The card will never recover from this nerf..all the way from a 0 mana 8/8 to a 0 mana 8/8.
This card carries both spell quest and zoo quest warlock. With two copies of Raise Dead in every warlock you'll be facing it 3 or 4 times, sometimes more - if they can drop it early and you happen to somehow have the hard removal for it you really need when an 8/8 hits the board that early...well... you get mega punished for that, like how big priest used to punish you for putting a mana cheated card in the graveyard. How is being punished for having an unlikely answer ok? Sea and Mountain Giants forced a fairly heavy requirement (wide board or wide hand), this fucker hits zero just through playing out the deck, which provides a strong enough reward as it is. What exactly was the point of a 1 mana nerf on this card?
Were people expecting Flesh Giant to be unplayable after a 1 mana increase? Did you hope it would be unplayable? Is that a desired design approach? Hit every strong card in the game with a Il'gynoth shaped bat until it is no longer worth playing?
It was still a good nerf though, one of warlocks power plays was: T1-quest, T2-tap, T3-tap tour guide, tap 4 giant. That is now delayed by an entire turn, people seem to be unaware of the implications of a card coming down an entire turn later.
Flesh Giant is still a strong card but it for sure is not the warlock card to be concerned about right now.
It was still a good nerf though, one of warlocks power plays was: T1-quest, T2-tap, T3-tap tour guide, tap 4 giant. That is now delayed by an entire turn, people seem to be unaware of the implications of a card coming down an entire turn later.
That was the most extreme, most perfect example of Flesh Giant play, but it's not what made the card oppressive. The problems with the card are the endless stream of them coming from Raise Dead and the combo with Battlemaster. You are eventually unable to clear them, and then suddenly they have Windfury.
So really, the delay only keeps it in sync with Battlemaster, which is now also a turn later. It's not like this has to come together exactly on turn 5 to be ridiculous.
If they changed the text to only reduce the cost when you take damage, and keep the 9 mana cost, would players finally be happy with the state of the card or are we just going to butcher it and make it cost 20 mana ala starving buzzard, or completely destroy its idendity ala warsong commander ?
It was still a good nerf though, one of warlocks power plays was: T1-quest, T2-tap, T3-tap tour guide, tap 4 giant. That is now delayed by an entire turn, people seem to be unaware of the implications of a card coming down an entire turn later.
That was the most extreme, most perfect example of Flesh Giant play, but it's not what made the card oppressive. The problems with the card are the endless stream of them coming from Raise Dead and the combo with Battlemaster. You are eventually unable to clear them, and then suddenly they have Windfury.
So really, the delay only keeps it in sync with Battlemaster, which is now also a turn later. It's not like this has to come together exactly on turn 5 to be ridiculous.
Yeah, it is one turn later in an aggro / combo meta. It is still a strong card, its synergy with raise dead is makes it even better, but again, right now Flesh Giant is 100% not the card to be outraged about.
Flesh Giant is 100% not the card to be outraged about.
Right, but it's the one this thread is about. Everyone agrees that Soul Stealer is the real problem.
You are right but its still fair game to point out to the op the he apparently doesn ot get the bigger picture. Its like opening a thread for tracking because you just lost to face Hunter, just does not make much sense.
Flesh Giant is 100% not the card to be outraged about.
Right, but it's the one this thread is about. Everyone agrees that Soul Stealer is the real problem.
You are right but its still fair game to point out to the op the he apparently doesn ot get the bigger picture. Its like opening a thread for tracking because you just lost to face Hunter, just does not make much sense.
It's a quest deck, you expect the quest reward to be the win condition - Blizzard designs decks in packages these days, even over several expansions. Complain about one card you are essentially complaining about them all. Soul stealer is part of the package.
What is not fitting with the theme of the deck IMO is a chain of 0 mana massive minions that often get windfury the moment you fail to remove them. This is an aspect to quest warlock that is just ...not needed IMO. Feel free to disagree with me, but don't give that BS about 'not seeing the bigger picture', or weird ass comparisons with cards unrelated cards in different classes.
