Why do these classes have the potential to ruin the fun for everyone? They can so easily get out of hand and build disgusting decks. What do they have in common? The ridiculous potential of mana discount and draw. Ok for mage it could be these specific card sets. But for warlock and rogue it’s like staple gameplay. Something needs to be fixed there for good.
That's like your opinion, for some people it's priest warrior hunter who ruin the fun, for others it's paladin DH druid, every class has direct or virtual mana discount now, yes it's the root of many problems but it's not specific to a few classes anymore. It used to be druid identity and rogue gimmick, then Thaurissan came out and it all went down hill from there.
What do you propose to be fixed first ? Getting rid of all mana discount, excessive card draw and powercreep is a huge task, the game would need a massive nerf patch for every expansion including trash ones like BRM or Rastakhan, then blizzard would need to care more about the game than the money and hire new devs and stop printing powercreeped cards in future expansions and get rid of the very concept of mana cheating altogether to actually balance this game properly, which means at the very least rebooting druid entirely.
We can all agree that the latter will not happen, we all live for money in this dog shit world, it's only fair that blizzard do as well. So not only powercreep, but powercreep of mana discount mechanics will happen in future expansions. Can we even balance this out with nerfs and fixes ? I don't think so, not for long anyway, but would be happy to be proven wrong
The whole game is ruined by netdecking though, why do an expansion when after 2 days everyone is playing the same couple of decks anyway, its how its always been and always will be, you have to just accept Hearthstone is very dull 50 weeks of the year
No incentive to climb the ladder as rewards are bad, quests and play something else in the hope they fix the game and make it fun one day
You are talking like if paladin druid and shaman are pretty normal and fun to play against lol. Today I hit paladin's face 100 damage but with constant healing and halving the damage and putting ridiculous big minions to the board I still lost. freeze shaman is a ticking bomb you defuse or lose it is unfun as fuck dude I don't want to get stressed over a game I don't want to play a time race in a card game wtf. Same for Beast druid and endless swarm of beasts.
Rogue has been a tricky class for sure. That's in the identity of being a stealthy burst melee class. Remember the "I have fun until my cards get nerfed" meme?
Mage also have an identity that easily gets un-interactive by being a burst spell caster class. As soon as mage can deal 30 dmg with spells only, they will.
Warlock is more a matter of random powerful cards I think. The class has (maybe) the best hero power, which resulted in a weaker classic set. The core set brought solid control + anti-control cards that made warlock too sturdy.
Then again, druid has (and always had) no-game wins with mana cheat high-rolls. Hunter has steady damage going, which forces you to have healing or better tempo.
Paladin has been super over-tuned lately, but the board-buff-heal identity is just not as problematic by nature.
As I mentioned before and insist until now, get rid of the mana cheating concepts for all classes except for Druid/Rogue. Let Hearthstone go back to its nature back in 2014-2015-2016.
Lol? Warlock has literally one playable deck in standard (Handlock) and it only works thanks to The Demon Seed, Flesh Giant and Raise Dead. After Runed Mithril Rod has beed nerfed twice (which eventually made the card pretty dead), Warlock has no access to true mana cheating, only some minions with built-in, conditional discounts. On top of that, this year's rotation will kill the deck, probably alongside the whole class.
Lol? Warlock has literally one playable deck in standard (Handlock) and it only works thanks to The Demon Seed, Flesh Giant and Raise Dead. After Runed Mithril Rod has beed nerfed twice (which eventually made the card pretty dead), Warlock has no access to true mana cheating, only some minions with built-in, conditional discounts. On top of that, this year's rotation will kill the deck, probably alongside the whole class.
I don't think Warlock is a problem atm either. Question is if they should continue with the anti-control/salt-miner path at all? I kind of miss Zoo :)
Lol? Warlock has literally one playable deck in standard (Handlock) and it only works thanks to The Demon Seed, Flesh Giant and Raise Dead. After Runed Mithril Rod has beed nerfed twice (which eventually made the card pretty dead), Warlock has no access to true mana cheating, only some minions with built-in, conditional discounts. On top of that, this year's rotation will kill the deck, probably alongside the whole class.
