We already know that mercs PvE exp will = Duels, BGs, and Arena and PVP will = Ranked Standard/Wild
We already know? Source?
What we could see in some YT videos is that mercs PVE exp = current PVE xp (according to HS Mathematics 170 xp/hour but it seems to me that its closer to 100-120 xp/hour) and about mercs PVP we dont know anything but its safe to assume that its gonna be equal to duels/bgs/arena xp.
There is no balance concern about the amount of gold available through Mercs, because gold is cash, so it’s never unfair to give people more gold, because it just makes the game less expensive.
Making the game less expensive IS a concern because it affects Blizzard's bottom line.
The goal of Blizzard is to make X amount of dollars and the game is balanced around that.
Introducing another mode that increases gold income, will result in changes to keep it equal but it will also set the expectation that you need to complete these new gold resources or you are missing out. Thus creating pressure on players that don't want to play Mercs.
If they burn the game down and piss off the community that hurts the bottom line. Charging as much as possible doesn’t necessarily earn the most money because a lot of players will bounce if the game tries to soak them too much. Hearthstone earns more than Raid: Shadow Legends even though Raid: Shadow Legends pretty much asks you to spend $10,000 on it.
You are saying as if 230 USD on a game is nothing. That may be depending on your wallet, but look at the market, for that money you can get 3 new triple A games of your liking and have 30 USD leftover. As a value proposition Hearthstone pricing is just abysmally poor.
We already know that mercs PvE exp will = Duels, BGs, and Arena and PVP will = Ranked Standard/Wild
We already know? Source?
What we could see in some YT videos is that mercs PVE exp = current PVE xp (according to HS Mathematics 170 xp/hour but it seems to me that its closer to 100-120 xp/hour) and about mercs PVP we dont know anything but its safe to assume that its gonna be equal to duels/bgs/arena xp.
1. First of all, if upgrades and packs are going to cost gold, then Mercenaries needs to generate gold above and on top of what players earn from other modes. That doesn’t mean adding Mercenaries quests to the regular daily Hearthstone quest pool, it means separate quests with distinct rewards for playing mercenaries. If Mercenaries runs on Mercenaries-exclusive currency, then Mercenaries quests can award those currencies, but if Mercs is going to run on gold, and its pack-system looks like it will, then it needs to pay out gold. If Blizzard is hoping players will substantially increase their spending into what it now apparently views as a card-game platform, then it needs to substantially increase free rewards.
2. The per-hour pass experience needs to be brought in line at least with Battlegrounds. It’s understandable if Ranked Hearthstone has reward incentives to get casuals to play ranked, but this mode can’t trail others in value for time spent if it is going to be successful.
3. Frankly, if Blizzard wants to extend goodwill, it should straight up cut the price for the preorders and give extra rewards to anyone who preordered before the price cut. Legends of Runeterra is coming from Blizzard’s most direct competitor, and it’s a lot less expensive to play, with regular players getting access to effectively all cards for free. Hearthstone doesn’t necessarily need to be as cheap as Runeterra, but it’s a bad look to come in with new ways to spend a lot of money when the base product is being undercut by a competitor. Hearthstone is not Raid Shadow Legends, but it would still be nice if it was more like Runeterra in its monetization strategies. This is a very expensive game to keep up with, and prohibitive to return to after a break, and Blizzard should be thinking about how to relieve that, rather than trying to get hundreds more dollars per year from players.
4. Mercenaries rewards should be added to the Tavern Pass, but they should be in addition to, rather than replacing, all the stuff we’re getting for standard Hearthstone and other modes. Players of other modes should not feel that they’re losing any value because of Mercenaries. Taking this up should mean more stuff rather than draining your resources from other modes.
The majority of Blizzard customers and Hearthstone players don't write on Reddit or HearthPwn, the need to "save" the mode is imaginative. It may very well be that Blizzard got all expenses covered by the first wave of preorders, we simply don't know.
1. You are offering to disbalance the whole Hearthstone economy, by creating additional gold quests within Mercenaries you are soft-FORCING every F2P\budget Hearthstone player to grind those even if they dislike the mode and Blizzard will have to make constructed more expensive to compensate their losses. Awful, awful, awful idea.