In the "nohands handquestlock" you are talking about the quest is not how you are killing your opponent, its main purpse is to accelerate giants and keep you alive while doing so, it also serves as a backup plan if you eventually end up playing against a control deck that manages to clear all your threats.
But that deck, compared to the D6 Version of the deck, is horrible. Thats a fact. And you can keep going on about how Flesh Giant is such a strong and unfair card or "how it does not fit with the theme of the deck" or whatever else exactly your argument is, but that whole rant you have going just sounds ridiculous.
Also that "not fitting with the theme of the deck" statement is probably one of the biggest wtf moments i had while reading comments on this site, yes you are right, blizazrd very obviously designs cards with a certain archetype in mind like "freeze mage" or "hand lock", however how palyers eventually fill up the gaps in between is the very essence of deckbuilding in a card game. Just because someone including giants in his version of quest lock does not fit with your vision of what quest lock is supposed to be does not make flesh giant any more problematic than it really is.
Yes it's strong, yes WL rezzing them over and over again with raise dead is outrageous at times, but for the love of whatever is holy to you let people be able to have some strong plays left, not everything that is strong needs a nerf, and if nerfs were to hit again, it most certainly is not flesh giant that needs some more attention.
Also that "not fitting with the theme of the deck" statement is probably one of the biggest wtf moments i had while reading comments on this site, yes you are right, blizazrd very obviously designs cards with a certain archetype in mind like "freeze mage" or "hand lock", however how palyers eventually fill up the gaps in between is the very essence of deckbuilding in a card game. Just because someone including giants in his version of quest lock does not fit with your vision of what quest lock is supposed to be does not make flesh giant any more problematic than it really is.
IMO Your defense of the card sounds ridiculous, not my rant. Blizzard aren't going to nerf the quest (or any quest for any class for that matter, it's too embarassing for them, and too dust expensive), and it is only after the warlock quest was added and it's other enabling packaged cards that Flesh Giant became a problem.
So it either comes down to Stealer of Souls, which I happen to think fits the theme of the deck better, or the giant, which I honestly think was overlooked to some extent by blizzard when creating the archerytype. The half acknowledged this by nerfing it, unlike you, but at only 1 mana the nerf was verging on pointless.
"Strong plays" are fine, but that didn't used to include 0 mana rezable 8/8s from turn 4 onwards while progressing your other win condition, it is total BS. That is not 'strong', you said it yourself - it's outrageous.
You are right but its still fair game to point out to the op the he apparently doesn ot get the bigger picture.
No, it's weirdly pedantic to point that out. Flesh Giant was just nerfed, and they are talking about how little impact that nerf is having. It's a recent development in the Hearthstone world, so of course it's reasonable to want to discuss it.
If you want to talk about Stealer, go make your own thread.
I love how they been slowly nerfing Priest patch by patch since the beggining of Barrens
Priest was basically unplayable during Barrens, then reasonably playable when Stormwind came out. I find it a little strange to characterize that as a steady decline. The Flesh Giant nerf is not a big deal for either Warlock or Priest.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
You are all wrong. Flesh Giant is not the issue... But fixing Stealer of Souls won't change much either. Like yes Stealer allows you to cheese a lot of shit but there are a lot of decks that don't play stealer and they still complete the quest fast and have very strong turns. I've seen questlock running the mill package and it's insane, running the handlock stuff and it's stil insane, zoo with and without stealer adn they're all good decks. So yeah they can nerf Stealer, completely delete it from the game but there are still other ways to build the deck by adding other small packages which effectively keep the archetype as a whole busted.
You are right but its still fair game to point out to the op the he apparently doesn ot get the bigger picture.
No, it's weirdly pedantic to point that out. Flesh Giant was just nerfed, and they are talking about how little impact that nerf is having. It's a recent development in the Hearthstone world, so of course it's reasonable to want to discuss it.
If you want to talk about Stealer, go make your own thread.
