[...] that MMR is set up to achieve a 50% win rate. That in itself is manipulation AKA rigging. [...]
Unless you want to define rigging as "I can't play versus ALL the players", then it is not rigged.
MMR doesn't say you can win only 50%, it only groups players of equal rating together because stomping rank 50 beginners is just as boring as getting stomped by top 10 legend players. So the result is that you face players of roughly equal skill level and guess how often you win versus equally skilled players: about 50%.
So if you think that excluding basically predetermined games is rigging, then yes, any game using rating is rigged.
You could continue pushing the "I'm so confident that I'm right that I don't need to check, and only stupid people don't believe what strangers tell them online" angle.
And hope that nobody thinks too hard about why you'd go from "ok I'll get some actual numbers to settle the issue" to "I've decided that numbers don't matter" in roughly the amount of time it'd take you to start recording some data.
And that nobody looks at Shed's post.
And then you could claim that anyone who says that's a load of childish nonsense is motivated by.... I dunno exactly. Being such diehard Blizzard fans that we can't bear to hear criticism directed towards our beloved video game developer, I guess. As evidenced by our compulsive and stupid need to employ critical thinking rather than just accepting what you claim. And could check! But refuse to. Because evidence is for dumb-dumbs and big brain types don't question strangers' hunches.
For the record, I thought Diablo 2 was a fantastic game 20 years ago. I was disappointed by Diablo 3, I tried to get into WoW a few times with no success, and the rest of Blizzard's games are in genres I have little to no interest in. I hate the monetization of Hearthstone, hated the monetization of HotS, hated the always-online DRM requirement for D3 and so on. In light of the recent lawsuits they're also not a company I want to support financially for the time being, which is sort of lucky for me because I've been pretty burned out on Hearthstone since around Ashes of Outland.
I could go on but I don't think any of this is relevant. I'm pretty far from being a Blizzard super fan, is what I'm getting at.
Come on dude, we can all see that the emperor's wearing no clothes. It'd be absurd to continue arguing at this point. I certainly don't intend to.
Or you could just play the fucking game with a single deck for about 50 matches, then switch decks to counter decks that give you trouble and count the number of times you face that deck again. I mean it happens to everyone.
There you go my lovely folks, my humble statistics from Stormwind launch to today, looks like no tempering done.
Looks boringly normal. Could be interesting if you can see the numbers before and after the big shaman nerf. He surely was very popular before but now I don't see a lot.
Edit: The warrior data might be the only weird one. I assume that you mostly played W after nerfs but where are all the aggro druids? Maybe you were just on the right end of the ladder?
Since that's everyone's favourite reason to visit Hearthpwn - everyone! Get in here!
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Man, I just hate it when the game is rigged and it makes me feel bad, but I keep playing because I can't control myself. Damn it Blizzard! This is your fault!
Match up against the same deck over and over again using your same deck over and over again.
Change your deck.
You then no longer match up against that same deck over and over again.
It's been like this for a long time. I don't care if people want to dismiss it as anecdotal evidence. But then they do that and say in the same breath say that MMR is set up to achieve a 50% win rate. That in itself is manipulation AKA rigging.
Why is it whenever this is brought up a bunch of wall defenders feel the need to tell you how wrong you are? I'm not going to waste my time with deck trackers. I have this thing called a memory. How about YOU use a deck tracker. Go ahead, play the same deck say 50 times. Tell me what what happens. Then switch your deck. Play another 50. Tell me what happens. And I won't ask for proof because I would believe you.
You're right it is anecdotal and pseudoscientific. Psychologically speaking those who claim to have bad luck with something usually don't actually have worse luck than anyone else. You're saying you aren't tracking this, just going on feeling. This isn't our experience so If you want to convince us by using a known fallacy as evidence its not going to work.
There you go my lovely folks, my humble statistics from Stormwind launch to today, looks like no tempering done.
Looks boringly normal. Could be interesting if you can see the numbers before and after the big shaman nerf. He surely was very popular before but now I don't see a lot.
Edit: The warrior data might be the only weird one. I assume that you mostly played W after nerfs but where are all the aggro druids? Maybe you were just on the right end of the ladder?
