Guys I didn’t believed that hearthstone is somehow rigged, but during this week i faced countless mages/warlocks not a single paladin in more than 30 matches, I was playing mainly DH deathrattle. Tired of losing I said ok let’s switch to poison rogue who obliterates mage and warlocks, and what the fuck just happend, i fucking faced 3 paladins in a row, and with poison rogue it’s literally impossible to win.
what the hell, with DH never faced a paladin and then switch to counter mage/warlock PUM
Guys I didn’t believed that hearthstone is somehow rigged, but during this week i faced countless mages/warlocks not a single paladin in more than 30 matches, I was playing mainly DH deathrattle. Tired of losing I said ok let’s switch to poison rogue who obliterates mage and warlocks, and what the fuck just happend, i fucking faced 3 paladins in a row, and with poison rogue it’s literally impossible to win.
what the hell, with DH never faced a paladin and then switch to counter mage/warlock PUM
this is a fucking joke
blad i know what you mean this game is rigged big time i should be legend but stuck at diamond 10 facing 80% of games against quest magez cuz
I mainly play priest and warrior just cause I like the way to decks play. I swear my warrior always gets locks and shaman and my priest gets mage and pally
Guys I didn’t believed that hearthstone is somehow rigged, but during this week i faced countless mages/warlocks not a single paladin in more than 30 matches, I was playing mainly DH deathrattle. Tired of losing I said ok let’s switch to poison rogue who obliterates mage and warlocks, and what the fuck just happend, i fucking faced 3 paladins in a row, and with poison rogue it’s literally impossible to win.
what the hell, with DH never faced a paladin and then switch to counter mage/warlock PUM
this is a fucking joke
Don't listen the the gaslighters and blizzard suckers, the game is rigged, all the internet card games are. The game will force wins and losses to keep you engaged and hopefully inspire spending. Activision even patented a method for showing players items that you don't have while forcing a loss.
Yes, can confirm the entire game was created just to screw with you personally. The jig is up, the secret is out, you did it OP! /s
In other news, RNG can be a bitch sometimes.
why you being a dick? its true that hs is rigged, they've even admitted it themselves they rig the matchmaking so players get around a 50% win-rate. It's clear they queue you into deck counters, this issnt hard to do with the research. Look at Zeph and how it instantly finds the perfect card.
Yes, can confirm the entire game was created just to screw with you personally. The jig is up, the secret is out, you did it OP! /s
In other news, RNG can be a bitch sometimes.
why you being a dick? its true that hs is rigged, they've even admitted it themselves they rig the matchmaking so players get around a 50% win-rate. It's clear they queue you into deck counters, this issnt hard to do with the research. Look at Zeph and how it instantly finds the perfect card.
They "rig" the matchmaking by giving you opponents which fit your MMR. it would be way too hard otherwise. Look at all the threads were people rage about Zeph not working as he should.
I've been playing HS since 2015 and I can confirm that sometimes the RNG is not really random.
I really think that the "randomness" in HS is actually a controlled rng. This means that your chances to win/lose increase, or decrease at certain points of the game.
Anyone who thinks that the decks you queue into aren't based on the decks you play are kidding themselves. If you're blinkered enough not to see this you can throw as many crap insults and be as clever as you want.
I'm not sure why people get so touchy about this topic to be honest.
This is a recurring theme that has been explained again and again ad nauseam...
It has already been shown that, according to an Activision patent used in every Blizzard game with the simple objective of increasing revenue, the matchmaking and everything that should be random in the game is in fact rigged, there is nothing truly random in Hearthstone (and I don't just mean what cards you get when you open a pack), but everything is performed by an algorithm that, for example, automatically chooses your opponent based on your winrate and the type of deck and cards you are going to play with, or even is able to alter the odds of drawing a certain card at a certain time or chooses the best or worst option from a pool as it deems appropriate.
