i find it odd that people are suggesting nerfs to support cards to the quests rather than the absurdly broken quests themselves
Mainly because the quests aren't inherently broken powerful. Quest Hunter in Wild would be unplayable if not for being supported by the Odd-archetype and having Rapid Fire and Aimed Shot being odd cards. How do we know this? Because it already is unplayable in Standard.
- Apprentice effect to not reduce mana cost lower than 1 is the best nerf.. Changing its stats or cost doesn't do anything long-term because they will print more mana reduction costs in the future anyway.
- Warrior quest should be banned in Wild as they will print more powerful Pirate cards in the future; it is for long-term health sake of Wild mode. Banning is good because Warrior quest is no longer that strong in Standard, so they most likely wouldn't nerf any Pirate cards (except for that Defias Cannoneer)
- Hunter quest: same deal as Warrior quest. Banning them is the easiest, simplest solution so they won't have to ever worry about Wild balance so often... It seems like they only have time for Wild balances once or twice a year anyway...
I've mentioned this in previous posts, and was curious as to other's thoughts on it: Would it be fair that once cards move into Wild (or, inversely, out of Standard) that any card changes wouldn't be subject to dust refunds? If that high-bar was removed, and they could more fluidly make changes that only affected the Wild biome, which we'd all agree only matters to those of us that enjoy Wild?
I, for one, would be totally okay with this. There's no real reason that cards that aren't current should have dust refunds attached to them, potentially preventing any changes because of significant economy issues for the game as a whole.
- Apprentice effect to not reduce mana cost lower than 1 is the best nerf.. Changing its stats or cost doesn't do anything long-term because they will print more mana reduction costs in the future anyway.
- Warrior quest should be banned in Wild as they will print more powerful Pirate cards in the future; it is for long-term health sake of Wild mode. Banning is good because Warrior quest is no longer that strong in Standard, so they most likely wouldn't nerf any Pirate cards (except for that Defias Cannoneer)
- Hunter quest: same deal as Warrior quest. Banning them is the easiest, simplest solution so they won't have to ever worry about Wild balance so often... It seems like they only have time for Wild balances once or twice a year anyway...
I've mentioned this in previous posts, and was curious as to other's thoughts on it: Would it be fair that once cards move into Wild (or, inversely, out of Standard) that any card changes wouldn't be subject to dust refunds? If that high-bar was removed, and they could more fluidly make changes that only affected the Wild biome, which we'd all agree only matters to those of us that enjoy Wild?
I, for one, would be totally okay with this. There's no real reason that cards that aren't current should have dust refunds attached to them, potentially preventing any changes because of significant economy issues for the game as a whole.
No, it wouldn't be fair. Also, dust refunds have nothing to do with whether Blizzard decides to nerf cards in standard or wild. Oh, and all cards are "current" in wild.
this is more of a wishlist for standard than expectations but whatever:
Rogue - Wildpaw Gnoll stat decrease, cost increase, or both. Scabbs hero card to 8 mana, summons two 3/2s with stealth instead of 4/2s. Cloak of Shadows to 4 mana. Garrote to 3 wouldn’t be a bad change either.
Mage - ignite to 3, Mozaki to 7?? Honestly the card could be 10 mana for all i care. It needs to go.
Warrior - defias cannonner to 4, or changing the effect to dealing 2 damage to 1 enemy/1 damage to 2 enemies.
Druid - Guff hero card to 6, increase your mana cap to 15 instead of 20. solar/lunar eclipse to 3.
Paladin - Cariel hero card to 8.
hunter - dog biscuit to 3 or give a minion +2/+2.
priest - Undying Disciple to 2/7.
shaman - charged call to 4.
DH - Kurtrus to 7 or Expendable performers to 8. warlock - tamsin hero card to 7.
i find it odd that people are suggesting nerfs to support cards to the quests rather than the absurdly broken quests themselves
Mainly because the quests aren't inherently broken powerful. Quest Hunter in Wild would be unplayable if not for being supported by the Odd-archetype and having Rapid Fire and Aimed Shot being odd cards. How do we know this? Because it already is unplayable in Standard.
