I am currently climbing to legend in standard and have been trying to gain a better understanding of teching and how to counter other decks. So my current build includes a lot of AOE to stop aggressive decks like Taunt Druid and Face Hunter, which it has no trouble beating. However, when i face a Quest Mage or Warlock i end up with multiple dead cards in hand, which makes me lean toward adding anti-spell techs like Cult Neophyte and Robes of Protection. But once I commit to that, then i will leave myself open to board based decks once again, and that’s not even counting other archetypes like Garrote Rogue, which i’m assuming would require me to run something like Far Watch Post to counter. Basically, once I end up at diamond 5, i find myself unable to reliably climb as I can’t keep myself from running into decks which i’m not appropriately teching against. Is the answer running one of each tech card and just hoping everything lines up? Is that just going to be significantly worse and unreliable?
Honestly, tech cards are only good if you draw them. And if you tech against too many things, you're going to put yourself at a disadvantage against everything.
Best practice for me is to add a couple tech cards for the matchup I see the most (or have the hardest time against), and just do my best against everything else.
In theory, your deck should already have some answers to certain decks/playstyles... so the tech cards are there to help in the other matchups.
So, my advice is basically: review the strengths and weaknesses of your current deck, identify which matchup you'll have the easiest and hardest time with (not including any tech cards) and add tech cards to balance the harder matchup. But don't try to spread yourself too thin.
After reading the replies here and reconsidering my deck, i realized that some of the tech options i was considering, like Neophyte, simply delay the inevitable when it comes to decks who OTK you and even a card like Robes of Protection is subject to a spell damage boosted Fire Sale or Soul Rend, so it’s not exactly game winning. So i’ve decided instead to run additional threats to try and outpace those decks while still having some AOE to beat aggro reliably. I have not tested this build enough but my win rate against Garrote decks was almost 0% until now so, nowhere to go but up
Those are great points. My deck was not supposed to be full-on control but after subbing out cards to counter aggro it ended up being basically that. And although i can farm those sorts of decks, once the win streaks go away on ladder i reach a situation where i have a near 0% win rate against combo/OTK but i need an almost 100% win rate against aggro to come out net positive. And that’s if the distribution of decks and classes is even or favorable, which a lot of days it just wasn’t.
Xauriel has a point. But many cards are sort of meant to counter certain decks. AOE is a counter for certain play styles but are not considered tech cards due to their broad applicability.
If you run against spell decks I'd recommend crossroads and/or far watch post. This requires a boardcentric deck that has some resistance to aggro in itself, otherwise you might as well just try to be faster than them at bursting damage. I really like crossroads watch post, since it can make your board almost unkillable to certain decks and pretty much auto wins against non-aggro druid. If you look at funki monkis corrupt priest you see a heavy midrange deck with a little bit of anti aggro to counter hunter and watchpost for the others. The deck gets shafted by aggro druid but wins against enough different deck types to feel strong while being board centered. Garrote rogue and face hunter on the other hand are just trying to outrace all the other spell-centric burst/combo decks. BIG warrior can tank some decks burst/combo which allows some heavy plays, similar to the classic control warrior.
You don't need to tech anything. You need a deck with a higher win/rate than 60% and it would be an easy climb.
I know there are netdecks listed on here which hit those win percentages, but my goal is to hit legend with my own list without resorting to playing aggro. In the middle of last month I peaked at diamond one but it seems like deck lists have become much more refined since
You don't need to tech anything. You need a deck with a higher win/rate than 60% and it would be an easy climb.
I know there are netdecks listed on here which hit those win percentages, but my goal is to hit legend with my own list without resorting to playing aggro. In the middle of last month I peaked at diamond one but it seems like deck lists have become much more refined since
You can make your own list and have 60% more win rate. You don't need tech cards, if you need tech cards your list is bad, change it. Diamond 5 is not high. From diamond 5 to legend is harder Quite every deck is able to reach diamond 5.
You don't need to tech anything. You need a deck with a higher win/rate than 60% and it would be an easy climb.
