(please read here first) DISCLAIMER(S) This is: 1)My personal opinion, so I'd love to hear some feedback AND what other cards you'd change (with how and why if you can/want to). 2)COMPLETELY UNRELATED to how strong they are. 3)FAR from all the cards I'd change, I'm just listing the more interesting ideas.
So (finally) here goes.
As the title implies this post is a list of card changes aimed at making some cards a bit more interesting and fun for both players while keeping (or sometimes increasing) their power.
Ignite THE CHANGE: becomes a 2 (or 3, Idk) mana spell that says "Deal 1 damage to an enemy, if it dies recast dealing +1 damage"(yes, it CAN go face, dealing 8 dmg if you kill the entire board with it,potentially even more) THE REASONING: Not only does this change speak more to the flavour of "igniting something that escalates into a gingantic wildfire" but also stops it from going infinite and being a single minded "point face till it stops glowing" which I'd describe as a monumental improvement in terms of being fun for both players.
Open the Waygate THE CHANGE: the requirement can stay the same (it may need to be changed though since the reward will fit a different playstyle). The reward, however, becomes Time Warp: still a 5 mana spell, now says "the next time you lose the game, turn back time instead". With "turn back time" meaning you discover the option to go back 1/2/3 (or more) turns. (turn counter still keeps going to avoid softlocks...yes, it does mean that if you die the turn after playing it you get it back in hand) THE REASONING: The idea was to make it an actually cool and unique card instead of a boring "you have 20/30 mana and minions you play with the first 10/20 have charge" OTK machine...while also keeping the time manipulation flavour.
The Demon Seed THE CHANGE: everything can stay the same (it may need to be easier/harder to complete) but the reward becomes "ALL damage you take is ALSO dealt to the opponent" THE REASONING: Even without the "fk fatigue" part of this card (which is its only real glaring design flaw, the rest is a powerlevel issue) the card has shown its incredible power and uninteractiveness, this change would keep the flavour and remove some of the stupidly insane offensive power for some defence as well, it would also make it more interactive as BOTH players have ways to react and play around this effect (though you are obviously at a quite monstrous advantage)
Archbishop Benedictus THE CHANGE: battlecry "each player shuffles a copy of their opponent's deck into their own" THE REASONING: With this change it would go from a near useless (exept vs REAL grindy control decks, where it's an autowin) fatigue delay bomb into absolute fking chaos that DOES have some use (namely pollutes the draw of faster decks), YESitwould make games way longer so I'm slightly more "iffy" about this one.
(As a final note I REALLY wanted to say something about Seek Guidance but I couldn't find ANY way to make it actually interesting as opposed to a stupidly cheap "win the game")
Your Open the Waygate change is without exaggerating the worst hearthstone related idea i have ever seen, you do realize you can very easily capture your opoonent in an endless time loop that only ends if one of you two concedes or you hit the 45/90 turn limit? Like, finish your quest, ingore board state and just go face, if they decide to kill your just turn back time 1-3 turns and repeat, until they eventually concede out of bordedom.
The only kind of deck that could reasonably get out of this is a control deck that can withstand 3 turns of pure "ignore verything, go face mode" and kill you on turn 4 after your quest is completed.
Sorry but no, id rather keep playing against old Time Warp.
Exept it's not even NEARLY as easy as you think, first of all you need to be confident you are able to kill your opponent in (max) 3 turns AFTER PLAYING A 5 MANA DO NOTHING(you can even up the cost if you really want to) or else you don't get it back in hand and bye bye timeloop, same goes if your opponent manages to stall for A SINGLE TURN more than you expect and then kill you...you got a second life but you aren't looping anyone. So this is a strong asset as it kind of forces your opponent to defend himself for a few turns (if you decide to just point face...which you don't have to) or just delay his lethal (aka, if you are defending instead of pointing face...you have a higher chance to survive). You are HEAVILY overestimating the potential to "break" this card...the only real problem to consider would be DEEP fatigue but by that point the turn limit is more or less already near AND it is still interactable by not attaking or even healing the opponent (and that's assuming the mage wasn't forced to play it earlier) Sorry but no, I'd rather NOT keep the old "lol me powerdraw like idiot--> me play some stuff--->me win with the only counterplay is...being killed by the opponent before this step"
Very interesting ideas. I love the flavor improvements. I think the warlock change is the most practical and likely to happen. Seek Guidance would have been more interesting as a shadow spell. Or even better, have Darkbishop Benedictus convert it into an alternate questline and Shadow spell with shadow Priest synergy at the start of the game (before his other effect triggers). Since people seem to want a direct counter to warlock quest, maybe the reward could be "all damage to your opponent from any source has lifesteal for your hero. Passive: Add a mind blast to your hand at the end of each turn."