Absolutely wrong. I got to legend with regular quest hunter in wild and with very few loses, all the way from bronze with 6 star bonus only. I actually love the flexibility of 2-cost damage spells and running cards like Dragonsbane. Around 90% winrate vs Questline warrior, also beats Odd hunters and pirate rogues (although it is close)
Lets say all mentioned cards are nerfed in Wild - you know what happens next? Everyone starts playing even lock...
That's fine... Reno Priest, Secret Mage, Even Shaman, Odd Warrior, RenoLock, Quest Mage, Quest Rogue, etc.... are more welcomed to be back than Odd Hunter/Pirate Warrior/Ignite Mage on any day..
i find it odd that people are suggesting nerfs to support cards to the quests rather than the absurdly broken quests themselves
Mainly because the quests aren't inherently broken powerful. Quest Hunter in Wild would be unplayable if not for being supported by the Odd-archetype and having Rapid Fire and Aimed Shot being odd cards. How do we know this? Because it already is unplayable in Standard.
Absolutely wrong. I got to legend with regular quest hunter in wild and with very few loses, all the way from bronze with 6 star bonus only. I actually love the flexibility of 2-cost damage spells and running cards like Dragonsbane. Around 90% winrate vs Questline warrior, also beats Odd hunters and pirate rogues (although it is close)
I don't doubt that it's possible that you achieved legend in wild with a non odd iteration of quest hunter, but it shouldn't be winning 90 percent of its matches against pwarr and it certainly shouldn't beat odd hunter. Pwarr is fairly evenly matched with odd hunter (although slightly unfavored), and odd quest hunter is quite simply more powerful than non-odd quest hunter. Additional flexibility is nice but fairly superfluous when the primary objective of the archetype is simply to complete the quest and go face, which odd hunter can easily do before turn 5. And once the quest is completed, that additional 1 damage from odd hp is invaluable for the purpose of killing one's opponent before they can kill you and doing so in a more efficient manner (relative to the normal 2 damage hp) that requires less cards to do so at that. It is also worth noting that the odd hp is superior for removal. Ultimately the benefits of playing odd far outweigh the relatively gratuitous advantages that flexibility provides for non-odd imo, particularly in a meta where the vast majority of archetypes are more than capable of finding lethal by turn 5 or 6.
- Apprentice effect to not reduce mana cost lower than 1 is the best nerf.. Changing its stats or cost doesn't do anything long-term because they will print more mana reduction costs in the future anyway.
- Warrior quest should be banned in Wild as they will print more powerful Pirate cards in the future; it is for long-term health sake of Wild mode. Banning is good because Warrior quest is no longer that strong in Standard, so they most likely wouldn't nerf any Pirate cards (except for that Defias Cannoneer)
- Hunter quest: same deal as Warrior quest. Banning them is the easiest, simplest solution so they won't have to ever worry about Wild balance so often... It seems like they only have time for Wild balances once or twice a year anyway...
I've mentioned this in previous posts, and was curious as to other's thoughts on it: Would it be fair that once cards move into Wild (or, inversely, out of Standard) that any card changes wouldn't be subject to dust refunds? If that high-bar was removed, and they could more fluidly make changes that only affected the Wild biome, which we'd all agree only matters to those of us that enjoy Wild?
I, for one, would be totally okay with this. There's no real reason that cards that aren't current should have dust refunds attached to them, potentially preventing any changes because of significant economy issues for the game as a whole.
No, it wouldn't be fair. Also, dust refunds have nothing to do with whether Blizzard decides to nerf cards in standard or wild. Oh, and all cards are "current" in wild.
