So if you want to whine about cards affecting wild mode, why don't you post in the wild section? It's very natural to assume that general constructed refers mainly to Standard, since it is by far the most played game mode. The wild pond is much smaller than standard, because you count the players, not the number of cards. I hope this finally enlightens you, darling.
The thread is literally titled "how to nerf quests" in the General Discussion and I pitched in with my views on where they are problematic and how to fix them. You come flying in saying how quests are fine and Wild sucks, neither of which were very useful for the discussion. So again: Why are you posting here?
They banned Warlock quest and did some balance changes around Wild cards earlier this year, it is not like they completely ignored Wild mode. It is just not on their priority list. The existence of the Mercenaries mode slowed their priorities even more.....
It is understandable that balance changes are considered around Standard format, but to make it easier for both modes, best is to ban Warrior/Hunter quest in Wild... so we don't have to ever worry about these and their balance changes again in Wild.
If you just play and care about Standard format, then these ban shouldn't affect your game anyway.
That was exactly my point to Andrei, but he appears to be one of those folks who Loves To Whine About The "Whiners", which there is no helping. *shrug*
So if you want to whine about cards affecting wild mode, why don't you post in the wild section? It's very natural to assume that general constructed refers mainly to Standard, since it is by far the most played game mode. The wild pond is much smaller than standard, because you count the players, not the number of cards. I hope this finally enlightens you, darling.
First off it is not a whine but a suggestion/idea
Second I play both standard and wild and YES quests are played a lot in standard too: quest warrior and quest warlock are at the moment among the most played archetypes in standard. Go check meta stats and get your facts straight ... darling
I'd say make the end reward a spell, with no body. Thats what some of the quest rewards were back in ungoro. the 7/7 body that comes with the quest gives too much tempo imo.
If the complaint is about Warlock, then you'd nerf the healing capabilities the class has, since it just negates any negative aspect about a card. Even the healing class Priest can't even compete with the amount that Warlock can regain back.
Okay hang on. Priest can definitely pump out more healing that warlock, priests healing just isn’t stapled to removal.
The problem with warlock is the removal/healing package, as it’s a double down in healing. If you touch of naz a 3/2, it’s essentially healing you for 7, because you’re removing the 3 attack as well.
The quilboar takes this even farther.
Warlocks healing is op because most of it is stapled to a removal option as well, this is the critical mass it has hit and why the class is so good. But in terms of raw healing itself, priest wins by a mile. Paladin is the only class that can toe to toe priest in the actual healing department.
They will never print a card with "battlecry: destroy your opponent's win condition". I know there is Tickatus and some similar cards, but its a different story. Quest destruction will not happen for sure.
IMO some of the quests should be nerfed, but not all of them and we dont need to completely nerf them to the ground. Something like pirate quest's first step should require 4 pirates, hunter quest's second step should require 3 damaging spells. Small steps like this could make a huge difference in winrate and if its not enough they can nerf them again. Warlock and mage quests are nerfed already and I dont see a problem with any other quests.
There is also a way to indirectly nerf quests and it comes with the new rotation in april. Im not just talking about the rotating sets but also a new core set in 2022. They can shape the core set to not include cards that are great with the stronger quests and they will probably do so.
What quest is the problem exactly? Mage, Warlock are no longer playing the quests. You're about 2 months behind my dear.
Let's take a merry little jaunt over to HSReplay, shall we?
Hrmmm.
Nope. Seems like at this exact moment, two of the top four winrate decks in standard are quest decks (Warrior and Warlock), and a third (Quest Rogue) is also slotting into tier 2 status and tearing things up.
Seems like no. It's not these people, but you who is several months behind the meta.