From launch I started of playign Quest Mage and very quickly switched to Rush Warrior when Robes of Protection started showing up a lot, played some matches with Buff Paladin to not burn out on the decks I had, dropped those when Quest Shaman became popular because Warrior was having some trouble with it, I pick up Quest Shaman itself for the legend push, on new season I started playing Astral Druid, while having stray matches with Quest Mage, Shaman, Elemental Shaman and Tempo DH. I posted my screenshot when Aggro Druid was picking up steam, now it's everywhere and I'm playing it too.
Match up against the same deck over and over again using your same deck over and over again.
Change your deck.
You then no longer match up against that same deck over and over again.
It's been like this for a long time. I don't care if people want to dismiss it as anecdotal evidence. But then they do that and say in the same breath say that MMR is set up to achieve a 50% win rate. That in itself is manipulation AKA rigging.
Why is it whenever this is brought up a bunch of wall defenders feel the need to tell you how wrong you are? I'm not going to waste my time with deck trackers. I have this thing called a memory. How about YOU use a deck tracker. Go ahead, play the same deck say 50 times. Tell me what what happens. Then switch your deck. Play another 50. Tell me what happens. And I won't ask for proof because I would believe you.
You're right it is anecdotal and pseudoscientific. Psychologically speaking those who claim to have bad luck with something usually don't actually have worse luck than anyone else. You're saying you aren't tracking this, just going on feeling. This isn't our experience so If you want to convince us by using a known fallacy as evidence its not going to work.
OK let's break it down for the simple around here.
This isn't about losing. This isn't about bad luck. I never said I was losing. Can you read?
AGAIN FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME -
If you play the same deck long enough, you will notice a pattern of hitting a counter to that deck repeatedly. If you switch to another deck, you rarely see that counter deck.
Got it now? This isn't difficult. It goes in line with Blizzard wanting a 50% winrate. Duh der Do YoU unDerStand NoW?
The bad luck I was referring to translates to your apparent track record of getting matched against a counter. This pattern your talking about isn't experienced by us. You'd have to present evidence to convince us its real. You don't see how this is an issue?
Match up against the same deck over and over again using your same deck over and over again.
Change your deck.
You then no longer match up against that same deck over and over again.
It's been like this for a long time. I don't care if people want to dismiss it as anecdotal evidence. But then they do that and say in the same breath say that MMR is set up to achieve a 50% win rate. That in itself is manipulation AKA rigging.
Why is it whenever this is brought up a bunch of wall defenders feel the need to tell you how wrong you are? I'm not going to waste my time with deck trackers. I have this thing called a memory. How about YOU use a deck tracker. Go ahead, play the same deck say 50 times. Tell me what what happens. Then switch your deck. Play another 50. Tell me what happens. And I won't ask for proof because I would believe you.
You're right it is anecdotal and pseudoscientific. Psychologically speaking those who claim to have bad luck with something usually don't actually have worse luck than anyone else. You're saying you aren't tracking this, just going on feeling. This isn't our experience so If you want to convince us by using a known fallacy as evidence its not going to work.
OK let's break it down for the simple around here.
This isn't about losing. This isn't about bad luck. I never said I was losing. Can you read?
AGAIN FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME -
If you play the same deck long enough, you will notice a pattern of hitting a counter to that deck repeatedly. If you switch to another deck, you rarely see that counter deck.
Got it now? This isn't difficult. It goes in line with Blizzard wanting a 50% winrate. Duh der Do YoU unDerStand NoW?
Let's set aside the fact that, once again, you rely on your impressions and memories, rather than actual statistics. As others have pointed out, that's inherently flawed. Speaking as someone who has been playing this game for years, I've NEVER seen the pattern you describe. Sure, sometimes you create a new deck and your first few matches are hard counters, but that's to be expected if you have any understanding of statistics. (Especially if one of the most popular decks is heavily favored against yours.) In my experience, over time the trends revert back to the existing deck distribution.
What made me laugh was that you insist that DESPITE BEING MATCHED WITH COUNTER DECKS, you're not losing. Wow! You must be, like, the best HS player on the planet!! You're being matched (by the evil lizard people running Blizzard) with decks that hard counter yours and STILL you come out on top.
