We need to address this,i tried a deck with Gazlowe since people were claiming it should be good in rogue spell deck with mechs ,but it's a no go,then i tried something different like tempo deck with less spells and [card]Trade Prince Gallywix[/card],it seems a litle bit better but its not what i expected,so any thoughts and suggestions about this class or we let the rogue die slowly .
We need to address this,i tried a deck with Gazlowe since people were claiming it should be good in rogue spell deck with mechs ,but it's a no go,then i tried something different like tempo deck with less spells and [card]Trade Prince Gallywix[/card],it seems a litle bit better but its not what i expected,so any thoughts and suggestions about this class or we let the rogue die slowly .
I think that is the big sticking point. Rogue will have to evolve away from its spell-happy Miracle roots if it wants to thrive. That means adapting to a new play style.
I faced a very effective Mech-heavy tempo Rogue yesterday that absolutely cleaned my clock. I was not expecting the continued heavy pressure.
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Feel free to add me if you play on NA! iMPose#1429
Yeah I feel like rogue is the weakest class currently :(. We will have to wait until the initial chaos of GvG is over and blizz patches stuffs, if rogue still hasn't gotten any love then we could continue this imo.
honestly really hopeful for rogue pirate. It's the tempo deck that we've been trying to make for some time, except it's actually TEMPO. Though I think that the stable version won't be so dependent on the weapon since that's just a big old KICK ME sign.
Though honestly I'm trying Earthenator over Trade Prince. When a priest Deaths my big boy I'd rather have a 3/5 instead of a copy of Death and my opponent getting a free coin.
Also wondering how well a Miracle/mech deck will work. Instead of a deck full of spells, use a deck with mechs, low cost spells, and spare parts. Themechs will allow for an early and mid game while Auctioneer provides for the final push. Basically the TempoAuctioneer variant that was used in the past where Auctioneer ends the match rather than starts the offensive. I'd try it ,but that's a lot more GvG cards than I have at the moment.
honestly really hopeful for rogue pirate. It's the tempo deck that we've been trying to make for some time, except it's actually TEMPO. Though I think that the stable version won't be so dependent on the weapon since that's just a big old KICK ME sign.
Though honestly I'm trying Earthenator over Trade Prince. When a priest Deaths my big boy I'd rather have a 3/5 instead of a copy of Death and my opponent getting a free coin.
Also wondering how well a Miracle/mech deck will work. Instead of a deck full of spells, use a deck with mechs, low cost spells, and spare parts. Themechs will allow for an early and mid game while Auctioneer provides for the final push. Basically the TempoAuctioneer variant that was used in the past where Auctioneer ends the match rather than starts the offensive. I'd try it ,but that's a lot more GvG cards than I have at the moment.
Multiple people have suggested that for Avast! and I've finally gotten my hands on a Troggzor the Earthinator. I'll try it out in place of Gallywix and see how it works out. Biggest concern is that it's higher cost for worse stats. Maybe include both for a somewhat less aggressive version of the deck.
Pirate Rogue's been doing very well for me, though it's hard to say whether that will continue as the meta settles and people figure out what they're doing.
The fact that Gallywix has 8 health makes him one of the nastiest drops for rogue, and paired with Gazlow its pretty nice in tempo considering most of the time the opponent will use spells to take down gallywix to some degree. From the tempo-rogues i have faced prep-sprint seems to be pretty popular and devastating on the later turns when my options have been limited and theirs refreshed completely. The turn following sprint usually means i've lost board control.
Multiple people have suggested that for Avast! and I've finally gotten my hands on a Troggzor the Earthinator. I'll try it out in place of Gallywix and see how it works out. Biggest concern is that it's higher cost for worse stats. Maybe include both for a somewhat less aggressive version of the deck.
Well, my thinking is that the pirates are the damage and tempo is my defense. I'm NOT relying on my big boy to defend me. All the big boy does is take away magic options from my opponent or, at least, making sure that I can keep Tempo alive during the fight.
