I've seen some people complain that Death Knight isn't a good new class and point out how on HSreplay that the decks are sitting at around a 45% win rate. I think the reason for the low percentage isn't because DK is a flop, but the same top decks from the last expansion have been basically untouched. Those decks are at the same power level as before so people have no reason not to play them, which keeps them at the top of the tier list and pushes all the other decks down.
Blizzard seems to be afraid of a repeat of the launch day Demon Hunter, so they Death Knight has been designed to be powerful but fair. But the top meta decks like Beast Hunter, Aggro Druid, Imp Warlock, etc. thrive on being borderline unfair
Edit: One idea I had since posting this was Blizzard should look at the data of top decks before an expansion launches and if a deck is outperforming the rest of the classes by some margin, then that deck should get nerfed at launch. That will allow for new cards and new decks to help rise in power and popularity, and people will buy the new cards which, we all know that's what matters to them. So, Blizzard should nerf cards when a new expansion comes out. They'll make money from people buying new cards and playing the new support, and players will get to experiment with more decks, new cards, and will feel rewarded for changing their decks.
I haven't noticed anyone complaining about DK's lack of power. But I am also not reading the forums as much. To provide a counter-example, I have been really enjoying my time playing Blood-Rune Deathknight and focusing on control. It's actually the most fun I have had playing the game in a long time :) Here are my stats with it so far.
I haven't noticed anyone complaining about DK's lack of power. But I am also not reading the forums as much. To provide a counter-example, I have been really enjoying my time playing Blood-Rune Deathknight and focusing on control. It's actually the most fun I have had playing the game in a long time :) Here are my stats with it so far.
I am complaining. And you get these stats only because people play DK so much. But once the honeymoon ends, they will return to much better classes like Ramp Druid you have absolutely no chance against as they are better control deck in every aspect. Meta was, is and still will be Theotar and Sire - nothing changed and Druid is much better at this.
Have to disagree. Of all the decks I am currently running, my Blood DK deck is the only one (barring Celestial Druid) that remains almost unbeaten. In fact, when I test a new deck, like OTK Hunter, etc, and it fails miserably, DK is the deck I go back o to cheer myself up again! Haha!
I did try a Full Hybrid DK (one of each Rune - it was bad), and an UnHoly DK (it was average), so it may be that the other DK decks are lacking in power a little, but Blood DK is definitely uber-strong in the right hands.
I have about 60 games with blood dk, the main problem is turtle druid, I think it's the only deck that for now keeps that wr stat so low. Anyway, it's only the first day of the expansion, we already know that many things can change.
DK is tearing it up in the best mode, Arena. My theory is that DK has a ton of cards that are slightly overstatted. Great minions and removals that make it easy in arena. But a bunch of good cards is not worth much in constructed. In constructed, you need 1-2 insanely overpowered cards/combos, and maybe DK doesn’t have that (or doesn’t have that worked out yet).
Playing unholy, it just doesn't feel good as too many cards are corpse consumers and not generators. The worst of the offender is Malignant Horror. You have very little control over this card and the last thing you want is to get a 2/1 copy of it with it's reborn down for 5 corpses. A smart opponent will exploit this.
The 2nd problem is card draw. The archetype has a massive lack of it. Plagued Grain is an amazing card, but is held back by lack of draw. Most times when playing unholy, I'm hoping that I'm able to top deck something useful.
Plus it always feels like there's only 2 ways to win with it. Get lucky enough to stick a wide board then hit them with Grave Strength or land a fat marrowgar that the enemy doesn't have an answer to.
I think the reason for the low percentage isn't because DK is a flop, but the same top decks from the last expansion have been basically untouched. Those decks are at the same power level as before so people have no reason not to play them, which keeps them at the top of the tier list and pushes all the other decks down.
In other words, DK is just too weak. There is no such thing as an objectively strong or objectively weak deck, power level always depends on the strength of the other decks in the meta. If DK can't keep up with them, it must be underpowered, simple as that.
Playing unholy, it just doesn't feel good as too many cards are corpse consumers and not generators. The worst of the offender is Malignant Horror. You have very little control over this card and the last thing you want is to get a 2/1 copy of it with it's reborn down for 5 corpses. A smart opponent will exploit this.
The 2nd problem is card draw. The archetype has a massive lack of it. Plagued Grain is an amazing card, but is held back by lack of draw. Most times when playing unholy, I'm hoping that I'm able to top deck something useful.
Plus it always feels like there's only 2 ways to win with it. Get lucky enough to stick a wide board then hit them with Grave Strength or land a fat marrowgar that the enemy doesn't have an answer to.