"I want to nerf these cards into oblivion or making them absurdly toxic", heartpwn edition.
No one would ever play ignite, ever again, in the history of the game. Just say what you actually want "Ignite should be deleted", that's easier, without any nonsense "omg I'm so cute and artsy look at this funky change I made that will result in the card never being used again". It's not difficult to do mate and it's disingenuous as all hell.
No one would ever play the warlock quest either. Because guess what, the whole point is damaging yourself the whole game in order to redirect damage to your opponent. Which is also why aggro decks are good against questlocks, because if you do the opponent's job it kind of helps them kill you. Again, just say "I don't want anyone to ever play this card ever again", stop beating around the bush so much.
I don't even want to go into the waygate change because it'll never be implemented to begin with so it's useless to discuss. It'd either stay unplayed as it is now (which is good) or be entirely broken, which would be far from good.
Thankfully the meta isn't slow enough (probably won't ever be again outside of idk...bronze and silver ranks) for your benedictus change to affect anyone because wow, what a horrid change that'd be. If you want to play stupid cards play them for your own sake, kindly don't force your opponent to participate in this idiotic memery.
1) I HIGHLY doubt anyone would ever ignore a Defile that ALSO does face dmg.
2)that is not true...no one would play the SAME quest warlock that we have now but I believe you missed the "ALL dmg" part of the effect...take a second to think about the implications b4 you start dismissing it as "useless".
3)just so you know... "no" is NOT an argument, anyway...you can read my reply to the first guy that responded if you want a decent breakdown on why it wouldn't be either useless nor broken.
4)Well I DID say it was the one change I was iffy about...still...it's a 7 mana do nothing, if you don't want to meme and you just want to tryhard BUT if you (while tryharding with whatever megafast deck you want) let the opponent play it for free then...you kinda deserve to get memed on...bottom right is always there anyway.
The cards in question were already interesting, though. Why not just imagine new cards you personally find interesting instead of tinkering with existing ones?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Ignite THE CHANGE: becomes a 2 (or 3, Idk) mana spell that says "Deal 1 damage to an enemy, if it dies recast dealing +1 damage"(yes, it CAN go face, dealing 8 dmg if you kill the entire board with it,potentially even more) THE REASONING: Not only does this change speak more to the flavour of "igniting something that escalates into a gingantic wildfire" but also stops it from going infinite and being a single minded "point face till it stops glowing" which I'd describe as a monumental improvement in terms of being fun for both players.
I was mainly suggesting the possibility of enabling the questline to work with Darkbishop. The questline flavor naturally has a "holy" feel, so it wouldn't really make sense to just add a shadow tag. You could change the mulligan/start of game effect order, but that might be a clunky change. Alternatively, you could build on the flavor of the Darkbishop card and "corrupt" the questline if Darkbishop is in your deck to not only make it a shadow spell, but activate an entirely different questline that is more oriented towards the Shadow Priest playstyle (more aggressive). But I guess even then you would have to manipulate the order of start of game effects
The cards in question were already interesting, though. Why not just imagine new cards you personally find interesting instead of tinkering with existing ones?
well that's what I said in the disclaimer:
I personally don't find the design/playstyle of any of those cards interesting
I like this idea as a thought experiment, but I agree with the earlier poster that said your suggestions seem somewhat disingenuous. These changes would all make the card completely unplayable IMO, except the Benedictus one, and that one would just make the card... even more pointless than it already is?