You, sir, are the greatest. Can I have your autograph?
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Fine. I'll start using a deck tracker and report my findings. I'll need a couple of days.
Wait a minute, the earth is NOT flat???
Unless you want to define rigging as "I can't play versus ALL the players", then it is not rigged.
MMR doesn't say you can win only 50%, it only groups players of equal rating together because stomping rank 50 beginners is just as boring as getting stomped by top 10 legend players. So the result is that you face players of roughly equal skill level and guess how often you win versus equally skilled players: about 50%.
So if you think that excluding basically predetermined games is rigging, then yes, any game using rating is rigged.
There you go my lovely folks, my humble statistics from Stormwind launch to today, looks like no tempering done.
Nice try - but I can clearly see you're a person that uses photoshop! This is doctored to try to disprove the crazy theories!
Gotta get up preeeetty early to pull one over on me. I had my wheaties and bleach this morning.
Do you have the data yet? I believe everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting.
Nope I lied.
I'm stunned. I was soooooo sure you were about to blow the cover off this whole conspiracy. Turns out, you're just a troll.
Oh boy. You sure got me there. What do I do to counter such a retort from the extreme Blizzard fan?
Or you could just play the fucking game with a single deck for about 50 matches, then switch decks to counter decks that give you trouble and count the number of times you face that deck again. I mean it happens to everyone.
Looks boringly normal. Could be interesting if you can see the numbers before and after the big shaman nerf. He surely was very popular before but now I don't see a lot.
Edit: The warrior data might be the only weird one. I assume that you mostly played W after nerfs but where are all the aggro druids? Maybe you were just on the right end of the ladder?
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter when Hearthstone is a dying piece of shit.
Do you have data on that too? Or is it just obvious again?
I guess this is the third salt thread now.
Since that's everyone's favourite reason to visit Hearthpwn - everyone! Get in here!
...
...
Man, I just hate it when the game is rigged and it makes me feel bad, but I keep playing because I can't control myself. Damn it Blizzard! This is your fault!
You're right it is anecdotal and pseudoscientific. Psychologically speaking those who claim to have bad luck with something usually don't actually have worse luck than anyone else. You're saying you aren't tracking this, just going on feeling. This isn't our experience so If you want to convince us by using a known fallacy as evidence its not going to work.
From launch I started of playign Quest Mage and very quickly switched to Rush Warrior when Robes of Protection started showing up a lot, played some matches with Buff Paladin to not burn out on the decks I had, dropped those when Quest Shaman became popular because Warrior was having some trouble with it, I pick up Quest Shaman itself for the legend push, on new season I started playing Astral Druid, while having stray matches with Quest Mage, Shaman, Elemental Shaman and Tempo DH. I posted my screenshot when Aggro Druid was picking up steam, now it's everywhere and I'm playing it too.
OK let's break it down for the simple around here.
This isn't about losing. This isn't about bad luck. I never said I was losing. Can you read?
AGAIN FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME -
If you play the same deck long enough, you will notice a pattern of hitting a counter to that deck repeatedly. If you switch to another deck, you rarely see that counter deck.
Got it now? This isn't difficult. It goes in line with Blizzard wanting a 50% winrate. Duh der Do YoU unDerStand NoW?
The bad luck I was referring to translates to your apparent track record of getting matched against a counter. This pattern your talking about isn't experienced by us. You'd have to present evidence to convince us its real. You don't see how this is an issue?
Let's set aside the fact that, once again, you rely on your impressions and memories, rather than actual statistics. As others have pointed out, that's inherently flawed. Speaking as someone who has been playing this game for years, I've NEVER seen the pattern you describe. Sure, sometimes you create a new deck and your first few matches are hard counters, but that's to be expected if you have any understanding of statistics. (Especially if one of the most popular decks is heavily favored against yours.) In my experience, over time the trends revert back to the existing deck distribution.
What made me laugh was that you insist that DESPITE BEING MATCHED WITH COUNTER DECKS, you're not losing. Wow! You must be, like, the best HS player on the planet!! You're being matched (by the evil lizard people running Blizzard) with decks that hard counter yours and STILL you come out on top.
You, sir, are the greatest. Can I have your autograph?