So ... then why are you playing with cards like Malignant Horror in your deck? No one is forcing you (the smart player won't oinclude that card in their deck) ... there are a ton of better 4-cost cards out there ... build your deck like Zoolock, so there's Defender of Argus (you're going wide anyway), the Dwarf that gives +2 attack etc. Go back to the basics. Hawkstrider Rancher is also solid at 3 mana.
As for card draw ... I sub in reasonable card generation instead. There's also decent draw if you do UUF (Plagued Grain is a distraction ... don't get sucked into needing to play UUU - Grave Strength is good, but can be replaced ... Marrowgar too, try the 2 mana Manathirst legendary for some decent final burst ... the opponent knows it is coming so usually concedes before I can play part 3). In the last DK game I played, I had 31 unspent corpses and steamrolled the Druid I was playing against. Have tried both UUF and UUB, but haven't decided which is better yet.
--> I insta-deleted the 3 deck suggestions and built my own based on Zoolock principles and focused on undead (tip: the Amalgam is good). My two disruption cards are Coilfang Constrictor and the Plaguespreader guy (in for the achievement but not taken out yet). And no, I don't run Denathrius ... can't stand the card so try to get creative in deckbuilding ... I just throw in cards I like or would like to play with (or against ... I'm sure my opponents like seeing some of the cards I play and am sure they've seen them very little on ladder.) The 2 mana legendary is better than Daddy D (in my humble opinion) because if you draw into him from turn 7 onwards he'll probably do more burst damage than Denathrius on turn 10 if you draw D on turn 7. Astalor just has a lot more flexibility and that's what I'm looking for in my Zooknight deck.
Have to disagree. Of all the decks I am currently running, my Blood DK deck is the only one (barring Celestial Druid) that remains almost unbeaten. In fact, when I test a new deck, like OTK Hunter, etc, and it fails miserably, DK is the deck I go back o to cheer myself up again! Haha!
I did try a Full Hybrid DK (one of each Rune - it was bad), and an UnHoly DK (it was average), so it may be that the other DK decks are lacking in power a little, but Blood DK is definitely uber-strong in the right hands.
Cool story, bro. I didn't even have to buy (Gold) any new expansion packs to realize how smoothly I was gliding through Ranked with all those fancy new decks trying (and failing) to be as unfair as Imp-Curselock.
Quick glance at HSreplay confirmed, the DK Class is actually unplayable competitively, the "strongest" list roaming barely around 50% . Extra Miserable stats against Imp-Curselock (My Top 200 Legend deck of last month) as well as vs Ramp Druid.
Then again you are probably a Diamond ranked dude (at best) so your fancy Blood DK is getting you somewhere in Silver/Gold.
DKs are good when it comes to minion-on-minion combat. The thing is, people wen't around it and they play decks that don't rely on board presence at all. I try to play DK (because I don't hate fun), I'm on Gold (EU) and I'm getting constantly wrecked by Bomb Locks (not even 80 max HP saved me from getting OTK'd), Hemorrhage Rogues and Celestial Alignment/Armor Druids wit their quadruple Sire.
I haven't noticed anyone complaining about DK's lack of power. But I am also not reading the forums as much. To provide a counter-example, I have been really enjoying my time playing Blood-Rune Deathknight and focusing on control. It's actually the most fun I have had playing the game in a long time :) Here are my stats with it so far.
I am complaining. And you get these stats only because people play DK so much. But once the honeymoon ends, they will return to much better classes like Ramp Druid you have absolutely no chance against as they are better control deck in every aspect. Meta was, is and still will be Theotar and Sire - nothing changed and Druid is much better at this.
i mean his stats reflex what you said like..he has negative winrate against the 2 classes that everyone has negative winrate: Demon Hunter and Druid. And i belive both classes will get the nerf banner next patch. Its impossible literally that Demon Hunter and Druid run untouched the next nerf patch.
And i need to be clear here: There is not class right now that is better than Druid and Demon Hunter, except hunter and warlock, the other 2 best classes. Everyone else is doing poorly bad or just on the range of 50-55% (like Thief because most clases cant beat 10/10 Stealth on turn 5 + 10 attack weapon. So there is not point of argumen about IF DK as a class is weak or not right now because well ah...right now every single class outside the four tier 1 slots is on the same page. Its not even funny how absurly broken Spell base decks and combo decks are in this format and that has been a thing sinse the start of the year.
My guess if that they will hit DH and Druid because its impossible to ignore how over the top are and the Hunter OTK potential is going down too. The format cant stand against this kind of decks like you just need to see how this expansion was constructed to understand that most classes dont have a pull of cards that can handle those decks.
I was going to mention that, another reason why DK's winrate is so low is because people are rushing to play him and are still learning how it works. So they'll end up getting crushed by the fifty Gold Hunters and Druids in Bronze 5
Brann just has to go wild; it's literally the best choice. Most decks are overly reliant on him and it makes each game feel no different then the last.
Interesting argument - DK is not as good as DH, Druid, Warlock or Hunter, but it does not mean it's weak - well, yes it does. And it has 1 strong (blood) and 1 playable (frost) deck out of 10 runes combinations.
It will get worse as DK has no room to improve and people will come back to strong decks once they stop playing with new toys.
And yes, all may change due to nerfs, but now it is what it is.
Currently control DK (Blood + X) seems quite powerful, and would most likely sit well above 50% WR if not for Druid.
The other decks are definitely falling behind a bit.
Here's a list of the top 10 best performing legend decks according to metastats, and their archetype:
Ramp Druid (OTK)
Fel Demon Hunter (OTK)
Bless Priest (Combo)
Arcane Hunter (OTK)
Miracle Rogue (Combo)
Curse Imp Warlock (Midrange)
Thief Rogue (Midrange)
Swarm Shaman (Aggro)
Aggro Druid (Aggro)
Blood DK (Control)
As I'm sure you know, OTK/Combo > Control > Midrange > Aggro > OTK, and since OTK/Combo is currently at the top that means Control will naturally be at the bottom. The fact that Blood DK manages to get on the list despite that is an indicator that the deck is quite powerful, and that it will potentially climb to near the top of the list if OTK/Combo is nerfed.
Currently control DK (Blood + X) seems quite powerful, and would most likely sit well above 50% WR if not for Druid.
The other decks are definitely falling behind a bit.
Here's a list of the top 10 best performing legend decks according to metastats, and their archetype:
Ramp Druid (OTK)
Fel Demon Hunter (OTK)
Bless Priest (Combo)
Arcane Hunter (OTK)
Miracle Rogue (Combo)
Curse Imp Warlock (Midrange)
Thief Rogue (Midrange)
Swarm Shaman (Aggro)
Aggro Druid (Aggro)
Blood DK (Control)
As I'm sure you know, OTK/Combo > Control > Midrange > Aggro > OTK, and since OTK/Combo is currently at the top that means Control will naturally be at the bottom. The fact that Blood DK manages to get on the list despite that is an indicator that the deck is quite powerful, and that it will potentially climb to near the top of the list if OTK/Combo is nerfed.
3 OTK decks 1 Combo deck and 2 heavy high-roll decks with a LOT of reach and flexbility (both midrange list) and people really belive that board base decks and less OTK combo oriented decks have a chance to do something in this meta? Like...what?
Currently control DK (Blood + X) seems quite powerful, and would most likely sit well above 50% WR if not for Druid.
The other decks are definitely falling behind a bit.
Here's a list of the top 10 best performing legend decks according to metastats, and their archetype:
Ramp Druid (OTK)
Fel Demon Hunter (OTK)
Bless Priest (Combo)
Arcane Hunter (OTK)
Miracle Rogue (Combo)
Curse Imp Warlock (Midrange)
Thief Rogue (Midrange)
Swarm Shaman (Aggro)
Aggro Druid (Aggro)
Blood DK (Control)
As I'm sure you know, OTK/Combo > Control > Midrange > Aggro > OTK, and since OTK/Combo is currently at the top that means Control will naturally be at the bottom. The fact that Blood DK manages to get on the list despite that is an indicator that the deck is quite powerful, and that it will potentially climb to near the top of the list if OTK/Combo is nerfed.
Metastats has a limited sample size, here's the same list, but from HSReplay:
1. Bless Priest 2. Beast Hunter 3. Silver Hand Paladin 4. Imp Warlock 5. Miracle Rogue 6. Ramp Druid 7. Swarm Shaman 8. Control Paladin 9. Pure Paladin 10. Fel Demon Hunter
Blood Death Knight is in 19th place with a 44.37% winrate.
Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again. Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore. The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.
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I've seen some people complain that Death Knight isn't a good new class and point out how on HSreplay that the decks are sitting at around a 45% win rate. I think the reason for the low percentage isn't because DK is a flop, but the same top decks from the last expansion have been basically untouched. Those decks are at the same power level as before so people have no reason not to play them, which keeps them at the top of the tier list and pushes all the other decks down.