Furthermore, your argument about wild not mattering is all kinds of dumb - the fact that at least one questline needed to be banned from the format for balance reasons should definitely cue you in that their fundamental designs might be a problem for the game, long term. Quest Warlock has been nerfed at least 7 times, and still is one of the top 4 decks in standard, and is outright banned from wild for being too strong. That should immediately throw some red flags about how healthy such a card even is for the game, at all.
a. if you nerf Warlocks quest, people will start to play either OWLock or Tickatus and the gameplay is pretty much the same vs them for most classes
b. Warrior quest is garbage by itself, sure you can nerf it even more to the ground but it's the supporting cards that matter. It's frustrating to play vs it but with more and more control decks it's not going to matter that much
I speak as a standard player, but other quests aren't even a thing anymore?
I haven an Idea how to nerve the quests. What about a card that does not kill it completely but reset its progress. So if a warlock is in part 3 2 damage away from solving the quest and you play the card he will get back to the beginning of part 1 or you could just throw him back 1 quest part so he goes from 3 to 2 if a full reset is too powerfull
Ps: sry if my english sucks i hope you understand what i mean
I think that there should be some form of counter, but one trick decks usually don't expose their main pieces for six or seven turns for you to freely negate their entire deck strategy.
The currently played quests are meta because they are fast: warrior gains draw and an infinite generator, warlock gains giant progress and a win condition and hunter gains a free win hero power with a refresh.
The other quests are too slow and I think that could be a good tech card, either removing or resetting progress or adding requirements to the current step as that would allow the other player to plan and play around the tech but not lose instantly every time.
I think that there should be some form of counter, but one trick decks usually don't expose their main pieces for six or seven turns for you to freely negate their entire deck strategy.
The currently played quests are meta because they are fast: warrior gains draw and an infinite generator, warlock gains giant progress and a win condition and hunter gains a free win hero power with a refresh.
The other quests are too slow and I think that could be a good tech card, either removing or resetting progress or adding requirements to the current step as that would allow the other player to plan and play around the tech but not lose instantly every time.
And I still see no problem in losing instantly every time your quest is destroyed. I really don't.
It can be played around by adding secondary win condition(s) to your deck. One trick ponies should be risky not the best decks. It is not like one-trick ponies will become absolutely non-viable. To lose they need to face a deck that plays the tech and have that tech drawn. But it will prevent silly stuff like odd wild quest hunter from becoming S tier.
The underlying issue is the design philosophy that prioritizes certain mechanical/thematical consistencies and simple solutions over the most efficient ways to solve issues. The fact that numbers 11 and 13 are avoided in cards' stats and costs. The fact that problematic card interactions cannot be solved by making explicit exceptions that are mentioned in card texts. And in this case, the fact that all the quests have to cost exactly 1 mana, and that all the questline rewards have to be 5 mana 7/7, because the new players would be confused by different cards having different stats or costs.
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The thread is literally titled "how to nerf quests" in the General Discussion and I pitched in with my views on where they are problematic and how to fix them. You come flying in saying how quests are fine and Wild sucks, neither of which were very useful for the discussion. So again: Why are you posting here?
That was exactly my point to Andrei, but he appears to be one of those folks who Loves To Whine About The "Whiners", which there is no helping. *shrug*
Problem with warrior is they don’t even play the pirate right as long as it is pirate spew hand and win
First off it is not a whine but a suggestion/idea
Second I play both standard and wild and YES quests are played a lot in standard too: quest warrior and quest warlock are at the moment among the most played archetypes in standard. Go check meta stats and get your facts straight ... darling
I'd say make the end reward a spell, with no body. Thats what some of the quest rewards were back in ungoro. the 7/7 body that comes with the quest gives too much tempo imo.
Okay hang on. Priest can definitely pump out more healing that warlock, priests healing just isn’t stapled to removal.
The problem with warlock is the removal/healing package, as it’s a double down in healing. If you touch of naz a 3/2, it’s essentially healing you for 7, because you’re removing the 3 attack as well.
The quilboar takes this even farther.
Warlocks healing is op because most of it is stapled to a removal option as well, this is the critical mass it has hit and why the class is so good. But in terms of raw healing itself, priest wins by a mile. Paladin is the only class that can toe to toe priest in the actual healing department.
Might want to check the statistics again. Unless you were talking about Wild, where the quest is banned.
