I didn't expect it this strong during the reveal. I read it as +1/+1 for each Imp in control, so if we control 0 Imps, it shouldn't buff 1/1 to any minion without the condition...
For nerf suggestions, I think it should work like that and maybe should change the condition to each Other Imp in control (not counting the one being buffed)
Abuse what ? I just destroyed a pirate rogue and a big priest back to back thanks to the Vile Library, it's ironic.
The 3 decks you mentionned are weak to imp warlock imo, they don't have the early removal to deal with it. Of course if they draw better they will win, nobody said imp warlock has 100% winrate.
Strongest card in pirate rogue is Swordfish, it's 3 mana 6-12 damage over 3 turns. Vile Library is 2 mana up to 14 damage over 2 separate turns.
Strongest card in big priest is I guess Shadow Essence into Neptulon the Tidehunter, generally comes on turn 5, yes it can compete with the pressure of imp warlock but only if the priest can follow up with rez/copy effects, they need to have a lucky draw order, imp warlock doesn't.
Strongest card in celestial druid is Celestial Alignment into OTK next turn, imp warlock can kill the druid before that happens unless druid gets all the ramp and armor cards early.
Also this thread is about the strongest card specifically, not the strongest deck, which I'll admit all 4 decks are close in terms of power.
I didn't expect it this strong during the reveal. I read it as +1/+1 for each Imp in control, so if we control 0 Imps, it shouldn't buff 1/1 to any minion without the condition...
For nerf suggestions, I think it should work like that and maybe should change the condition to each Other Imp in control (not counting the one being buffed)
That's essentially -2/-2 from the current buff, I don't think that's enough of a nerf, it's still up to +5/+5 for 2 mana, twice, so +10/+10. A good old 2 mana nerf will do the trick.
I read what you wrote but I do not agree with it. You Rez priest example stated they need resurrect. That’s how the deck works. Maybe you are right about the pirate rouge and probably you are about the alignment matchup. But - and that’s big - implock is extremely vulnerable to removal/control decks especially warlock ones and it lacks recovery if it loses early board.
I read what you wrote but I do not agree with it. You Rez priest example stated they need resurrect. That’s how the deck works. Maybe you are right about the pirate rouge and probably you are about the alignment matchup. But - and that’s big - implock is extremely vulnerable to removal/control decks especially warlock ones and it lacks recovery if it loses early board.
Ok so if you read what I wrote, what is a better card than vile library ? You still talking about deck matchups..
I think Denathrius is the strongest card in the set (standard, not sure about wild). Every class except Warlock is scrambling to figure out how to best use him. How to tutor him, how to buff him, how to cheat him out, and how to replay him. Druid can do this easily (all these new cards for Druid, turns out none of them are important except Denathrius). Shaman is coming around. Pretty easy for Hunter and Mage. Rogue is trying since their hero card and shadowstep make is possible to double up the Denathrius battlecry. DH has mana discount, so they are on board.
Good thing they gave him out for free because this expansion is all about Big D (and imps to race him).
In Standard yes, in Wild no. There are many stronger standalone cards, for example Zephrys.
Weird choice, Zephrys is highly conditional and reactive, and can only generate classic cards which are fairly weak compared to new cards, especially since you must add the 2 mana from Zephrys. He rarely wins games, often just stops you from losing next turn. But I guess he is in the league of strongest cards in the game.
Who would have known that two Blessing of Kings for two mana would be good? Library and Impending Catastrophe should both be bumped up by one. Draw 5 and get 4 imps is phenomenal for 5 mana, it’s still probably really good at 6 mana.
Whether it's the strongest card or not is impossible to say (philosophically - what does that even mean? Best played win rate? Best mulligan rate?). That said it's definitely too powerful for it's mana cost (imo) and the fact that locations are essentially unable to be stopped makes it feel rubbish to play against.
Blizz has shown a tendancy to make cards with a strong upside in exhange for a downside. This works in theory, but in practice it doesn't work because it's impossible to balance,
1) If you make the upside so large it vastly overcomes the limitation, then many decks play it for the highroll potential (Zephrys for example - played in several non-highlander decks).