I don't have Gally so I can't say how it'll play, but if I saw that thing my instinct would be to hard remove it. Polymorph or execute in my hand won't help me much. Meanwhile, they get a coin on turn 7 and now they have more options than I do. If they ignore the Gally and AoE my board, I get...an AoE which won't help my win condition. The high health makes people less willing to fire damage spells at it even without it's ability. Lastly, Priests can use both SW:D and Shrink+SW:P OR Shrink and Madness and convert it with Recomb or Brewmaster, leaving you with a Madness which is....oookkk, and them with a coin.
Trogz at worst is a spell version of a harvest golem when hard removed. A fireball to him still means a 3/5 on the field doing more damage and punishing, somewhat, further spellcasting and to maintain tempo. If my opponent has enough on the board where I needed 8 health on him to survive then I'm losing anyway :P. Meanwhile my opponent gets nothing in return.
Both are good, but I'm theorizing that Trog might be slightly more useful in this deck.
And yes, Jeeves is awesome in this deck. It's very easy to keep clearing your hand and the synergy is wonderful and without having to rely on a combo (prep/sprint) or giving up a turn for it.
(sidenote, made a mistake once of putting jeeves and sprint in the same deck. Don't do that :P)
One big issue is the comback mechanic. It's POSSIBLE to comeback vs a few minions thanks to your weapon and cannon, but if there's a bigger board...uhhh. But that' may be just how the story goes. You prevent a big board the Tempo way: knocking them down before they get going.
I've been running a rogue mid-range deck with Gallywix and Troggzor. I can say that Troggzor has been more effective, especially against warriors. What good will a Shield Slam do me?
One thing I'm learning about this deck: it's amidrange deck. So far I'm finding that I've been using the +weapon buffs, backstabs, Agents, and what not mostly to hold to opponent down while I build up my forces. Then at around turn 5-6 I either get my assassin's blade or a pirate combo. At that point Trog or Jeeves comes in for the final blow.
As such, the deck would be weaker vs control naturally and should be strong vs aggro. I should be able to kick a zoo or hunter deck down then wallop them in the midgame. If I see a ton of control, that's when it's time to put the deck away and get something fast and furious
Thus why the Chow and Sap: to stabilize the early game and strengthen tempo. Sap I'm pretty sure about especialyl since it's cheap (and I don't have sabotage :P). Chow..well so far it's either showed up early game or not at all so he's been working. I didn't want to use Annoy since turn 2 is so blasted critical for this build between drawing a blade for barber/Raider/Corsair/Poison/killinganannoying1drop, coin SI, or the like that Annoy would just be delayed. I'll try it anyway later though.
Sidenote, really liking how it holds against mech at the moment as, in many cases, you'll have the 3 damage to deal with that blasted mechwarper. That and you can easily use Evis on minions without feeling like you're kiling your win condition.
I've been playing mostly with Rogue builds since GvG came out and so far my experience has shown 2 really effective deck builds. The first is Tempo/Aggro where you're dropping lots of dudes and refreshing the hand with Jeeves. Pirates is one option for this, but this obviously works better with a Mech centric design.
The second is Tempo/Midrange where you're still dropping lots of dudes, but your going for value trades to control the board and setup the Spell Shutdown plays of Loatheb, Trade Prince Gallywix, and Troggzor the Earthinator. In this version Sprint combined with some earlier card cycling like Azure Drake keeps your hand full. The finisher in this is actually Assassin's Blade and Tinker's Sharpsword Oil. I haven't tested Pirates in this style of deck yet, but the Mechs are working for me.
Tinker's Sharpsword Oil is an odd card and on it's surface seems like crap. However, although it's strictly "3" damage for 4, on Assassin's Blade it's up to 12 damage for 4 + the minion buff. Also, Blade Flurry allows Rogue the unique ability to use his weapon twice in a turn allowing for insane burst finishes.
I haven't pulled Gazlowe yet and don't have the dust for him, but from what I can theorize he'll work a lot like Archmage Antonidas does and be best in a Spare Parts deck so Tempo/Aggro Mech.
I've been playing mostly with Rogue builds since GvG came out and so far my experience has shown 2 really effective deck builds. The first is Tempo/Aggro where you're dropping lots of dudes and refreshing the hand with Jeeves. Pirates is one option for this, but this obviously works better with a Mech centric design.