The proposed change to Ignite would make it nothing like Defile. First off, Defile is an AoE (making it easier to chain), and more importantly there is no randomness to the with that card. This basically needs you to have and hit (in order) a 1 health, 2 health etc. minion on your opponent side to catch momentum. This would be more akin to Perpetual Flame with a much bigger failure rate.
The change you suggested for Open the Waygate sounds just as toxic as the current one. It just prolongs the game unnecessarily most games, and has to be the worst card in the game to lose against if your opponent actually turns the game around after using it? After he's already "won"? Also, why build your entire deck around something that isn't in any perceivable way an actual wincon? It's just a not-lose-on-the-spot card.
The Demon Seed would be wholly unplayable against aggro with your change, most midrange probably have a favorable matchup against it unless they can drop early giants, and the slowest matchups are probably still a win. It just makes the quest way, way worse. I don't get how that makes the card more interesting.
As I already said, I don't agree with these takes:
(Ignite) 1) Who lied to you? the damage would ALWAYS be targeted, yes, it's not as easy to chain as Defile but it can be used to clean some boards (since it's cheap it can be used after another boardclear) AND get some face dmg in (also I made as a "quest mage card" so it benefits from spell dmg quite a lot), I also considered letting it target anything so you can blow up your minions as well if you need to increase the dmg (yea...thinking back at it..that's probably a decent idea)
(Open the Waygate) 2)It wouldn't be NEARLY as toxic as the current one, I'd place it into the ballpark of something like Ice Block a.k.a "it's only toxic if you are under extreme pressure to end the game because you know your opponent WILL win without you being able to do anything about it if he doesn't die NOW". The point of the card is exactly to give the player a second chance after knowing what the opponent has at his disposal, still the opponent ALSO knows it's been played so he can strategize on how to win in 2 different ways to "trick" you...WAY more interactive than the current version of this card. Your last point is why I said it probably needs a different requirement, one that isn't THAT big of a deckbuilding restriction.
(The Demon Seed) 3)Before I argue I'd like to remind you that I DID say "it may need to be easier/harder to complete". With this change it would only require you to change playstyle a bit and juggle self harm and healing a bit more (which warlock has TONS of either so not like it's that big of a problem),slowing down the quest a bit for more safety is exactly what can turn the aggro matchup around (to an extent). Also you are ignoring the fact that, if at ANY point after you played the reward, you happen to be higher health than your aggro opponent...they instalose (offset by the fact that it's VERY difficult to make happen) so...NO it would NOT be unplayable vs aggro...quite the opposite actually, I'd argue it may even be better... what ACTUALLY changes is that the card is now something both players can interact with AND it's less polarizing.
BONUS You are underestimating the mayhem that can be caused by this new Archbishop Benedictus, you shut down higlander AND get some of their own synergy cards, you pollute the draw of faster decks (offset by the fact that you played a 7 mana do nothing vs something that wants to kill you by turn 6)...I'm a bit iffy about it as the games would drag on quite a lot but at least this time they aren't decided by the better Archivist Elysiana rolls. Also all this was meant to do is let him STAY a meme card, just taking away the toxic "I win fatigue" part
1) No one lied to me, the proposed card text in your original post would literally make it random targets after the first kill - no recast card in the game lets you select the target beyond the first casting. To target each reiteration of the spell you would have to make it an Echo-spell, putting a 0-mana copy back in your hand after you kill a target. I suppose that would make it a (potentially) better Perpetual Flame, and it could be interesting effect wise. I still don't think there's anything wrong with the current version, though.
2)Ice Block has had more than its share of haters over the year, especially every time a new Freeze Mage variant rears it head. Block can be countered by a variant of tech cards, and it's mostly used to squeeze in that extra turn before you can either secure the win or throw down Reno. Your suggested variation can't be countered, and doesn't allow the mage to set up a winning play (other than cases where he's grievously misplayed his cards or misread his opponent's). How is that more interactive?
3) In no way does this give the warlock a better matchup against aggro - in my opinion, it makes every aggro deck an autoloss for questlock. Finishing the quest on a higher health total than an aggro opponent as quest warlock is a pipe dream - it's not just that it's hard, it's that it doesn't happen. You're doing six (lifesteal) damage through your quest completions, and that's mostly it. And how is it more interactive for your opponent? If they're aggressive, they still need to attack and kill you. Your change just makes that easier. And any Hearthstone deck that loses to aggro 100 % of the time is unplayable IMO.
