Hearthpwn

Actually, when played by an average player (doesn't need to be a good one), Miracle Rogue is by far the best deck in Standard and extremely overpowered.

Meta under 1k legend is 60% rogues, spread the rest.

To make a fair point too, aggro druid has no comeback. If you have any board clear or board silence, they are the easiest rival and a sure win.

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

Quote from Deck_Fiend >>

We actually need the freeze mechanics right now in order to have something that can deal with big minions that can't be dealt with by silencing them. without it, the meta would be even smaller. I think it's a good thing we have freeze decks right now, just like I think Implock is a good thing for the meta... These things keep other things in check. 

This is what I've come to understand with my limited time back in the game and with the current decks. There are a few decks that can play massive minions that nothing can be done about, other than freezing them, so it's something that's needed. 

 This is a fair point. But the answer to that, I think, is not excessive freeze mechanics. It's less insane OP bullshit in the first place.

 that's a fair statement. I have always disliked freeze mage in the past. Now I play Big Spell though with some lighter freezing, I am starting to enjoy it. I am going to play the full 40 card deck as soon as I draw the last 2 epics and finnley. I have hated playing against it in previous years, but now I have naturally drew all the cards for it, I feel I have to play it. Would be a total waste to have draw well for mage for the first time ever, then not actually play it while it's as good as it is. 

I'm also playing lower tier decks as well though, so not constantly playing the most busted stuff. 

Quote from Zangoosed >>

Agreed all the freezing wouldnt be necessary if we didnt have 6 mana Rafaam make 20/20 worth of stats across 5 bodies with Imp Warlock. Or make 5 3/3-ish minions on turn 3-4 with Aggro Druid (also insane). Theres just too much insane OP stuff right now.

The freeze mage pushes out the "fair" decks like Relic DH, Beast Hunter, Miracle Rogue, etc  to a point where you basically have to play one of 3-4 top meta decks in order to have a chance to get some win streaks. And this is an extremely lame game experience.

The ladder is basically play Aggro Druid, play Imp Warlock, or play Mage. 

Like really?

 Warrior is good against Freeze mage. If there are too many of them then try a warrior deck. everything has counters, you just have to figure them out. 

Quote from DatMageDoe >>

Quote from Zangoosed >>

Agreed all the freezing wouldnt be necessary if we didnt have 6 mana Rafaam make 20/20 worth of stats across 5 bodies with Imp Warlock. Or make 5 3/3-ish minions on turn 3-4 with Aggro Druid (also insane). Theres just too much insane OP stuff right now.

The freeze mage pushes out the "fair" decks like Relic DH, Beast Hunter, Miracle Rogue, etc  to a point where you basically have to play one of 3-4 top meta decks in order to have a chance to get some win streaks. And this is an extremely lame game experience.

The ladder is basically play Aggro Druid, play Imp Warlock, or play Mage. 

Like really?

 Odd that you're calling Miracle Rogue a "fair" deck as it's currently one of the strongest decks at higher ranks due to its scam potential. The faster Maestra lists are 50/50 into Mage, and Shark versions suck but Mages are one of the (relatively speaking) better matchups for that deck (its worst are face decks which blitz it down before you can miracle). 

 Yeah miracle rogue has the fastest wins when it goes off. can make the most busted stuff imaginable. their location can make pseudo edwins every other turn (old school edwin) I've always loved the miracle gameplay however, so it's good to see it doing well. it's also not the easiest deck in the world to pilot, so at least there's that.

Quote from JULKER >>

Actually, when played by an average player (doesn't needs to be a good one), Miracle Rogue is by far the best deck in Standard and extremely overpowered.

Meta under 1k legend is 60% rogues, spread the rest.

To make a fair point too, aggro druid has no comeback. If you have any board clear or board silence, they are the easiest rival and a sure win.

 

 yeah miracle rogue is really good. not the easiest deck in the world to play to people who have no major rogue experience though. for rogue players though, it's a good time. 