The second is Tempo/Midrange where you're still dropping lots of dudes, but your going for value trades to control the board and setup the Spell Shutdown plays of Loatheb, Trade Prince Gallywix, and Troggzor the Earthinator. In this version Sprint combined with some earlier card cycling like Azure Drake keeps your hand full. The finisher in this is actually Assassin's Blade and Tinker's Sharpsword Oil. I haven't tested Pirates in this style of deck yet, but the Mechs are working for me.
Hmm, I'm noticing that the pirate deck seems to fit into the second model, Though it's less trading and more using weapons, spells, and cannons to kill minions while preserving the pirates.
Jeeves has helped so far, but I can go back to trying sprint and Azures. Jeeves' nice side is that he's cheaper and, thus, easier to keep tempo. However, I'm wondering if a sprint after a Loatheb or Earthenator play might be enough. I have had times when I've been forcd to make less optimal plays just to dump my hand.
Though this does mean I should get a second Southsea as this would mean getting the buff is crucial. I'll try it out later.
Southsea into Sharpsword Oil does sound like an OP play. I like it. Especially if you can follow it up with a Blade Flurry for a massive 17+ damage burst from the hand.
In my own deck the minion buff is incidental. If I can get it, great, but I'm more after the 3 damage on my weapon.
As other have said a mech tempo rogue can be fairly powerful. My biggest problem with it is card draw. It's almost entirely dependent on jeeves for that. You can even add some weapons and buffs in for good removal and face value.
I was trying to make tempo mech work with sprint and it just doesn't. I find I don't have the burst to finish most games and I eventually just run out of cards. I think I might not be aggressive enough.
I like the Jeeves idea, will give that a go. Nice thing about him is he is immune to Priest shenanigans (sure go ahead and steal him!)
You're right there, I played against a control warrior yesterday and lost because of all the armour gain. I could have won the following turn but still, hard to deal with all those heals/armour. But yea pray for jeeves or pray for an iron sensei to buff your minions out of aoe range >_>
I tried mech rogue and it works great if you go full aggro. I think other mech variants are slightly better though (Mage and Priest). I tried Mech aggro priest and it surprised the hell out of me. That's not for this thread though. I just wanted to add that like you I had tried midrange/tempo to no avail. It was good but not quite there. So on a whim I went full blown control. Surprised the crap out of me but it ended up really solid. Like others have already suggested I threw a Sprint in there. Trade Prince Gallywix really shines in bridging the gap from mid to late game. I'd post a decklist but it's still very much so a work in progress as I test everything I can but I have a lot of hope for control rogue at least.
Good luck out there, cheers!
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We need to address this,i tried a deck with Gazlowe since people were claiming it should be good in rogue spell deck with mechs ,but it's a no go,then i tried something different like tempo deck with less spells and [card]Trade Prince Gallywix[/card],it seems a litle bit better but its not what i expected,so any thoughts and suggestions about this class or we let the rogue die slowly .
Weapon rogue (early game tempo mechs, and lot of weapons/weaponbuffs) works for sure. Pirate rogue maybe.
I bring life and pffffffffffffff!
I think that is the big sticking point. Rogue will have to evolve away from its spell-happy Miracle roots if it wants to thrive. That means adapting to a new play style.
I faced a very effective Mech-heavy tempo Rogue yesterday that absolutely cleaned my clock. I was not expecting the continued heavy pressure.
Feel free to add me if you play on NA! iMPose#1429
Yeah I feel like rogue is the weakest class currently :(. We will have to wait until the initial chaos of GvG is over and blizz patches stuffs, if rogue still hasn't gotten any love then we could continue this imo.
uM0p3p!sddn
Also check out my new inspire majordomo mage! http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/114619-mystery-mage-inspire-rangnaros-freeze
honestly really hopeful for rogue pirate. It's the tempo deck that we've been trying to make for some time, except it's actually TEMPO. Though I think that the stable version won't be so dependent on the weapon since that's just a big old KICK ME sign.
Though honestly I'm trying Earthenator over Trade Prince. When a priest Deaths my big boy I'd rather have a 3/5 instead of a copy of Death and my opponent getting a free coin.