I laid it out as a binary, because from Blizzard's standpoint as a business, I'm not convinced it's not dust related:
A: Would you rather have Wild remain as it is with degenerate decks that, if the Wild playerbase voted upon it, would likely see changes BUT those changes may not be entertained by Blizzard because of dust refunds for ancient cards going against corporate bottom lines.
B: Or would you rather forgo the dust refunds for those same cards, at the opportunity for more substantial changes to encourage a more robust and interesting Wild experience.
I realize I'm approaching a topic that is entirely subjective. Terms like "degenerate, robust and interesting" are loaded terms, but look past my adjectives if able. Also, this is all coming from a guy who has nearly every Wild card! If there are changes, chances are that I'd benefit dust-wise. But I'd forgo that in a heartbeat for some quality of life adjustments.
Or let me put it this way: Were you honestly happy with the era of Raza Priest, and then Secret Mage for 3 years, then Demon Seed Warlock, and now Pirate Warrior, Odd Hunter and Infinite Ignite Mage? And those last three, is that what you want for the next 2 years or more?
Don't play warrior but I think they should buff some non-pirate related cards so 90% of war players don't feel they need to play pirate quest (it's a low skill deck, pretty much plays itself). In standard/wild/duels, it's almost a guarantee pirate deck. That being said, also nerf defias cannoneer so that it's either a, 2x2 damage to enemy minions b, 2x 1 damage to enemies or c, 1x 2 damage to an enemy, and have the quest be 3x3x3 pirates played.
Gnoll just fiddle with the stats so it's less oppressive. A cost increase wouldn't be too effective due to the various ways rogues can cheese it down. Scabbs to 8 mana, remove stealth from the 4x2s, and reduce hero power reduction to 1.
Have Ignite shuffle the card in at the end of turn. It keeps the spirit of the card (prevents fatigue, gets increasingly more powerful) but prevents crazy abuse. Incanters flow up to 4. Most classes need to have their mana cheating curbed too.
I'd like to see some priest love, it had a brief moment in the sun but it's win condition (illucia) was gross and not fun to play or play against, though the nerf obliterated the card (so many more viable nerfs but they nuked it). Discovering random crap isn't a win condition. After several years it shouldn't stay on the bottom but I don't think they've got a clue what they're doing with the class. They said we'd get shadow support but ended up giving the most hero power buffs to mage. I think the last time priest has a decent control deck, which wasn't hated because it was a balanced deck, was dragon and that was literally years ago.
i find it odd that people are suggesting nerfs to support cards to the quests rather than the absurdly broken quests themselves
Mainly because the quests aren't inherently broken powerful. Quest Hunter in Wild would be unplayable if not for being supported by the Odd-archetype and having Rapid Fire and Aimed Shot being odd cards. How do we know this? Because it already is unplayable in Standard.
Lol@ Cariel mana nerf as that really wouldn't make any difference. Real fix would be to make the weapon "lower damage by 2 but no less than 1"
The damage reduction effect is pretty whatever, it's hate for big burst I guess but the biggest power of the card is the board impact aspect, the permanent 2 damage weapon and the amount of stats the hero power gives you.
Having to wait a turn to play it *is* a significant nerf.
Ignite is probably not going to be changed as there's no way to change it without destroying the card completely.
Flamewaker is Wild so I have no idea why someone is talking about it in General. Same with Sorc Apprentice. The game is not balanced around Wild, we have this discussion every month.
People talk about these cards in wild formats because Blizz legit announced WILD balance changes are coming, and there are quite a few of us wild players out there. Sorcerers apprentice is already all but confirmed for a nerf this time around (finally) because of specific image teases posted by Blizz reps.
Also waker and ignite often get grouped together because of the viable otk combos with them also in wild. Flamewaker getting changed to target random minions would all but disarm that variant of the deck and ignite does the same for the spell's. Giving it the Trogg treatment should have the same effect. The trogg still gets played in decks and gets value early on in games but in later turns it loses value.