Blizzard seems to be afraid of a repeat of the launch day Demon Hunter, so they Death Knight has been designed to be powerful but fair. But the top meta decks like Beast Hunter, Aggro Druid, Imp Warlock, etc. thrive on being borderline unfair
Edit: One idea I had since posting this was Blizzard should look at the data of top decks before an expansion launches and if a deck is outperforming the rest of the classes by some margin, then that deck should get nerfed at launch. That will allow for new cards and new decks to help rise in power and popularity, and people will buy the new cards which, we all know that's what matters to them. So, Blizzard should nerf cards when a new expansion comes out. They'll make money from people buying new cards and playing the new support, and players will get to experiment with more decks, new cards, and will feel rewarded for changing their decks.
I haven't noticed anyone complaining about DK's lack of power. But I am also not reading the forums as much. To provide a counter-example, I have been really enjoying my time playing Blood-Rune Deathknight and focusing on control. It's actually the most fun I have had playing the game in a long time :) Here are my stats with it so far.
When your opponent has lethal:
My bet is that hunters new weapon attack deck is going to need to be nerfed. That's what's feeling too strong.
I am complaining. And you get these stats only because people play DK so much. But once the honeymoon ends, they will return to much better classes like Ramp Druid you have absolutely no chance against as they are better control deck in every aspect. Meta was, is and still will be Theotar and Sire - nothing changed and Druid is much better at this.
Have to disagree. Of all the decks I am currently running, my Blood DK deck is the only one (barring Celestial Druid) that remains almost unbeaten. In fact, when I test a new deck, like OTK Hunter, etc, and it fails miserably, DK is the deck I go back o to cheer myself up again! Haha!
I did try a Full Hybrid DK (one of each Rune - it was bad), and an UnHoly DK (it was average), so it may be that the other DK decks are lacking in power a little, but Blood DK is definitely uber-strong in the right hands.
I have about 60 games with blood dk, the main problem is turtle druid, I think it's the only deck that for now keeps that wr stat so low. Anyway, it's only the first day of the expansion, we already know that many things can change.
DK is tearing it up in the best mode, Arena. My theory is that DK has a ton of cards that are slightly overstatted. Great minions and removals that make it easy in arena. But a bunch of good cards is not worth much in constructed. In constructed, you need 1-2 insanely overpowered cards/combos, and maybe DK doesn’t have that (or doesn’t have that worked out yet).
Playing unholy, it just doesn't feel good as too many cards are corpse consumers and not generators. The worst of the offender is Malignant Horror. You have very little control over this card and the last thing you want is to get a 2/1 copy of it with it's reborn down for 5 corpses. A smart opponent will exploit this.
The 2nd problem is card draw. The archetype has a massive lack of it. Plagued Grain is an amazing card, but is held back by lack of draw. Most times when playing unholy, I'm hoping that I'm able to top deck something useful.
Plus it always feels like there's only 2 ways to win with it. Get lucky enough to stick a wide board then hit them with Grave Strength or land a fat marrowgar that the enemy doesn't have an answer to.
In other words, DK is just too weak. There is no such thing as an objectively strong or objectively weak deck, power level always depends on the strength of the other decks in the meta. If DK can't keep up with them, it must be underpowered, simple as that.
So ... then why are you playing with cards like Malignant Horror in your deck? No one is forcing you (the smart player won't oinclude that card in their deck) ... there are a ton of better 4-cost cards out there ... build your deck like Zoolock, so there's Defender of Argus (you're going wide anyway), the Dwarf that gives +2 attack etc. Go back to the basics. Hawkstrider Rancher is also solid at 3 mana.
As for card draw ... I sub in reasonable card generation instead. There's also decent draw if you do UUF (Plagued Grain is a distraction ... don't get sucked into needing to play UUU - Grave Strength is good, but can be replaced ... Marrowgar too, try the 2 mana Manathirst legendary for some decent final burst ... the opponent knows it is coming so usually concedes before I can play part 3).
In the last DK game I played, I had 31 unspent corpses and steamrolled the Druid I was playing against. Have tried both UUF and UUB, but haven't decided which is better yet.
--> I insta-deleted the 3 deck suggestions and built my own based on Zoolock principles and focused on undead (tip: the Amalgam is good). My two disruption cards are Coilfang Constrictor and the Plaguespreader guy (in for the achievement but not taken out yet).