I don't think Warlock is a problem atm either. Question is if they should continue with the anti-control/salt-miner path at all? I kind of miss Zoo :)
The other day I played a Warlock. Turn 1 no quest; I chuckled to myself. Turn 2 Nerubian Egg. Turn 3 Desecrated Graveyard. Turn 4 tap into other Egg. Turn 5 Burning Blade Acolyte. I wasn't chuckling after that.
Question is if they should continue with the anti-control/salt-miner path at all?
I sincerely doubt they will. Judging by the last expansion, fel is their new idea for Warlock development. It kinda sucks so far, but we'll see.
I kind of miss Zoo :)
And I don't, because I think zoo is one of the most boring and redundant decks in Hearthstone today. Paladin is better at buffing hand, Druid is better at buffing board, Hunter, Shaman, Demon Hunter and Warrior are better at SMORCing. It does a little bit of everything, but it's also outclassed by everything... I don't even remember the last time zoo was a T1 deck.
The whole game is ruined by netdecking though, why do an expansion when after 2 days everyone is playing the same couple of decks anyway, its how its always been and always will be, you have to just accept Hearthstone is very dull 50 weeks of the year
No incentive to climb the ladder as rewards are bad, quests and play something else in the hope they fix the game and make it fun one day
Ah yes, the "everyone needs to be a master level homebrew deckbuilder" argument.
Actually you just need to quit hearthstone on the whole, it seems.
Question is if they should continue with the anti-control/salt-miner path at all?
I sincerely doubt they will. Judging by the last expansion, fel is their new idea for Warlock development. It kinda sucks so far, but we'll see.
I kind of miss Zoo :)
And I don't, because I think zoo is one of the most boring and redundant decks in Hearthstone today. Paladin is better at buffing hand, Druid is better at buffing board, Hunter, Shaman, Demon Hunter and Warrior are better at SMORCing. It does a little bit of everything, but it's also outclassed by everything... I don't even remember the last time zoo was a T1 deck.
The Darkmoon Zoolock wasn't so bad was it? I agree that it only really excels by having more draw than most aggro decks, which rogue and DH kind of took over now, and otherwise seem a bit plane. Having the option makes warlocks more interesting to play against thou :)
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Rise of shadows introduced a solid Zoolock (Viber almost won worlds with it). And post Edwin nerf in Darkmoon Faire was maybe a tier 2 (just what I remember at least)
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Rise of shadows introduced a solid Zoolock (Viber almost won worlds with it). And post Edwin nerf in Darkmoon Faire was maybe a tier 2 (just what I remember at least)
In the final VS report for RoS, Warlock was the least popular class in the meta (2,51% play rate), with only one "viable" deck (zoo) and it was placed at the bottom of T3.
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Rise of shadows introduced a solid Zoolock (Viber almost won worlds with it). And post Edwin nerf in Darkmoon Faire was maybe a tier 2 (just what I remember at least)
In the final VS report for RoS, Warlock was the least popular class in the meta (2,51% play rate), with only one "viable" deck (zoo) and it was placed at the bottom of T3.
I think the all-round properties of zoo made it a nice aggro deck to face. But maybe class identities should override it and give the "aggro with draw" role to DH.
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Why do these classes have the potential to ruin the fun for everyone? They can so easily get out of hand and build disgusting decks. What do they have in common? The ridiculous potential of mana discount and draw. Ok for mage it could be these specific card sets. But for warlock and rogue it’s like staple gameplay. Something needs to be fixed there for good.
That's like your opinion, for some people it's priest warrior hunter who ruin the fun, for others it's paladin DH druid, every class has direct or virtual mana discount now, yes it's the root of many problems but it's not specific to a few classes anymore. It used to be druid identity and rogue gimmick, then Thaurissan came out and it all went down hill from there.
What do you propose to be fixed first ? Getting rid of all mana discount, excessive card draw and powercreep is a huge task, the game would need a massive nerf patch for every expansion including trash ones like BRM or Rastakhan, then blizzard would need to care more about the game than the money and hire new devs and stop printing powercreeped cards in future expansions and get rid of the very concept of mana cheating altogether to actually balance this game properly, which means at the very least rebooting druid entirely.
