I believe that this wasn’t initially the case but is becoming more and more of a reality now. Decks are becoming so strong and fast that it hurts you more in the long run to not chose taking more synergistic cards.
Back in the day, playing midrange paladin, the game was more about playing strong individual cards each turn like muster for battle and true silver. There was much more room to play one or two tech cards when that was the play style. Now you need to be working towards your end goal each turn or the opponent will just reach their’s first.
Sometimes you can justify a tech card in Wild if one deck becomes so broken that a majority is running them. This has happened with secret mage, Rez priest, etc… but that’s a major judgement call.
they made an epic to destroy LOCATIONS and guess what...almost zero play...because NOt all classes use LOCATIONS...so that card is FILLER...its USELESS....a waste of time and space......and THERES TONS OF OTHER CARDS that do the same...they are just THERE...doing nothing.
so THEN WHY DA FK U MADE THEM IN THJ FIRST PLACE'??!?!?!!! WWWWWWWWWTFGCDGDSTSDF SDF SDF 2345BSD TR
they made an epic to destroy LOCATIONS and guess what...almost zero play...because NOt all classes use LOCATIONS...so that card is FILLER...its USELESS....a waste of time and space......and THERES TONS OF OTHER CARDS that do the same...they are just THERE...doing nothing.
so THEN WHY DA FK U MADE THEM IN THJ FIRST PLACE'??!?!?!!! WWWWWWWWWTFGCDGDSTSDF SDF SDF 2345BSD TR
they made an epic to destroy LOCATIONS and guess what...almost zero play...because NOt all classes use LOCATIONS...so that card is FILLER...its USELESS....a waste of time and space......and THERES TONS OF OTHER CARDS that do the same...they are just THERE...doing nothing.
so THEN WHY DA FK U MADE THEM IN THJ FIRST PLACE'??!?!?!!! WWWWWWWWWTFGCDGDSTSDF SDF SDF 2345BSD TR
It's part if their business model and a money and time sink for the players. Lose badly to a specific deck, craft an epic or two, or even a legendary to counter it. It's almost never correct to use tech cards, and the fewer the applications, the worse it becomes. Locations destruction will always be bad. They don't even stop the first activation, and they are a net tempo loss when if they do.
Because the game is rigged, you will never truly know how useful the tech cards are. As a former highly ranked magic player, tech cards were for sideboards. You would only put in a tech card unless a meta was truly dominated by one particular deck or class. A tech card is generally suboptimal against decks other than its intended target. So you do yourself more harm than good by including it. If there is a nuetral card that is in the majority of decks, then you could consider it. But that only happens as a result of poor design, balance and a lack of testing.
SInce hearthstone is a rigged shitshow, discussing strategy is moot. Unless you are talking about gaming the algo.
3nn1: surely you’ve quit playing the game a long time ago once you discovered that the game was “rigged” right?
If that were true and something that actually happened to people, we would see a lot less people financially and emotionallydestroyed by gambling addiction (among other addictions, etc). Sadly though, it's human nature to keep going with something in the vain hope that "this time will be different". It's the same with Hearthstone in a weird sort of way. You know the game is stacked against you, but it's ok because "this time will be different".... :-/
When you’re gambling, you do win sometimes and the stakes are much higher as you’re risking your own money. Without going too much into it, the psychological dynamic isn’t the same. Also, gambling often doesn’t pit you against another player in a duel, that’s another key difference for the reasons discussed below.
In this user’s opinion, everything is rigged. Honestly I’ve read so many of those conspiracies that it’s hard to keep track of it all as they range from “players who pay win automatically” to “matching someone on the same skill level is rigging the game”. It’s hard to get a definite answer as to how the game is rigged exactly as when you provide a counter argument, they suddenly stop responding (until they bring it back up a while later in a different thread).
If everything is rigged, none of your decisions matter, you are “rigged” to win or lose. You could always play your left side card on each turn and you’d win because it rigged and you’re playing against a f2p player. Of course, this whole theory crumbles under a modicum of scrutiny but faith is something which you can’t reason with.
Q. How do you explain that there’s a winner when two f2p players face each other? A. Oh that never happens, based on my nonexistent data, the loser is always whoever doesn’t pay as much as the winner.
Another recurring argument is that the winner was rigged to draw “perfectly”, as if the player agency had *nothing* to do with the victory. Anyway, the list goes on but there’s just no way for putting those absurdities to rest, they just keep popping up. There’s always someone to blame (or something) one key character is always innocent: the proponent of the conspiracy. They never misplay, a defeat on their part is always caused by some unseen algorithm they have no control over. If this isn’t some kind of mental disorder, I don’t know what is.
