Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius, runing him in token druid and imp lock is kind of "optional" You have REALLY good reasons to run him on Warlock tho. The problem is: what about the other top decks? Value mage, value rogue, Paladin, Ramp Druid, those kind of decks have a card that will beat u if you play slow decks of any kind that dont insta win, if you dont have Theotar.
Theothar is just Half of the problem, the other half is this meta with decks that cant dealt with Denathrius, Tess, cards with really strong Battle Cry effects that change win the game when played. What do u do against those cards? The main reason why Theothar is played in every single deck is that...well there is nothing better to play to balance the game. Devs dont like him, probably players neither but without him a lot of decks would be doomed.
The one thing I don't get. The Devs know that Theotar is not enjoyable - they stated as much in their own comments on the nerf (see below - bold for emphasis). They don't want people to play it, because it stops you playing with your new shiny cards and it isn't fun. Yet they release Patchwerk - a single blood Legendary which is going to feature in a high percentage of DK decks. I know you don't get to choose the cards and it only targets minions, but Patchwerk isn't a tempo loss in the same way as Theotar and removes cards from deck as well (and targeting minions is often the intended goal of Theotar anyway).
Why is it fun to lose important cards to a new card, but not fun to lose them to a slightly older one?
The release of a new class is an incredibly exciting moment for Hearthstone players everywhere, and a moment that we want to be as enjoyable and accessible as possible. Knowing the importance of this new class release, our plan with Theotar was to test out a smaller change to the card (from 4 to 5 mana in Patch 24.4.3) before potentially moving for a larger change if necessary. Theotar’s play rate did not drop as far as we would have liked it to with the smaller change, and is still higher than we would like it to be leading into March of the Lich King. Our aim with this second change is to lower the card’s play rate to ensure that the release of Death Knight is as fun as possible for players with a wide variety of interests and experience levels.
Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius, runing him in token druid and imp lock is kind of "optional" You have REALLY good reasons to run him on Warlock tho. The problem is: what about the other top decks? Value mage, value rogue, Paladin, Ramp Druid, those kind of decks have a card that will beat u if you play slow decks of any kind that dont insta win, if you dont have Theotar.
Theothar is just Half of the problem, the other half is this meta with decks that cant dealt with Denathrius, Tess, cards with really strong Battle Cry effects that change win the game when played. What do u do against those cards? The main reason why Theothar is played in every single deck is that...well there is nothing better to play to balance the game. Devs dont like him, probably players neither but without him a lot of decks would be doomed.
Mage doesn’t need Denathrius and has redundancy. Rogue is playing jackpot, Theotar does little against this matchup. Paladin is the same, if you have to choose between jailer and Denathrius, is it better to play something else? The answer to denathrius decks is to play something more proactive that has a gameplan. Relying on Theotar to solve denathrius isn’t it.
Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius, runing him in token druid and imp lock is kind of "optional" You have REALLY good reasons to run him on Warlock tho. The problem is: what about the other top decks? Value mage, value rogue, Paladin, Ramp Druid, those kind of decks have a card that will beat u if you play slow decks of any kind that dont insta win, if you dont have Theotar.
Theothar is just Half of the problem, the other half is this meta with decks that cant dealt with Denathrius, Tess, cards with really strong Battle Cry effects that change win the game when played. What do u do against those cards? The main reason why Theothar is played in every single deck is that...well there is nothing better to play to balance the game. Devs dont like him, probably players neither but without him a lot of decks would be doomed.
Mage doesn’t need Denathrius and has redundancy. Rogue is playing jackpot, Theotar does little against this matchup. Paladin is the same, if you have to choose between jailer and Denathrius, is it better to play something else? The answer to denathrius decks is to play something more proactive that has a gameplan. Relying on Theotar to solve denathrius isn’t it.
What is a more proactive gameplan y classes that dont have it? "Play Naga Priest" and accept to lose to board clear when you dont draw the combo or your oponent just hold hard removal forever until you commit or just try to win the matches against not AoE decks which wont happen neither. Nope, there is not other answer than Theothar and Mutanus for MY decks. Try the dragon package against this meta, its not even enough with all the pro-active plays it has. Face it, Denatrius kill most out-meta decks right now. You have access to heavy minion/spell spam or you have an OTK or just dont play this expansion.
Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius, runing him in token druid and imp lock is kind of "optional" You have REALLY good reasons to run him on Warlock tho. The problem is: what about the other top decks? Value mage, value rogue, Paladin, Ramp Druid, those kind of decks have a card that will beat u if you play slow decks of any kind that dont insta win, if you dont have Theotar.
Theothar is just Half of the problem, the other half is this meta with decks that cant dealt with Denathrius, Tess, cards with really strong Battle Cry effects that change win the game when played. What do u do against those cards? The main reason why Theothar is played in every single deck is that...well there is nothing better to play to balance the game. Devs dont like him, probably players neither but without him a lot of decks would be doomed.
Mage doesn’t need Denathrius and has redundancy. Rogue is playing jackpot, Theotar does little against this matchup. Paladin is the same, if you have to choose between jailer and Denathrius, is it better to play something else? The answer to denathrius decks is to play something more proactive that has a gameplan. Relying on Theotar to solve denathrius isn’t it.
Do you think Theotar being released with Denathtrius is an oversight or a coincidence by the dev team?
I've been theorycrafting a bunch in preparation for launch. I've made decks for every class except Hunter,
Ah - Hunter is (aside from DK obv) the class I most want to experiment with in the new expac. In particular, the Weapon hunter with the 40+-damage 3-card OTK burst for the finisher. And with the coin, this ramps up to a 4-card 60+ damage OTK! Woop!
Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius,
Not to skew the conversation here (since this thread is about Theotar rather than Denathrius), but it's probably worth mentioning that he featured in EVERY deck in the recent tournament. If he wasn't needed, then I am pretty sure this wouldn't have been the case.
Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius,
Not to skew the conversation here (since this thread is about Theotar rather than Denathrius), but it's probably worth mentioning that he featured in EVERY deck in the recent tournament. If he wasn't needed, then I am pretty sure this wouldn't have been the case.
Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius, runing him in token druid and imp lock is kind of "optional" You have REALLY good reasons to run him on Warlock tho. The problem is: what about the other top decks? Value mage, value rogue, Paladin, Ramp Druid, those kind of decks have a card that will beat u if you play slow decks of any kind that dont insta win, if you dont have Theotar.
Theothar is just Half of the problem, the other half is this meta with decks that cant dealt with Denathrius, Tess, cards with really strong Battle Cry effects that change win the game when played. What do u do against those cards? The main reason why Theothar is played in every single deck is that...well there is nothing better to play to balance the game. Devs dont like him, probably players neither but without him a lot of decks would be doomed.
Mage doesn’t need Denathrius and has redundancy. Rogue is playing jackpot, Theotar does little against this matchup. Paladin is the same, if you have to choose between jailer and Denathrius, is it better to play something else? The answer to denathrius decks is to play something more proactive that has a gameplan. Relying on Theotar to solve denathrius isn’t it.
What is a more proactive gameplan y classes that dont have it? "Play Naga Priest" and accept to lose to board clear when you dont draw the combo or your oponent just hold hard removal forever until you commit or just try to win the matches against not AoE decks which wont happen neither. Nope, there is not other answer than Theothar and Mutanus for MY decks. Try the dragon package against this meta, its not even enough with all the pro-active plays it has. Face it, Denatrius kill most out-meta decks right now. You have access to heavy minion/spell spam or you have an OTK or just dont play this expansion.
Play a more proactive deck. Play thief rogue, naga priest, implock, beast hunter, relic DH, big spell mage… none of these decks care about Theotar. If you are playing against Druid, the only class currently able to play brann/Denathrius reliably, kill them before they have a fully charged Theotar. Every other class running denathrius needs at least 10 turns if not more to play him, try to win before then?
Here’s the thing about Theotar, he’s bad. He was bad at 5 mana. He is bad at 6 mana. It’s a turn 6 4/4 with no immediate impact. I see everyone saying he steals denathrius and so he is mandatory, but that is pretty much for ramp Druid and maybe phylactery warlock. The best decks and most popular decks don’t care about Theotar at all. Shaman being able to abuse it with schooling is a different story because you are almost guaranteed a terrible trade, so it makes Theotar a bit better. If you are playing Theotar, cut him and win more games. Theotar is so niche that if you need him to beat ramp Druid, you are probably going to lose to one of the other wincons in that deck.
Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius,
Not to skew the conversation here (since this thread is about Theotar rather than Denathrius), but it's probably worth mentioning that he featured in EVERY deck in the recent tournament. If he wasn't needed, then I am pretty sure this wouldn't have been the case.