We can all agree that the latter will not happen, we all live for money in this dog shit world, it's only fair that blizzard do as well. So not only powercreep, but powercreep of mana discount mechanics will happen in future expansions. Can we even balance this out with nerfs and fixes ? I don't think so, not for long anyway, but would be happy to be proven wrong
The whole game is ruined by netdecking though, why do an expansion when after 2 days everyone is playing the same couple of decks anyway, its how its always been and always will be, you have to just accept Hearthstone is very dull 50 weeks of the year
No incentive to climb the ladder as rewards are bad, quests and play something else in the hope they fix the game and make it fun one day
Every class has the potential to ruin your day. :)
You are talking like if paladin druid and shaman are pretty normal and fun to play against lol. Today I hit paladin's face 100 damage but with constant healing and halving the damage and putting ridiculous big minions to the board I still lost. freeze shaman is a ticking bomb you defuse or lose it is unfun as fuck dude I don't want to get stressed over a game I don't want to play a time race in a card game wtf. Same for Beast druid and endless swarm of beasts.
Rogue has been a tricky class for sure. That's in the identity of being a stealthy burst melee class. Remember the "I have fun until my cards get nerfed" meme?
Mage also have an identity that easily gets un-interactive by being a burst spell caster class. As soon as mage can deal 30 dmg with spells only, they will.
Warlock is more a matter of random powerful cards I think. The class has (maybe) the best hero power, which resulted in a weaker classic set. The core set brought solid control + anti-control cards that made warlock too sturdy.
Then again, druid has (and always had) no-game wins with mana cheat high-rolls. Hunter has steady damage going, which forces you to have healing or better tempo.
Paladin has been super over-tuned lately, but the board-buff-heal identity is just not as problematic by nature.
As I mentioned before and insist until now, get rid of the mana cheating concepts for all classes except for Druid/Rogue. Let Hearthstone go back to its nature back in 2014-2015-2016.
Lol? Warlock has literally one playable deck in standard (Handlock) and it only works thanks to The Demon Seed, Flesh Giant and Raise Dead. After Runed Mithril Rod has beed nerfed twice (which eventually made the card pretty dead), Warlock has no access to true mana cheating, only some minions with built-in, conditional discounts. On top of that, this year's rotation will kill the deck, probably alongside the whole class.
I don't think Warlock is a problem atm either. Question is if they should continue with the anti-control/salt-miner path at all? I kind of miss Zoo :)
How many archetypes has the “quest line” BS destroyed? Insane.
good job team 5. Enjoy your cube crawl.
The other day I played a Warlock. Turn 1 no quest; I chuckled to myself. Turn 2 Nerubian Egg. Turn 3 Desecrated Graveyard. Turn 4 tap into other Egg. Turn 5 Burning Blade Acolyte. I wasn't chuckling after that.
I sincerely doubt they will. Judging by the last expansion, fel is their new idea for Warlock development. It kinda sucks so far, but we'll see.
And I don't, because I think zoo is one of the most boring and redundant decks in Hearthstone today. Paladin is better at buffing hand, Druid is better at buffing board, Hunter, Shaman, Demon Hunter and Warrior are better at SMORCing. It does a little bit of everything, but it's also outclassed by everything... I don't even remember the last time zoo was a T1 deck.
:|
Ah yes, the "everyone needs to be a master level homebrew deckbuilder" argument.
Actually you just need to quit hearthstone on the whole, it seems.
The Darkmoon Zoolock wasn't so bad was it? I agree that it only really excels by having more draw than most aggro decks, which rogue and DH kind of took over now, and otherwise seem a bit plane. Having the option makes warlocks more interesting to play against thou :)
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Rise of shadows introduced a solid Zoolock (Viber almost won worlds with it). And post Edwin nerf in Darkmoon Faire was maybe a tier 2 (just what I remember at least)
In the final VS report for RoS, Warlock was the least popular class in the meta (2,51% play rate), with only one "viable" deck (zoo) and it was placed at the bottom of T3.
https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-136/
On the other hand, at the end of DF, zoo was considered a high T2, so it wasn't too bad.
https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-191/
At least my gut got one right ;)
I think the all-round properties of zoo made it a nice aggro deck to face. But maybe class identities should override it and give the "aggro with draw" role to DH.