The OP himself said if you talk about one card you allready talk about the deck as a whole, so how is it now fitting if include Stealer of Souls in the discussion? What i want to know as when you people will be happy? When the card is on the verge of being playable? Or just when it is so bad it is no longer worth including?
You also fail to ackknowledge that the nerf did have an impact, it again Flesh Giant is not the issue here, imagine barrens priest going up against this deck, shadow word horror (discovered), hysteria, soul mirror, what are thy going to do? Same for control warrior, brawl, blade storm, barov, shield slam deals with those giants quite nicely and would jsut run the deck out of ressources eventually.
Now comes the problem though, the real problem, because while giant still is strong, they are just going to kill you with quest once you dealt with their threats and there is 0 counterplay to that. So instead of making Giants unplayable start talking about the real issue.
Flesh Giant
The card will never recover from this nerf..all the way from a 0 mana 8/8 to a 0 mana 8/8.
This card carries both spell quest and zoo quest warlock. With two copies of Raise Dead in every warlock you'll be facing it 3 or 4 times, sometimes more - if they can drop it early and you happen to somehow have the hard removal for it you really need when an 8/8 hits the board that early...well... you get mega punished for that, like how big priest used to punish you for putting a mana cheated card in the graveyard. How is being punished for having an unlikely answer ok? Sea and Mountain Giants forced a fairly heavy requirement (wide board or wide hand), this fucker hits zero just through playing out the deck, which provides a strong enough reward as it is. What exactly was the point of a 1 mana nerf on this card?
We really have to open a new thread for every card and every thing that bothers people ? Im pretty sure there's one about warlock already.
Were people expecting Flesh Giant to be unplayable after a 1 mana increase? Did you hope it would be unplayable? Is that a desired design approach? Hit every strong card in the game with a Il'gynoth shaped bat until it is no longer worth playing?
It was still a good nerf though, one of warlocks power plays was: T1-quest, T2-tap, T3-tap tour guide, tap 4 giant. That is now delayed by an entire turn, people seem to be unaware of the implications of a card coming down an entire turn later.
Flesh Giant is still a strong card but it for sure is not the warlock card to be concerned about right now.
That was the most extreme, most perfect example of Flesh Giant play, but it's not what made the card oppressive. The problems with the card are the endless stream of them coming from Raise Dead and the combo with Battlemaster. You are eventually unable to clear them, and then suddenly they have Windfury.
So really, the delay only keeps it in sync with Battlemaster, which is now also a turn later. It's not like this has to come together exactly on turn 5 to be ridiculous.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
If they changed the text to only reduce the cost when you take damage, and keep the 9 mana cost, would players finally be happy with the state of the card or are we just going to butcher it and make it cost 20 mana ala starving buzzard, or completely destroy its idendity ala warsong commander ?
Just play quest mage, then you have infinite 0 mana fireballs that deal 10 damage at your disposal.
Obviously not a problematic card to begin with.
Obviously.
Yeah, it is one turn later in an aggro / combo meta. It is still a strong card, its synergy with raise dead is makes it even better, but again, right now Flesh Giant is 100% not the card to be outraged about.
Right, but it's the one this thread is about. Everyone agrees that Soul Stealer is the real problem.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
You are right but its still fair game to point out to the op the he apparently doesn ot get the bigger picture. Its like opening a thread for tracking because you just lost to face Hunter, just does not make much sense.
It's a quest deck, you expect the quest reward to be the win condition - Blizzard designs decks in packages these days, even over several expansions. Complain about one card you are essentially complaining about them all. Soul stealer is part of the package.
What is not fitting with the theme of the deck IMO is a chain of 0 mana massive minions that often get windfury the moment you fail to remove them. This is an aspect to quest warlock that is just ...not needed IMO. Feel free to disagree with me, but don't give that BS about 'not seeing the bigger picture', or weird ass comparisons with cards unrelated cards in different classes.