When you’re gambling, you do win sometimes and the stakes are much higher as you’re risking your own money. Without going too much into it, the psychological dynamic isn’t the same. Also, gambling often doesn’t pit you against another player in a duel, that’s another key difference for the reasons discussed below.
In this user’s opinion, everything is rigged. Honestly I’ve read so many of those conspiracies that it’s hard to keep track of it all as they range from “players who pay win automatically” to “matching someone on the same skill level is rigging the game”. It’s hard to get a definite answer as to how the game is rigged exactly as when you provide a counter argument, they suddenly stop responding (until they bring it back up a while later in a different thread).
If everything is rigged, none of your decisions matter, you are “rigged” to win or lose. You could always play your left side card on each turn and you’d win because it rigged and you’re playing against a f2p player. Of course, this whole theory crumbles under a modicum of scrutiny but faith is something which you can’t reason with.
Q. How do you explain that there’s a winner when two f2p players face each other? A. Oh that never happens, based on my nonexistent data, the loser is always whoever doesn’t pay as much as the winner.
Another recurring argument is that the winner was rigged to draw “perfectly”, as if the player agency had *nothing* to do with the victory. Anyway, the list goes on but there’s just no way for putting those absurdities to rest, they just keep popping up. There’s always someone to blame (or something) one key character is always innocent: the proponent of the conspiracy. They never misplay, a defeat on their part is always caused by some unseen algorithm they have no control over. If this isn’t some kind of mental disorder, I don’t know what is.
It’s just people not understanding the difference between statistics and personal anecdotes
When you’re gambling, you do win sometimes and the stakes are much higher as you’re risking your own money. Without going too much into it, the psychological dynamic isn’t the same. Also, gambling often doesn’t pit you against another player in a duel, that’s another key difference for the reasons discussed below.
In this user’s opinion, everything is rigged. Honestly I’ve read so many of those conspiracies that it’s hard to keep track of it all as they range from “players who pay win automatically” to “matching someone on the same skill level is rigging the game”. It’s hard to get a definite answer as to how the game is rigged exactly as when you provide a counter argument, they suddenly stop responding (until they bring it back up a while later in a different thread).
If everything is rigged, none of your decisions matter, you are “rigged” to win or lose. You could always play your left side card on each turn and you’d win because it rigged and you’re playing against a f2p player. Of course, this whole theory crumbles under a modicum of scrutiny but faith is something which you can’t reason with.
Q. How do you explain that there’s a winner when two f2p players face each other? A. Oh that never happens, based on my nonexistent data, the loser is always whoever doesn’t pay as much as the winner.
Another recurring argument is that the winner was rigged to draw “perfectly”, as if the player agency had *nothing* to do with the victory. Anyway, the list goes on but there’s just no way for putting those absurdities to rest, they just keep popping up. There’s always someone to blame (or something) one key character is always innocent: the proponent of the conspiracy. They never misplay, a defeat on their part is always caused by some unseen algorithm they have no control over. If this isn’t some kind of mental disorder, I don’t know what is.
Well said, especially the final para. Too many of these guys fail to realize how often their own mistakes (rather than a rigged game) lead to their defeat. A while back one of the guys on my friend list was spectating one of my games. I was playing a deck that was somewhat new to me (can't recall anymore what it was) but which I thought I knew pretty well. After I lost the first game he watched, he proceeded (very politely) to point out 3-4 major mistakes I made, ones I didn't even realize I was making. And I'm a pretty good player (I think).
If these guys spent half as much time reviewing their previous games as they do complaining about secret algorithms and Blizzard patents, they'd start seeing that they're more responsible for their losses than they realize.
Probably worth pointing out here that your comment (that I responded to) was about what a person's reaction to finding out the game was "rigged" should or shouldn't be (in your opinion), and not whether the game is actually rigged or not (a separate issue).
And therefore, my own comment was in response to your supposition, making note of the fact that just because something is rigged (if it was), doesn't stop a person from engaging with it, because (just like any addiction), the human brain will always choose to fool itself into thinking that it's probably NOT rigged, and therefore "this time will be different"...
The people complaining that Hearthstone is rigged aren't struggling with Hearthstone addiction, they're just salty when they lose and bad at statistics.
Having dealt with actual addictions in the past, continuing to play Hearthstone even though you're convinced without evidence that it's "rigged" against you isn't the same thing.