2) If you make the limitation too small (e.g. in this case play some imps) then all you've done is print an OP card (this is the situation for Vile Library imo) and was also the problem for "all spell" mage decks and elemental shaman. There was no real deck limitation but the upside for the conditional cards was huge. It was also one of the reasons why I think quest warlock felt super shitty to play against. Those OP cards balanced with a downside, but with the quest the downside was an upside.
3) You make the limitation too great or the benefit too small - no one plays the card. There have been plenty "if you have XXX then do yyy" cards that just don't work. Beast hunter cards spring to mind. Too hard to fullfill the conditions with limited pay-off.
I can see why they print them though - they're thematic and encourage a "style" of deck (imps, elementals, beasts etc.) but they really need to playtest them in the context of card set they're released amongst.
I read what you wrote but I do not agree with it. You Rez priest example stated they need resurrect. That’s how the deck works. Maybe you are right about the pirate rouge and probably you are about the alignment matchup. But - and that’s big - implock is extremely vulnerable to removal/control decks especially warlock ones and it lacks recovery if it loses early board.
Ok so if you read what I wrote, what is a better card than vile library ? You still talking about deck matchups..
I would say the 0 mana dredge spell, mechwarper, dirty rat, twig/sphere, loatheb,…
there are a lot of good cards in wild but there is no best card. There are just the best decks
Your anecdotal evidence means absolutely nothing. The statistics say that Implock is not even close to the best deck in Wild and statistics, not your opinion, are what define the best deck.
Never saw it played, The only Warlock I faced was some Mecacthun ones
Still not Legend in some days maybe I will face more of them but for now it doesn't seems that strong and there is more cancer decks to face like turn 2/3 Neptulon or Pirate Rogue
Yeah it’s pretty strong to play 2 library’s and the 4 imps for a 10/10 buff on turn 4/5.
I’d say give it three charges and make it cost 3.
Or
honestly change all the locations to have “summoning sickness” for the turn you play it. thematically its like your walking to the room to accuse the murderer. Takes a turn getting there.
I feel like locations should have been a board based change, and you can’t move to a new location for 1 set of turns after being played… and have them be global buffs or nerfs for up too 3 turns . Would have added more depth then the current locations.
Just cut the base 1-1 buff from library and bump catastrophe by 1 mana, reassess after a while. This kind of one-dimensional deck is really easy to overnerf and wipe out.
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Change my mind. What do the statistics say ? Do we know the played winrate and drawn winrate yet ?
I'll be honest I didn't see this coming. I don't think many people realised in the reveal season that we could have a whole deck made of imps.
100% not the strongest deck in Wild when Pirate Rogue, Big Priest, Alignment Druid just abuse it. It may be in standard but I don’t play standard.
I didn't expect it this strong during the reveal. I read it as +1/+1 for each Imp in control, so if we control 0 Imps, it shouldn't buff 1/1 to any minion without the condition...
For nerf suggestions, I think it should work like that and maybe should change the condition to each Other Imp in control (not counting the one being buffed)
Abuse what ? I just destroyed a pirate rogue and a big priest back to back thanks to the Vile Library, it's ironic.
The 3 decks you mentionned are weak to imp warlock imo, they don't have the early removal to deal with it. Of course if they draw better they will win, nobody said imp warlock has 100% winrate.
Strongest card in pirate rogue is Swordfish, it's 3 mana 6-12 damage over 3 turns. Vile Library is 2 mana up to 14 damage over 2 separate turns.
Strongest card in big priest is I guess Shadow Essence into Neptulon the Tidehunter, generally comes on turn 5, yes it can compete with the pressure of imp warlock but only if the priest can follow up with rez/copy effects, they need to have a lucky draw order, imp warlock doesn't.
Strongest card in celestial druid is Celestial Alignment into OTK next turn, imp warlock can kill the druid before that happens unless druid gets all the ramp and armor cards early.
Also this thread is about the strongest card specifically, not the strongest deck, which I'll admit all 4 decks are close in terms of power.
That's essentially -2/-2 from the current buff, I don't think that's enough of a nerf, it's still up to +5/+5 for 2 mana, twice, so +10/+10. A good old 2 mana nerf will do the trick.