But why? What is the reason for this algorithm? It is very simple: when you go to play a game, the algorithm used by Blizzard has already decided beforehand whether you should win or lose that game: your fate is already sealed. According to Blizzard, in theory, this ensures the ideal 50% winrate every time for everyone.
This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T658vTvoRs clearly explain what this patent consists of and you also have at your disposal these threads where the matter is discussed, since as you can see, it is a fairly recurring issuefor more than obvious reasons:
The problem are the usual fanboys who refuse to believe the evidence and charge against it, trying to make it appear that everything is our imagination, a coincidence, that the holy Blizzard would never put its financial interests first over the interests of its players.
I've been playing HS since 2015 and I can confirm that sometimes the RNG is not really random.
I really think that the "randomness" in HS is actually a controlled rng. This means that your chances to win/lose increase, or decrease at certain points of the game.
Exactly, HS keeps track in logs the decks you play and W/R YOU have with them and finds an opponent that has similar W/R to yours. So match making isn't Random. When you Queue you don't just play a random opponent but an opponent with similar w/r to you. That's why if you play Trash decks eventually you will encounter troll decks and opponents who aren't as good at the game or just troll.
On the other hand if you are on a win streak games will get harder as they progress.
My games usually take 10-20 secs to find a match.. So i was playing and was on a win streak 5-6 wins and then games started taking 1-2 mins to queue so..... yea its not Random.
Also that's why when you hit legend you play with people on D1 - D3 ranks and not only other Legend players its because the game considers w/r as a factor for match making ..
The main problem is with the people that keep playing and/or spending money on this game even though they see it's rigged.
Sending a message like "we want transparency on what goes on behind the scenes, we want to have fair chances, we want more archetypes being trully viable, etc, ... or we're not giving you a dime" should be the important aspect.
Even not spending money (and just playing "free") is good for blizzard - lower queue times, more publicity overall, subliminal incentive to maybe watch HS streams when unable to play, more interest into watching tournaments, etc.
In other words, any connection that you keep having with the game when you are frustrated and realize some inner workings, means revenue ($$$) for blizzard.
Also, it's not really important that the MM isn't really rigged (or that it is). We, as human beings, rely very much on emotions. For example, a lot of homes/appartments are bought "on emotion" rather than facts. And most of those people end up regretting it later on. But that's not important - the mortgage is set up and your money spent. Same is with HS.
And don't think that they don't have people who target these things specifically. Just a simple observation: from how many complaints there are about the MM, one would think they changed something in 5 years to make it "feel" less rigged. But no, they didn't. Why? Because those people (mainly psychologists) made them realize it's more profitable to leave this amount of contradicting emotions into the game. (Just e.g., look at what has happened from the '80s with the reports about global warming. There are so many contradictory reports that people don't know what to believe. This means companies can keep doing what they were always doing without any real action being taken against them).
Same is with HS and probably most high profile things. When there is doubt, nothing will change, no matter how many complain.
Do you think it's hard to increase/decrease the *chance* of being queued against certain decks based on the legendaries each player has in its decks? No, it's not. Finding players close to your MMR is very fast. What takes longer is comparing some of the cards they have and prioritizing (or not), probably by a random chance increase/decrease factor, whether you get to play one guy or another, from that list.
There's a good reason why HS has been moving more and more towards fewer and fewer archetypes being viable, and more and more towards everything orbiting around legendary cards. And quests are the most obvious and easy to check for in your deck! I.e. if you have the quest, it's clear what archetype you are playing since no one plays to lose and because their whole design focus has been towards forcing certain legendaries and only certain viable decks around them.
It's very easy and fast to control everything from that point on. Even if it's not 100% rigged. For example, you could have a +25% chance to queue into a counter deck if you won too many before. Changing decks completely alters the pool of opponents, when enough are around. When I played this game, i had much better MM randomness during late and very late hours, when the pool of opponents is small, because it's very hard to find someone "suitable" to play against outside of just comparing MMRs. Why? Because their goal is not to hinder your ability to play (with too long queues); so, when the pool is small, less comparisons are being done, such that your wait time is minimal. During the hours when everyone plays, it's very easy to find any type of opponent based on whatever goal.