If it was an addiction, realizing and acknowledging how harmful it was to your life would be an important first step towards quitting and people should be encouraged to do that. Saying "oh well I'm sure there will be no consequences THIS time" isn't helpful.
It's not an addiction. though, so I wouldn't worry about it.
“Probably worth pointing out here that your comment (that I responded to) was about what a person's reaction to finding out the game was "rigged" should or shouldn't be (in your opinion), and not whether the game is actually rigged or not (a separate issue). ”
Isn’t there part of your sentence missing here? Should or shouldn’t determine whether people play or not? Either way, I agree, they are separate issues. I was trying to say that player agency does play into whether a player wins or loses (just like playing poker actually). The thing will the gambling analogy is that “this time will be different” doesn’t work here, with Hearthstone. With gambling, people are winning. So technically, “this time will be different” is not untrue. The odds might not be in your favor, but there’s a probability that you will win. So there’s a risk/reward thrill which lead to an addictive behaviour.
With the “hearthstone is rigged” theory, there would be no point in playing at all since the victor would always whoever invests the more money in Hearthstone. Unless 3nnu1 still plays because he enjoys when the game is “rigged” in his favour and he wins. If that’s the case, you would have a point. I doubt people would enjoy winning a game knowing they have been rigged to win from the onset but who knows, it might be the case.
On a different topic, if he/she is still around, I’d like to make a wager with him/her. Start two new accounts, one in which I’d spend x amount of money in and one where I’d f2p. Then I’d play the same amount of games with both accounts and record everything. In each game, I’d do nothing just, pass my turn every time. In the end, we could compare if paying money determines the winning outcome. We could wage 500$ whether it would or not, payable by PayPal. If I’m wrong, then the game would appear to be rigged, with a predetermined outcome in every game. If both accounts systematically lose, however, it would mean player agency does matter. Then we could take things from there and conduct more experiments: have another hearthstone player who has invested a huge amount of money play a completely random deck against a net deck and keep track of his or her winrate. Would any of the the conspiracy theorists risk that wager? None. Why? Because they know it would prove them wrong and they’d need to backpedal and admit that the game isn’t, as previously put, a rigged shitshow and own up that they have some responsibility whether they lose or not.
I can guarantee that every time, the conspiracy that everything is rigged would be disproven. Every time. That’s what I mean by pushing back against the conspiracy claims. It never happens because those who support the theory always vanish when they’re pressed. I’m writing a lot about this but it’s a let peeve of mine. HS has balancing issues and is driven by weird design imperatives but “the whole thing is rigged” is not fair criticism which should be rightly dismissed.
I’d like to end with a quote from the protagonist:
“But then I thought, if the game is designed for stupid assholes, might as well play like one and see how much fun it is. So I check implock, hmm, only need to craft the legend fucker, will go with that. Hmmm, whose the most annoying hero, perfect, this nemsy bitch is insufferable. So I immediately concede my first 10 games to get good RNG (the game is rigged remember, the same dudes who told you DH is balanced are the ones who claim it isn't). Afterwards I play 10 more, go 9-1 all the while emoting, roping and being the douchiest of bags. And guess what, this is what the game is designed for. ”
Keep in mind that the narrator here plays the game for “stupid assholes”.
I think a sideboard could work. But, I think you'd need to do something like have 3 prebuilt sideboard decks. You name them something you can remember like vs. control, vs. combo, vs. aggro.
Then between games you can pick one of your 3 prebuilt decks to choose from. The rope starts burning on your decision as soon as the deck options pop up. The idea is to have almost zero time spent waiting for sideboarding to take place.
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hey...it was only my opinion..
I had used tons of tech cards...like eater of secrets...and guess what..that unfair algorigmt always matches me with CLASSES THAT HAVE NO SECRETS...
BECAUSE THE GAME WANTS ME TO LOSE.
i take OUT EATER OF SECRETS..AND GUESS WHAT...I GET MATCHED VS SECRET MAGES AND SECRET ROGUES.....WOW..WHAT ARE THE ODDS!
go face!
Of course they are useless, what you expected? Being able to play with your own creation?
Be serious, pick meta deck of your choice. Nobody innovates at Hearthstone in 2022
I believe that this wasn’t initially the case but is becoming more and more of a reality now. Decks are becoming so strong and fast that it hurts you more in the long run to not chose taking more synergistic cards.
Back in the day, playing midrange paladin, the game was more about playing strong individual cards each turn like muster for battle and true silver. There was much more room to play one or two tech cards when that was the play style. Now you need to be working towards your end goal each turn or the opponent will just reach their’s first.