I know there are netdecks listed on here which hit those win percentages, but my goal is to hit legend with my own list without resorting to playing aggro. In the middle of last month I peaked at diamond one but it seems like deck lists have become much more refined since
Playing your own deck, that you have designed and know how to play is an advantage. Your netdecking opponents are playing with an open decklist while yours is unknown to them. You have experience of playing against their deck, they have none playing against yours.
You don't need to tech anything. You need a deck with a higher win/rate than 60% and it would be an easy climb.
I know there are netdecks listed on here which hit those win percentages, but my goal is to hit legend with my own list without resorting to playing aggro. In the middle of last month I peaked at diamond one but it seems like deck lists have become much more refined since
You can make your own list and have 60% more win rate. You don't need tech cards, if you need tech cards your list is bad, change it. Diamond 5 is not high. From diamond 5 to legend is harder Quite every deck is able to reach diamond 5.
Can you explain what you mean here? I keep running into quest mages, like, all the time. Robes of Protection and Crossroads Watch Post will almost surely win these games if they are in my deck (and I draw them)... are you saying I shouldn't use them?
If I just blatantly ignore cards that can help me win games against the majority of my opponents, that seems wrong. Like the secret mage meta previously in wild - you don't needEater of Secrets, but if you get value from it almost every single game, then why not?
You don't need to tech anything. You need a deck with a higher win/rate than 60% and it would be an easy climb.
I know there are netdecks listed on here which hit those win percentages, but my goal is to hit legend with my own list without resorting to playing aggro. In the middle of last month I peaked at diamond one but it seems like deck lists have become much more refined since
You can make your own list and have 60% more win rate. You don't need tech cards, if you need tech cards your list is bad, change it. Diamond 5 is not high. From diamond 5 to legend is harder Quite every deck is able to reach diamond 5.
I agree that one can have a 60%+ win rate with their own list, that is what i’m trying to get to right now. I also said i was at diamond 1, not diamond 5. The reason i made this thread was because i am exploring strategies for that final stretch to legend. I understand the point people are making that tech cards wouldn’t bring my winrate up though
It makes sense to add some tech cards if (a) your deck has a very bad matchup that those tech cards can significantly improve and (b) you have a couple of flex spots in your deck. For example: Libram Paladin has a pretty good matchup spread overall, but gets destroyed by Quest Mage. Can't run Robes of Protection for obvious reasons, but it makes a lot of sense to add a Crossroads Watch Post and/or an Ogremancer in the deck to improve that matchup given that the deck only has 26-27 core cards.
On the other hand there is no tech card that makes sense in Quest Hunter
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I am currently climbing to legend in standard and have been trying to gain a better understanding of teching and how to counter other decks. So my current build includes a lot of AOE to stop aggressive decks like Taunt Druid and Face Hunter, which it has no trouble beating. However, when i face a Quest Mage or Warlock i end up with multiple dead cards in hand, which makes me lean toward adding anti-spell techs like Cult Neophyte and Robes of Protection. But once I commit to that, then i will leave myself open to board based decks once again, and that’s not even counting other archetypes like Garrote Rogue, which i’m assuming would require me to run something like Far Watch Post to counter. Basically, once I end up at diamond 5, i find myself unable to reliably climb as I can’t keep myself from running into decks which i’m not appropriately teching against. Is the answer running one of each tech card and just hoping everything lines up? Is that just going to be significantly worse and unreliable?
Honestly, tech cards are only good if you draw them. And if you tech against too many things, you're going to put yourself at a disadvantage against everything.
Best practice for me is to add a couple tech cards for the matchup I see the most (or have the hardest time against), and just do my best against everything else.
In theory, your deck should already have some answers to certain decks/playstyles... so the tech cards are there to help in the other matchups.
So, my advice is basically: review the strengths and weaknesses of your current deck, identify which matchup you'll have the easiest and hardest time with (not including any tech cards) and add tech cards to balance the harder matchup. But don't try to spread yourself too thin.
Tradeable cards are the only decent tech cards, and even those should be used sparingly.