The thing with Denathrius is that this decks dont really need him to win but they CAN win with him. So why dont put him in the deck? is just 1 card and honestly when he appears fast he will win the game for u or atleast give u better odds.
@RendInFriend Friend, my point is exactly that. I dont care about those decks, i play value Priest, and talking from that only perspective is maybe wrong but i am pretty pure control priest is not the only deck that is unable to beat a Long-Game deck with Denathrius on top. Denathrius itself is not something that will kill you but if your oponent dry your resources and them will finish you with Denathrius. A lot of decks cant play against that. And to make it worse you just name the top dogs (and naga priest which as a up and down winrate but honestly it does pretty bad against the most played decks)
So he have two cards that the player base dont really like: Theotar which is the main target of nerfs because is not the face of the actual expansion a Denathrius a card that the devs admit they will probablynerf in the future but they dont want to nerf right now because is the face of this expansion They want people to "test him with the new cards to see if he is more balance there" - With a new expansion filled with resurrect a lot of minions and trade super big boards turn after turn...yeah that would be "fun" to see who has the biggest denathrius on curve as a Plan B wincon or who can set-up a denathrius combo as a main wincon.
Because of Denathrius i find Theotar effect very balance. We have a meta with super strong "hand to board" effects. We cant interact very well with this kind of cards and just delayed this cards dont supposed any problem for the opponent because eventually they are going to play them and get a heavy impact on the board that may win them the game on the spot. Until this changes i am in favor of Theotar. When that changes? sure delete the card.
Who is running denathrius in the top decks right now, druid and…? What is “value priest” even? It sounds like you don’t have a wincon and the strategy is to answer and withstand all threats your opponent plays then play your power spike. It’s a dead strategy. Look, I love priest too, it’s my favorite class. I understand what you want to play, but those days are gone. It’s not just denathrius that killed it either. The value in priest now is draw/discount and naga priest isn’t up or down, it’s one of the best decks if not the best deck depending where you are on the ladder. Theotar is bad card and trying to play 20 turns is a long gone strategy. I’m not saying Theotar was never good or that he isn’t good in your case, but attrition decks that grind out games are going away. If you think it’s bad now, wait until DK comes out, there is no way decks that don’t have a proactive wincon stand a chance.
Who is running denathrius in the top decks right now, druid and…? What is “value priest” even? It sounds like you don’t have a wincon and the strategy is to answer and withstand all threats your opponent plays then play your power spike. It’s a dead strategy. Look, I love priest too, it’s my favorite class. I understand what you want to play, but those days are gone. It’s not just denathrius that killed it either. The value in priest now is draw/discount and naga priest isn’t up or down, it’s one of the best decks if not the best deck depending where you are on the ladder. Theotar is bad card and trying to play 20 turns is a long gone strategy. I’m not saying Theotar was never good or that he isn’t good in your case, but attrition decks that grind out games are going away. If you think it’s bad now, wait until DK comes out, there is no way decks that don’t have a proactive wincon stand a chance.
Sure whatever u said buddy. Look one think is said "u can climb with nagga priest" but nagga priest is the most easy deck to counter on ladder right now. The only place where the deck shines is on the high ranks were people spam Imp-Lock and Token Druid. Both the only decks on ladder that cant board wipe every turn. I dont see any proof of Naga Priest being a good deck overall. Is just a product of the ladder. Its good against decks that are not good dealing with a lot of minions in one hit. But the decks that are good doing that are bad against the top dogs (Imp Lock in particular that has a lot of tools to punish control decks). So Imp lock, the good deck keep on check the decks that destroy Nagga Priest so Nagga Priest is "good" in the same ranks were people is playing a lot of imp-lock.
I play many versions of Nagga Priest for one week and just come to the conclusion that is a deck that depends of other decks to be good. Its boring to play, its really hopeless against a lot of off-meta matchups. And dont even offers a great challengue to pilot. Its just learn when to hold your cards when play your cards, when over commit and when auto-concede. Boring Pseudo Zoo deck. Edit: you can argue that one dimensional decks like Demon Hunter or Naga Priest are not good or bad, but for sure not my style of play, i dont get any joy of ranking with stuff like that.
I think you're only going to see it stop being mandatory at like... 8 mana. That's how powerful I feel the effect is at just breaking control matchups. I don't feel like denathrius is the reason why you're forced to play the card, even though it's grossly overpowered and needs changing, it's that control decks have so many core cards vital to their gameplan that shuts the deck down if stolen. Any hero card, most legendaries are just backbreaking to lose.