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

Quote from Deck_Fiend >>

We actually need the freeze mechanics right now in order to have something that can deal with big minions that can't be dealt with by silencing them. without it, the meta would be even smaller. I think it's a good thing we have freeze decks right now, just like I think Implock is a good thing for the meta... These things keep other things in check. 

This is what I've come to understand with my limited time back in the game and with the current decks. There are a few decks that can play massive minions that nothing can be done about, other than freezing them, so it's something that's needed. 

 This is a fair point. But the answer to that, I think, is not excessive freeze mechanics. It's less insane OP bullshit in the first place.

 Exactly. Everytime I read or hear someone say "but we need x to keep y in check" I want to scream at my screen. Maybe just nerf y alongside x? You can't repair a bad design by creating another bad design that counters it.
In an ideal version of HS, I would expect a random arena deck having like a 35-40% chance against the top tier meta decks. In reality, I guess it would probably be more like 10-20%. That gap is far too wide.

Quote from Amaranthus >>

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

Quote from Deck_Fiend >>

We actually need the freeze mechanics right now in order to have something that can deal with big minions that can't be dealt with by silencing them. without it, the meta would be even smaller. I think it's a good thing we have freeze decks right now, just like I think Implock is a good thing for the meta... These things keep other things in check. 

This is what I've come to understand with my limited time back in the game and with the current decks. There are a few decks that can play massive minions that nothing can be done about, other than freezing them, so it's something that's needed. 

 This is a fair point. But the answer to that, I think, is not excessive freeze mechanics. It's less insane OP bullshit in the first place.

 Exactly. Everytime I read or hear someone say "but we need x to keep y in check" I want to scream at my screen. Maybe just nerf y alongside x? You can't repair a bad design by creating another bad design that counters it.
In an ideal version of HS, I would expect a random arena deck having like a 35-40% chance against the top tier meta decks. In reality, I guess it would probably be more like 10-20%. That gap is far too wide.

 Why should a random arena deck stand a chance against a meta deck? That would only be possible without any synergies

Denathrius finally killed my love for this game. That love resisted to a ton of stuff during the last years but I can't stand effects like that... you're enjoying a nice game with a lot of action and suddenly *puff* it's over because you just lost your 30 life points out of nowhere.

There are solutions, sure. You can play aggro ... but what if you don't like aggro style ? When I play an aggro deck I don't enjoy the game so I don't do that.

You can also use disrupt cards, but that's so random... I play a ton of games where my only hope is to eat or steal Denathrius. That's so interesting... so I bore myself slowly to death using Mutanus or the mad duke.

I don't know if the problem is Denathrius himself or the fact that several classes can duplicate his battlecry but I have never needed a nerf so much.

Turn 5 Guff every game is literally WTF, if this won't be nerfed this time the game is officialy dead.

Quote from Amaranthus >>

Quote from Jonesy978 >>

Quote from Deck_Fiend >>

We actually need the freeze mechanics right now in order to have something that can deal with big minions that can't be dealt with by silencing them. without it, the meta would be even smaller. I think it's a good thing we have freeze decks right now, just like I think Implock is a good thing for the meta... These things keep other things in check. 

This is what I've come to understand with my limited time back in the game and with the current decks. There are a few decks that can play massive minions that nothing can be done about, other than freezing them, so it's something that's needed. 

 This is a fair point. But the answer to that, I think, is not excessive freeze mechanics. It's less insane OP bullshit in the first place.

 Exactly. Everytime I read or hear someone say "but we need x to keep y in check" I want to scream at my screen. Maybe just nerf y alongside x? You can't repair a bad design by creating another bad design that counters it.
In an ideal version of HS, I would expect a random arena deck having like a 35-40% chance against the top tier meta decks. In reality, I guess it would probably be more like 10-20%. That gap is far too wide.

 but we don't design the cards, we just play them. so we do need freeze in the game right now. 

why do you think mage and shaman are second after quest hunter right now? because they have freeze, so they can hang. 

Quote from ZagniefMaster >>

Turn 5 Guff every game is literally WTF, if this won't be nerfed this time the game is officialy dead.

 Turn 5 gain a mana crystal draw a card lol