2. If, and only if, Mercenaries take an unreasonable amount of gold to upgrade the camp. Otherwise, this amount of XP may be enough to upgrade the camp at a reasonable pace
3. Don't teach professionals how to do marketing, especially when you have no idea how many preorders are already sold. Also, don't tell a corporation "please, make less money to make me happier."
4. I will be amazed if this won't be the case for the next reward tracks. I expect roughly the same amount of gold, roughly the same amount of Hearthstone packs and arena\duels tickes, etc. Plus few mercenary packs here and there, a mercenary hero or two, mercenary coins, etc.
more weak points, what an ironic name.
If mercenaries rewards are being included in the reward track, then they are defacto reducing the reward track for HS only players
By requiring gold for mercenaries and not offering a significant way to generate the gold necessary to play mercenaries, they are reducing the available gold for HS and thus trying to pressure people to spend more to keep up their collection.
And your little rant about not telling a corporation what to do is hilarious. Of course customers tell the company what they want from the company, to think any other way is insanity.
1. Merc packs and coins aren't as good as gold, which is the same as cash. Gold can be used on future releases, and current-set packs and currencies cannot. If the packs cost gold and the camp upgrades cost gold, then the mode needs to pay out gold. Playing this mode shouldn't leave you with fewer free resources to allocate to regular Hearthstone.
The mode pays out gold in the same way constructed pays out gold -- via Rewards Track XP. If you don't want to spend that on Mercenaries packs, no one is going to force you.
Blizzard spent a lot of resources developing Mercenaries, so it's not out of line for them to ask players to contribute a little gold to upgrade the Village. If you don't want to do that, you shouldn't be playing Mercenaries anyway. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and this attitude that every part of every game mode should be handed to you on a silver platter is absolutely juvenile.
As for the negative response on Reddit, I don't see how that matters one bit. The vast majority of players with even the slightest bit of interest are still going to try it because it's free. Literally nothing else matters, so there's no need to "salvage" anything. If it turns out not to be fun, or it if costs too much gold, or whatever else may be wrong with it -- that will be the time to salvage it. Right now, it's just time to wait patiently for the launch so we can judge it for what it is, not what a bunch of haters assume it will be.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
But what about Blizzard's obligations towards people who have played the various modes of Hearthstone most days for years but who detest the company, the developers, and indeed the game itself and who would never under any circumstances be customers?
Isn't it about time those people got something back?
If mercenaries rewards are being included in the reward track, then they are defacto reducing the reward track for HS only players
By requiring gold for mercenaries and not offering a significant way to generate the gold necessary to play mercenaries, they are reducing the available gold for HS and thus trying to pressure people to spend more to keep up their collection.
And your little rant about not telling a corporation what to do is hilarious. Of course customers tell the company what they want from the company, to think any other way is insanity.
1) False. Including mercenaries rewards in the reward track doesn't mean that anything needs to be removed from it. This is actually just a stupid assumption
2) And who said there will be no significant ways to earn gold in Mercs? Earn XP in Mercs, get gold, spend it in Mercs. It is that simple. Oh, you want to play Mercs, get enough gold for everything in there AND get more gold for regular Hearthstone while playing less Hearthstone... Nah, Blizzard won't do this.
3) Don't mix up "I want this product to be that or this" which is reasonable and "I want you to earn less and sell the same product cheaper for no reason but my wishes" which is not. And OP wasn't talking to Blizzard as a customer, he is teaching them how to sell games
2) And who said there will be no significant ways to earn gold in Mercs? Earn XP in Mercs, get gold, spend it in Mercs. It is that simple. Oh, you want to play Mercs, get enough gold for everything in there AND get more gold for regular Hearthstone while playing less Hearthstone... Nah, Blizzard won't do this.
3) Don't mix up "I want this product to be that or this" which is reasonable and "I want you to earn less and sell the same product cheaper for no reason but my wishes" which is not. And OP wasn't talking to Blizzard as a customer, he is teaching them how to sell games
First of all, If Blizz wants people to buy 100+ Merc packs at the same cash/gold price as Hearthstone packs and the only source of gold for Mercs is that it awards pass XP at the same rate as Battlegrounds, that's going to be unacceptable to a large chunk of the community. I don't even understand why you would defend that practice.