I also find it frustrating how combo decks were always what kept control decks in check, and now control decks have so many ways to make combo decks irrelevant - more than aggro face rushing it down, even. Why aren't control decks allowed to have this weakness anymore?
I'm cool with disruption but for the love of god stop being so discard heavy about it, it's not fun or interesting to have your win conditions RNG burnt out of your hand. Cards like Mutanus the Devourer, Dirty Rat, Gnomeferatu, Unseen Saboteur the new Patchwerk and 5 mana warrior spell discarder are prime examples of "maybe I just randomly win if I play this". Theotar is the one that sits on top because his disruption is even more aggressive giving the player a choice of 3 cards so it can be targeted more. By all means print disruption cards but make those disruptors require some actual foresight and brains to play, with good examples like Loatheb, Coilfang Constrictor, Forensic Duster, Nerubian Unraveler, Nerub'ar Weblord just to give some examples.
The whole theotar situation feels like Mindrender Illucia all over again where it was changed 4 times because of how much it warped the game, blizzard are just being stubborn about it (and even noted that it might get changed further).
Patchwerk is fucking terrible. Didnt think mill rogue could get more obnoxious.
What you younglings can't understand is that Theotar and Denathrius are 2 cards that exist for each other. The nerf on Theotar was okayish, but no matter how much they increase its mana cost it will still be played. One guy said even if he is 10 mana 1/1 he would play Theotar because of the effect.
But the real problem with cards like Theotar is the lack of a heavy aggro meta. If people see more aggressive decks being played like Implock or Beast Hunter they will remove Theotar from their decks.
But if they keep seeing your unique Control Shaman (with Denathrius) your special token Druid (with Denathrius), your midrange-control Paladin (with Denathrius) and your Combo Mage or your ressurect Priest which has some key cards to win OF COURSE THEY WILL BE PLAYING THEOTAR.
Those are the classes I have seen running him at Diamond level this week. The only classes I don't see him played in (that I recall) are Mage and Warrior.
Patchwerk is fucking terrible. Didnt think mill rogue could get more obnoxious.
Got to agree with you there - I can seriously see this as a card I will love to play and absolutely loathe to have played against me. It is like Mutanus on toxic steroids.
Patchwerk is fucking terrible. Didnt think mill rogue could get more obnoxious.
Got to agree with you there - I can seriously see this as a card I will love to play and absolutely loathe to have played against me. It is like Mutanus on toxic steroids.
The battlecry alone makes it an automatic 3 for 1 card with a board altering effect, it's ridiculous. If brann is in play it's a 6 for 1, and we aren't even counting the 4/6 body which might do something extra. Brann patchwerk is going to be a real "fuck this game" moment and bring a lot of complaints to both patchwerk and brann still existing in standard imo.
Patchwerkwill get nerfed. I've called it several times. Watching the streams yesterday, you saw how miserable it truly was. Blood decks are control, so they're playing lifesteal and board clears, and that new hp booster, to stall the game. That minion that discovers a blood rune card has a VERY small pool since there's few blood rune cards. So watching people play that, they were regularly getting both patchwerk and mograine offered to them in the same pool. Plus, all the decks were running Zola in order to duplicate their win cons since the deck was so stally. Was common to see opponent all but lose after the first patch was played, let alone number 2 and 3. And god forbid if you're taking 6 damage a turn from mograine. Plus Denathrius was always waiting to finish the game.
I think they'll change patchwerk to 3 blood runes, then realize that does nothing but stop unholy playing it (I'd rather have patchwerk over marrowgar) and have to up it to 8 mana. It'll continue being a problem after. I think it'll be a major problem unless they completely rework it, but they'll be stubborn like with theotar.
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Well you hit a good point there. Most top dog decks dont need Denathrius, runing him in token druid and imp lock is kind of "optional" You have REALLY good reasons to run him on Warlock tho. The problem is: what about the other top decks? Value mage, value rogue, Paladin, Ramp Druid, those kind of decks have a card that will beat u if you play slow decks of any kind that dont insta win, if you dont have Theotar.
Theothar is just Half of the problem, the other half is this meta with decks that cant dealt with Denathrius, Tess, cards with really strong Battle Cry effects that change win the game when played. What do u do against those cards? The main reason why Theothar is played in every single deck is that...well there is nothing better to play to balance the game. Devs dont like him, probably players neither but without him a lot of decks would be doomed.
