterly profits start to tank, they will correct course and adhere to the player base because ultimately they are the ones who fund the game which in turn pays for salaries and jobs at Activision Blizzard.
When dopamine ticks overcomes your wallet, instead of conscious decisions, you are losing regardless of what rank the pixels tell you, you are.
Good thing 15/15 stealth minions combined with 14/3 weapon on t4/5 aren't toxic. Triple Galakrond Demon hunter who draw half of their deck ( IT COSTS 0 MANA ) Warlocks with 2 mana +7/7, 2 charges Everything is fucking broken in current hearthstone. Get used to it, stop living in the past where 4 mana 4/5 was good
I will agree with you IF druid was forced to play with the same rules that the other classes. But the fact that is the only class in the game that can make plays beyond 10 mana its the real problem, no one has a problem with how Druid can gain 80 armor, no one has a problem with the armor beetle spamming stuff and getting a full combo of Brann + Astalor for 42 ping damage or Denathrius for way more. The real problem is that Druid can make plays that should not be possible for a class without cost reduction and even for classes with cost reduction effects are almost impossible. The point of standard was to avoid this. This is not the first time that people complain about this kind of stuff with Druid and the nerf when they come are always hard. Devs needs to understand that people dont want this kind of stuff for the format.
The real problem is that Druid can make plays that should not be possible for a class without cost reduction and even for classes with cost reduction effects are almost impossible. The point of standard was to avoid this. This is not the first time that people complain about this kind of stuff with Druid and the nerf when they come are always hard. Devs needs to understand that people dont want this kind of stuff for the format.
This is not a problem. Every class can make plays that others cant. Druid is actually a very good and consistent deck that relys very little on luck/RNG. Its a real deck and not a slot machine that relys on pulling stuff out of thin air by random effects. Everyone knows what Druid plays, there are no suprises. Its more in line with real card game decks like MtG or YuGiOh were you have a consistent deck and the skill and fun comes from how good you are at piloting the deck in different situations. Hearthstone had a time were almost every deck was pure RNG and whenever decks appeared that were skill based they nerfed and killed them to keep the crying sheeps in the game so that they hopefully pay money for new content. They are slowly changing that because HS is not a hyped game anymore and actual TCG players are not interested in gambling and rng mechanics beyond pack openings. So they started catering towards the TCG crowd because they play the games longer and beyond the hype. There are still enough hyper agressive decks that counter druid hard but that lose to other mid range decks. Mid range decks lose to druid. Its fine.
The real problem is that Druid can make plays that should not be possible for a class without cost reduction and even for classes with cost reduction effects are almost impossible. The point of standard was to avoid this. This is not the first time that people complain about this kind of stuff with Druid and the nerf when they come are always hard. Devs needs to understand that people dont want this kind of stuff for the format.
This is not a problem. Every class can make plays that others cant. Druid is actually a very good and consistent deck that relys very little on luck/RNG. Its a real deck and not a slot machine that relys on pulling stuff out of thin air by random effects. Everyone knows what Druid plays, there are no suprises. Its more in line with real card game decks like MtG or YuGiOh were you have a consistent deck and the skill and fun comes from how good you are at piloting the deck in different situations. Hearthstone had a time were almost every deck was pure RNG and whenever decks appeared that were skill based they nerfed and killed them to keep the crying sheeps in the game so that they hopefully pay money for new content. They are slowly changing that because HS is not a hyped game anymore and actual TCG players are not interested in gambling and rng mechanics beyond pack openings. So they started catering towards the TCG crowd because they play the games longer and beyond the hype. There are still enough hyper agressive decks that counter druid hard but that lose to other mid range decks. Mid range decks lose to druid. Its fine.
Oh right i forget the dont have 2 cards that generate cards that cost 2 less neither a card that let them duplicate any card on their deck. If you belive Druid is better than other classes because "its more solid" lets make a little experiment: play Ramp druid without guff. Lets see how the winrat of you deck its without 10 more resources than your oponent in the late game. i will tell you how it ends. Every time they get Guff too late, they lose to any of my late game decks, they run out stuff. They cant make Denathrius overkill combos in the right turns. One Time i stealth they guff from their deck with Priest, even when he hit actually ALL their other ramp cards and i dont take his denathrius, he surrender. I wonder why.
