well, i do not really agree. I'm currently Diamond 2 and there are alot of pirate warriors and odd face hunters. They benefit ALOT from coin and the aditional card. The coin is >6 dmg for facehunter.
Coin is not too good. The first player has 1 mana advantage over the second one each turn until turn 10 (so, after their opponent's 2 mana turn, they have 3 mana, after their 3 mana they have 4 etc.) The Coin gives the second player one turn with equal mana to their opponent's next turn. It's balanced.
Coin is not too good. The first player has 1 mana advantage over the second one each turn until turn 10 (so, after their opponent's 2 mana turn, they have 3 mana, after their 3 mana they have 4 etc.) The Coin gives the second player one turn with equal mana to their opponent's next turn. It's balanced.
Thats true but dont forget the extra card. In the current meta where the right start hand is important, its extremely good imo.
Coin is definitely not too good, unless you use it for other combos. For a more even matchup, the player that goes second should receive another coin the turn after he uses the initial one. And not even that might be enough...
The only change I'd make to the coin is make it not a spell. Currently, it's weighted too heavily towards helping combos (in Rogue) and spell triggers (in Mage). It's also especially useful in both Mage Quests (not so much the Questline) and pushes unhealthy cards like Flamewaker.
It just doesn't feel right having a free card that can tip the match an even more extreme amount for certain classes and decks.
Changing coin to not be a spell would also disable entire lines of counterplay against secrets though. It would have far reaching consequences beyond just the combos you guys think are overpowered. And even in the examples you guys keep bringing up, coin still isn't better than going first, except some weird fringe situations. Overall though, coin needs every bit of use it currently has, because in all non-fringe situations going first is just flat-out better, even with the coin having all the uses it has.
Stats in arena show going first is superior, but in standard/wild having the coin is superior. In most instances I think having coin is similar to playing white in chess, and definitely atleast a 5% advantage.
Just fundamentally change the gameplay where both players take their turns at the same time. All minions have charge and if anyone plays a taunt it can't block anything until the next turn.
Games are over in 2 minutes and nobody has any fun.
I think I'd be ok with it not being a spell. However, I think the poll says it all. Frankly, the coin was just a good design decision to even things up on the first 2 turns.
Win-rate ranking of Deadmines mini-set week 1 in ranked standard (top 1% MMR)
FTA % = First turn advantage. Considering there are only 2 decks that have a higher winrate when going 2nd id say the coin is perfectly fine. Source: Tian Dings Twitter.
It has been proven Over and over again that strictly outside of rogue, the player going first has something like a 50.7% chance to win as opposed to the opposite.
This of course does not account for matchups and bad luck, but just as a general data point.
well, i do not really agree. I'm currently Diamond 2 and there are alot of pirate warriors and odd face hunters. They benefit ALOT from coin and the aditional card. The coin is >6 dmg for facehunter.
Pirate warrior can coin out the Cannon combo too.
I think they really benefit from the coin.
You can forgive, but never forget.
More cheap cards printed at 1-3 mana cost getting powercreep = coin being abused more to the advantage of the 2nd turn player
lol you've never played quest priest if you believe it takes 10 minutes to reach the quest reward and play it, mate.
Even with the coin and card advantage going first has an overall better winrate.
Coin is not too good. The first player has 1 mana advantage over the second one each turn until turn 10 (so, after their opponent's 2 mana turn, they have 3 mana, after their 3 mana they have 4 etc.) The Coin gives the second player one turn with equal mana to their opponent's next turn. It's balanced.
Thats true but dont forget the extra card. In the current meta where the right start hand is important, its extremely good imo.
You can forgive, but never forget.
Coin is definitely not too good, unless you use it for other combos. For a more even matchup, the player that goes second should receive another coin the turn after he uses the initial one. And not even that might be enough...
Coin has never and will never be too strong. The problem is, and will always be, other cards. Fix those cards.
The only change I'd make to the coin is make it not a spell. Currently, it's weighted too heavily towards helping combos (in Rogue) and spell triggers (in Mage). It's also especially useful in both Mage Quests (not so much the Questline) and pushes unhealthy cards like Flamewaker.
It just doesn't feel right having a free card that can tip the match an even more extreme amount for certain classes and decks.
Changing coin to not be a spell would also disable entire lines of counterplay against secrets though. It would have far reaching consequences beyond just the combos you guys think are overpowered. And even in the examples you guys keep bringing up, coin still isn't better than going first, except some weird fringe situations. Overall though, coin needs every bit of use it currently has, because in all non-fringe situations going first is just flat-out better, even with the coin having all the uses it has.
Stats in arena show going first is superior, but in standard/wild having the coin is superior. In most instances I think having coin is similar to playing white in chess, and definitely atleast a 5% advantage.
Just fundamentally change the gameplay where both players take their turns at the same time. All minions have charge and if anyone plays a taunt it can't block anything until the next turn.
Games are over in 2 minutes and nobody has any fun.
Coin problem is now fixed. ;)
I think no. For example, in this deck, the coin plays absolutely no role.
I think I'd be ok with it not being a spell. However, I think the poll says it all. Frankly, the coin was just a good design decision to even things up on the first 2 turns.
Win-rate ranking of Deadmines mini-set week 1 in ranked standard (top 1% MMR)
FTA % = First turn advantage. Considering there are only 2 decks that have a higher winrate when going 2nd id say the coin is perfectly fine. Source: Tian Dings Twitter.
It has been proven Over and over again that strictly outside of rogue, the player going first has something like a 50.7% chance to win as opposed to the opposite.
This of course does not account for matchups and bad luck, but just as a general data point.
Exactly.