Bonus) How many games do you play that are decided by Archivist? I haven't seen that card in ages. I haven't been seeing Benedictus, either. But the only reason you would play a 7 mana 4/6 is to gain some actual advantage. Your proposed Benedictus is a huge tempo loss that basically gives you nothing at all back for it. There are way better way to kill Reno effects.
1)Well fine, I could have worded that one better, still simply "choose another target" would be enough without going into Echo. There is quite a lot of wrong with the current version, infinite cards (as in: never end+never fatigue) are ALWAYS bad for HS, same with immense burst dmg (no way to stop burst from hand...why do you think charge rotated out completely?).
2)The hate towards Ice Block only came from the fact that (as I said earlier) it was mostly played in the fUn decks that force a "you are under extreme pressure to end the game because you know your opponent WILL win whituot you being able to do anything about it if he doesn't die NOW" situation. Also that card can be played by turn 3, THIS one needs a quest to be completed...again, Idk how I'd change the requirement but I believe you are thinking about a "questline requirement" which is stupidly easy to complete...I'm NOT referring to that, it would obviously not be as easy/fast to complete. So from an aggro player's prospective you have the time so you should have killed him earlier (and also...it's not like it's a sure way to survive) and from a "I need to kill him or else his FuN aNd InTeRaCtIvE OTK WILL destroy me" prospective... this card is VERY unlikely to fit in a deck like that if the requirement isn't extremely simple to complete. Maybe Amara, Warden of Hope would have been a more accurate comparison: you build your deck around this defensive thing that isn't going to win you the game BUT it helps you with not losing said game.
3)Yes it does...again, you are thinking that quest warlock will be built and played exactly the same, obviously that's not the case, you'll need more survivabilty and less self harm, instantly improving your chances vs aggressive decks (and AGAIN, depending on how it goes, it may be changed to be easier to complete, which could mean less self dmg, more healing or something like that). You are NOT going to FINISH the quest with a higher health than your opponent but (news flash) warlocks also have a GREAT deal of healing. It's more interactive for both players as BOTH feel the effect of your dmg so YOU have to consider your own health when trying to kill the opponent...and he has to do the same since all dmg he does to you will be reflected at him as well.
As a (stupid) sidenote, the voiceline goes "All of Stormwind will feel MY pain" and guess what, in order for someone to feel YOUR pain...YOU have to feel it as well...not to mention that a warlock's whole shtick is sacrificing something from himself for the power to hurt someone else and well...you aren't sacrificing shit with the current questline.
BONUS Not many recently I know, but still ANY card that delays fatigue by more than 4/5 cards is a mistake, as it lets you ignore fatigue (or at least...it WAS when fatigue was actually treated for what it is a.k.a. the unquestionably best "end of deck" feature ever created in ANY card game. Now you don't even see past half your deck most of the time) Now you may say "well doesn't this guy do the exact same?" well yes, and I still think it's a mistake...just slightly less than the current one since at least it's a symmetrical effect, so in "reactive" mirrors (the only place where it was ever useful) it's no longer an autowin but in OTHER matchups it gains SOME amount of utilty. Don't get me wrong...it STAYS just as much of a meme card as it always was, this change simply makes it less "polarizing".
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on these, dude. I don't think inevitability in HS is a problem (Ignite, The Demon Seed) within a reasonable time frame (if the warlock quest needs fixing, which it might, I would prefer they just make it harder to complete, and thus slower). And fatigue isn't especially relevant outside control v control, which is a real rarity these days.
I'm just going to add that the reason I find inevitabilty to be toxic for HS is that there is NO way to interact with them that isn't limited to "just kill them lol".... this is the part where Dirty Rat and similar cards are mentioned and to that I say...sure...you can also randomly win or lose from those cards...because it feels fun,earned and interesting when you play them, flip a coin and either win or lose on the spot depending on the outcome of the cointoss.