Edit: Also...what aggro decks? Ramp druid play rate is beyond Token druid. Implock? Thats it, literally the only aggro deck that survive and its because is literally the BEST aggro deck in standard format. You belive "skill" is a word to describe a gameplay focusing on holding your cards until you can make plays that literally count almost as "getting 2 turns" without the ability of attack the enemy face instanly. Thats not how it works bro. MtG ramp its busted but there is actually a lot of punishers in the game that actually can beat ramp in any stage of the game. Its not the same here.
Druid are rogue both do things which make game so unfun.
Guff is such a problem card they really didn't nerf it enough.
I have played this game from day one and I do remember that Druid had issues, so, this is not true.
<iframe src="http://gifyoutube.com/gif/ywoqQP" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" width="440" height="400" style="-webkit-backface-visibility: hidden;-webkit-transform: scale(1);" ></iframe>
20 mana,unlimited draw,full board control and then you get ultimate strike with bran+sir+astalor which cost him 0 because he will utilise his armor for that
seems fair for me
To be honest, if you havent managed to aggro kill druid by the time he has accumulated that much mana and pieces of his combo, then it’s perfectly reasonable for him to be able to pull off his combo and win the game. I have more issue with Celestial druid playing 10 mana cards for 1 mana each myself. That card is broken as hell when paired with all the armor that ramp druid can attain now to survive turns 8 and 9.
That and the fact that druid can now split his Choose cards which makes them super problematic. The whole point of their power was the choice and losing the alternative side of it. Now they can just ramp and then refill without a care, which to me is super strong.
TTBH it's not exactly Druid though. The real culprit is 'mana cheat' in turn-based card game where mana was originally designed as action-per-turn limit for players. Obviously, if a player is granted more actions per turn, then he is winning.
HS Meta is BS every time there are ridiculous mana cheating cards in it. Druids just had more access to them.
Warlock: Skull in Cubelock, Mythril rod pre-nerf for combolock. Wild discolock, etc
Mage: 'Someday I'll be just like you', Lunar pocket galaxy, 0 mana freeze spell, secret mage
Priest: Big priest cheap resurrection. Shadow Anduin with Raza.
Hunter: Quest hunter.
Druid: Ultimate Infestation, Guff, Anub'rekhan, Aviana, Kun, Celestial Align and so much more.
These are just examples. Devs should stop designing stupid high ceiling mana cheat cards.
“Solve the Druid problem and the latter will follow.”
No, it won’t. It won’t. I wish it would but it won’t.
You need to understand, people play Hearthstone to win, period. Most people anyway. They’re on a constant prowl on whatever broken synergy has been overlooked or allowed by the dev. When the nerf ultimately come, they then migrate to whatever is in the second place for the most broken. A lot can be blamed on the dev (and we should) but the players are as much to blame. I don’t play Rogue so I can dish out a 15/15 stealth minion in turn 5 because it’s not fair to me. Don’t think it’ll stop anyone else, however. I think there’s some psychological issue underneath, that reaching legend somehow demonstrates a person is among the alphas of the earth and too much is at risk not to stick for whatever has the highest winrate. Fun isn’t even part of the equation. I mean, technically, what’s fun about going full aggro Implock?
Best hearthstone players don’t lobby for a more balanced game, they’re aware the dev are slower than a turtle taking a shit to react to patch anything and are the opposite of proactive. The best Hearthstone players don’t complain and simply focus on taking advantage of whichever is the most busted.
^ couldn't have said it better Zizka. Best way is to stop playing the game, essentially.
THIS and my signature.
I mean their definition of fun is clearly different which is just winning and doing basically anything to achieve it, so they play like a calculator.
You can obviously play however you want, but can't deny that this contributes the most to making the game repetitive and predictable, thus boring.
Developers' inability to balance is one thing; players choosing to abuse it is another.
Yea I can see that. There is never just one thing but a combination of several so in this case both the players and the devs well thought out post.