Same would happen with Ignite if Ignite got changed to simply shuffle a copy of itself into the deck. Yes two damage is still valuable in the early turns but the later the games drag the more value it loses.
Game buff, give all classes board silence for 4 mana neutral spell. Cause honestly these DR’s and mega buffed minions need a way to be counter that isn’t “play aggro and win on turn 4-5”.
also smite should give charge to OTHER pirates. Or change his mana cost to 9 so that would have to actually have a board to do something so we can stop the uncounterable 20+ hand damage he makes possible.
Mainly because the quests aren't inherently broken powerful. Quest Hunter in Wild would be unplayable if not for being supported by the Odd-archetype and having Rapid Fire and Aimed Shot being odd cards. How do we know this? Because it already is unplayable in Standard.
No, it wouldn't be fair. Also, dust refunds have nothing to do with whether Blizzard decides to nerf cards in standard or wild. Oh, and all cards are "current" in wild.
Card draw in Wild hopefully
DJ
WILD Banning cards and Standard +1 mana
this is more of a wishlist for standard than expectations but whatever:
Rogue - Wildpaw Gnoll stat decrease, cost increase, or both. Scabbs hero card to 8 mana, summons two 3/2s with stealth instead of 4/2s. Cloak of Shadows to 4 mana. Garrote to 3 wouldn’t be a bad change either.
Mage - ignite to 3, Mozaki to 7?? Honestly the card could be 10 mana for all i care. It needs to go.
Warrior - defias cannonner to 4, or changing the effect to dealing 2 damage to 1 enemy/1 damage to 2 enemies.
Druid - Guff hero card to 6, increase your mana cap to 15 instead of 20. solar/lunar eclipse to 3.
Paladin - Cariel hero card to 8.
hunter - dog biscuit to 3 or give a minion +2/+2.
priest - Undying Disciple to 2/7.
shaman - charged call to 4.
DH - Kurtrus to 7 or Expendable performers to 8.
warlock - tamsin hero card to 7.
Absolutely wrong. I got to legend with regular quest hunter in wild and with very few loses, all the way from bronze with 6 star bonus only. I actually love the flexibility of 2-cost damage spells and running cards like Dragonsbane. Around 90% winrate vs Questline warrior, also beats Odd hunters and pirate rogues (although it is close)
Lets say all mentioned cards are nerfed in Wild - you know what happens next?
Everyone starts playing even lock...
That's fine... Reno Priest, Secret Mage, Even Shaman, Odd Warrior, RenoLock, Quest Mage, Quest Rogue, etc.... are more welcomed to be back than Odd Hunter/Pirate Warrior/Ignite Mage on any day..
I don't doubt that it's possible that you achieved legend in wild with a non odd iteration of quest hunter, but it shouldn't be winning 90 percent of its matches against pwarr and it certainly shouldn't beat odd hunter. Pwarr is fairly evenly matched with odd hunter (although slightly unfavored), and odd quest hunter is quite simply more powerful than non-odd quest hunter. Additional flexibility is nice but fairly superfluous when the primary objective of the archetype is simply to complete the quest and go face, which odd hunter can easily do before turn 5. And once the quest is completed, that additional 1 damage from odd hp is invaluable for the purpose of killing one's opponent before they can kill you and doing so in a more efficient manner (relative to the normal 2 damage hp) that requires less cards to do so at that. It is also worth noting that the odd hp is superior for removal. Ultimately the benefits of playing odd far outweigh the relatively gratuitous advantages that flexibility provides for non-odd imo, particularly in a meta where the vast majority of archetypes are more than capable of finding lethal by turn 5 or 6.
I laid it out as a binary, because from Blizzard's standpoint as a business, I'm not convinced it's not dust related:
A: Would you rather have Wild remain as it is with degenerate decks that, if the Wild playerbase voted upon it, would likely see changes BUT those changes may not be entertained by Blizzard because of dust refunds for ancient cards going against corporate bottom lines.