Sometimes you can justify a tech card in Wild if one deck becomes so broken that a majority is running them. This has happened with secret mage, Rez priest, etc… but that’s a major judgement call.
Don't let your memes be dreams.
they made an epic to destroy LOCATIONS and guess what...almost zero play...because NOt all classes use LOCATIONS...so that card is FILLER...its USELESS....a waste of time and space......and THERES TONS OF OTHER CARDS that do the same...they are just THERE...doing nothing.
so THEN WHY DA FK U MADE THEM IN THJ FIRST PLACE'??!?!?!!! WWWWWWWWWTFGCDGDSTSDF SDF SDF 2345BSD TR
go face!
Are you doing OK dude?
It's part if their business model and a money and time sink for the players. Lose badly to a specific deck, craft an epic or two, or even a legendary to counter it. It's almost never correct to use tech cards, and the fewer the applications, the worse it becomes. Locations destruction will always be bad. They don't even stop the first activation, and they are a net tempo loss when if they do.
Because the game is rigged, you will never truly know how useful the tech cards are. As a former highly ranked magic player, tech cards were for sideboards. You would only put in a tech card unless a meta was truly dominated by one particular deck or class. A tech card is generally suboptimal against decks other than its intended target. So you do yourself more harm than good by including it. If there is a nuetral card that is in the majority of decks, then you could consider it. But that only happens as a result of poor design, balance and a lack of testing.
SInce hearthstone is a rigged shitshow, discussing strategy is moot. Unless you are talking about gaming the algo.
3nn1: surely you’ve quit playing the game a long time ago once you discovered that the game was “rigged” right?
Don't be silly: that would be way too rational. Sadly, it appears that ship sailed a long time ago.
Then don't play them, dust your Theotar & Rustrot
DJ
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ModeratorIf that were true and something that actually happened to people, we would see a lot less people financially and emotionallydestroyed by gambling addiction (among other addictions, etc).
Sadly though, it's human nature to keep going with something in the vain hope that "this time will be different". It's the same with Hearthstone in a weird sort of way. You know the game is stacked against you, but it's ok because "this time will be different".... :-/
It’s not the same thing, however.
When you’re gambling, you do win sometimes and the stakes are much higher as you’re risking your own money. Without going too much into it, the psychological dynamic isn’t the same. Also, gambling often doesn’t pit you against another player in a duel, that’s another key difference for the reasons discussed below.
In this user’s opinion, everything is rigged. Honestly I’ve read so many of those conspiracies that it’s hard to keep track of it all as they range from “players who pay win automatically” to “matching someone on the same skill level is rigging the game”. It’s hard to get a definite answer as to how the game is rigged exactly as when you provide a counter argument, they suddenly stop responding (until they bring it back up a while later in a different thread).
If everything is rigged, none of your decisions matter, you are “rigged” to win or lose. You could always play your left side card on each turn and you’d win because it rigged and you’re playing against a f2p player. Of course, this whole theory crumbles under a modicum of scrutiny but faith is something which you can’t reason with.
Q. How do you explain that there’s a winner when two f2p players face each other? A. Oh that never happens, based on my nonexistent data, the loser is always whoever doesn’t pay as much as the winner.
Another recurring argument is that the winner was rigged to draw “perfectly”, as if the player agency had *nothing* to do with the victory. Anyway, the list goes on but there’s just no way for putting those absurdities to rest, they just keep popping up. There’s always someone to blame (or something) one key character is always innocent: the proponent of the conspiracy. They never misplay, a defeat on their part is always caused by some unseen algorithm they have no control over. If this isn’t some kind of mental disorder, I don’t know what is.
It’s just people not understanding the difference between statistics and personal anecdotes
Well said, especially the final para. Too many of these guys fail to realize how often their own mistakes (rather than a rigged game) lead to their defeat. A while back one of the guys on my friend list was spectating one of my games. I was playing a deck that was somewhat new to me (can't recall anymore what it was) but which I thought I knew pretty well. After I lost the first game he watched, he proceeded (very politely) to point out 3-4 major mistakes I made, ones I didn't even realize I was making. And I'm a pretty good player (I think).
If these guys spent half as much time reviewing their previous games as they do complaining about secret algorithms and Blizzard patents, they'd start seeing that they're more responsible for their losses than they realize.
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ModeratorProbably worth pointing out here that your comment (that I responded to) was about what a person's reaction to finding out the game was "rigged" should or shouldn't be (in your opinion), and not whether the game is actually rigged or not (a separate issue).