On the fatigue bit...that's exactly the point...you shouldn't mess with a core part of the gameplan of an archetype unless you want said archetype to burn in hell
(please read here first)
DISCLAIMER(S)
This is:
1)My personal opinion, so I'd love to hear some feedback AND what other cards you'd change (with how and why if you can/want to).
2)COMPLETELY UNRELATED to how strong they are.
3)FAR from all the cards I'd change, I'm just listing the more interesting ideas.
So (finally) here goes.
As the title implies this post is a list of card changes aimed at making some cards a bit more interesting and fun for both players while keeping (or sometimes increasing) their power.
Ignite
THE CHANGE:
becomes a 2 (or 3, Idk) mana spell that says "Deal 1 damage to an enemy, if it dies recast dealing +1 damage" (yes, it CAN go face, dealing 8 dmg if you kill the entire board with it,potentially even more)
THE REASONING:
Not only does this change speak more to the flavour of "igniting something that escalates into a gingantic wildfire" but also stops it from going infinite and being a single minded "point face till it stops glowing" which I'd describe as a monumental improvement in terms of being fun for both players.
Open the Waygate
THE CHANGE:
the requirement can stay the same (it may need to be changed though since the reward will fit a different playstyle). The reward, however, becomes Time Warp: still a 5 mana spell, now says "the next time you lose the game, turn back time instead". With "turn back time" meaning you discover the option to go back 1/2/3 (or more) turns. (turn counter still keeps going to avoid softlocks...yes, it does mean that if you die the turn after playing it you get it back in hand)
THE REASONING:
The idea was to make it an actually cool and unique card instead of a boring "you have 20/30 mana and minions you play with the first 10/20 have charge" OTK machine...while also keeping the time manipulation flavour.
The Demon Seed
THE CHANGE:
everything can stay the same (it may need to be easier/harder to complete) but the reward becomes "ALL damage you take is ALSO dealt to the opponent"
THE REASONING:
Even without the "fk fatigue" part of this card (which is its only real glaring design flaw, the rest is a powerlevel issue) the card has shown its incredible power and uninteractiveness, this change would keep the flavour and remove some of the stupidly insane offensive power for some defence as well, it would also make it more interactive as BOTH players have ways to react and play around this effect (though you are obviously at a quite monstrous advantage)
Archbishop Benedictus
THE CHANGE:
battlecry "each player shuffles a copy of their opponent's deck into their own"
THE REASONING:
With this change it would go from a near useless (exept vs REAL grindy control decks, where it's an autowin) fatigue delay bomb into absolute fking chaos that DOES have some use (namely pollutes the draw of faster decks), YES it would make games way longer so I'm slightly more "iffy" about this one.
(As a final note I REALLY wanted to say something about Seek Guidance but I couldn't find ANY way to make it actually interesting as opposed to a stupidly cheap "win the game")
Your Open the Waygate change is without exaggerating the worst hearthstone related idea i have ever seen, you do realize you can very easily capture your opoonent in an endless time loop that only ends if one of you two concedes or you hit the 45/90 turn limit? Like, finish your quest, ingore board state and just go face, if they decide to kill your just turn back time 1-3 turns and repeat, until they eventually concede out of bordedom.
The only kind of deck that could reasonably get out of this is a control deck that can withstand 3 turns of pure "ignore verything, go face mode" and kill you on turn 4 after your quest is completed.
Sorry but no, id rather keep playing against old Time Warp.
Exept it's not even NEARLY as easy as you think, first of all you need to be confident you are able to kill your opponent in (max) 3 turns AFTER PLAYING A 5 MANA DO NOTHING (you can even up the cost if you really want to) or else you don't get it back in hand and bye bye timeloop, same goes if your opponent manages to stall for A SINGLE TURN more than you expect and then kill you...you got a second life but you aren't looping anyone.
