My point is - this card was fine before all mana cheat cards and cards that generate coins etc were introduced. Now this card is essential in most OTK dekcs. And it would have been fine except now OTK decks kill you way faster then before. Approximately on turn 6-8. Talking about mainly Quest Mage, Garrote Rogue and Celestial Druid (a bit different story but falls into general problem pattern).
My main concern is not these OTK decks by themselves, but that OTK combo now is way easier and faster to complete. IMO one thing OTK decks are for is to beat control decks, now they can beat everything except maybe hyper aggresive aggro decks.
What do you thinks, guys? Gadgetzan Auctioneer is fine or has to be adressed somehow?
Yeah, guess the card should be changed for sure! In a world where aggro crushes you at turn 4-5 and combo decks draw their deck at turn 6, or play the quest reward at tunr 5-6...
This poor guy really should like be 10-10 Taunt and heal for 20 and cost like 4 mana to even see some play
I think similar as xskarma said, he will probably rotate out with the next core set change, but I've definitely seen enough of him.
Being one of the oldest surviving cards that still sees play should probably attest to his power level overall and there are way too many ways to make the effect too strong. I think that a neutral card draw engine is okay, if it's done correctly.
Example, in UiS they printed a neutral card draw legendary, Cornelius Roame. Excellent effect, fair stats, not abuseable (I think).
Now I know that our boy Gadgetzan Auctioneer requires other cards to draw, but the fact that there is no limit to his draw and the plethora of ways we can generate 0 cost spells in the current game raises the flags and I think it should be looked at. Remove from the game or change the effect to a battlecry or something that can't be used infinitely.
6-mana 5/5: Battlecry: After you cast your next spell, draw 2 cards.
My point is - this card was fine before all mana cheat cards and cards that generate coins etc were introduced. Now this card is essential in most OTK dekcs.
2014 just called and asked if you had seen Auctioneer + Coin + Prep + Shiv + Conceal?
Auctioneer just came back into fashion due to the draw mechanics and interactions with the decks you listed. He will be good in those circumstances and not used otherwise.
Similar threads and discussions pop up every now and then. If you search, you will find some longer threads from mid 2016 and late 2017.
This is not the first time Gadgetzan Auctioneer has been under this kind of scrutiny. He's caused problems in the past and will continue to do so. Whenever he has a slot in the meta it's always to increase the pace of decks that aren't fun to play against or to facilitate some obscure combo.
I love obscure combos, but maybe it's time he should be retooled.
My point is - this card was fine before all mana cheat cards and cards that generate coins etc were introduced. Now this card is essential in most OTK dekcs.
2014 just called and asked if you had seen Auctioneer + Coin + Prep + Shiv + Conceal?
Auctioneer just came back into fashion due to the draw mechanics and interactions with the decks you listed. He will be good in those circumstances and not used otherwise.
Similar threads and discussions pop up every now and then. If you search, you will find some longer threads from mid 2016 and late 2017.
You are right. But what's your opinion on the topic? Didn't quite get it
To me, the problem is mostly 0 cost spell and mana cheat, this dude is fine to me. They should prevent most of the spell to go below 1 cost and the problem would be solved imo.
My point is - this card was fine before all mana cheat cards and cards that generate coins etc were introduced. Now this card is essential in most OTK dekcs.
2014 just called and asked if you had seen Auctioneer + Coin + Prep + Shiv + Conceal?
Auctioneer just came back into fashion due to the draw mechanics and interactions with the decks you listed. He will be good in those circumstances and not used otherwise.
Similar threads and discussions pop up every now and then. If you search, you will find some longer threads from mid 2016 and late 2017.
You are right. But what's your opinion on the topic? Didn't quite get it
Well, the question is, is Auctioneer limiting design space by allowing cheap spells to chain and draw half the deck with no way to stop it? Or would cheap spells be used regardless? How necessary is Auctioneer? Would these decks work just the same with him removed?
I mean, yes he is limiting the design space somewhat by allowing too much card draw, but then cheap spells are being printed despite Auctioneer and those spells are also included in decks without Auctioneer. Some include him to cycle faster once they are on the finish line, but he is not necessary in those decks.
Of of the decks you mentioned, only Celestial druid is really running Auctioneer but they also have Fungal Fortunes. Mage has AI, Spring Water, Cram Session, rogue is using Field Contact.
I also feel that Auctioneer turns are burst turns part of the deck strategy. They get one turn maybe two to combo with Auctioneer, after that he gets cleared. The turns are often a tempo loss to assemble combo pieces, so they need to be timed right and you can punish decks on those turns or pressure them into delaying the turn. Sure, if you get combo'd next turn, you lose, but that would be also the case with other cards like Field Contact or discounted Spring Water turns.
So no, I don't think Auctioneer is too problematic.
I don't think OP meant that it's Auctioneer who is messing up the meta, but that the introduction of super easy combos makes him potentially harmful and slightly annoying.
What I like is to see how multiple people are just tired of the card. IMO we could use some tech or tank cards instead with all the combos we have.
I don't think OP meant that it's Auctioneer who is messing up the meta, but that the introduction of super easy combos makes him potentially harmful and slightly annoying.
What I like is to see how multiple people are just tired of the card. IMO we could use some tech or tank cards instead with all the combos we have.
I think it was a bad idea to get him back anyawys, makes any sort of cheap spell a concern in combo decks, specially since now there are coin generators, and so many mana cheats (not that warlock or mage need him atm, but still gets there every once in a hwile and I'm tired of his stupid goblin face).
I don't think he is a problem in a hearthstone which resembled the time when he was created. However, given the ease with which so many classes can reduce spells to 0 mana he certainly creates some problematic scenarios.
