Each expansion, the bonus card for paying players is P2W (having a decent deck for diam5+, not even mentioning wild):
A deck is performing slightly better with Korrak than without.
A deck is performing slightly better with Sir Finley than without.
etc...
Blizzard advertises that paying is "only comestics". it is not. yep i dont have Finley and im not paying for him. not supporting P2W in any game.
This trend needs to stop. no bonus cards. cosmetics. ideally on top: cant buy packs, cant buy legendaries and HS should be living on cosmetics and donations.
so f2p players should disenchant 90% of their collection, which they use to basically ... you know... play the game ? being restricted to standard, to have a meta card.
I don't see a problem with it. So there's some cosmetics that are also widely played? Pumping out cosmetics is a tried and true way to make money off of a game. Also, the wide play rate on cards like Finley and Drek (which was given away free in a gold version to everyone who played the previous expansion) makes it super easy for FTP players to craft them and to play a wide variety of decks. They're obvious crafts which will serve you well throughout their time in Standard.
So players who pay get a legendary card, which f2p players are also allowed to craft
Players who pay might buy a bundle that gives them 2 random legendaries + a few packs from which they might open another legendary or 2. Or just straight up buy 100 packs and open ~5 legendaries there.
What is your problem with that? There are no cards that are hidden behind a payroll. Every usable card in the game can be opened in a pack or crafted for dust, whether you are a paying player or not. Since you choose not to pay you just need to spend more time grinding gold, or otherwise accept that you will not be able to craft any deck/card you might want. But that has always been the case, the Finley example is not really relevant.
quest warrior ? murloc warlock ? mech mage ? beast druid ? face hunter ? which any of them are better with finley. not me who's saying that, but hsreplay.
I don't think that getting 1 specific legendary is unfair compared to the 2 random legends you get in the 20€ bundle. I don't recall the battle pass being advertised as cosmetic only either. I saw a XP bonus and diamond card in the front at least. The battle pass is ultimately 1500-3000 for most players, a legendary and some bling for 20€/$. Next to it was a bundle with 2000 gold worth of packs and 2 legendary cards for 20€/$. The pass has then always had a rather solid neutral card to not exclude certain players. Finley is probably the best of them at this point, but I don't think that it was planned that Finley is good and Korrak bad.
But I suppose that the BP is just an example of the problem, since you are criticizing all kinds of card purchase. In some way I agree and in some way I wish that we could have access to all cards while still feeling rewarded during the game, while still being able to compensate for a busy month somehow to keep up. I have no idea how such a system should work. I don't think that donations will cut it, especially not after the PR shit show blizzard has been through over the years. I fear that the only realistic alternative would be a subscription based economy and then we'll all have to pay.
World of Warships, interesting because you pay to get experience faster and unlock stuff faster (just like tavern pass), but it does not provide an edge at all in combat
while living on donations, lichess devs have come up with much more lines of code, game modes, overal features and much less bugs than HS will ever do. and they dont receive a payslip .
Now if you look at open source game projects, there are tons of examples.
reward experience with cosmetics and card unlock but for everybody ? yes.
my point exactly. finley played WR is positive , in all classes.
Finley main meta deck is Control warrior - which is an expensive deck by nature (many Legendary/Epic cards) regardless.
however I do think that HS is too expensive, they have to lower the pay wall otherwise the game will decline, I believe that the main reason that Battlegrounds is a very popular mode (at least according to streamers viewers) is because its almost free compared to HS.
But these are not games focused on collecting things are they? I haven't played warships, but if the "stuff" doesn't allow you to actually do anything in the game, but only displays game progression isn't the point gone? I don't think that you need finley or any other diamond card to win, but sure you need gold/dust/packs to try out different things. If warships unlocks a different comp it's pretty much the same right?
Anyway, I believe that it's the rewards and "free stuff" that keeps a lot of people hooked. Playing for hours every day to "save 80$" is enough for those people who insist on not paying for what they can grind for free. One day they get a job and chi-ching! If rewards come too fast they'll reduce the value of the grind and if they come too slow while not being buyable you'll lose the players with jobs.
Would it be cool if HS became an open source game? Sure! but we're talking about a massive company with official tournaments and a need for reliable revenues. I would also love a shift towards being a cheap/free game instead of this whalefest, but I'm done whishing for it :)
Bro, the goal of any company is to maximise profits, we don’t live in an idealistic dream world where everyone can have everything they want for free. If you can pay $60 for a game on steam and play it for 30 hours, you can spend the same amount on HS if it fancies you. However, strongly agree that the game is way too expensive - if prices were 20-30% lower, maybe more players would start buying stuff. As for the tabern pass, it’s one of the better deals and your desire to remove part of the rewards just because you want them for free would hurt paying players. Even if the Pass didn’t exist, you could still pay for packs to get the cards, it would just cost more.
The paywall is the reality for everything now, and I don’t see a problem with it. You play a game you like, you pay to support it and get more stuff to play. It’s not like golden legendaries have +1/+1 like many similar mobile games do. Nevertheless, HS is still very expensive and I’d like to see a price cut. I’m no company manager, though.
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Each expansion, the bonus card for paying players is P2W (having a decent deck for diam5+, not even mentioning wild):
A deck is performing slightly better with Korrak than without.
A deck is performing slightly better with Sir Finley than without.
etc...
Blizzard advertises that paying is "only comestics". it is not. yep i dont have Finley and im not paying for him. not supporting P2W in any game.
This trend needs to stop. no bonus cards. cosmetics. ideally on top: cant buy packs, cant buy legendaries and HS should be living on cosmetics and donations.
"Woow..."