So this is a strong asset as it kind of forces your opponent to defend himself for a few turns (if you decide to just point face...which you don't have to) or just delay his lethal (aka, if you are defending instead of pointing face...you have a higher chance to survive). You are HEAVILY overestimating the potential to "break" this card...the only real problem to consider would be DEEP fatigue but by that point the turn limit is more or less already near AND it is still interactable by not attaking or even healing the opponent (and that's assuming the mage wasn't forced to play it earlier)
Sorry but no, I'd rather NOT keep the old "lol me powerdraw like idiot--> me play some stuff--->me win with the only counterplay is...being killed by the opponent before this step"
Very interesting ideas. I love the flavor improvements. I think the warlock change is the most practical and likely to happen. Seek Guidance would have been more interesting as a shadow spell. Or even better, have Darkbishop Benedictus convert it into an alternate questline and Shadow spell with shadow Priest synergy at the start of the game (before his other effect triggers). Since people seem to want a direct counter to warlock quest, maybe the reward could be "all damage to your opponent from any source has lifesteal for your hero. Passive: Add a mind blast to your hand at the end of each turn."
"I want to nerf these cards into oblivion or making them absurdly toxic", heartpwn edition.
No one would ever play ignite, ever again, in the history of the game. Just say what you actually want "Ignite should be deleted", that's easier, without any nonsense "omg I'm so cute and artsy look at this funky change I made that will result in the card never being used again". It's not difficult to do mate and it's disingenuous as all hell.
No one would ever play the warlock quest either. Because guess what, the whole point is damaging yourself the whole game in order to redirect damage to your opponent. Which is also why aggro decks are good against questlocks, because if you do the opponent's job it kind of helps them kill you. Again, just say "I don't want anyone to ever play this card ever again", stop beating around the bush so much.
I don't even want to go into the waygate change because it'll never be implemented to begin with so it's useless to discuss. It'd either stay unplayed as it is now (which is good) or be entirely broken, which would be far from good.
Thankfully the meta isn't slow enough (probably won't ever be again outside of idk...bronze and silver ranks) for your benedictus change to affect anyone because wow, what a horrid change that'd be. If you want to play stupid cards play them for your own sake, kindly don't force your opponent to participate in this idiotic memery.
Ok bud
1) I HIGHLY doubt anyone would ever ignore a Defile that ALSO does face dmg.
2)that is not true...no one would play the SAME quest warlock that we have now but I believe you missed the "ALL dmg" part of the effect...take a second to think about the implications b4 you start dismissing it as "useless".
3)just so you know... "no" is NOT an argument, anyway...you can read my reply to the first guy that responded if you want a decent breakdown on why it wouldn't be either useless nor broken.
4)Well I DID say it was the one change I was iffy about...still...it's a 7 mana do nothing, if you don't want to meme and you just want to tryhard BUT if you (while tryharding with whatever megafast deck you want) let the opponent play it for free then...you kinda deserve to get memed on...bottom right is always there anyway.
I don't get the priest quest change but I appreciate the feedback
<pre id="tw-target-text" class="tw-data-text tw-text-large XcVN5d tw-ta" dir="ltr" data-placeholder="Traduzione"> </pre>The cards in question were already interesting, though. Why not just imagine new cards you personally find interesting instead of tinkering with existing ones?
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I really love this idea, very flavorful
I was mainly suggesting the possibility of enabling the questline to work with Darkbishop. The questline flavor naturally has a "holy" feel, so it wouldn't really make sense to just add a shadow tag. You could change the mulligan/start of game effect order, but that might be a clunky change. Alternatively, you could build on the flavor of the Darkbishop card and "corrupt" the questline if Darkbishop is in your deck to not only make it a shadow spell, but activate an entirely different questline that is more oriented towards the Shadow Priest playstyle (more aggressive). But I guess even then you would have to manipulate the order of start of game effects
well that's what I said in the disclaimer:
I personally don't find the design/playstyle of any of those cards interesting
I like this idea as a thought experiment, but I agree with the earlier poster that said your suggestions seem somewhat disingenuous. These changes would all make the card completely unplayable IMO, except the Benedictus one, and that one would just make the card... even more pointless than it already is?
The proposed change to Ignite would make it nothing like Defile. First off, Defile is an AoE (making it easier to chain), and more importantly there is no randomness to the with that card. This basically needs you to have and hit (in order) a 1 health, 2 health etc. minion on your opponent side to catch momentum. This would be more akin to Perpetual Flame with a much bigger failure rate.
The change you suggested for Open the Waygate sounds just as toxic as the current one. It just prolongs the game unnecessarily most games, and has to be the worst card in the game to lose against if your opponent actually turns the game around after using it? After he's already "won"? Also, why build your entire deck around something that isn't in any perceivable way an actual wincon? It's just a not-lose-on-the-spot card.
The Demon Seed would be wholly unplayable against aggro with your change, most midrange probably have a favorable matchup against it unless they can drop early giants, and the slowest matchups are probably still a win. It just makes the quest way, way worse. I don't get how that makes the card more interesting.
As I already said, I don't agree with these takes:
(Ignite)
1) Who lied to you? the damage would ALWAYS be targeted, yes, it's not as easy to chain as Defile but it can be used to clean some boards (since it's cheap it can be used after another boardclear) AND get some face dmg in (also I made as a "quest mage card" so it benefits from spell dmg quite a lot), I also considered letting it target anything so you can blow up your minions as well if you need to increase the dmg (yea...thinking back at it..that's probably a decent idea)
(Open the Waygate)
2)It wouldn't be NEARLY as toxic as the current one, I'd place it into the ballpark of something like Ice Block a.k.a "it's only toxic if you are under extreme pressure to end the game because you know your opponent WILL win without you being able to do anything about it if he doesn't die NOW". The point of the card is exactly to give the player a second chance after knowing what the opponent has at his disposal, still the opponent ALSO knows it's been played so he can strategize on how to win in 2 different ways to "trick" you...WAY more interactive than the current version of this card.
Your last point is why I said it probably needs a different requirement, one that isn't THAT big of a deckbuilding restriction.
(The Demon Seed)
3)Before I argue I'd like to remind you that I DID say "it may need to be easier/harder to complete".
With this change it would only require you to change playstyle a bit and juggle self harm and healing a bit more (which warlock has TONS of either so not like it's that big of a problem),slowing down the quest a bit for more safety is exactly what can turn the aggro matchup around (to an extent). Also you are ignoring the fact that, if at ANY point after you played the reward, you happen to be higher health than your aggro opponent...they instalose (offset by the fact that it's VERY difficult to make happen) so...NO it would NOT be unplayable vs aggro...quite the opposite actually, I'd argue it may even be better... what ACTUALLY changes is that the card is now something both players can interact with AND it's less polarizing.
BONUS
You are underestimating the mayhem that can be caused by this new Archbishop Benedictus, you shut down higlander AND get some of their own synergy cards, you pollute the draw of faster decks (offset by the fact that you played a 7 mana do nothing vs something that wants to kill you by turn 6)...I'm a bit iffy about it as the games would drag on quite a lot but at least this time they aren't decided by the better Archivist Elysiana rolls.
Also all this was meant to do is let him STAY a meme card, just taking away the toxic "I win fatigue" part
1) No one lied to me, the proposed card text in your original post would literally make it random targets after the first kill - no recast card in the game lets you select the target beyond the first casting. To target each reiteration of the spell you would have to make it an Echo-spell, putting a 0-mana copy back in your hand after you kill a target. I suppose that would make it a (potentially) better Perpetual Flame, and it could be interesting effect wise. I still don't think there's anything wrong with the current version, though.
2) Ice Block has had more than its share of haters over the year, especially every time a new Freeze Mage variant rears it head. Block can be countered by a variant of tech cards, and it's mostly used to squeeze in that extra turn before you can either secure the win or throw down Reno. Your suggested variation can't be countered, and doesn't allow the mage to set up a winning play (other than cases where he's grievously misplayed his cards or misread his opponent's). How is that more interactive?
3) In no way does this give the warlock a better matchup against aggro - in my opinion, it makes every aggro deck an autoloss for questlock. Finishing the quest on a higher health total than an aggro opponent as quest warlock is a pipe dream - it's not just that it's hard, it's that it doesn't happen. You're doing six (lifesteal) damage through your quest completions, and that's mostly it. And how is it more interactive for your opponent? If they're aggressive, they still need to attack and kill you. Your change just makes that easier. And any Hearthstone deck that loses to aggro 100 % of the time is unplayable IMO.