The one thing I don't get. The Devs know that Theotar is not enjoyable - they stated as much in their own comments on the nerf (see below - bold for emphasis). They don't want people to play it, because it stops you playing with your new shiny cards and it isn't fun. Yet they release Patchwerk - a single blood Legendary which is going to feature in a high percentage of DK decks. I know you don't get to choose the cards and it only targets minions, but Patchwerk isn't a tempo loss in the same way as Theotar and removes cards from deck as well (and targeting minions is often the intended goal of Theotar anyway).
Why is it fun to lose important cards to a new card, but not fun to lose them to a slightly older one?
The release of a new class is an incredibly exciting moment for Hearthstone players everywhere, and a moment that we want to be as enjoyable and accessible as possible. Knowing the importance of this new class release, our plan with Theotar was to test out a smaller change to the card (from 4 to 5 mana in Patch 24.4.3) before potentially moving for a larger change if necessary. Theotar’s play rate did not drop as far as we would have liked it to with the smaller change, and is still higher than we would like it to be leading into March of the Lich King. Our aim with this second change is to lower the card’s play rate to ensure that the release of Death Knight is as fun as possible for players with a wide variety of interests and experience levels.
Mage doesn’t need Denathrius and has redundancy. Rogue is playing jackpot, Theotar does little against this matchup. Paladin is the same, if you have to choose between jailer and Denathrius, is it better to play something else? The answer to denathrius decks is to play something more proactive that has a gameplan. Relying on Theotar to solve denathrius isn’t it.
What is a more proactive gameplan y classes that dont have it? "Play Naga Priest" and accept to lose to board clear when you dont draw the combo or your oponent just hold hard removal forever until you commit or just try to win the matches against not AoE decks which wont happen neither. Nope, there is not other answer than Theothar and Mutanus for MY decks. Try the dragon package against this meta, its not even enough with all the pro-active plays it has. Face it, Denatrius kill most out-meta decks right now. You have access to heavy minion/spell spam or you have an OTK or just dont play this expansion.
Do you think Theotar being released with Denathtrius is an oversight or a coincidence by the dev team?
Ah - Hunter is (aside from DK obv) the class I most want to experiment with in the new expac.
In particular, the Weapon hunter with the 40+-damage 3-card OTK burst for the finisher.
And with the coin, this ramps up to a 4-card 60+ damage OTK! Woop!
Not to skew the conversation here (since this thread is about Theotar rather than Denathrius), but it's probably worth mentioning that he featured in EVERY deck in the recent tournament. If he wasn't needed, then I am pretty sure this wouldn't have been the case.
Tournament is so different than ranked ladder.
Play a more proactive deck. Play thief rogue, naga priest, implock, beast hunter, relic DH, big spell mage… none of these decks care about Theotar. If you are playing against Druid, the only class currently able to play brann/Denathrius reliably, kill them before they have a fully charged Theotar. Every other class running denathrius needs at least 10 turns if not more to play him, try to win before then?
The thing with Denathrius is that this decks dont really need him to win but they CAN win with him. So why dont put him in the deck? is just 1 card and honestly when he appears fast he will win the game for u or atleast give u better odds.
@RendInFriend
Friend, my point is exactly that. I dont care about those decks, i play value Priest, and talking from that only perspective is maybe wrong but i am pretty pure control priest is not the only deck that is unable to beat a Long-Game deck with Denathrius on top. Denathrius itself is not something that will kill you but if your oponent dry your resources and them will finish you with Denathrius. A lot of decks cant play against that. And to make it worse you just name the top dogs (and naga priest which as a up and down winrate but honestly it does pretty bad against the most played decks)
So he have two cards that the player base dont really like: Theotar which is the main target of nerfs because is not the face of the actual expansion a Denathrius a card that the devs admit they will probably nerf in the future but they dont want to nerf right now because is the face of this expansion They want people to "test him with the new cards to see if he is more balance there" - With a new expansion filled with resurrect a lot of minions and trade super big boards turn after turn...yeah that would be "fun" to see who has the biggest denathrius on curve as a Plan B wincon or who can set-up a denathrius combo as a main wincon.
Because of Denathrius i find Theotar effect very balance. We have a meta with super strong "hand to board" effects. We cant interact very well with this kind of cards and just delayed this cards dont supposed any problem for the opponent because eventually they are going to play them and get a heavy impact on the board that may win them the game on the spot. Until this changes i am in favor of Theotar. When that changes? sure delete the card.