Second, Blizzard ought to know what the community expects from them, and maybe they do need some advice on how to sell their games. They aren't exactly on a hot streak right now. Mercenaries looks like fun to me, and I am excited about it, but Blizzard did an awful job announcing it, and people are really angry about how it might be monetized. If Blizzard goes full gacha, they're not really Blizzard anymore.
First of all, If Blizz wants people to buy 100+ Merc packs at the same cash/gold price as Hearthstone packs and the only source of gold for Mercs is that it awards pass XP at the same rate as Battlegrounds, that's going to be unacceptable to a large chunk of the community. I don't even understand why you would defend that practice.
Second, Blizzard ought to know what the community expects from them, and maybe they do need some advice on how to sell their games. They aren't exactly on a hot streak right now. Mercenaries looks like fun to me, and I am excited about it, but Blizzard did an awful job announcing it, and people are really angry about how it might be monetized. If Blizzard goes full gacha, they're not really Blizzard anymore.
1) I keep seeing this assumption that it will be impossible to progress in Mercenaries without playing regular Hearthstone. We don't know prices for town upgrades but it will be the most stupid if it won't be possible to afford those+some packs (if you want them) from gold earned within Mercenaries.
2) Yes. Blizzard wants to have some players that want to buy packs, hundreds of them. They need to make money, you know?. If you have two games and you want to play both you have to pay two times more. Either in cash or in F2P grind. Many people here want a new game that takes time to develop to be free (or better - give free resources for Hearthstone) only because it is inside Hearthstone client. I suspect that the playerbase is spoiled by Battlegrounds monetization which is beyond generous.
3) I see no full gacha. Packs are absolutely unnecessary to enjoy PVE part of the game, as long as you have one team, you can progress with it and they give you this team and only thing that may reasonably stall you Is gold for tavern buildings. For me, and, I am sure, for many other players buying packs for Mercs is like paying $10 backs to DnD GM for equipment or XP. PVP may be a different story, but being competitive in Hearthstone isn't cheap either.
Q: How long will it take to max my Mercenary’s level?
A: It depends on how you play. At launch, each Mercenary will be capped at level 30. Whenever you get a new Mercenary Card, that Mercenary will start at level 1. If you just stick with your starting team and play through Bounties as they unlock, we expect it to take less than 10 hours of gameplay to max level your starting Mercenaries. The Fighting Pit is also a pretty good source of experience, and can fully level a Party slightly quicker than playing through those first Bounties.
Later on, you’ll be able to stick new Mercenaries on the Bench and have them watch your more powerful Mercenaries take on tougher Bounties. Remember, all members of a Party get the same experience from fights, even if they don’t participate. Power-levelling like that could cut the leveling time drastically. Heroic Bounties offer 50% more experience than the normal versions, so things can get even quicker in late-game Mercenaries!
If you need only 10 hours of gameplay to max out a mercenary you want it will be quite easy to level up PVP "meta heroes" to the max, meaning a rather F2P environment. Now we need to learn how hard it is to craft a merc without opening it in packs
If you need only 10 hours of gameplay to max out a mercenary you want it will be quite easy to level up PVP "meta heroes" to the max, meaning a rather F2P environment. Now we need to learn how hard it is to craft a merc without opening it in packs
100 coins for rare, 300 for epic, 500 for legendary -- not all that bad, assuming the coin drops we saw in the videos were representative of the average rewards.
And each bounty has certain merc coins it is more likely to drop, so you can farm for a specific merc you want to unlock.
4. We currently get one daily quest and three weekly quests for Hearthstone. A couple of the weeklies are Battlegrounds exclusive, and one of the Weeklies is can be completed in any mode except main Hearthstone. Adding Mercs quests to this pool means that people who don't play Mercs will have to spend more rerolls, a scarce resource, rerolling their Mercs quests to get quests for other modes. I will say again that if Blizzard is asking us to significantly increase our spend on the Hearthstone platform for Mercenaries, then it needs to come with a similarly significant increase in the free cash-equivalent gold rewards for participating in this expensive new mode.
