First off, I dont think that the hero power is (objectively) OP. 1 mana for 1 face based damage is perfectly in line with the other classes hero powers.
Where I think the design goes wrong is that the 1 mana cost makes it really flexible to weave into other turns - particularly answering 1 mana/1 health drops on turn one. No other class can do this. You also hardly ever float a mana making the class very mana efficient.
Add to this that they've printed a large number of cards which synergise very well (too well?) with your hero attacking and snowball very quickly and you start to see why it might be problematic. Battleworn Vanguard for example is basically 4/4 in stats for 3 mana - that's good in anyones book. If you cant answer it immediatly the board is full by turn 4. For me this is the crux of the issue with DH and why it feels so bad to play against (that and the fact they keep giving the class more draw unstopable face damage).
Now imagine If the hero power was 2 mana/2 damage (to keep it consistent with other classes). Things would look very different - no minion clear on turn 1, a 2 mana minion drop on turn 2 that you have to hope survives to turn 3 to activate. If you then used your hero power to attack you've only got 1 mana left which means you cant develop a good board. If you wanted to garuantee the proc it's a 4 mana play. Suddenly things look balanced!
All that said - the biggest problem at the moment is Dreadprison Glaive and the interaction with Multi-Strike. Clear a minion and get a windfury face attack - excellent!
The hero power to 2 would solve lot of issues and make the class less overpowered.
As someone else stated, at 1 DH never has floating mana. Also tempo wise, they can immediately answer 1hp minions on turn 1 without having to use the coin.
There are many cards that benefit from DH attacking: the 2drop that summons minions on 3, Pufferfist + hero power on 4... Delay it by a turn and suddenly DH is less threatening, without necessarily being a garbage class.
Also, it would be perfectly in line with other hero powers. Not strictly better or worse than any other
HP is not the issue, it is that the class is overtune with many strong cards existing at once.. the main culprit is Multi-Strike, this shouldn't allow to hit face tbh..
yes, multi strike is very op and should be adjusted in some way
The hero power to 2 would solve lot of issues and make the class less overpowered.
As someone else stated, at 1 DH never has floating mana. Also tempo wise, they can immediately answer 1hp minions on turn 1 without having to use the coin.
So, assuming your dreams come true and DH hero power becomes 2 mana, would it also stay one damage? Or would it be 2 damage, and become a better Mage hero power? If not, then it becomes a worse Rogue hero power or worse Druid hero power.
I'm genuinely curious because there is a lot of discussion about changing what the power costs but no considerations about what the power actually does.
Whenever a class has overperforming decks, it's rubs people the wrong way, but the answer isn't to change the class wholesale, but address to the cards that are overperforming. For the Alterac expansion, DH was middling at best, but now it's good - that's how expansions work. Let's try and keep some perspective please.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Speculation is foolish when the tools of certainty are available." —Cinna, Vedalken Consul
As I stated in the first post I would put it at 2 it would be situationally better than mage (1 more dmg, but I lose health if I attack a minion).
Sometimes better than hunter (I can attack minions), but I can't go face if he has taunt.
I know they won't do it at this point. And true, this expansion put DH on top again (thanks multistrike, Pufferfist and Naga package), but you can't deny DH is the class (behind warlock) that relies the most on his HP
What I don't understand is why there are times a DH can attack multiple times, for instance they attack which uses the last charge of a weapon and then they can attack again. I would think they should only attack multiple times if there is a weapon or spell that explicitly states they can attack multiple times.
2 mana hero power will surely suck with the DH hero card.
Just be glad it buffs your weapon compared to rogue useless hero power which destroys your current weapon.
Rogue hp is useless? Lol god this forum is full of bronze rats. Rogues hp is historically the second best in the game after warlock.
Wow! you're right. Those historically top tier hero powers are really pulling a lot of work to put Rogue and Warlock in tier one this meta.
A class being bad has nothing to do with the strength of their hero power. Warlocks have the best hero power in the game, no one argues this. They are also bottom tier.
What a lame suggestion. Demon hunter having a 1 cost hero power is more interesting and definitely not game breaking. Having all hero powers cost the same amount is design limiting.
If power level is too high, it's because of the cards they have available. The truth is that demon hunter cards aren't even very overpowered. There just typically aren't as many board clears and heals during the first expansion of the year. Each expansion will decrease the effectiveness of the current demon hunter deck because the current version is vulnerable to decks will cheap heals and clears but many of those cards rotated and have not been replaced.
Wow! you're right. Those historically top tier hero powers are really pulling a lot of work to put Rogue and Warlock in tier one this meta.
A class being bad has nothing to do with the strength of their hero power. Warlocks have the best hero power in the game, no one argues this. They are also bottom tier.
First off, I dont think that the hero power is (objectively) OP. 1 mana for 1 face based damage is perfectly in line with the other classes hero powers.
Where I think the design goes wrong is that the 1 mana cost makes it really flexible to weave into other turns - particularly answering 1 mana/1 health drops on turn one. No other class can do this. You also hardly ever float a mana making the class very mana efficient.
Add to this that they've printed a large number of cards which synergise very well (too well?) with your hero attacking and snowball very quickly and you start to see why it might be problematic. Battleworn Vanguard for example is basically 4/4 in stats for 3 mana - that's good in anyones book. If you cant answer it immediatly the board is full by turn 4. For me this is the crux of the issue with DH and why it feels so bad to play against (that and the fact they keep giving the class more draw unstopable face damage).
Now imagine If the hero power was 2 mana/2 damage (to keep it consistent with other classes). Things would look very different - no minion clear on turn 1, a 2 mana minion drop on turn 2 that you have to hope survives to turn 3 to activate. If you then used your hero power to attack you've only got 1 mana left which means you cant develop a good board. If you wanted to garuantee the proc it's a 4 mana play. Suddenly things look balanced!
All that said - the biggest problem at the moment is Dreadprison Glaive and the interaction with Multi-Strike. Clear a minion and get a windfury face attack - excellent!
Spot on, perfect explanation of the problem! (Have you ever thought about doing an analysis of other game aspects too? :D ). Why they are incompetent at solving it is because they only want fast games. There is no room for anything else in the ladder game play, be it standard or wild. Curious how the arena is gonna fare after the changes. Too bad the core game is not like that anymore...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
First off, I dont think that the hero power is (objectively) OP. 1 mana for 1 face based damage is perfectly in line with the other classes hero powers.
Where I think the design goes wrong is that the 1 mana cost makes it really flexible to weave into other turns - particularly answering 1 mana/1 health drops on turn one. No other class can do this. You also hardly ever float a mana making the class very mana efficient.
Add to this that they've printed a large number of cards which synergise very well (too well?) with your hero attacking and snowball very quickly and you start to see why it might be problematic. Battleworn Vanguard for example is basically 4/4 in stats for 3 mana - that's good in anyones book. If you cant answer it immediatly the board is full by turn 4. For me this is the crux of the issue with DH and why it feels so bad to play against (that and the fact they keep giving the class more draw unstopable face damage).
Now imagine If the hero power was 2 mana/2 damage (to keep it consistent with other classes). Things would look very different - no minion clear on turn 1, a 2 mana minion drop on turn 2 that you have to hope survives to turn 3 to activate. If you then used your hero power to attack you've only got 1 mana left which means you cant develop a good board. If you wanted to garuantee the proc it's a 4 mana play. Suddenly things look balanced!
All that said - the biggest problem at the moment is Dreadprison Glaive and the interaction with Multi-Strike. Clear a minion and get a windfury face attack - excellent!
I’m not sure it’s the hero power, but you are spot on with everything else.
im sure you’ve heard the term “solitaire stone”.
The game gets stale really fast after legend.
The hero power to 2 would solve lot of issues and make the class less overpowered.
As someone else stated, at 1 DH never has floating mana. Also tempo wise, they can immediately answer 1hp minions on turn 1 without having to use the coin.
There are many cards that benefit from DH attacking: the 2drop that summons minions on 3, Pufferfist + hero power on 4... Delay it by a turn and suddenly DH is less threatening, without necessarily being a garbage class.
Also, it would be perfectly in line with other hero powers. Not strictly better or worse than any other
yes, multi strike is very op and should be adjusted in some way
So, assuming your dreams come true and DH hero power becomes 2 mana, would it also stay one damage? Or would it be 2 damage, and become a better Mage hero power? If not, then it becomes a worse Rogue hero power or worse Druid hero power.
I'm genuinely curious because there is a lot of discussion about changing what the power costs but no considerations about what the power actually does.
Whenever a class has overperforming decks, it's rubs people the wrong way, but the answer isn't to change the class wholesale, but address to the cards that are overperforming. For the Alterac expansion, DH was middling at best, but now it's good - that's how expansions work. Let's try and keep some perspective please.
"Speculation is foolish when the tools of certainty are available." —Cinna, Vedalken Consul
As I stated in the first post I would put it at 2 it would be situationally better than mage (1 more dmg, but I lose health if I attack a minion).
Sometimes better than hunter (I can attack minions), but I can't go face if he has taunt.
I know they won't do it at this point. And true, this expansion put DH on top again (thanks multistrike, Pufferfist and Naga package), but you can't deny DH is the class (behind warlock) that relies the most on his HP
What I don't understand is why there are times a DH can attack multiple times, for instance they attack which uses the last charge of a weapon and then they can attack again. I would think they should only attack multiple times if there is a weapon or spell that explicitly states they can attack multiple times.
A class being bad has nothing to do with the strength of their hero power. Warlocks have the best hero power in the game, no one argues this. They are also bottom tier.
What was this comment hoping to achieve lol.
What a lame suggestion. Demon hunter having a 1 cost hero power is more interesting and definitely not game breaking. Having all hero powers cost the same amount is design limiting.
If power level is too high, it's because of the cards they have available. The truth is that demon hunter cards aren't even very overpowered. There just typically aren't as many board clears and heals during the first expansion of the year. Each expansion will decrease the effectiveness of the current demon hunter deck because the current version is vulnerable to decks will cheap heals and clears but many of those cards rotated and have not been replaced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
Spot on, perfect explanation of the problem! (Have you ever thought about doing an analysis of other game aspects too? :D ). Why they are incompetent at solving it is because they only want fast games. There is no room for anything else in the ladder game play, be it standard or wild. Curious how the arena is gonna fare after the changes. Too bad the core game is not like that anymore...