This card needs to be removed from the game plain and simple. I've been playing this game since launch, and I've played consistently since Knights of the Frozen Throne. There have been several mainstays/auto-include in decks across all classes that usually required removal cards for counter or a more aggressive strategy. Ragnaros, Lich King, Ziliax, Thaurissan, Zephrys, and Keleseth. Some of these cards are definitely more rng than others but most of the time they generated or they were must removals themselves. Not to mention THEY ARE ALL LEGENDARY!!!! now with Battlemaster you can play big minions at discount and resurrect them with warlock, stealth them with rogue, buff any mid-sized minion with paladin, priest minions which are either big already or have easy access to buffs, ramp and play big minions with druid.
The point is this is a neutral minion with legendary abilities. Until Speaker Gidra windfury has only effectively belonged to one class and that's shaman. The powerful neutral windfury minions have been Siamat and maybe stormwatcher (in arena) and back in the day windfury harpy.
There are certain cards where the developers have to stop tip-toe'ing around the nerf because they don't want to destroy the card. The thing with battlemaster is it never should have existed in the first place. How this card made it past the first stage of approval is beyond me.
I just want to be clear this is not the only problem card but it is a neutral I'm starting to see them in a lot of decks.
Paladin is the worst for it in my experience. E.g. cleared all but two 1/1 recruits -> battlemaster + attack boost X2 = 28 face damage in one turn. From two 1/1 minions. This was pre-nerf, but the nerfs were weak so this is still doable.
Most classes have other win conditions so it can be a surprise to see them pull it out. Definitely not as prevalent post-nerf, thankfully, but I agree - I don't think it's a good card in the game.
If you don't have this card, then control matters even less. It forces the quest players to not be too greedy or risk sudden death from the board they ignored.
you want battlemaster to get banned but stealer of souls is okay for you Omegalul. Battlemaster is just a wincon if you manage to have a sticky board witch is pretty hard these days. There are so many broken shit decks out there were you dont play a single minion and you complain about the card witch makes your deck board focused KEKW.
1) it's not even remotely close to auto-include in every class (unless mages somehow started playing minions or hunters decided that cards costing more than 5 were good to include in face decks, amongst the first that come to my mind)
2) This card is usually good at keeping greedy decks in check. Whether you like that or not is another matter entirely
3) Why does everyone have to preface everything with "I've been playing since beta, in fact I created the game in my sleep when I was 3 years old and then blizzard stole my idea"? Would your complaints have less merit if you'd started playing last March?
4) If the card is as busted as you seem to think it is, it'll be addressed again. 5 mana was way too little to pay for it but there are plenty of decks that are either very good (quest shaman, face hunter, aggro ele shaman/ele shaman, shadow priest, anacondra druid) or very popular (d6lock, quest mage) that don't use it and never will. The only class that regularly uses this card is paladin, rather literally. One variant of questlock uses it too (IIRC it's the best one, but without recent data I can't exactly be certain) and the 3 people on ladder still using quest rogue...so I seriously don't understand being so incensed about it, if I'm honest.
Removed? Hardly. Nerfed again? absolutely. I think 9 mana would be reasonable, to keep you from playing Conviction in the same turn. And I agree with those who are saying it should have been Legendary in the first place.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I like the card though, I think it's very healthy at 6 mana. Would it still see play at 7 mana ? Yeah maybe. Does that mean it should have been nerfed to 7 ? I don't know.
I don't want another Bonemare situation, I like my neutral cards more when they are playable and I don't want to wait years until they revert the nerf.
Can we please be allowed to experiment with our cards for multiple weeks before you scream in agony for a nerf/ban ? Is a whole month too much to ask ?
They WILL nerf it again if it deserves it. Complaining about it won't increase the odds. In fact you should actually play with the card to provide more data to blizzard analysts so they get a better picture.
I really think this card was designed for Battlegrounds mode as 5 star card and shuddenly some stupid developer thought "oh it would be great to make 5 mana creature of it!"
Windfury must belong to shaman and some shitty creatures.
you want battlemaster to get banned but stealer of souls is okay for you Omegalul. Battlemaster is just a wincon if you manage to have a sticky board witch is pretty hard these days. There are so many broken shit decks out there were you dont play a single minion and you complain about the card witch makes your deck board focused KEKW.
You're putting words in my mouth through text that people can easily check and see you're just a troll. Read my post again!!! Where does it say anywhere that stealer of souls is okay?
Stop trying to create problems or arguments where they don't exist.