In my opinion the current quest system and 'rewards track' is allready a problem. And if Mercenary stuff are added it becomes worse for everyone who only plays 1 mode in this game. I think only a small part of players want to play all 3 modes. So a more NEUTRAL quest and ''rewards track'' is needed. In addition Mercenaries seems to become on the same level as normal Hearthstone in terms of gold investment for packs. So I dont think players really can afford to play booth on the same competive level. Mercenaries is pretty much a game on it's own with it's own economy, the fact that it has it's own upgradeable town and coin system just proves that. And even if no Mercenary quests get added in the main game. We will still end up with a group of players who only play Mercenaries. Just like we now have a group who only plays Battlegrounds. So in my opinion it needs a rework. And "seducing" players to play a game for quests rewards while they dont want to play it, will only make them hate that game more I think. Atleast that's how I experience it.
In my opinion the current quest system and 'rewards track' is allready a problem. And if Mercenary stuff are added it becomes worse for everyone who only plays 1 mode in this game. I think only a small part of players want to play all 3 modes. 1)So a more NEUTRAL quest and ''rewards track'' is needed. In addition Mercenaries seems to become on the same level as normal Hearthstone in terms of gold investment for packs. So I dont think players really can afford to play booth on the same competive level. Mercenaries is pretty much a game on it's own with it's own economy, the fact that it has it's own upgradeable town and coin system just proves that. And even if no Mercenary quests get added in the main game. We will still end up with a group of players who only play Mercenaries. Just like we now have a group who only plays Battlegrounds. So in my opinion it needs a rework. And "seducing" players to play a game for quests rewards while they dont want to play it, will only make them hate that game more I think. Atleast that's how I experience it.
1) I can agree that quests may be rather annoying to reroll if you don't play X mode but hard disagree on the rewards track. Rewards track should give more stuff for other game modes. Will, it hurt you if the rewards track will give exactly the same amount as the current track + some stuff for mercs? What we don't want is "This new reward track gives +10 merc packs and only -800 less gold, meaning you get more value!" and I am a bit worried that this may happen. I will be among the ones who raise a pitchfork should Blizzard 'improve' the track this way.
2) Some people manage to play Runterra and Hearthstone or MTG Arena and Hearthstone or any other "F2P" game plus Hearthstone. Yes, those people may have too much free time on their hands but it can be done. Let's be honest, Mercenaries and Battlegrounds aren't game modes. Mercenaries and Battlegrounds are different games. Also, who said about playing games on same competetive level? I am not a big fan of Battlegrounds, too APMy and tilt-inducing for my tastes. But I do enjoy playing few matches of it sometimes and getting few pieces of gold for this is a good thing. Mercs will be the same for many players. Game to enjoy casually sometimes while still getting some free resources for their favorite game.
1) I can agree that quests may be rather annoying to reroll if you don't play X mode but hard disagree on the rewards track. Rewards track should give more stuff for other game modes. Will, it hurt you if the rewards track will give exactly the same amount as the current track + some stuff for mercs? What we don't want is "This new reward track gives +10 merc packs and only -800 less gold, meaning you get more value!" and I am a bit worried that this may happen. I will be among the ones who raise a pitchfork should Blizzard 'improve' the track this way.
I don't see any reason why the Reward Track should give anything but gold, which should be fungible in ANY mode (including BGs, where it mostly isn't). It's not a reward if it's something you don't want or won't use.
Other-mode rewards in individual promotional quests, such as the ones at the launch of Mercenaries, are totally fine, of course.
At launch, most Daily and Weekly Quests will not be compatible with Mercenaries. The only Quests that will be able to be completed in Mercenaries will be those that require you to win games in any mode, and those that require you to take a certain number of turns. In future patches, we will be fixing the Quests that are not working properly, as well as possibly making new Daily and Weekly Quests or adjusting the language of certain existing Quests to include Mercenaries.
Hm, yet another reasonable assumption that quests will be completable in Mercenaries seems to be true... I am quite amazed that Blizzard fails to do so at launch but... Small Indie Company
Iskar is my source:
https://twitter.com/IksarHS/status/1433826071263137800?s=20
If they burn the game down and piss off the community that hurts the bottom line. Charging as much as possible doesn’t necessarily earn the most money because a lot of players will bounce if the game tries to soak them too much. Hearthstone earns more than Raid: Shadow Legends even though Raid: Shadow Legends pretty much asks you to spend $10,000 on it.
You are saying as if 230 USD on a game is nothing. That may be depending on your wallet, but look at the market, for that money you can get 3 new triple A games of your liking and have 30 USD leftover. As a value proposition Hearthstone pricing is just abysmally poor.
Well, for Blizzard to salvage Mercenaries, they need to release it first. :P
Thanks for the source! Information like this should have been presented in the reveal stream.
more weak points, what an ironic name.
If mercenaries rewards are being included in the reward track, then they are defacto reducing the reward track for HS only players
By requiring gold for mercenaries and not offering a significant way to generate the gold necessary to play mercenaries, they are reducing the available gold for HS and thus trying to pressure people to spend more to keep up their collection.
And your little rant about not telling a corporation what to do is hilarious. Of course customers tell the company what they want from the company, to think any other way is insanity.
The mode pays out gold in the same way constructed pays out gold -- via Rewards Track XP. If you don't want to spend that on Mercenaries packs, no one is going to force you.
Blizzard spent a lot of resources developing Mercenaries, so it's not out of line for them to ask players to contribute a little gold to upgrade the Village. If you don't want to do that, you shouldn't be playing Mercenaries anyway. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and this attitude that every part of every game mode should be handed to you on a silver platter is absolutely juvenile.
As for the negative response on Reddit, I don't see how that matters one bit. The vast majority of players with even the slightest bit of interest are still going to try it because it's free. Literally nothing else matters, so there's no need to "salvage" anything. If it turns out not to be fun, or it if costs too much gold, or whatever else may be wrong with it -- that will be the time to salvage it. Right now, it's just time to wait patiently for the launch so we can judge it for what it is, not what a bunch of haters assume it will be.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
But what about Blizzard's obligations towards people who have played the various modes of Hearthstone most days for years but who detest the company, the developers, and indeed the game itself and who would never under any circumstances be customers?
Isn't it about time those people got something back?
1) False. Including mercenaries rewards in the reward track doesn't mean that anything needs to be removed from it. This is actually just a stupid assumption
2) And who said there will be no significant ways to earn gold in Mercs? Earn XP in Mercs, get gold, spend it in Mercs. It is that simple. Oh, you want to play Mercs, get enough gold for everything in there AND get more gold for regular Hearthstone while playing less Hearthstone... Nah, Blizzard won't do this.
3) Don't mix up "I want this product to be that or this" which is reasonable and "I want you to earn less and sell the same product cheaper for no reason but my wishes" which is not. And OP wasn't talking to Blizzard as a customer, he is teaching them how to sell games
First of all, If Blizz wants people to buy 100+ Merc packs at the same cash/gold price as Hearthstone packs and the only source of gold for Mercs is that it awards pass XP at the same rate as Battlegrounds, that's going to be unacceptable to a large chunk of the community. I don't even understand why you would defend that practice.
Second, Blizzard ought to know what the community expects from them, and maybe they do need some advice on how to sell their games. They aren't exactly on a hot streak right now. Mercenaries looks like fun to me, and I am excited about it, but Blizzard did an awful job announcing it, and people are really angry about how it might be monetized. If Blizzard goes full gacha, they're not really Blizzard anymore.
1) I keep seeing this assumption that it will be impossible to progress in Mercenaries without playing regular Hearthstone. We don't know prices for town upgrades but it will be the most stupid if it won't be possible to afford those+some packs (if you want them) from gold earned within Mercenaries.
2) Yes. Blizzard wants to have some players that want to buy packs, hundreds of them. They need to make money, you know?. If you have two games and you want to play both you have to pay two times more. Either in cash or in F2P grind. Many people here want a new game that takes time to develop to be free (or better - give free resources for Hearthstone) only because it is inside Hearthstone client. I suspect that the playerbase is spoiled by Battlegrounds monetization which is beyond generous.
3) I see no full gacha. Packs are absolutely unnecessary to enjoy PVE part of the game, as long as you have one team, you can progress with it and they give you this team and only thing that may reasonably stall you Is gold for tavern buildings. For me, and, I am sure, for many other players buying packs for Mercs is like paying $10 backs to DnD GM for equipment or XP. PVP may be a different story, but being competitive in Hearthstone isn't cheap either.
Q: How long will it take to max my Mercenary’s level?
A: It depends on how you play. At launch, each Mercenary will be capped at level 30. Whenever you get a new Mercenary Card, that Mercenary will start at level 1. If you just stick with your starting team and play through Bounties as they unlock, we expect it to take less than 10 hours of gameplay to max level your starting Mercenaries. The Fighting Pit is also a pretty good source of experience, and can fully level a Party slightly quicker than playing through those first Bounties.
Later on, you’ll be able to stick new Mercenaries on the Bench and have them watch your more powerful Mercenaries take on tougher Bounties. Remember, all members of a Party get the same experience from fights, even if they don’t participate. Power-levelling like that could cut the leveling time drastically. Heroic Bounties offer 50% more experience than the normal versions, so things can get even quicker in late-game Mercenaries!
If you need only 10 hours of gameplay to max out a mercenary you want it will be quite easy to level up PVP "meta heroes" to the max, meaning a rather F2P environment. Now we need to learn how hard it is to craft a merc without opening it in packs
100 coins for rare, 300 for epic, 500 for legendary -- not all that bad, assuming the coin drops we saw in the videos were representative of the average rewards.
And each bounty has certain merc coins it is more likely to drop, so you can farm for a specific merc you want to unlock.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
In my opinion the current quest system and 'rewards track' is allready a problem. And if Mercenary stuff are added it becomes worse for everyone who only plays 1 mode in this game. I think only a small part of players want to play all 3 modes. So a more NEUTRAL quest and ''rewards track'' is needed. In addition Mercenaries seems to become on the same level as normal Hearthstone in terms of gold investment for packs. So I dont think players really can afford to play booth on the same competive level. Mercenaries is pretty much a game on it's own with it's own economy, the fact that it has it's own upgradeable town and coin system just proves that. And even if no Mercenary quests get added in the main game. We will still end up with a group of players who only play Mercenaries. Just like we now have a group who only plays Battlegrounds. So in my opinion it needs a rework. And "seducing" players to play a game for quests rewards while they dont want to play it, will only make them hate that game more I think. Atleast that's how I experience it.
1) I can agree that quests may be rather annoying to reroll if you don't play X mode but hard disagree on the rewards track. Rewards track should give more stuff for other game modes. Will, it hurt you if the rewards track will give exactly the same amount as the current track + some stuff for mercs? What we don't want is "This new reward track gives +10 merc packs and only -800 less gold, meaning you get more value!" and I am a bit worried that this may happen. I will be among the ones who raise a pitchfork should Blizzard 'improve' the track this way.
2) Some people manage to play Runterra and Hearthstone or MTG Arena and Hearthstone or any other "F2P" game plus Hearthstone. Yes, those people may have too much free time on their hands but it can be done. Let's be honest, Mercenaries and Battlegrounds aren't game modes. Mercenaries and Battlegrounds are different games. Also, who said about playing games on same competetive level? I am not a big fan of Battlegrounds, too APMy and tilt-inducing for my tastes. But I do enjoy playing few matches of it sometimes and getting few pieces of gold for this is a good thing. Mercs will be the same for many players. Game to enjoy casually sometimes while still getting some free resources for their favorite game.
I don't see any reason why the Reward Track should give anything but gold, which should be fungible in ANY mode (including BGs, where it mostly isn't). It's not a reward if it's something you don't want or won't use.
Other-mode rewards in individual promotional quests, such as the ones at the launch of Mercenaries, are totally fine, of course.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
At launch, most Daily and Weekly Quests will not be compatible with Mercenaries. The only Quests that will be able to be completed in Mercenaries will be those that require you to win games in any mode, and those that require you to take a certain number of turns. In future patches, we will be fixing the Quests that are not working properly, as well as possibly making new Daily and Weekly Quests or adjusting the language of certain existing Quests to include Mercenaries.
Hm, yet another reasonable assumption that quests will be completable in Mercenaries seems to be true... I am quite amazed that Blizzard fails to do so at launch but... Small Indie Company
I rather quit and focus more on MTG and Diablo 2 resurrected, than start playing a new game, that wants to find ways to get my $$.