Damn this Andrei guy is really something lol
Tech card that kill quests would be too much. Maybe something that bring quest progress back by some steps.
They will never print a card with "battlecry: destroy your opponent's win condition". I know there is Tickatus and some similar cards, but its a different story. Quest destruction will not happen for sure.
IMO some of the quests should be nerfed, but not all of them and we dont need to completely nerf them to the ground. Something like pirate quest's first step should require 4 pirates, hunter quest's second step should require 3 damaging spells. Small steps like this could make a huge difference in winrate and if its not enough they can nerf them again. Warlock and mage quests are nerfed already and I dont see a problem with any other quests.
There is also a way to indirectly nerf quests and it comes with the new rotation in april. Im not just talking about the rotating sets but also a new core set in 2022. They can shape the core set to not include cards that are great with the stronger quests and they will probably do so.
Why? Why is it too much? One trick pony decks should be afraid that their one trick can be disarmed
Let's take a merry little jaunt over to HSReplay, shall we?
Hrmmm.
Nope. Seems like at this exact moment, two of the top four winrate decks in standard are quest decks (Warrior and Warlock), and a third (Quest Rogue) is also slotting into tier 2 status and tearing things up.
Seems like no. It's not these people, but you who is several months behind the meta.
Furthermore, your argument about wild not mattering is all kinds of dumb - the fact that at least one questline needed to be banned from the format for balance reasons should definitely cue you in that their fundamental designs might be a problem for the game, long term. Quest Warlock has been nerfed at least 7 times, and still is one of the top 4 decks in standard, and is outright banned from wild for being too strong. That should immediately throw some red flags about how healthy such a card even is for the game, at all.
Some quests are poorly designed, but to be fair:
a. if you nerf Warlocks quest, people will start to play either OWLock or Tickatus and the gameplay is pretty much the same vs them for most classes
b. Warrior quest is garbage by itself, sure you can nerf it even more to the ground but it's the supporting cards that matter. It's frustrating to play vs it but with more and more control decks it's not going to matter that much
I speak as a standard player, but other quests aren't even a thing anymore?
I'm not Paul George, I'm just a fan.
I haven an Idea how to nerve the quests. What about a card that does not kill it completely but reset its progress. So if a warlock is in part 3 2 damage away from solving the quest and you play the card he will get back to the beginning of part 1 or you could just throw him back 1 quest part so he goes from 3 to 2 if a full reset is too powerfull
Ps: sry if my english sucks i hope you understand what i mean
I think that there should be some form of counter, but one trick decks usually don't expose their main pieces for six or seven turns for you to freely negate their entire deck strategy.
The currently played quests are meta because they are fast: warrior gains draw and an infinite generator, warlock gains giant progress and a win condition and hunter gains a free win hero power with a refresh.
The other quests are too slow and I think that could be a good tech card, either removing or resetting progress or adding requirements to the current step as that would allow the other player to plan and play around the tech but not lose instantly every time.
There is a definitive way to fix all hearthstone card design problems. Change design team with a better one.
Oh, quests certainly have to rotate in April. Are there other problems? Sure, but like Genn and Baku, they just need to be gone early.
Beyond that, yeah, some basic nerfs are would probably be helpful to Wild.
And I still see no problem in losing instantly every time your quest is destroyed. I really don't.
It can be played around by adding secondary win condition(s) to your deck. One trick ponies should be risky not the best decks. It is not like one-trick ponies will become absolutely non-viable. To lose they need to face a deck that plays the tech and have that tech drawn. But it will prevent silly stuff like odd wild quest hunter from becoming S tier.
The underlying issue is the design philosophy that prioritizes certain mechanical/thematical consistencies and simple solutions over the most efficient ways to solve issues. The fact that numbers 11 and 13 are avoided in cards' stats and costs. The fact that problematic card interactions cannot be solved by making explicit exceptions that are mentioned in card texts. And in this case, the fact that all the quests have to cost exactly 1 mana, and that all the questline rewards have to be 5 mana 7/7, because the new players would be confused by different cards having different stats or costs.