1) it's not even remotely close to auto-include in every class (unless mages somehow started playing minions or hunters decided that cards costing more than 5 were good to include in face decks, amongst the first that come to my mind)
2) This card is usually good at keeping greedy decks in check. Whether you like that or not is another matter entirely
3) Why does everyone have to preface everything with "I've been playing since beta, in fact I created the game in my sleep when I was 3 years old and then blizzard stole my idea"? Would your complaints have less merit if you'd started playing last March?
4) If the card is as busted as you seem to think it is, it'll be addressed again. 5 mana was way too little to pay for it but there are plenty of decks that are either very good (quest shaman, face hunter, aggro ele shaman/ele shaman, shadow priest, anacondra druid) or very popular (d6lock, quest mage) that don't use it and never will. The only class that regularly uses this card is paladin, rather literally. One variant of questlock uses it too (IIRC it's the best one, but without recent data I can't exactly be certain) and the 3 people on ladder still using quest rogue...so I seriously don't understand being so incensed about it, if I'm honest.
I believe people including myself preface with been playing since the beginning in hopes of warding off the trolls that post something along the lines of "what is this your first expansion?" or "if you think this deck is bad did you experience this one?"
It shows that you've experienced all the highs and lows since the games inception and that you're not just whining over the first overpowered card or deck that you've experienced.
I really think this card was designed for Battlegrounds mode as 5 star card and shuddenly some stupid developer thought "oh it would be great to make 5 mana creature of it!"
Windfury must belong to shaman and some shitty creatures.
If you don't have this card, then control matters even less. It forces the quest players to not be too greedy or risk sudden death from the board they ignored.
it's a common card that is part of my point everyone can easily get this card and like someone else mention no it doesn't show up in every single deck but it's even being exploited by the decks that people were using this card to try and beat in the first place
They WILL nerf it again if it deserves it. Complaining about it won't increase the odds.
Given their recent propensity to nerf uncompetitive archetypes that simply "feel bad," I'd say your statement could not be further from the truth.
Asides from Barnes I don't recall any card that has been nerfed based purely on community reaction and not because of data showing that the card was overpowered / overplayed. What uncompetitive archetypes have they nerfed recently only because they felt bad ? It's a real question my brain is stupid and I can't remember things.
Also I don't think they ever targeted archetypes directly with nerfs, at least not as a rule, it's always targeting the specific card so it sees less play without killing the archetype. They don't want to destroy archetypes, unless they are long grindy fatigue style decks.
They WILL nerf it again if it deserves it. Complaining about it won't increase the odds.
Given their recent propensity to nerf uncompetitive archetypes that simply "feel bad," I'd say your statement could not be further from the truth.
Asides from Barnes I don't recall any card that has been nerfed based purely on community reaction and not because of data showing that the card was overpowered / overplayed. What uncompetitive archetypes have they nerfed recently only because they felt bad ? It's a real question my brain is stupid and I can't remember things.
Also I don't think they ever targeted archetypes directly with nerfs, at least not as a rule, it's always targeting the specific card so it sees less play without killing the archetype. They don't want to destroy archetypes, unless they are long grindy fatigue style decks.
One recent example would be Apotheosis and Renew. Priest was near the bottom of Tier 2 at the time, and there were much stronger, much more popular archetypes that did not get touched at all (e.g., Deathrattle Demon Hunter).
As for "cards" vs. "archetypes," you are splitting hairs. There would be no reason to nerf a card if the archetype(s) that contained it were not problematic (for some definition of "problematic").
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
They WILL nerf it again if it deserves it. Complaining about it won't increase the odds.
Given their recent propensity to nerf uncompetitive archetypes that simply "feel bad," I'd say your statement could not be further from the truth.
Asides from Barnes I don't recall any card that has been nerfed based purely on community reaction and not because of data showing that the card was overpowered / overplayed. What uncompetitive archetypes have they nerfed recently only because they felt bad ? It's a real question my brain is stupid and I can't remember things.
Also I don't think they ever targeted archetypes directly with nerfs, at least not as a rule, it's always targeting the specific card so it sees less play without killing the archetype. They don't want to destroy archetypes, unless they are long grindy fatigue style decks.
One recent example would be Apotheosis and Renew. Priest was near the bottom of Tier 2 at the time, and there were much stronger, much more popular archetypes that did not get touched at all (e.g., Deathrattle Demon Hunter).
As for "cards" vs. "archetypes," you are splitting hairs. There would be no reason to nerf a card if the archetype(s) that contained it were not problematic (for some definition of "problematic").
I mean there is no need for a reason that is just Blizzard policy with nerfs.
nerfs have 2 goals : bring the overall Hearthstone winrate closer to 50%, and/or reduce the play rate of cards that are overplayed, overpowered, or both.
They have always said that they never intend to kill an archetype, it's not me. Most of the nerfs I can think of in Hearthstone's history have kept the archetype intact.