In the "nohands handquestlock" you are talking about the quest is not how you are killing your opponent, its main purpse is to accelerate giants and keep you alive while doing so, it also serves as a backup plan if you eventually end up playing against a control deck that manages to clear all your threats.
But that deck, compared to the D6 Version of the deck, is horrible. Thats a fact. And you can keep going on about how Flesh Giant is such a strong and unfair card or "how it does not fit with the theme of the deck" or whatever else exactly your argument is, but that whole rant you have going just sounds ridiculous.
Also that "not fitting with the theme of the deck" statement is probably one of the biggest wtf moments i had while reading comments on this site, yes you are right, blizazrd very obviously designs cards with a certain archetype in mind like "freeze mage" or "hand lock", however how palyers eventually fill up the gaps in between is the very essence of deckbuilding in a card game. Just because someone including giants in his version of quest lock does not fit with your vision of what quest lock is supposed to be does not make flesh giant any more problematic than it really is.
Yes it's strong, yes WL rezzing them over and over again with raise dead is outrageous at times, but for the love of whatever is holy to you let people be able to have some strong plays left, not everything that is strong needs a nerf, and if nerfs were to hit again, it most certainly is not flesh giant that needs some more attention.
IMO Your defense of the card sounds ridiculous, not my rant. Blizzard aren't going to nerf the quest (or any quest for any class for that matter, it's too embarassing for them, and too dust expensive), and it is only after the warlock quest was added and it's other enabling packaged cards that Flesh Giant became a problem.
So it either comes down to Stealer of Souls, which I happen to think fits the theme of the deck better, or the giant, which I honestly think was overlooked to some extent by blizzard when creating the archerytype. The half acknowledged this by nerfing it, unlike you, but at only 1 mana the nerf was verging on pointless.
"Strong plays" are fine, but that didn't used to include 0 mana rezable 8/8s from turn 4 onwards while progressing your other win condition, it is total BS. That is not 'strong', you said it yourself - it's outrageous.
No, it's weirdly pedantic to point that out. Flesh Giant was just nerfed, and they are talking about how little impact that nerf is having. It's a recent development in the Hearthstone world, so of course it's reasonable to want to discuss it.
If you want to talk about Stealer, go make your own thread.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I love how they been slowly nerfing Priest patch by patch since the beggining of Barrens
next patch they'll nerf Voidtouched Attendant, the only last good card Priest has, and the class will cease to exist alltogether.
Priest was basically unplayable during Barrens, then reasonably playable when Stormwind came out. I find it a little strange to characterize that as a steady decline. The Flesh Giant nerf is not a big deal for either Warlock or Priest.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
was just watching monty python :)
I've had worse!
You are all wrong. Flesh Giant is not the issue... But fixing Stealer of Souls won't change much either. Like yes Stealer allows you to cheese a lot of shit but there are a lot of decks that don't play stealer and they still complete the quest fast and have very strong turns. I've seen questlock running the mill package and it's insane, running the handlock stuff and it's stil insane, zoo with and without stealer adn they're all good decks. So yeah they can nerf Stealer, completely delete it from the game but there are still other ways to build the deck by adding other small packages which effectively keep the archetype as a whole busted.
The OP himself said if you talk about one card you allready talk about the deck as a whole, so how is it now fitting if include Stealer of Souls in the discussion? What i want to know as when you people will be happy? When the card is on the verge of being playable? Or just when it is so bad it is no longer worth including?
You also fail to ackknowledge that the nerf did have an impact, it again Flesh Giant is not the issue here, imagine barrens priest going up against this deck, shadow word horror (discovered), hysteria, soul mirror, what are thy going to do? Same for control warrior, brawl, blade storm, barov, shield slam deals with those giants quite nicely and would jsut run the deck out of ressources eventually.
Now comes the problem though, the real problem, because while giant still is strong, they are just going to kill you with quest once you dealt with their threats and there is 0 counterplay to that. So instead of making Giants unplayable start talking about the real issue.
to be real here, this card needs to cost like 12 mana and would still be reasonable to play