Also wondering how well a Miracle/mech deck will work. Instead of a deck full of spells, use a deck with mechs, low cost spells, and spare parts. Themechs will allow for an early and mid game while Auctioneer provides for the final push. Basically the TempoAuctioneer variant that was used in the past where Auctioneer ends the match rather than starts the offensive. I'd try it ,but that's a lot more GvG cards than I have at the moment.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Time to go tempo rogue. Get some spells, Violet Teacher, Sprint, Ogre Ninja, some legendaries, double Conceal Cold Blood for finish.
Multiple people have suggested that for Avast! and I've finally gotten my hands on a Troggzor the Earthinator. I'll try it out in place of Gallywix and see how it works out. Biggest concern is that it's higher cost for worse stats. Maybe include both for a somewhat less aggressive version of the deck.
Pirate Rogue's been doing very well for me, though it's hard to say whether that will continue as the meta settles and people figure out what they're doing.
The fact that Gallywix has 8 health makes him one of the nastiest drops for rogue, and paired with Gazlow its pretty nice in tempo considering most of the time the opponent will use spells to take down gallywix to some degree. From the tempo-rogues i have faced prep-sprint seems to be pretty popular and devastating on the later turns when my options have been limited and theirs refreshed completely. The turn following sprint usually means i've lost board control.
Well, my thinking is that the pirates are the damage and tempo is my defense. I'm NOT relying on my big boy to defend me. All the big boy does is take away magic options from my opponent or, at least, making sure that I can keep Tempo alive during the fight.
I don't have Gally so I can't say how it'll play, but if I saw that thing my instinct would be to hard remove it. Polymorph or execute in my hand won't help me much. Meanwhile, they get a coin on turn 7 and now they have more options than I do. If they ignore the Gally and AoE my board, I get...an AoE which won't help my win condition. The high health makes people less willing to fire damage spells at it even without it's ability. Lastly, Priests can use both SW:D and Shrink+SW:P OR Shrink and Madness and convert it with Recomb or Brewmaster, leaving you with a Madness which is....oookkk, and them with a coin.
Trogz at worst is a spell version of a harvest golem when hard removed. A fireball to him still means a 3/5 on the field doing more damage and punishing, somewhat, further spellcasting and to maintain tempo. If my opponent has enough on the board where I needed 8 health on him to survive then I'm losing anyway :P. Meanwhile my opponent gets nothing in return.
Both are good, but I'm theorizing that Trog might be slightly more useful in this deck.
And yes, Jeeves is awesome in this deck. It's very easy to keep clearing your hand and the synergy is wonderful and without having to rely on a combo (prep/sprint) or giving up a turn for it.
(sidenote, made a mistake once of putting jeeves and sprint in the same deck. Don't do that :P)
One big issue is the comback mechanic. It's POSSIBLE to comeback vs a few minions thanks to your weapon and cannon, but if there's a bigger board...uhhh. But that' may be just how the story goes. You prevent a big board the Tempo way: knocking them down before they get going.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I've been running a rogue mid-range deck with Gallywix and Troggzor. I can say that Troggzor has been more effective, especially against warriors. What good will a Shield Slam do me?
One thing I'm learning about this deck: it's amidrange deck. So far I'm finding that I've been using the +weapon buffs, backstabs, Agents, and what not mostly to hold to opponent down while I build up my forces. Then at around turn 5-6 I either get my assassin's blade or a pirate combo. At that point Trog or Jeeves comes in for the final blow.
As such, the deck would be weaker vs control naturally and should be strong vs aggro. I should be able to kick a zoo or hunter deck down then wallop them in the midgame. If I see a ton of control, that's when it's time to put the deck away and get something fast and furious
Thus why the Chow and Sap: to stabilize the early game and strengthen tempo. Sap I'm pretty sure about especialyl since it's cheap (and I don't have sabotage :P). Chow..well so far it's either showed up early game or not at all so he's been working. I didn't want to use Annoy since turn 2 is so blasted critical for this build between drawing a blade for barber/Raider/Corsair/Poison/killinganannoying1drop, coin SI, or the like that Annoy would just be delayed. I'll try it anyway later though.
Sidenote, really liking how it holds against mech at the moment as, in many cases, you'll have the 3 damage to deal with that blasted mechwarper. That and you can easily use Evis on minions without feeling like you're kiling your win condition.
That and I LOVE Trogzor.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Well I faced quite some MechRogues on EU ladder and they were quite powerful so I doubt Rogue is dead. Minion heavy mid range seems the way to go.
I've been playing mostly with Rogue builds since GvG came out and so far my experience has shown 2 really effective deck builds. The first is Tempo/Aggro where you're dropping lots of dudes and refreshing the hand with Jeeves. Pirates is one option for this, but this obviously works better with a Mech centric design.
The second is Tempo/Midrange where you're still dropping lots of dudes, but your going for value trades to control the board and setup the Spell Shutdown plays of Loatheb, Trade Prince Gallywix, and Troggzor the Earthinator. In this version Sprint combined with some earlier card cycling like Azure Drake keeps your hand full. The finisher in this is actually Assassin's Blade and Tinker's Sharpsword Oil. I haven't tested Pirates in this style of deck yet, but the Mechs are working for me.
Tinker's Sharpsword Oil is an odd card and on it's surface seems like crap. However, although it's strictly "3" damage for 4, on Assassin's Blade it's up to 12 damage for 4 + the minion buff. Also, Blade Flurry allows Rogue the unique ability to use his weapon twice in a turn allowing for insane burst finishes.
I anticipate some form of Preparation Weapon Rogue deck using Tinker's Sharpsword Oil and Sprint to ultimately be the new dominating non-aggro Mech Rogue deck.
I haven't pulled Gazlowe yet and don't have the dust for him, but from what I can theorize he'll work a lot like Archmage Antonidas does and be best in a Spare Parts deck so Tempo/Aggro Mech.
i'm getting beatened left and right by pirate rogue.
"Put your face in the light!" - Tirion Fordring
Hmm, I'm noticing that the pirate deck seems to fit into the second model, Though it's less trading and more using weapons, spells, and cannons to kill minions while preserving the pirates.
Jeeves has helped so far, but I can go back to trying sprint and Azures. Jeeves' nice side is that he's cheaper and, thus, easier to keep tempo. However, I'm wondering if a sprint after a Loatheb or Earthenator play might be enough. I have had times when I've been forcd to make less optimal plays just to dump my hand.
Though this does mean I should get a second Southsea as this would mean getting the buff is crucial. I'll try it out later.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Southsea into Sharpsword Oil does sound like an OP play. I like it. Especially if you can follow it up with a Blade Flurry for a massive 17+ damage burst from the hand.
In my own deck the minion buff is incidental. If I can get it, great, but I'm more after the 3 damage on my weapon.
As other have said a mech tempo rogue can be fairly powerful. My biggest problem with it is card draw. It's almost entirely dependent on jeeves for that. You can even add some weapons and buffs in for good removal and face value.
I was trying to make tempo mech work with sprint and it just doesn't. I find I don't have the burst to finish most games and I eventually just run out of cards. I think I might not be aggressive enough.
I like the Jeeves idea, will give that a go. Nice thing about him is he is immune to Priest shenanigans (sure go ahead and steal him!)
You're right there, I played against a control warrior yesterday and lost because of all the armour gain. I could have won the following turn but still, hard to deal with all those heals/armour. But yea pray for jeeves or pray for an iron sensei to buff your minions out of aoe range >_>
Hey Pal! Trade Prince Gallywix here!
I tried mech rogue and it works great if you go full aggro. I think other mech variants are slightly better though (Mage and Priest). I tried Mech aggro priest and it surprised the hell out of me. That's not for this thread though. I just wanted to add that like you I had tried midrange/tempo to no avail. It was good but not quite there. So on a whim I went full blown control. Surprised the crap out of me but it ended up really solid. Like others have already suggested I threw a Sprint in there. Trade Prince Gallywix really shines in bridging the gap from mid to late game. I'd post a decklist but it's still very much so a work in progress as I test everything I can but I have a lot of hope for control rogue at least.
Good luck out there, cheers!