At least nerfing Druid and possibly rouge is a very very solid start since in my opinion they are the most frustrating decks currently
Does someone have a deck listing for this supposed toxic druid deck? Can't say I've faced such a deck on ladder yet and I haven't seen anything I would call broken listed on this site.
I have to give credit where credit’s due, they quickly nerfed Shockspitter although it took them a damn long time to nerf Denathtrius. But the shockspitter move was being proactive on their part, so kudos to them for this.
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Good thing 15/15 stealth minions combined with 14/3 weapon on t4/5 aren't toxic.
Triple Galakrond Demon hunter who draw half of their deck ( IT COSTS 0 MANA )
Warlocks with 2 mana +7/7, 2 charges
Everything is fucking broken in current hearthstone. Get used to it, stop living in the past where 4 mana 4/5 was good
Stop spending money at the in game shop > force hearthstone to develop video game according to those who fund it (player base and their own money).
Keep spending money on glittering prices, keep funding the cancer that are the Devs (who are corporate puppy lap dogs) to not fix anything.
Corporations care for one thing; quarterly profits. If the $$ is still coming in over skins, hero portraits, packs, BG/Duel/Merc crap... they will continue to steer the ship as they have been.
Once the quarterly profits start to tank, they will correct course and adhere to the player base because ultimately they are the ones who fund the game which in turn pays for salaries and jobs at Activision Blizzard.
When dopamine ticks overcomes your wallet, instead of conscious decisions, you are losing regardless of what rank the pixels tell you, you are.
Come play wild for a week and then go back to standard and let’s see your complaints then.
I will agree with you IF druid was forced to play with the same rules that the other classes. But the fact that is the only class in the game that can make plays beyond 10 mana its the real problem, no one has a problem with how Druid can gain 80 armor, no one has a problem with the armor beetle spamming stuff and getting a full combo of Brann + Astalor for 42 ping damage or Denathrius for way more. The real problem is that Druid can make plays that should not be possible for a class without cost reduction and even for classes with cost reduction effects are almost impossible. The point of standard was to avoid this. This is not the first time that people complain about this kind of stuff with Druid and the nerf when they come are always hard. Devs needs to understand that people dont want this kind of stuff for the format.
This is not a problem. Every class can make plays that others cant. Druid is actually a very good and consistent deck that relys very little on luck/RNG. Its a real deck and not a slot machine that relys on pulling stuff out of thin air by random effects. Everyone knows what Druid plays, there are no suprises. Its more in line with real card game decks like MtG or YuGiOh were you have a consistent deck and the skill and fun comes from how good you are at piloting the deck in different situations. Hearthstone had a time were almost every deck was pure RNG and whenever decks appeared that were skill based they nerfed and killed them to keep the crying sheeps in the game so that they hopefully pay money for new content. They are slowly changing that because HS is not a hyped game anymore and actual TCG players are not interested in gambling and rng mechanics beyond pack openings. So they started catering towards the TCG crowd because they play the games longer and beyond the hype. There are still enough hyper agressive decks that counter druid hard but that lose to other mid range decks. Mid range decks lose to druid. Its fine.
Oh right i forget the dont have 2 cards that generate cards that cost 2 less neither a card that let them duplicate any card on their deck. If you belive Druid is better than other classes because "its more solid" lets make a little experiment: play Ramp druid without guff. Lets see how the winrat of you deck its without 10 more resources than your oponent in the late game. i will tell you how it ends. Every time they get Guff too late, they lose to any of my late game decks, they run out stuff. They cant make Denathrius overkill combos in the right turns. One Time i stealth they guff from their deck with Priest, even when he hit actually ALL their other ramp cards and i dont take his denathrius, he surrender. I wonder why.
Edit: Also...what aggro decks? Ramp druid play rate is beyond Token druid. Implock? Thats it, literally the only aggro deck that survive and its because is literally the BEST aggro deck in standard format. You belive "skill" is a word to describe a gameplay focusing on holding your cards until you can make plays that literally count almost as "getting 2 turns" without the ability of attack the enemy face instanly. Thats not how it works bro. MtG ramp its busted but there is actually a lot of punishers in the game that actually can beat ramp in any stage of the game. Its not the same here.
Imo Guff is the problem. Having 20 mana every turn is just too much to deal with for every other deck