Korrak is a Bad Card, finley is good, but they are cosmetics since you can open them / craft them in non Diamond
Yeah, I don't get it. There are no bonus cards only available on the rewards track or anywhere else. Spend dust on them if you want to be f2p.
so f2p players should disenchant 90% of their collection, which they use to basically ... you know... play the game ? being restricted to standard, to have a meta card.
ok.
pay2dust
"Woow..."
I don't see a problem with it. So there's some cosmetics that are also widely played? Pumping out cosmetics is a tried and true way to make money off of a game. Also, the wide play rate on cards like Finley and Drek (which was given away free in a gold version to everyone who played the previous expansion) makes it super easy for FTP players to craft them and to play a wide variety of decks. They're obvious crafts which will serve you well throughout their time in Standard.
this post would not exist if Finley was given for free. he s not.
sure he's good craft. so as Mr Smite. and so as ... etc. now 1600 dust as f2p is quite a paywall.
just imagine paying member had drekthar and you had not. sure you could craft him. still fair ? nope
ability to buy diamond version of card is comestic. ability to buy legendary meta cards is not cosmetic. its p2w.
"Woow..."
p2w means you can't be as good if you don't pay. you can it just might require more time. that's not p2w. paying just speeds up your progresion.
my point exactly. finley played WR is positive , in all classes.
"Woow..."
So players who pay get a legendary card, which f2p players are also allowed to craft
Players who pay might buy a bundle that gives them 2 random legendaries + a few packs from which they might open another legendary or 2. Or just straight up buy 100 packs and open ~5 legendaries there.
What is your problem with that? There are no cards that are hidden behind a payroll. Every usable card in the game can be opened in a pack or crafted for dust, whether you are a paying player or not. Since you choose not to pay you just need to spend more time grinding gold, or otherwise accept that you will not be able to craft any deck/card you might want. But that has always been the case, the Finley example is not really relevant.
its not because a situation "always been the case" thats its fair mate.
at 1600 dust there are tons of cards behind a paywall (edited: thx)
"Woow..."
just play more. i can get all the cards i want im f2p.
The word you're looking for is "paywall".
Finley is used in control warrior. You know you can play any of the other 10 meta decks that don't run finley? You're welcomed.
yeah which one ?
quest warrior ? murloc warlock ? mech mage ? beast druid ? face hunter ? which any of them are better with finley. not me who's saying that, but hsreplay.
"Woow..."
thank you jennie-bot , im glad you stopped advertising scams to support anti-P2W
"Woow..."
I don't think that getting 1 specific legendary is unfair compared to the 2 random legends you get in the 20€ bundle. I don't recall the battle pass being advertised as cosmetic only either. I saw a XP bonus and diamond card in the front at least. The battle pass is ultimately 1500-3000 for most players, a legendary and some bling for 20€/$. Next to it was a bundle with 2000 gold worth of packs and 2 legendary cards for 20€/$. The pass has then always had a rather solid neutral card to not exclude certain players. Finley is probably the best of them at this point, but I don't think that it was planned that Finley is good and Korrak bad.
But I suppose that the BP is just an example of the problem, since you are criticizing all kinds of card purchase. In some way I agree and in some way I wish that we could have access to all cards while still feeling rewarded during the game, while still being able to compensate for a busy month somehow to keep up. I have no idea how such a system should work. I don't think that donations will cut it, especially not after the PR shit show blizzard has been through over the years. I fear that the only realistic alternative would be a subscription based economy and then we'll all have to pay.
It does work. I'll give you notable examples:
while living on donations, lichess devs have come up with much more lines of code, game modes, overal features and much less bugs than HS will ever do. and they dont receive a payslip .
Now if you look at open source game projects, there are tons of examples.
reward experience with cosmetics and card unlock but for everybody ? yes.
"Woow..."
Finley main meta deck is Control warrior - which is an expensive deck by nature (many Legendary/Epic cards) regardless.
however I do think that HS is too expensive, they have to lower the pay wall otherwise the game will decline,
I believe that the main reason that Battlegrounds is a very popular mode (at least according to streamers viewers)
is because its almost free compared to HS.
But these are not games focused on collecting things are they? I haven't played warships, but if the "stuff" doesn't allow you to actually do anything in the game, but only displays game progression isn't the point gone? I don't think that you need finley or any other diamond card to win, but sure you need gold/dust/packs to try out different things. If warships unlocks a different comp it's pretty much the same right?
Anyway, I believe that it's the rewards and "free stuff" that keeps a lot of people hooked. Playing for hours every day to "save 80$" is enough for those people who insist on not paying for what they can grind for free. One day they get a job and chi-ching! If rewards come too fast they'll reduce the value of the grind and if they come too slow while not being buyable you'll lose the players with jobs.
Would it be cool if HS became an open source game? Sure! but we're talking about a massive company with official tournaments and a need for reliable revenues. I would also love a shift towards being a cheap/free game instead of this whalefest, but I'm done whishing for it :)
Bro, the goal of any company is to maximise profits, we don’t live in an idealistic dream world where everyone can have everything they want for free. If you can pay $60 for a game on steam and play it for 30 hours, you can spend the same amount on HS if it fancies you. However, strongly agree that the game is way too expensive - if prices were 20-30% lower, maybe more players would start buying stuff.
As for the tabern pass, it’s one of the better deals and your desire to remove part of the rewards just because you want them for free would hurt paying players. Even if the Pass didn’t exist, you could still pay for packs to get the cards, it would just cost more.
The paywall is the reality for everything now, and I don’t see a problem with it. You play a game you like, you pay to support it and get more stuff to play. It’s not like golden legendaries have +1/+1 like many similar mobile games do. Nevertheless, HS is still very expensive and I’d like to see a price cut. I’m no company manager, though.