Imps are good but far far away from the best wild deck…
Learn to read.
I read what you wrote but I do not agree with it. You Rez priest example stated they need resurrect. That’s how the deck works. Maybe you are right about the pirate rouge and probably you are about the alignment matchup. But - and that’s big - implock is extremely vulnerable to removal/control decks especially warlock ones and it lacks recovery if it loses early board.
Ok so if you read what I wrote, what is a better card than vile library ? You still talking about deck matchups..
Vile library is really strong.
I think Denathrius is the strongest card in the set (standard, not sure about wild). Every class except Warlock is scrambling to figure out how to best use him. How to tutor him, how to buff him, how to cheat him out, and how to replay him. Druid can do this easily (all these new cards for Druid, turns out none of them are important except Denathrius). Shaman is coming around. Pretty easy for Hunter and Mage. Rogue is trying since their hero card and shadowstep make is possible to double up the Denathrius battlecry. DH has mana discount, so they are on board.
Good thing they gave him out for free because this expansion is all about Big D (and imps to race him).
In Standard yes, in Wild no. There are many stronger standalone cards, for example Zephrys.
Weird choice, Zephrys is highly conditional and reactive, and can only generate classic cards which are fairly weak compared to new cards, especially since you must add the 2 mana from Zephrys. He rarely wins games, often just stops you from losing next turn. But I guess he is in the league of strongest cards in the game.
Who would have known that two Blessing of Kings for two mana would be good? Library and Impending Catastrophe should both be bumped up by one. Draw 5 and get 4 imps is phenomenal for 5 mana, it’s still probably really good at 6 mana.
Team 5 card design and balance at it's finest.
Whether it's the strongest card or not is impossible to say (philosophically - what does that even mean? Best played win rate? Best mulligan rate?). That said it's definitely too powerful for it's mana cost (imo) and the fact that locations are essentially unable to be stopped makes it feel rubbish to play against.
Blizz has shown a tendancy to make cards with a strong upside in exhange for a downside. This works in theory, but in practice it doesn't work because it's impossible to balance,
1) If you make the upside so large it vastly overcomes the limitation, then many decks play it for the highroll potential (Zephrys for example - played in several non-highlander decks).
2) If you make the limitation too small (e.g. in this case play some imps) then all you've done is print an OP card (this is the situation for Vile Library imo) and was also the problem for "all spell" mage decks and elemental shaman. There was no real deck limitation but the upside for the conditional cards was huge. It was also one of the reasons why I think quest warlock felt super shitty to play against. Those OP cards balanced with a downside, but with the quest the downside was an upside.
3) You make the limitation too great or the benefit too small - no one plays the card. There have been plenty "if you have XXX then do yyy" cards that just don't work. Beast hunter cards spring to mind. Too hard to fullfill the conditions with limited pay-off.
I can see why they print them though - they're thematic and encourage a "style" of deck (imps, elementals, beasts etc.) but they really need to playtest them in the context of card set they're released amongst.
I would say the 0 mana dredge spell, mechwarper, dirty rat, twig/sphere, loatheb,…
there are a lot of good cards in wild but there is no best card. There are just the best decks
Your anecdotal evidence means absolutely nothing. The statistics say that Implock is not even close to the best deck in Wild and statistics, not your opinion, are what define the best deck.
Never saw it played, The only Warlock I faced was some Mecacthun ones
Still not Legend in some days maybe I will face more of them but for now it doesn't seems that strong and there is more cancer decks to face like turn 2/3 Neptulon or Pirate Rogue
Yeah it’s pretty strong to play 2 library’s and the 4 imps for a 10/10 buff on turn 4/5.
I’d say give it three charges and make it cost 3.
Or
honestly change all the locations to have “summoning sickness” for the turn you play it. thematically its like your walking to the room to accuse the murderer. Takes a turn getting there.
I feel like locations should have been a board based change, and you can’t move to a new location for 1 set of turns after being played… and have them be global buffs or nerfs for up too 3 turns . Would have added more depth then the current locations.
Just cut the base 1-1 buff from library and bump catastrophe by 1 mana, reassess after a while. This kind of one-dimensional deck is really easy to overnerf and wipe out.