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ModeratorIf has a deck has plenty of other decks that can beat it (as demonstrated above), then it probably wasn't that busted to begin with, lol
As was pointed out in a different thread, "busted" or "OP" only has meaning in relation to other decks. So if there are multiple "busted" decks, there are, in fact, none.
It sounds to me like you have a preferred class or deck that simply does not perform well in the current meta. Guess what: everyone who's played this game a while has been there. In this situation, you have two choices: play a deck that performs well in the current meta, or play the decks you enjoy and don't worry about climbing the ladder. (I do this all the time. Seriously, laddering is not that important.) Instead, however, you seem insistent on demanding changes to the game so that YOU can have more fun. You're free to do so, of course, but you can't offer a rational (vice personal) argument for it.
By that logic, balance changes shouldn't be necessary, because no card is busted or OP if there are multiple busted cards.
Developers' inability to balance is one thing; players choosing to abuse it is another.
Quest Rogue was in the same spot - beatable, but still toxic and preventing meta diversity.
No. Not even remotely accurate. Cards are judged by different criteria, for obvious reasons. Decks can only be judged by winrate, by definition relative to one another. (Let me play an off-meta Standard deck against the best decks in Classic, and my winrate will be obscene.) Cards, however, must be judged not only by winrate when played, but also by the classes/ decks it can be played in and the synergies it has with other cards. For example, if a player could put Purified Shard in his opening deck, it would be horribly broken. But, given the class it's limited to and the hoops one has to jump through to get and play the card, only a nutjob would call it OP. Similarly, Stealer of Souls isn't a good card without The Demon Seed. But the synergy between the two made it utterly broken and got it banned in Wild.
Balance changes are typically done because either a) a specific card has an unforeseen but massive impact (usually as a result of pairing it with another card) that renders the overall deck too strong (see, for example, Wretched Tiller when paired with Deathspeaker and the unnerfed Hysteria); or b) a deck's overall winrate (i.e., RELATIVE strength) is too high and Blizzard believes that a particular card or cards in the deck are primarily responsible. Since it is virtually impossible to have 3-4 decks with too high a winrate (I think Blizzard starts getting worried when it hits the high 50s, but don't quote me on that), you probably cannot realistically have more than 2 "broken" decks at any given point in the meta.
As I recall, Quest Rogue was only nerfed because it was a "feel bad to play against" type deck. There were no balance issues with it, and it certainly wasn't a high winrate deck. (That said, it's been a while and my memory on this is fuzzy, so I could be wrong.)
It was very beatable, by the plethora of available aggro decks. I actually had some really good runs in open cups in un'goro by running an aggro lineup to beat quest rogue. However, anything slower had really hard time beating rogue. It was the most polarized deck ever back then. So it was mainly nerfed to prevent matchups being autoloss.
Maybe so. Maybe the game has changed that much. I'm less outraged than I was before.
"Unless you do your best, the day will come when, tired and hungry, you will halt just short of the goal you were ordered to reach." - Patton
Let me introduce you to the format called Wild. Listen to me first before you roll your eyes.
If Druid has broken combo cards on Standard, imagine what he can do on Wild. The things that I have seen just mind-blowing. However, in Wild Druid as a Ramp 20 mana deck will never be a competetive deck. Because of either the disruption or the aggro decks, or even Big Priest.
Analyzing these:
1) Big Priest: is a cancer. Neptulon the Tidehunter is a broken card, more broken than all the Druid combos. So you're fighting fire with fire. Not a good solution, but will do.
2) aggro decks: Many will say that aggro decks are toxic and brainless but let me tell you something. They always kept such decks in check. Because you had to spend many deckslots on survival instead of bullsh*t combos and many high end cards. Actually this needs a post of its own.
3) Disruption: On wild there's ton of disruption. Utilizing this disruption can break Druid decks. Sure they'll have another weird combo at hand but they won't bullsh*t you as they do in Standard.
2 & 3 are the solution to Druid, without reworking the class.
Hey I just went 17-1 from Diamond 5 no stars to legend with control deathrattle priest. It outlasts both druid and death knight. It handles rogue pretty easy you just need to use your silence spells at the right times when you can clear the board as well. Also whirlpool wrecks rogue.