That's also why everyone says not to change decks after every few games. Over a lot of games, the randomness factor normalizes towards the intended win rate of that deck. And of course they intend it to be over 50% for the metas they force down our throats. If you are more skilled than others or simply luckier that day, this win rate can be higher than the intended. It's why they only care about high legend win rates of decks. It also means that a lot of people will have a lower win rate (which they don't care about, because it's not high legend; if this isn't strange and wrong, i don't know what is).
Just my 2 cents and personal opinions. Doesn't mean they are the absolute truth.
Remember when Apple had to make a "fake" shuffle option on the Ipod because people kept complaining that "it wast truly random" because sometimes the random shuffle would play the same song twice or in the exact order of the album. Then they decided to put an updated version that made it so it couldn't play the same song or in the same order, just because people can't fathom that sometimes, rng is just that, random
True. To add to this, I am also noticing that since an year ago this is deck related. So, when you switch decks you might start encountering stronger/weaker opponents depending on your deck win rate, not only your ladder win rate this Season.
@OP: As a general rule: If you make more than 3 losses in a row (not due to bad rng during the game) with a single deck it's almost always better to switch to another deck since obviously you are out of meta atm with this deck.
Hearthstone is rigged or not based on your definition of the word. Does MMR count as rigged, because matchmaking doesn't match you against Bronze when you're at Diamond? If so, then debating on this topic is pointless because when you push that far into that definition of the word then of course it's rigged, end of story and we can all go home. But if it's more about the subtleties of MMR, then we need to take into account that Hearthstone's MMR considers more factors than rank and star bonuses, though we don't know what those are, so all arguing on this topic is going to be based on conjecture which is again pointless. But at this point we might as well give it a whirl.
'Hearthstone is rigged because it purposefully queues you into unfavorable matchups in order to enforce a 50% winrate!' -- The proof for this seems to always be circumstantial, so I might as well reply with my own circumstantial evidence: why are there so many people boasting with 60%+ winrate decks then? Or why can't you reach Legend with a Tier 4 deck? Why is it human nature to focus on the bad experiences more than on the good ones, making people rarely make post about a good winstreak?
'But the devs have the opportunity to make matchmaking rigged, do you trust them not to make it so?' -- Not only would that be a lot of work for something that the law of averages would do on its own if left alone, but that is a ridiculous presumption also because of how you can apply that to anything in existence: people have the opportunity to murder you, you shouldn't talk to people anymore. Video games have the opportunity to get updated with something that breaks the game, you shouldn't play video games anymore. It's just not good enough on its own because opportunity is irrelevant. And this is of course without considering how traditionally bad the Hearthstone team has been at coding things that require perspective: Zephrys needed an update with basically every expansion and even then you had to force him to give you what you want. Matchmaking may be rigged, but opportunity is not a good argument in favor of it.
'But the patent!' -- is meaningless, just like how Sony patented interactive ads and nothing came of it. Or that one guy who patented a stick. Even so, I can maybe see it applied to games like Call of Duty, where all you have to take into account is K/D ratios and purchases, but for Hearthstone it would be incredibly complex. It would need to read and judge deck archetypes, card-when-played winrates and mulligans, topdecks and Discovers, and ALL of this, just to do something that again, the law of averages would do on its own. And considering how competent the single player AI is in Hearthstone, it's also something that's doubtful.
One interesting argument I've heard before is that matchmaking is rigged only in the sense that it strives to offer you diverse opponents. If you ask me, this is an 'I'm okay with it' sort of rigged, because it doesn't force winrates on its own, but even so, I still doubt it exists because diversity is something that naturally happens, because in my experience few people enjoy playing the same decks over and over. And when there's a 'one deck to rule them all' meta like it has been for midrange shaman, you still ended up queueing into them 2 out of 3 times. It could be a thing, I just doubt it.
Bear in mind that just because I addressed these arguments it doesn't mean MMR is 100% not rigged. I merely offered my perspective on what I think are the top arguments of this topic, and I could be wrong after all.
Ever notice how literally nobody ever comes to the forum and says the RNG is rigged in their favour?
Exactly.
Ever notice how literally nobody ever comes to anywhere and says something is rigged in their favour?
Exactly, people doing so would be really stupid: when something good happens to you, you usually shut up and take advantage of your "good luck".
Do you notice the nonsense you just said? Why are you going to complain about your "good luck"? If you find 10 bucks on the floor, are you going to complain? OMFG
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Guys I didn’t believed that hearthstone is somehow rigged, but during this week i faced countless mages/warlocks not a single paladin in more than 30 matches, I was playing mainly DH deathrattle.
Tired of losing I said ok let’s switch to poison rogue who obliterates mage and warlocks, and what the fuck just happend, i fucking faced 3 paladins in a row, and with poison rogue it’s literally impossible to win.
what the hell, with DH never faced a paladin and then switch to counter mage/warlock PUM
this is a fucking joke
Yes, can confirm the entire game was created just to screw with you personally. The jig is up, the secret is out, you did it OP! /s
In other news, RNG can be a bitch sometimes.
You need to buy a few more packs to skew the matchmaking algorithm in your favor.
blad i know what you mean this game is rigged big time i should be legend but stuck at diamond 10 facing 80% of games against quest magez cuz
I mainly play priest and warrior just cause I like the way to decks play. I swear my warrior always gets locks and shaman and my priest gets mage and pally
Don't listen the the gaslighters and blizzard suckers, the game is rigged, all the internet card games are. The game will force wins and losses to keep you engaged and hopefully inspire spending. Activision even patented a method for showing players items that you don't have while forcing a loss.
Activision Patents Matchmaking That Encourages Players To Buy Microtransactions (kotaku.com)
why you being a dick? its true that hs is rigged, they've even admitted it themselves they rig the matchmaking so players get around a 50% win-rate. It's clear they queue you into deck counters, this issnt hard to do with the research. Look at Zeph and how it instantly finds the perfect card.
They "rig" the matchmaking by giving you opponents which fit your MMR. it would be way too hard otherwise. Look at all the threads were people rage about Zeph not working as he should.
It was a wizard
I've been playing HS since 2015 and I can confirm that sometimes the RNG is not really random.
I really think that the "randomness" in HS is actually a controlled rng. This means that your chances to win/lose increase, or decrease at certain points of the game.
Anyone who thinks that the decks you queue into aren't based on the decks you play are kidding themselves. If you're blinkered enough not to see this you can throw as many crap insults and be as clever as you want.
I'm not sure why people get so touchy about this topic to be honest.
This is a recurring theme that has been explained again and again ad nauseam...
It has already been shown that, according to an Activision patent used in every Blizzard game with the simple objective of increasing revenue, the matchmaking and everything that should be random in the game is in fact rigged, there is nothing truly random in Hearthstone (and I don't just mean what cards you get when you open a pack), but everything is performed by an algorithm that, for example, automatically chooses your opponent based on your winrate and the type of deck and cards you are going to play with, or even is able to alter the odds of drawing a certain card at a certain time or chooses the best or worst option from a pool as it deems appropriate.
But why? What is the reason for this algorithm? It is very simple: when you go to play a game, the algorithm used by Blizzard has already decided beforehand whether you should win or lose that game: your fate is already sealed. According to Blizzard, in theory, this ensures the ideal 50% winrate every time for everyone.
This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T658vTvoRs clearly explain what this patent consists of and you also have at your disposal these threads where the matter is discussed, since as you can see, it is a fairly recurring issue for more than obvious reasons:
The problem are the usual fanboys who refuse to believe the evidence and charge against it, trying to make it appear that everything is our imagination, a coincidence, that the holy Blizzard would never put its financial interests first over the interests of its players.
Exactly, HS keeps track in logs the decks you play and W/R YOU have with them and finds an opponent that has similar W/R to yours. So match making isn't Random. When you Queue you don't just play a random opponent but an opponent with similar w/r to you. That's why if you play Trash decks eventually you will encounter troll decks and opponents who aren't as good at the game or just troll.
On the other hand if you are on a win streak games will get harder as they progress.
My games usually take 10-20 secs to find a match.. So i was playing and was on a win streak 5-6 wins and then games started taking 1-2 mins to queue so..... yea its not Random.
Also that's why when you hit legend you play with people on D1 - D3 ranks and not only other Legend players its because the game considers w/r as a factor for match making ..
The main problem is with the people that keep playing and/or spending money on this game even though they see it's rigged.
Sending a message like "we want transparency on what goes on behind the scenes, we want to have fair chances, we want more archetypes being trully viable, etc, ... or we're not giving you a dime" should be the important aspect.
Even not spending money (and just playing "free") is good for blizzard - lower queue times, more publicity overall, subliminal incentive to maybe watch HS streams when unable to play, more interest into watching tournaments, etc.
In other words, any connection that you keep having with the game when you are frustrated and realize some inner workings, means revenue ($$$) for blizzard.
Also, it's not really important that the MM isn't really rigged (or that it is). We, as human beings, rely very much on emotions. For example, a lot of homes/appartments are bought "on emotion" rather than facts. And most of those people end up regretting it later on. But that's not important - the mortgage is set up and your money spent. Same is with HS.
And don't think that they don't have people who target these things specifically. Just a simple observation: from how many complaints there are about the MM, one would think they changed something in 5 years to make it "feel" less rigged. But no, they didn't. Why? Because those people (mainly psychologists) made them realize it's more profitable to leave this amount of contradicting emotions into the game. (Just e.g., look at what has happened from the '80s with the reports about global warming. There are so many contradictory reports that people don't know what to believe. This means companies can keep doing what they were always doing without any real action being taken against them).
Same is with HS and probably most high profile things. When there is doubt, nothing will change, no matter how many complain.
Do you think it's hard to increase/decrease the *chance* of being queued against certain decks based on the legendaries each player has in its decks? No, it's not. Finding players close to your MMR is very fast. What takes longer is comparing some of the cards they have and prioritizing (or not), probably by a random chance increase/decrease factor, whether you get to play one guy or another, from that list.
There's a good reason why HS has been moving more and more towards fewer and fewer archetypes being viable, and more and more towards everything orbiting around legendary cards. And quests are the most obvious and easy to check for in your deck! I.e. if you have the quest, it's clear what archetype you are playing since no one plays to lose and because their whole design focus has been towards forcing certain legendaries and only certain viable decks around them.
It's very easy and fast to control everything from that point on. Even if it's not 100% rigged. For example, you could have a +25% chance to queue into a counter deck if you won too many before. Changing decks completely alters the pool of opponents, when enough are around. When I played this game, i had much better MM randomness during late and very late hours, when the pool of opponents is small, because it's very hard to find someone "suitable" to play against outside of just comparing MMRs. Why? Because their goal is not to hinder your ability to play (with too long queues); so, when the pool is small, less comparisons are being done, such that your wait time is minimal. During the hours when everyone plays, it's very easy to find any type of opponent based on whatever goal.
That's also why everyone says not to change decks after every few games. Over a lot of games, the randomness factor normalizes towards the intended win rate of that deck. And of course they intend it to be over 50% for the metas they force down our throats. If you are more skilled than others or simply luckier that day, this win rate can be higher than the intended. It's why they only care about high legend win rates of decks. It also means that a lot of people will have a lower win rate (which they don't care about, because it's not high legend; if this isn't strange and wrong, i don't know what is).
Just my 2 cents and personal opinions. Doesn't mean they are the absolute truth.
Remember when Apple had to make a "fake" shuffle option on the Ipod because people kept complaining that "it wast truly random" because sometimes the random shuffle would play the same song twice or in the exact order of the album. Then they decided to put an updated version that made it so it couldn't play the same song or in the same order, just because people can't fathom that sometimes, rng is just that, random
And i don’t even play Paladins
Ever notice how literally nobody ever comes to the forum and says the RNG is rigged in their favour?
Exactly.
It's not rigged, it's you loosing much and dropping your mmr especially in diamond 5.
When you loose so much and get pissed and try counter deck, guess what - other loosers think the same and go with counter decks as well.
Win more and you will have no problems. Git gud issue
True. To add to this, I am also noticing that since an year ago this is deck related. So, when you switch decks you might start encountering stronger/weaker opponents depending on your deck win rate, not only your ladder win rate this Season.
@OP: As a general rule: If you make more than 3 losses in a row (not due to bad rng during the game) with a single deck it's almost always better to switch to another deck since obviously you are out of meta atm with this deck.
Hearthstone is rigged or not based on your definition of the word. Does MMR count as rigged, because matchmaking doesn't match you against Bronze when you're at Diamond? If so, then debating on this topic is pointless because when you push that far into that definition of the word then of course it's rigged, end of story and we can all go home. But if it's more about the subtleties of MMR, then we need to take into account that Hearthstone's MMR considers more factors than rank and star bonuses, though we don't know what those are, so all arguing on this topic is going to be based on conjecture which is again pointless. But at this point we might as well give it a whirl.
'Hearthstone is rigged because it purposefully queues you into unfavorable matchups in order to enforce a 50% winrate!' -- The proof for this seems to always be circumstantial, so I might as well reply with my own circumstantial evidence: why are there so many people boasting with 60%+ winrate decks then? Or why can't you reach Legend with a Tier 4 deck? Why is it human nature to focus on the bad experiences more than on the good ones, making people rarely make post about a good winstreak?
'But the devs have the opportunity to make matchmaking rigged, do you trust them not to make it so?' -- Not only would that be a lot of work for something that the law of averages would do on its own if left alone, but that is a ridiculous presumption also because of how you can apply that to anything in existence: people have the opportunity to murder you, you shouldn't talk to people anymore. Video games have the opportunity to get updated with something that breaks the game, you shouldn't play video games anymore. It's just not good enough on its own because opportunity is irrelevant. And this is of course without considering how traditionally bad the Hearthstone team has been at coding things that require perspective: Zephrys needed an update with basically every expansion and even then you had to force him to give you what you want. Matchmaking may be rigged, but opportunity is not a good argument in favor of it.
'But the patent!' -- is meaningless, just like how Sony patented interactive ads and nothing came of it. Or that one guy who patented a stick. Even so, I can maybe see it applied to games like Call of Duty, where all you have to take into account is K/D ratios and purchases, but for Hearthstone it would be incredibly complex. It would need to read and judge deck archetypes, card-when-played winrates and mulligans, topdecks and Discovers, and ALL of this, just to do something that again, the law of averages would do on its own. And considering how competent the single player AI is in Hearthstone, it's also something that's doubtful.
One interesting argument I've heard before is that matchmaking is rigged only in the sense that it strives to offer you diverse opponents. If you ask me, this is an 'I'm okay with it' sort of rigged, because it doesn't force winrates on its own, but even so, I still doubt it exists because diversity is something that naturally happens, because in my experience few people enjoy playing the same decks over and over. And when there's a 'one deck to rule them all' meta like it has been for midrange shaman, you still ended up queueing into them 2 out of 3 times. It could be a thing, I just doubt it.
Bear in mind that just because I addressed these arguments it doesn't mean MMR is 100% not rigged. I merely offered my perspective on what I think are the top arguments of this topic, and I could be wrong after all.
Ever notice how literally nobody ever comes to anywhere and says something is rigged in their favour?
Exactly, people doing so would be really stupid: when something good happens to you, you usually shut up and take advantage of your "good luck".
Do you notice the nonsense you just said? Why are you going to complain about your "good luck"? If you find 10 bucks on the floor, are you going to complain? OMFG