And no, I don't run Denathrius ... can't stand the card so try to get creative in deckbuilding ... I just throw in cards I like or would like to play with (or against ... I'm sure my opponents like seeing some of the cards I play and am sure they've seen them very little on ladder.) The 2 mana legendary is better than Daddy D (in my humble opinion) because if you draw into him from turn 7 onwards he'll probably do more burst damage than Denathrius on turn 10 if you draw D on turn 7. Astalor just has a lot more flexibility and that's what I'm looking for in my Zooknight deck.
Good luck!
Cool story, bro. I didn't even have to buy (Gold) any new expansion packs to realize how smoothly I was gliding through Ranked with all those fancy new decks trying (and failing) to be as unfair as Imp-Curselock.
Quick glance at HSreplay confirmed, the DK Class is actually unplayable competitively, the "strongest" list roaming barely around 50% . Extra Miserable stats against Imp-Curselock (My Top 200 Legend deck of last month) as well as vs Ramp Druid.
Then again you are probably a Diamond ranked dude (at best) so your fancy Blood DK is getting you somewhere in Silver/Gold.
DKs are good when it comes to minion-on-minion combat. The thing is, people wen't around it and they play decks that don't rely on board presence at all. I try to play DK (because I don't hate fun), I'm on Gold (EU) and I'm getting constantly wrecked by Bomb Locks (not even 80 max HP saved me from getting OTK'd), Hemorrhage Rogues and Celestial Alignment/Armor Druids wit their quadruple Sire.
i mean his stats reflex what you said like..he has negative winrate against the 2 classes that everyone has negative winrate: Demon Hunter and Druid. And i belive both classes will get the nerf banner next patch. Its impossible literally that Demon Hunter and Druid run untouched the next nerf patch.
And i need to be clear here: There is not class right now that is better than Druid and Demon Hunter, except hunter and warlock, the other 2 best classes. Everyone else is doing poorly bad or just on the range of 50-55% (like Thief because most clases cant beat 10/10 Stealth on turn 5 + 10 attack weapon. So there is not point of argumen about IF DK as a class is weak or not right now because well ah...right now every single class outside the four tier 1 slots is on the same page. Its not even funny how absurly broken Spell base decks and combo decks are in this format and that has been a thing sinse the start of the year.
My guess if that they will hit DH and Druid because its impossible to ignore how over the top are and the Hunter OTK potential is going down too. The format cant stand against this kind of decks like you just need to see how this expansion was constructed to understand that most classes dont have a pull of cards that can handle those decks.
can you share the list?
I was going to mention that, another reason why DK's winrate is so low is because people are rushing to play him and are still learning how it works. So they'll end up getting crushed by the fifty Gold Hunters and Druids in Bronze 5
Brann just has to go wild; it's literally the best choice. Most decks are overly reliant on him and it makes each game feel no different then the last.
Interesting argument - DK is not as good as DH, Druid, Warlock or Hunter, but it does not mean it's weak - well, yes it does. And it has 1 strong (blood) and 1 playable (frost) deck out of 10 runes combinations.
It will get worse as DK has no room to improve and people will come back to strong decks once they stop playing with new toys.
And yes, all may change due to nerfs, but now it is what it is.
Currently control DK (Blood + X) seems quite powerful, and would most likely sit well above 50% WR if not for Druid.
The other decks are definitely falling behind a bit.
Here's a list of the top 10 best performing legend decks according to metastats, and their archetype:
As I'm sure you know, OTK/Combo > Control > Midrange > Aggro > OTK, and since OTK/Combo is currently at the top that means Control will naturally be at the bottom. The fact that Blood DK manages to get on the list despite that is an indicator that the deck is quite powerful, and that it will potentially climb to near the top of the list if OTK/Combo is nerfed.
3 OTK decks
3 OTK decks 1 Combo deck and 2 heavy high-roll decks with a LOT of reach and flexbility (both midrange list) and people really belive that board base decks and less OTK combo oriented decks have a chance to do something in this meta? Like...what?
Metastats has a limited sample size, here's the same list, but from HSReplay:
1. Bless Priest
2. Beast Hunter
3. Silver Hand Paladin
4. Imp Warlock
5. Miracle Rogue
6. Ramp Druid
7. Swarm Shaman
8. Control Paladin
9. Pure Paladin
10. Fel Demon Hunter
Blood Death Knight is in 19th place with a 44.37% winrate.
Standard, Wild, and Classic player.Losing to Sire Denathrius makes me not want to play this game anymore.The Sire Denathrius nerf makes me want to play this game again.
Losing to Deathrattle Rogue makes me not want to play this game anymore.
The Prince Renathal nerf makes me not want to play this game anymore.