Bonus) How many games do you play that are decided by Archivist? I haven't seen that card in ages. I haven't been seeing Benedictus, either. But the only reason you would play a 7 mana 4/6 is to gain some actual advantage. Your proposed Benedictus is a huge tempo loss that basically gives you nothing at all back for it. There are way better way to kill Reno effects.
Ok so
1)Well fine, I could have worded that one better, still simply "choose another target" would be enough without going into Echo.
There is quite a lot of wrong with the current version, infinite cards (as in: never end+never fatigue) are ALWAYS bad for HS, same with immense burst dmg (no way to stop burst from hand...why do you think charge rotated out completely?).
2)The hate towards Ice Block only came from the fact that (as I said earlier) it was mostly played in the fUn decks that force a "you are under extreme pressure to end the game because you know your opponent WILL win whituot you being able to do anything about it if he doesn't die NOW" situation. Also that card can be played by turn 3, THIS one needs a quest to be completed...again, Idk how I'd change the requirement but I believe you are thinking about a "questline requirement" which is stupidly easy to complete...I'm NOT referring to that, it would obviously not be as easy/fast to complete. So from an aggro player's prospective you have the time so you should have killed him earlier (and also...it's not like it's a sure way to survive) and from a "I need to kill him or else his FuN aNd InTeRaCtIvE OTK WILL destroy me" prospective... this card is VERY unlikely to fit in a deck like that if the requirement isn't extremely simple to complete. Maybe Amara, Warden of Hope would have been a more accurate comparison: you build your deck around this defensive thing that isn't going to win you the game BUT it helps you with not losing said game.
3)Yes it does...again, you are thinking that quest warlock will be built and played exactly the same, obviously that's not the case, you'll need more survivabilty and less self harm, instantly improving your chances vs aggressive decks (and AGAIN, depending on how it goes, it may be changed to be easier to complete, which could mean less self dmg, more healing or something like that). You are NOT going to FINISH the quest with a higher health than your opponent but (news flash) warlocks also have a GREAT deal of healing.
It's more interactive for both players as BOTH feel the effect of your dmg so YOU have to consider your own health when trying to kill the opponent...and he has to do the same since all dmg he does to you will be reflected at him as well.
As a (stupid) sidenote, the voiceline goes "All of Stormwind will feel MY pain" and guess what, in order for someone to feel YOUR pain...YOU have to feel it as well...not to mention that a warlock's whole shtick is sacrificing something from himself for the power to hurt someone else and well...you aren't sacrificing shit with the current questline.
BONUS
Not many recently I know, but still ANY card that delays fatigue by more than 4/5 cards is a mistake, as it lets you ignore fatigue (or at least...it WAS when fatigue was actually treated for what it is a.k.a. the unquestionably best "end of deck" feature ever created in ANY card game. Now you don't even see past half your deck most of the time)
Now you may say "well doesn't this guy do the exact same?" well yes, and I still think it's a mistake...just slightly less than the current one since at least it's a symmetrical effect, so in "reactive" mirrors (the only place where it was ever useful) it's no longer an autowin but in OTHER matchups it gains SOME amount of utilty. Don't get me wrong...it STAYS just as much of a meme card as it always was, this change simply makes it less "polarizing".
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on these, dude. I don't think inevitability in HS is a problem (Ignite, The Demon Seed) within a reasonable time frame (if the warlock quest needs fixing, which it might, I would prefer they just make it harder to complete, and thus slower). And fatigue isn't especially relevant outside control v control, which is a real rarity these days.
I guess so.
I'm just going to add that the reason I find inevitabilty to be toxic for HS is that there is NO way to interact with them that isn't limited to "just kill them lol".... this is the part where Dirty Rat and similar cards are mentioned and to that I say...sure...you can also randomly win or lose from those cards...because it feels fun,earned and interesting when you play them, flip a coin and either win or lose on the spot depending on the outcome of the cointoss.
On the fatigue bit...that's exactly the point...you shouldn't mess with a core part of the gameplan of an archetype unless you want said archetype to burn in hell
I feel like warlock healing should reverse your quest progress. That might be enough