B: Or would you rather forgo the dust refunds for those same cards, at the opportunity for more substantial changes to encourage a more robust and interesting Wild experience.
I realize I'm approaching a topic that is entirely subjective. Terms like "degenerate, robust and interesting" are loaded terms, but look past my adjectives if able. Also, this is all coming from a guy who has nearly every Wild card! If there are changes, chances are that I'd benefit dust-wise. But I'd forgo that in a heartbeat for some quality of life adjustments.
Or let me put it this way: Were you honestly happy with the era of Raza Priest, and then Secret Mage for 3 years, then Demon Seed Warlock, and now Pirate Warrior, Odd Hunter and Infinite Ignite Mage? And those last three, is that what you want for the next 2 years or more?
Don't play warrior but I think they should buff some non-pirate related cards so 90% of war players don't feel they need to play pirate quest (it's a low skill deck, pretty much plays itself). In standard/wild/duels, it's almost a guarantee pirate deck. That being said, also nerf defias cannoneer so that it's either a, 2x2 damage to enemy minions b, 2x 1 damage to enemies or c, 1x 2 damage to an enemy, and have the quest be 3x3x3 pirates played.
Gnoll just fiddle with the stats so it's less oppressive. A cost increase wouldn't be too effective due to the various ways rogues can cheese it down. Scabbs to 8 mana, remove stealth from the 4x2s, and reduce hero power reduction to 1.
Have Ignite shuffle the card in at the end of turn. It keeps the spirit of the card (prevents fatigue, gets increasingly more powerful) but prevents crazy abuse. Incanters flow up to 4. Most classes need to have their mana cheating curbed too.
I'd like to see some priest love, it had a brief moment in the sun but it's win condition (illucia) was gross and not fun to play or play against, though the nerf obliterated the card (so many more viable nerfs but they nuked it). Discovering random crap isn't a win condition. After several years it shouldn't stay on the bottom but I don't think they've got a clue what they're doing with the class. They said we'd get shadow support but ended up giving the most hero power buffs to mage. I think the last time priest has a decent control deck, which wasn't hated because it was a balanced deck, was dragon and that was literally years ago.
false, it's actually quite playable in standard https://hsreplay.net/decks/2CTSxnX0FbZcEqRrwwdxFg/#gameType=RANKED_STANDARD
The damage reduction effect is pretty whatever, it's hate for big burst I guess but the biggest power of the card is the board impact aspect, the permanent 2 damage weapon and the amount of stats the hero power gives you.
Having to wait a turn to play it *is* a significant nerf.
wrong, they have already teased that sorcerers apprentice is being changed, do you feel dumb now?
People talk about these cards in wild formats because Blizz legit announced WILD balance changes are coming, and there are quite a few of us wild players out there. Sorcerers apprentice is already all but confirmed for a nerf this time around (finally) because of specific image teases posted by Blizz reps.
Also waker and ignite often get grouped together because of the viable otk combos with them also in wild. Flamewaker getting changed to target random minions would all but disarm that variant of the deck and ignite does the same for the spell's. Giving it the Trogg treatment should have the same effect. The trogg still gets played in decks and gets value early on in games but in later turns it loses value.
Same would happen with Ignite if Ignite got changed to simply shuffle a copy of itself into the deck. Yes two damage is still valuable in the early turns but the later the games drag the more value it loses.
Why would they nerf paladin it’s not a good deck at all
Paladin is trash iwhy would they nerf it
Game buff, give all classes board silence for 4 mana neutral spell. Cause honestly these DR’s and mega buffed minions need a way to be counter that isn’t “play aggro and win on turn 4-5”.
also smite should give charge to OTHER pirates. Or change his mana cost to 9 so that would have to actually have a board to do something so we can stop the uncounterable 20+ hand damage he makes possible.
Obviously Maestra of the Masquerade cost 3 and The Immovable Object 2/4
datamine patch v22.2 (rus) https://glasscannon.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=5041