And therefore, my own comment was in response to your supposition, making note of the fact that just because something is rigged (if it was), doesn't stop a person from engaging with it, because (just like any addiction), the human brain will always choose to fool itself into thinking that it's probably NOT rigged, and therefore "this time will be different"...
Why "just like any addiction" though?
The people complaining that Hearthstone is rigged aren't struggling with Hearthstone addiction, they're just salty when they lose and bad at statistics.
Having dealt with actual addictions in the past, continuing to play Hearthstone even though you're convinced without evidence that it's "rigged" against you isn't the same thing.
If it was an addiction, realizing and acknowledging how harmful it was to your life would be an important first step towards quitting and people should be encouraged to do that. Saying "oh well I'm sure there will be no consequences THIS time" isn't helpful.
It's not an addiction. though, so I wouldn't worry about it.
“Probably worth pointing out here that your comment (that I responded to) was about what a person's reaction to finding out the game was "rigged" should or shouldn't be (in your opinion), and not whether the game is actually rigged or not (a separate issue). ”
Isn’t there part of your sentence missing here? Should or shouldn’t determine whether people play or not? Either way, I agree, they are separate issues. I was trying to say that player agency does play into whether a player wins or loses (just like playing poker actually). The thing will the gambling analogy is that “this time will be different” doesn’t work here, with Hearthstone. With gambling, people are winning. So technically, “this time will be different” is not untrue. The odds might not be in your favor, but there’s a probability that you will win. So there’s a risk/reward thrill which lead to an addictive behaviour.
With the “hearthstone is rigged” theory, there would be no point in playing at all since the victor would always whoever invests the more money in Hearthstone. Unless 3nnu1 still plays because he enjoys when the game is “rigged” in his favour and he wins. If that’s the case, you would have a point. I doubt people would enjoy winning a game knowing they have been rigged to win from the onset but who knows, it might be the case.
On a different topic, if he/she is still around, I’d like to make a wager with him/her. Start two new accounts, one in which I’d spend x amount of money in and one where I’d f2p. Then I’d play the same amount of games with both accounts and record everything. In each game, I’d do nothing just, pass my turn every time. In the end, we could compare if paying money determines the winning outcome. We could wage 500$ whether it would or not, payable by PayPal. If I’m wrong, then the game would appear to be rigged, with a predetermined outcome in every game. If both accounts systematically lose, however, it would mean player agency does matter. Then we could take things from there and conduct more experiments: have another hearthstone player who has invested a huge amount of money play a completely random deck against a net deck and keep track of his or her winrate. Would any of the the conspiracy theorists risk that wager? None. Why? Because they know it would prove them wrong and they’d need to backpedal and admit that the game isn’t, as previously put, a rigged shitshow and own up that they have some responsibility whether they lose or not.
I can guarantee that every time, the conspiracy that everything is rigged would be disproven. Every time. That’s what I mean by pushing back against the conspiracy claims. It never happens because those who support the theory always vanish when they’re pressed. I’m writing a lot about this but it’s a let peeve of mine. HS has balancing issues and is driven by weird design imperatives but “the whole thing is rigged” is not fair criticism which should be rightly dismissed.
I’d like to end with a quote from the protagonist:
“But then I thought, if the game is designed for stupid assholes, might as well play like one and see how much fun it is. So I check implock, hmm, only need to craft the legend fucker, will go with that. Hmmm, whose the most annoying hero, perfect, this nemsy bitch is insufferable. So I immediately concede my first 10 games to get good RNG (the game is rigged remember, the same dudes who told you DH is balanced are the ones who claim it isn't). Afterwards I play 10 more, go 9-1 all the while emoting, roping and being the douchiest of bags. And guess what, this is what the game is designed for. ”
Keep in mind that the narrator here plays the game for “stupid assholes”.
Im using a ramp druid that counters this decks....
VIPER for paladin, exclusvly yo destroy that damn immortal weapon -1/2 damage
the robot that destroys priest quest
and the starfish to counter freeze mage, 2/2 undead
and I almost never use them...what a pitY XD
go face!
Can't argue with that!
I think a sideboard could work. But, I think you'd need to do something like have 3 prebuilt sideboard decks. You name them something you can remember like vs. control, vs. combo, vs. aggro.
Then between games you can pick one of your 3 prebuilt decks to choose from. The rope starts burning on your decision as soon as the deck options pop up. The idea is to have almost zero time spent waiting for sideboarding to take place.