### Deathrattle Priest
# Class: Priest
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Hydra
#
# 2x (0) Desperate Prayer
# 2x (1) Call of the Grave
# 2x (1) Gift of the Naaru
# 2x (1) Shard of the Naaru
# 1x (1) Sir Finley, Sea Guide
# 2x (1) The Light! It Burns!
# 1x (2) Astalor Bloodsworn
# 2x (2) Thrive in the Shadows
# 2x (3) Amulet of Undying
# 2x (3) Cathedral of Atonement
# 1x (3) Prince Renathal
# 1x (3) Rustrot Viper
# 2x (3) Switcheroo
# 1x (4) Korrak the Bloodrager
# 2x (4) Shadow Word: Ruin
# 1x (4) Xyrella
# 1x (5) Clean the Scene
# 1x (5) Spirit Guide
# 1x (6) Lightbomb
# 2x (6) Lightshower Elemental
# 1x (6) Mi'da, Pure Light
# 1x (6) Sister Svalna
# 1x (6) Theotar, the Mad Duke
# 1x (7) Blackwater Behemoth
# 2x (8) Mo'arg Forgefiend
# 2x (8) Whirlpool
# 1x (8) Xyrella, the Devout
#
AAECAafDAw7U7QPQ+QPoiwSIowTypATWrATlsASotgS42QS63ASX7wTvkQWGpAXipAUNmesDmusDhvcDh/cDzPkDjIEErYoE8J8EiqMEobYE+dsE9vEEhoMFAA==
#
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ModeratorNice. I'll give this a try this morning.
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ModeratorLove it so far. Currently 4-0. Just played a Miracle Rogue. He Miracled into two stealth 9/9s. They got Shadow Word Ruin’d.
Next turn He miracled in to two stealthed 12/12s and a 11/3 weapon.
one quick Light Bomb and Viper to eat the weapon later, and he rage-quit. Good times. Lol
Quest Rogue was nerfed, because it killled control completely.
Dude glad it’s working! I’m 18-1 with it. I got behind against a blood death knight and couldn’t heal. Other than that it’s handled every deck I’ve played pretty handily. Good luck on ladder.
I hate Ramp Druid as much as any decent person, but this time I think the culprit is DH.
Unleash Fel has purged early aggression out of the meta. Unless you can make big minions very early (aka Rogue), theres no point in being aggressive on ladder, as this atrocity of a card can just wipe out your entire board of small minions (with Arcanist or Trader) and heal DH back to full health, no aggro can beat that.
Who loves an aggro-free meta? Yep, Ramp Druid. Defying all canon, the brothers have each others back, demolishing anyone who tries to farm their kin.
Unleash Fel needs to be nuked out of orbit, PERIOD. As long as DH plays that shit, no other aggressive class but Rogue can hope to succeed, and the Druid - DH - Rogue deadlock cant be broken.
One expansion week in and im already in the nerf waiting room, FUCK this meta.
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Moderator1 damage AoE spells have been around for a long time and certainly not limited to DH. Even with Lifesteal and tradable (which Paladin has) or increasing damage (which Priest has). Or 1-costed (which Warrior has). The list goes on.
A 1-damage AoE really should not be able to end your day as an aggro deck unless you are somehow relying on 1-health minions which is not a good game plan against ANY deck really. Especially in a meta where so many classes can ping easily and heal now.
This card is not played for 1 damage. It is used in combination with +spell damage and it does indeed fully heal the DH if you are wide on board. Due to the nature of the deck fast cycling they will almost always have the combination too. It is quite punishing but I'm not sure I agree that it's the reason aggro isn't played because I've not personally seen that many people running the deck so far.
Edit: Seems to be a surge in popularity as I've played against it in probably 25% of games now today
How good is Sister Svalna in this deck? Not got this card and hesitant to craft as I've not seen it much.
Quest Priest is doing good for me if you don't have Sister/Mi'Da. Basically the same deck. Oddly enough the only fat L's are to Unholy DK.
She’s great for games that go really long. Infinite value. So against armor druid or blood death knight I love her. I think if the meta is control and long games she’ll always be good.
however some games she’s pretty obsolete due to just out healing or out lasting a quick burst deck.