Who is running denathrius in the top decks right now, druid and…? What is “value priest” even? It sounds like you don’t have a wincon and the strategy is to answer and withstand all threats your opponent plays then play your power spike. It’s a dead strategy. Look, I love priest too, it’s my favorite class. I understand what you want to play, but those days are gone. It’s not just denathrius that killed it either. The value in priest now is draw/discount and naga priest isn’t up or down, it’s one of the best decks if not the best deck depending where you are on the ladder. Theotar is bad card and trying to play 20 turns is a long gone strategy. I’m not saying Theotar was never good or that he isn’t good in your case, but attrition decks that grind out games are going away. If you think it’s bad now, wait until DK comes out, there is no way decks that don’t have a proactive wincon stand a chance.
Sure whatever u said buddy. Look one think is said "u can climb with nagga priest" but nagga priest is the most easy deck to counter on ladder right now. The only place where the deck shines is on the high ranks were people spam Imp-Lock and Token Druid. Both the only decks on ladder that cant board wipe every turn. I dont see any proof of Naga Priest being a good deck overall. Is just a product of the ladder. Its good against decks that are not good dealing with a lot of minions in one hit. But the decks that are good doing that are bad against the top dogs (Imp Lock in particular that has a lot of tools to punish control decks). So Imp lock, the good deck keep on check the decks that destroy Nagga Priest so Nagga Priest is "good" in the same ranks were people is playing a lot of imp-lock.
I play many versions of Nagga Priest for one week and just come to the conclusion that is a deck that depends of other decks to be good. Its boring to play, its really hopeless against a lot of off-meta matchups. And dont even offers a great challengue to pilot. Its just learn when to hold your cards when play your cards, when over commit and when auto-concede. Boring Pseudo Zoo deck. Edit: you can argue that one dimensional decks like Demon Hunter or Naga Priest are not good or bad, but for sure not my style of play, i dont get any joy of ranking with stuff like that.
Patchwerk is fucking terrible. Didnt think mill rogue could get more obnoxious.
Fun > Meta
What you younglings can't understand is that Theotar and Denathrius are 2 cards that exist for each other. The nerf on Theotar was okayish, but no matter how much they increase its mana cost it will still be played. One guy said even if he is 10 mana 1/1 he would play Theotar because of the effect.
But the real problem with cards like Theotar is the lack of a heavy aggro meta. If people see more aggressive decks being played like Implock or Beast Hunter they will remove Theotar from their decks.
But if they keep seeing your unique Control Shaman (with Denathrius) your special token Druid (with Denathrius), your midrange-control Paladin (with Denathrius) and your Combo Mage or your ressurect Priest which has some key cards to win OF COURSE THEY WILL BE PLAYING THEOTAR.
Warlock, Priest, Hunter, Paladin, Demon Hunter, Shaman
Those are the classes I have seen running him at Diamond level this week.
The only classes I don't see him played in (that I recall) are Mage and Warrior.
Got to agree with you there - I can seriously see this as a card I will love to play and absolutely loathe to have played against me. It is like Mutanus on toxic steroids.
The battlecry alone makes it an automatic 3 for 1 card with a board altering effect, it's ridiculous. If brann is in play it's a 6 for 1, and we aren't even counting the 4/6 body which might do something extra. Brann patchwerk is going to be a real "fuck this game" moment and bring a lot of complaints to both patchwerk and brann still existing in standard imo.
Patchwerkwill get nerfed. I've called it several times. Watching the streams yesterday, you saw how miserable it truly was. Blood decks are control, so they're playing lifesteal and board clears, and that new hp booster, to stall the game. That minion that discovers a blood rune card has a VERY small pool since there's few blood rune cards. So watching people play that, they were regularly getting both patchwerk and mograine offered to them in the same pool. Plus, all the decks were running Zola in order to duplicate their win cons since the deck was so stally. Was common to see opponent all but lose after the first patch was played, let alone number 2 and 3. And god forbid if you're taking 6 damage a turn from mograine. Plus Denathrius was always waiting to finish the game.
I think they'll change patchwerk to 3 blood runes, then realize that does nothing but stop unholy playing it (I'd rather have patchwerk over marrowgar) and have to up it to 8 mana. It'll continue being a problem after. I think it'll be a major problem unless they completely rework it, but they'll be stubborn like with theotar.