Maybe in wild he's a problem at the moment, but outside of druid I don't think any deck really uses him in standard
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Just wanna hear your opinions on Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
My point is - this card was fine before all mana cheat cards and cards that generate coins etc were introduced. Now this card is essential in most OTK dekcs. And it would have been fine except now OTK decks kill you way faster then before. Approximately on turn 6-8. Talking about mainly Quest Mage, Garrote Rogue and Celestial Druid (a bit different story but falls into general problem pattern).
My main concern is not these OTK decks by themselves, but that OTK combo now is way easier and faster to complete. IMO one thing OTK decks are for is to beat control decks, now they can beat everything except maybe hyper aggresive aggro decks.
What do you thinks, guys? Gadgetzan Auctioneer is fine or has to be adressed somehow?
He's part of the Core set now. It's super easy to remove him from that, no one is out any dust.
They can do it whenever they want, but I'm going to assume they would want to hold back with a change that far reaching til the Core rotation in 2022.
But I suspect he might be on their list of cards that they feel overstayed their welcome.
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Fun Fact: the hall of fame does not actually exist anymore.
What you're thinking of is: "not in the core set"
Yeah, guess the card should be changed for sure!
In a world where aggro crushes you at turn 4-5
and combo decks draw their deck at turn 6, or play the quest reward at tunr 5-6...
This poor guy really should like be 10-10 Taunt and heal for 20 and cost like 4 mana to even see some play
I agree that power/speed wise he's not a problem, but I'm tired of OTK/infinite draw-cards so let's just kick him out of standard :)
I think similar as xskarma said, he will probably rotate out with the next core set change, but I've definitely seen enough of him.
Being one of the oldest surviving cards that still sees play should probably attest to his power level overall and there are way too many ways to make the effect too strong. I think that a neutral card draw engine is okay, if it's done correctly.
Example, in UiS they printed a neutral card draw legendary, Cornelius Roame. Excellent effect, fair stats, not abuseable (I think).
Now I know that our boy Gadgetzan Auctioneer requires other cards to draw, but the fact that there is no limit to his draw and the plethora of ways we can generate 0 cost spells in the current game raises the flags and I think it should be looked at. Remove from the game or change the effect to a battlecry or something that can't be used infinitely.
6-mana 5/5: Battlecry: After you cast your next spell, draw 2 cards.
2014 just called and asked if you had seen Auctioneer + Coin + Prep + Shiv + Conceal?
Auctioneer just came back into fashion due to the draw mechanics and interactions with the decks you listed. He will be good in those circumstances and not used otherwise.
Similar threads and discussions pop up every now and then. If you search, you will find some longer threads from mid 2016 and late 2017.
Maybe "Whenever you cast a spell that costs (1) or more, draw a card" and make it like 5 mana or smth
This is not the first time Gadgetzan Auctioneer has been under this kind of scrutiny. He's caused problems in the past and will continue to do so. Whenever he has a slot in the meta it's always to increase the pace of decks that aren't fun to play against or to facilitate some obscure combo.
I love obscure combos, but maybe it's time he should be retooled.
You are right. But what's your opinion on the topic? Didn't quite get it
I think he is completely fine but I wouldn't mind a rotation/removal from core set either (hall of fame doesn't exist anymore).
And bring back Azure Drake for F sake, I know it's a bad card but it's the most iconic card of hearthstone imo and should be in every core set.
To me, the problem is mostly 0 cost spell and mana cheat, this dude is fine to me. They should prevent most of the spell to go below 1 cost and the problem would be solved imo.
You said it bro he's not really the problem. It's the mana cheats that really break him.
Well, the question is, is Auctioneer limiting design space by allowing cheap spells to chain and draw half the deck with no way to stop it? Or would cheap spells be used regardless? How necessary is Auctioneer? Would these decks work just the same with him removed?
I mean, yes he is limiting the design space somewhat by allowing too much card draw, but then cheap spells are being printed despite Auctioneer and those spells are also included in decks without Auctioneer. Some include him to cycle faster once they are on the finish line, but he is not necessary in those decks.
Of of the decks you mentioned, only Celestial druid is really running Auctioneer but they also have Fungal Fortunes. Mage has AI, Spring Water, Cram Session, rogue is using Field Contact.
I also feel that Auctioneer turns are burst turns part of the deck strategy. They get one turn maybe two to combo with Auctioneer, after that he gets cleared. The turns are often a tempo loss to assemble combo pieces, so they need to be timed right and you can punish decks on those turns or pressure them into delaying the turn. Sure, if you get combo'd next turn, you lose, but that would be also the case with other cards like Field Contact or discounted Spring Water turns.
So no, I don't think Auctioneer is too problematic.
He is fine.
Auctioneer isn't the problem. The problem is the mana cheat cards. Those need to be fixed. Auctioneer is just the canary in the coal mine.
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I don't think OP meant that it's Auctioneer who is messing up the meta, but that the introduction of super easy combos makes him potentially harmful and slightly annoying.
What I like is to see how multiple people are just tired of the card. IMO we could use some tech or tank cards instead with all the combos we have.
Exactly what i meant, good sir =)
I think it was a bad idea to get him back anyawys, makes any sort of cheap spell a concern in combo decks, specially since now there are coin generators, and so many mana cheats (not that warlock or mage need him atm, but still gets there every once in a hwile and I'm tired of his stupid goblin face).
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I don't think he is a problem in a hearthstone which resembled the time when he was created. However, given the ease with which so many classes can reduce spells to 0 mana he certainly creates some problematic scenarios.
Maybe in wild he's a problem at the moment, but outside of druid I don't think any deck really uses him in standard