As for priest, they specifically nerfed Apotheosis because its interaction with Blademaster Samuro was OP, no other reason, regardless of the overall priest viability. Was priest no longer tier 2 after the nerfs ? Real question again. If it wasn't then the nerfs were too severe yes. Renew I think it's because it was auto include everywhere, so it was a Fiery War Axe kind of nerf, yeah it probably damaged a bunch of archetypes cause the card went from super OP to barely playable, but it brought the card more in line with the overall game balance and that was the goal.
DH wasn't touched because there was no card in that deck that stood out so much in terms of play rate and/or win rate that Blizzard felt the need for a nerf, again regardless of the deck win rate, which was not a problem at the time.
Oh yes I remember one time they nerfed a card because of the deck win rate, it was the first Hysteria nerf because of Wretched Tiller. It can happen, but don't expect it to be a rule, it's only when things are utterly degenerate that they destroy entire decks on purpose. I guess Warsong Commander / Starving Buzzard fit in there too but those are beta nerfs.
And I think Incanter's Flow might have gotten the Barnes treatment, card wasn't super OP but super hated so they deleted it, but that's only 2 cards off the top of my head.
As for priest, they specifically nerfed Apotheosis because its interaction with Blademaster Samuro was OP, no other reason, regardless of the overall priest viability. Was priest no longer tier 2 after the nerfs ? Real question again.
I'm pretty sure it was no longer tier 2. But let's not pretend that their stated reasons are always the real reasons. They will always try to make it look like there are valid design concerns in play even when they are performing a "PR nerf." It's important to keep up the appearance that team 5 is in the driver's seat, not the community.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
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This card needs to be removed from the game plain and simple. I've been playing this game since launch, and I've played consistently since Knights of the Frozen Throne. There have been several mainstays/auto-include in decks across all classes that usually required removal cards for counter or a more aggressive strategy. Ragnaros, Lich King, Ziliax, Thaurissan, Zephrys, and Keleseth. Some of these cards are definitely more rng than others but most of the time they generated or they were must removals themselves. Not to mention THEY ARE ALL LEGENDARY!!!! now with Battlemaster you can play big minions at discount and resurrect them with warlock, stealth them with rogue, buff any mid-sized minion with paladin, priest minions which are either big already or have easy access to buffs, ramp and play big minions with druid.
The point is this is a neutral minion with legendary abilities. Until Speaker Gidra windfury has only effectively belonged to one class and that's shaman. The powerful neutral windfury minions have been Siamat and maybe stormwatcher (in arena) and back in the day windfury harpy.
There are certain cards where the developers have to stop tip-toe'ing around the nerf because they don't want to destroy the card. The thing with battlemaster is it never should have existed in the first place. How this card made it past the first stage of approval is beyond me.
I just want to be clear this is not the only problem card but it is a neutral I'm starting to see them in a lot of decks.
Google search: Is Hearthstone free to play?
Paladin is the worst for it in my experience. E.g. cleared all but two 1/1 recruits -> battlemaster + attack boost X2 = 28 face damage in one turn. From two 1/1 minions. This was pre-nerf, but the nerfs were weak so this is still doable.
Most classes have other win conditions so it can be a surprise to see them pull it out. Definitely not as prevalent post-nerf, thankfully, but I agree - I don't think it's a good card in the game.
If you don't have this card, then control matters even less. It forces the quest players to not be too greedy or risk sudden death from the board they ignored.
This card is so broken. Needs a mana increase still, 1 mana did nothing.
annoying but necessary card... fk control
you want battlemaster to get banned but stealer of souls is okay for you Omegalul. Battlemaster is just a wincon if you manage to have a sticky board witch is pretty hard these days. There are so many broken shit decks out there were you dont play a single minion and you complain about the card witch makes your deck board focused KEKW.
1) it's not even remotely close to auto-include in every class (unless mages somehow started playing minions or hunters decided that cards costing more than 5 were good to include in face decks, amongst the first that come to my mind)
2) This card is usually good at keeping greedy decks in check. Whether you like that or not is another matter entirely
3) Why does everyone have to preface everything with "I've been playing since beta, in fact I created the game in my sleep when I was 3 years old and then blizzard stole my idea"? Would your complaints have less merit if you'd started playing last March?
4) If the card is as busted as you seem to think it is, it'll be addressed again. 5 mana was way too little to pay for it but there are plenty of decks that are either very good (quest shaman, face hunter, aggro ele shaman/ele shaman, shadow priest, anacondra druid) or very popular (d6lock, quest mage) that don't use it and never will. The only class that regularly uses this card is paladin, rather literally. One variant of questlock uses it too (IIRC it's the best one, but without recent data I can't exactly be certain) and the 3 people on ladder still using quest rogue...so I seriously don't understand being so incensed about it, if I'm honest.