Anything else will just tank your win rate, for exactly the reasons you state in your original post.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
After reading the replies here and reconsidering my deck, i realized that some of the tech options i was considering, like Neophyte, simply delay the inevitable when it comes to decks who OTK you and even a card like Robes of Protection is subject to a spell damage boosted Fire Sale or Soul Rend, so it’s not exactly game winning. So i’ve decided instead to run additional threats to try and outpace those decks while still having some AOE to beat aggro reliably. I have not tested this build enough but my win rate against Garrote decks was almost 0% until now so, nowhere to go but up
Use this as a rule of thumb, the less tech cards you need the better is your Deck.
To me it sounds like you are playing a control style deck. So dont bother with Quest mage and Garotte rogue. Just farm aggro. ;)
When your pocket meta is mostly OTK or Combo decks it's better to play something else before you tech in non synergetic crap.
I'd never recommend more then 2 tech cards in a Deck unless they fit into the concept.
Just my humble opinion
Those are great points. My deck was not supposed to be full-on control but after subbing out cards to counter aggro it ended up being basically that. And although i can farm those sorts of decks, once the win streaks go away on ladder i reach a situation where i have a near 0% win rate against combo/OTK but i need an almost 100% win rate against aggro to come out net positive. And that’s if the distribution of decks and classes is even or favorable, which a lot of days it just wasn’t.
You don't need to tech anything. You need a deck with a higher win/rate than 60% and it would be an easy climb.
Xauriel has a point. But many cards are sort of meant to counter certain decks. AOE is a counter for certain play styles but are not considered tech cards due to their broad applicability.
If you run against spell decks I'd recommend crossroads and/or far watch post. This requires a boardcentric deck that has some resistance to aggro in itself, otherwise you might as well just try to be faster than them at bursting damage. I really like crossroads watch post, since it can make your board almost unkillable to certain decks and pretty much auto wins against non-aggro druid. If you look at funki monkis corrupt priest you see a heavy midrange deck with a little bit of anti aggro to counter hunter and watchpost for the others. The deck gets shafted by aggro druid but wins against enough different deck types to feel strong while being board centered. Garrote rogue and face hunter on the other hand are just trying to outrace all the other spell-centric burst/combo decks. BIG warrior can tank some decks burst/combo which allows some heavy plays, similar to the classic control warrior.
I know there are netdecks listed on here which hit those win percentages, but my goal is to hit legend with my own list without resorting to playing aggro. In the middle of last month I peaked at diamond one but it seems like deck lists have become much more refined since
You can make your own list and have 60% more win rate. You don't need tech cards, if you need tech cards your list is bad, change it. Diamond 5 is not high. From diamond 5 to legend is harder Quite every deck is able to reach diamond 5.
Playing your own deck, that you have designed and know how to play is an advantage. Your netdecking opponents are playing with an open decklist while yours is unknown to them. You have experience of playing against their deck, they have none playing against yours.
Can you explain what you mean here? I keep running into quest mages, like, all the time. Robes of Protection and Crossroads Watch Post will almost surely win these games if they are in my deck (and I draw them)... are you saying I shouldn't use them?
If I just blatantly ignore cards that can help me win games against the majority of my opponents, that seems wrong. Like the secret mage meta previously in wild - you don't need Eater of Secrets, but if you get value from it almost every single game, then why not?
I agree that one can have a 60%+ win rate with their own list, that is what i’m trying to get to right now. I also said i was at diamond 1, not diamond 5. The reason i made this thread was because i am exploring strategies for that final stretch to legend. I understand the point people are making that tech cards wouldn’t bring my winrate up though
It makes sense to add some tech cards if (a) your deck has a very bad matchup that those tech cards can significantly improve and (b) you have a couple of flex spots in your deck. For example: Libram Paladin has a pretty good matchup spread overall, but gets destroyed by Quest Mage. Can't run Robes of Protection for obvious reasons, but it makes a lot of sense to add a Crossroads Watch Post and/or an Ogremancer in the deck to improve that matchup given that the deck only has 26-27 core cards.
On the other hand there is no tech card that makes sense in Quest Hunter