Removed? Hardly. Nerfed again? absolutely. I think 9 mana would be reasonable, to keep you from playing Conviction in the same turn. And I agree with those who are saying it should have been Legendary in the first place.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I like the card though, I think it's very healthy at 6 mana. Would it still see play at 7 mana ? Yeah maybe. Does that mean it should have been nerfed to 7 ? I don't know.
I don't want another Bonemare situation, I like my neutral cards more when they are playable and I don't want to wait years until they revert the nerf.
Can we please be allowed to experiment with our cards for multiple weeks before you scream in agony for a nerf/ban ? Is a whole month too much to ask ?
They WILL nerf it again if it deserves it. Complaining about it won't increase the odds. In fact you should actually play with the card to provide more data to blizzard analysts so they get a better picture.
I really think this card was designed for Battlegrounds mode as 5 star card and shuddenly some stupid developer thought "oh it would be great to make 5 mana creature of it!"
Windfury must belong to shaman and some shitty creatures.
You're putting words in my mouth through text that people can easily check and see you're just a troll. Read my post again!!! Where does it say anywhere that stealer of souls is okay?
Stop trying to create problems or arguments where they don't exist.
Google search: Is Hearthstone free to play?
I believe people including myself preface with been playing since the beginning in hopes of warding off the trolls that post something along the lines of "what is this your first expansion?" or "if you think this deck is bad did you experience this one?"
It shows that you've experienced all the highs and lows since the games inception and that you're not just whining over the first overpowered card or deck that you've experienced.
Google search: Is Hearthstone free to play?
agreed
Google search: Is Hearthstone free to play?
it's a common card that is part of my point everyone can easily get this card and like someone else mention no it doesn't show up in every single deck but it's even being exploited by the decks that people were using this card to try and beat in the first place
Google search: Is Hearthstone free to play?
Given their recent propensity to nerf uncompetitive archetypes that simply "feel bad," I'd say your statement could not be further from the truth.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Asides from Barnes I don't recall any card that has been nerfed based purely on community reaction and not because of data showing that the card was overpowered / overplayed. What uncompetitive archetypes have they nerfed recently only because they felt bad ? It's a real question my brain is stupid and I can't remember things.
Also I don't think they ever targeted archetypes directly with nerfs, at least not as a rule, it's always targeting the specific card so it sees less play without killing the archetype. They don't want to destroy archetypes, unless they are long grindy fatigue style decks.
One recent example would be Apotheosis and Renew. Priest was near the bottom of Tier 2 at the time, and there were much stronger, much more popular archetypes that did not get touched at all (e.g., Deathrattle Demon Hunter).
As for "cards" vs. "archetypes," you are splitting hairs. There would be no reason to nerf a card if the archetype(s) that contained it were not problematic (for some definition of "problematic").
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I mean there is no need for a reason that is just Blizzard policy with nerfs.
nerfs have 2 goals : bring the overall Hearthstone winrate closer to 50%, and/or reduce the play rate of cards that are overplayed, overpowered, or both.
They have always said that they never intend to kill an archetype, it's not me. Most of the nerfs I can think of in Hearthstone's history have kept the archetype intact.
As for priest, they specifically nerfed Apotheosis because its interaction with Blademaster Samuro was OP, no other reason, regardless of the overall priest viability. Was priest no longer tier 2 after the nerfs ? Real question again. If it wasn't then the nerfs were too severe yes. Renew I think it's because it was auto include everywhere, so it was a Fiery War Axe kind of nerf, yeah it probably damaged a bunch of archetypes cause the card went from super OP to barely playable, but it brought the card more in line with the overall game balance and that was the goal.
DH wasn't touched because there was no card in that deck that stood out so much in terms of play rate and/or win rate that Blizzard felt the need for a nerf, again regardless of the deck win rate, which was not a problem at the time.
Oh yes I remember one time they nerfed a card because of the deck win rate, it was the first Hysteria nerf because of Wretched Tiller. It can happen, but don't expect it to be a rule, it's only when things are utterly degenerate that they destroy entire decks on purpose. I guess Warsong Commander / Starving Buzzard fit in there too but those are beta nerfs.
And I think Incanter's Flow might have gotten the Barnes treatment, card wasn't super OP but super hated so they deleted it, but that's only 2 cards off the top of my head.
I'm pretty sure it was no longer tier 2. But let's not pretend that their stated reasons are always the real reasons. They will always try to make it look like there are valid design concerns in play even when they are performing a "PR nerf." It's important to keep up the appearance that team 5 is in the driver's seat, not the community.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland