My takes (I mostly ignore stat changes on minions): - Incanter's Flow for Mage to 3 mana - big thumbs up. Round 3 to do nothing and then another for another nothing. It's a huge deal. - Darkglare in Warlock to 3 Mana - again, good change - Flesh Giant to 9 Mana - not sure if this will matter that much but it does mean that you won't be able to drop them as consistently as before so should slow down games without killing the card - Battleground Battlemaster to 6 Mana - the best change but it's still strong at 6 - Conviction (Rank 1) to 2 Mana for Paladin - fantastic change, it was a long time coming. For what this card does it was undervalued - Kolkar Pack Runner to 3 mana for Hunter but stickier at 4 health- another great change, will this slow Hunters down? YES! - Granite Forgeborn health down to 4 from 5 - totally irrelevant change, to show that they're doing something about Elem Shaman without actually doing it. This deck will pop even more due to other nerfs - Il'gynoth from 4 to 6 mana to hit DH - the true solitaire deck of this expansion, hopefully dead an buried. With all the quest discounts I am not so sure but thinking it through it would rely on drawing Il'gynoth early for the discounts to apply to it and all combo pieces to come together in any reasonable time. I hope this will become a meme fringe deck at best. I will dust it and craft something I like.
Notable absentees: - The Demon Seed - oops! We thought that moaning has started, leaving this alone will cause an uproar. People forget that the pure Quest version isn't THAT strong and the Zoolock variant just got hit so I think we should wait and see what happens - Stealer of Souls - it's not nice to lose against it but in Standard it is really not that much of a problem at the moment. Now, because meta should (will?) slow down it might become a problem but again, we have to wait and see.
Casual stupid dogs from Blizzard. This nerfs so bad and useless on paper. Where is Lock's quest? How long Sorcerer's Apprentice will be so broken? Why they scared so much to make big changes(or real) changes,
My takes (I mostly ignore stat changes on minions): - Incanter's Flow for Mage to 3 mana - this is NOT enough! Should have changed it to only hit specific spells (discover fire/arcane/frost and reduce all spells of the chosen spell school; or reduce only arcane spells; or reduce to 1 or more mana) - Darkglare in Warlock to 3 Mana - Ok change - Flesh Giant to 9 Mana - NOT enough. 10 Mana at minimum - Battleground Battlemaster to 6 Mana - I agree with you, seems like a good nerf. - Conviction to 2 Mana for Paladin - I think +2 Attack would be better, maybe even +1 Attack because Battlemaster exists - Kolkar Pack Runner to 3 mana for Hunter but stickier at 4 mana - This seems fine - Granite Forgeborn health down to 4 from 5 (Shaman, it's Battlecry reduces the cost of elementals in hand and deck by 1) - Totally irrelevant change, as you put it. They should have at the very least reverted the buff to the 5/6 Hex Elemental for 5 in addition. But honestly, Doomhammer to 1/8 for 6 mana - Il'gynoth from 4 to 6 mana to hit DH - This nerf is an exageration imo. 5 mana would have been fine. If that's not enough, reduce the cost reduction of other cards (e.g. remove it from the Sigil)
Notable absentees: - Demon Seed - The quest is actually not the problem. If anything, +1 damage per phase or -1 healing per phase reward. - Stealer of Souls - THIS is the actual problem. THIS is the card that should be moved to 6 mana over Ilgynoth. Well, maybe that's too much, but you get my point. This card is just awful on so many levels, it should be nerfed into the ground.
What are your thoughts?
Since you were asking...Also, why on freaking earth is Lightning Bloom still unnerfed? That's just dumb (not that it's particularly broken in this meta, just a general remark).
Absolutely garbage nerfs... The most problematic cards didn't change at all. Like Stealer of Souls, Ignite, The Demon Seed. All of them limit future design space and also solving of the biggest drawbacks of decks, which draw quickly.
And they killed the Demon Hunter legendary, which I haven't really experienced against me at all.
I'm now moving to Battlegrounds or offline.
I'm sure, that Blizzard nerfed those cards mostly because of the dust refunds... Greedy company with so many bugs and glitches.
I've just thought that the combination of Battlemaster and Conviction nerfs really hit Paladin's gameplan. Conviction can be discounted with Cariel still but can't see both of those cards being played in one turn unless very late in the game.
Flesh Giants - now need to think whether to keep it in mulligan. It will be really hard to drop it on turn 5. Hmm, it might actually be dead.
Absolutely garbage nerfs... The most problematic cards didn't change at all. Like Stealer of Souls, Ignite, The Demon Seed. All of them limit future design space and also solving of the biggest drawbacks of decks, which draw quickly.
And they killed the Demon Hunter legendary, which I haven't really experienced against me at all.
I'm now moving to Battlegrounds or offline.
I'm sure, that Blizzard nerfed those cards mostly because of the dust refunds... Greedy company with so many bugs and glitches.
I've just thought that the combination of Battlemaster and Conviction nerfs really hit Paladin's gameplan. Conviction can be discounted with Cariel still but can't see both of those cards being played in one turn unless very late in the game.
Flesh Giants - now need to think whether to keep it in mulligan. It will be really hard to drop it on turn 5. Hmm, it might actually be dead.
It doesn't effect much of what I'm doing these days. I think it's all fair. Not too crazy, maybe just right?
People will nevertheless be impossible to satisfy with nerfs, so I think the approach of making small changes and seeing how it goes is just fine.
I think everyone tends to underestimate the impact 1 mana can make on a card, even if the stats are changed to match it. We'll no doubt see the rise of new decks to challenge everyone's patience and be the topic of discussion until the next round of nerfs.
Once again, they've mostly nerfed Tier 2 decks because they care more about community perception than actual facts. At least they did hit Paladin where it hurts -- though to be fair, Battlemaster was problematic in a number of classes.
As for their claim that this will slow the meta enough for slower strategies to succeed, color me skeptical.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Once again, they've mostly nerfed Tier 2 decks because they care more about community perception than actual facts. At least they did hit Paladin where it hurts -- though to be fair, Battlemaster was problematic in a number of classes.
As for their claim that this will slow the meta enough for slower strategies to succeed, color me skeptical.
Depends on what you consider a "slower strategy". For quest priest to be any good, you would have to nerf around 15 cards functionally, which they would never dare to do. It was predictable that this is going to be rather soft except for maybe for paladin. Leaving Stealer of Souls unnerfed is nothing but a terrible joke at this point tbh.
Overall i like the philosophy of these nerfs because it will have an impact but without killing the cards
There are still some problems though :
- Shaman needed more nerf. With the nerfs to other classes and the ridiculous nerf to Granite forgeborn (0 impact), Shaman will be over dominant. Mainly elemental shaman but we might be worried about Quest shaman, the deck is very strong and was kept away from being problematic by Warlock and mage. Now the fact Warlock and Mage nerfs are not too harsh makes me think that Quest sham won't be a problem as much as Elem sham.
- I'm a little bit worried for Paladin. The class was carried by the Battlemaster + conviction combo. Handbuff is still a thing but it might struggle too much to close games against combo decks which will still be there, just slower !
- It's sad to see DH will only have one viable archetype with deathrattle now. Don't make me wrong, i think OTK DH had to be destroyed. The deck was too good at everything, although the high skillcap made that casuals didn't notice the problem. But at high legend it was really disgusting.
- The quest warlock that was running weapon - glare - stealer will be problematic : Mage one of it's biggest enemy is nerfed and the meta will slow down making the deck even better. It will need more nerf. Hopefully stealer is hit and not the quest.
Balance Changes Coming Tomorrow - 8 Changes In Total! - News - HearthPwn
My takes (I mostly ignore stat changes on minions):
- Incanter's Flow for Mage to 3 mana - big thumbs up. Round 3 to do nothing and then another for another nothing. It's a huge deal.
- Darkglare in Warlock to 3 Mana - again, good change
- Flesh Giant to 9 Mana - not sure if this will matter that much but it does mean that you won't be able to drop them as consistently as before so should slow down games without killing the card
- Battleground Battlemaster to 6 Mana - the best change but it's still strong at 6
- Conviction (Rank 1) to 2 Mana for Paladin - fantastic change, it was a long time coming. For what this card does it was undervalued
- Kolkar Pack Runner to 3 mana for Hunter but stickier at 4 health- another great change, will this slow Hunters down? YES!
- Granite Forgeborn health down to 4 from 5 - totally irrelevant change, to show that they're doing something about Elem Shaman without actually doing it. This deck will pop even more due to other nerfs
- Il'gynoth from 4 to 6 mana to hit DH - the true solitaire deck of this expansion, hopefully dead an buried. With all the quest discounts I am not so sure but thinking it through it would rely on drawing Il'gynoth early for the discounts to apply to it and all combo pieces to come together in any reasonable time. I hope this will become a meme fringe deck at best. I will dust it and craft something I like.
Notable absentees:
- The Demon Seed - oops! We thought that moaning has started, leaving this alone will cause an uproar. People forget that the pure Quest version isn't THAT strong and the Zoolock variant just got hit so I think we should wait and see what happens
- Stealer of Souls - it's not nice to lose against it but in Standard it is really not that much of a problem at the moment. Now, because meta should (will?) slow down it might become a problem but again, we have to wait and see.
What are your thoughts?
I think Blizzard dodged giving out too much dust by leaving all the quests intact.
10/10 nerfs, except the giant one, in my opinion goob job
Casual stupid dogs from Blizzard. This nerfs so bad and useless on paper. Where is Lock's quest? How long Sorcerer's Apprentice will be so broken? Why they scared so much to make big changes(or real) changes,
Since you were asking...Also, why on freaking earth is Lightning Bloom still unnerfed? That's just dumb (not that it's particularly broken in this meta, just a general remark).
I just wish Flesh Giant would go to 10 mana so it doesn't break my even warlock deck but hey, not a big deal I guess.
I agree and/or don't care with most nerfs, and I'm quite happy they didn't nerf the warlock quest. I'm ready for your hatred guys.
Darkglare is still extremely good and sometimes better due to +1 health
Conviction was to be expected like why was this ranked spell even 1 mana to begin with, all the other ranked spells are 2 mana.
I didn't know Kolkar Pack Runner and Granite Forgeborn were oppressive though. Big nerf for kolkar, not sure he will survive.
Absolutely garbage nerfs... The most problematic cards didn't change at all. Like Stealer of Souls, Ignite, The Demon Seed. All of them limit future design space and also solving of the biggest drawbacks of decks, which draw quickly.
And they killed the Demon Hunter legendary, which I haven't really experienced against me at all.
I'm now moving to Battlegrounds or offline.
I'm sure, that Blizzard nerfed those cards mostly because of the dust refunds... Greedy company with so many bugs and glitches.
I've just thought that the combination of Battlemaster and Conviction nerfs really hit Paladin's gameplan. Conviction can be discounted with Cariel still but can't see both of those cards being played in one turn unless very late in the game.
Flesh Giants - now need to think whether to keep it in mulligan. It will be really hard to drop it on turn 5. Hmm, it might actually be dead.
Bye
lol no
This looks like Shaman meta
So wild cares?
Face hunter for life I guess
Mage Paladin and Warlock care a little bit I guess.
Darkglare and quest warlock are going to need another turn before crushing control fools.
If Incanter's Flow's nerf works, mage is going to play minions again !
Conviction is now an even paladin card, odd paladin is sad
It doesn't effect much of what I'm doing these days. I think it's all fair. Not too crazy, maybe just right?
People will nevertheless be impossible to satisfy with nerfs, so I think the approach of making small changes and seeing how it goes is just fine.
I think everyone tends to underestimate the impact 1 mana can make on a card, even if the stats are changed to match it. We'll no doubt see the rise of new decks to challenge everyone's patience and be the topic of discussion until the next round of nerfs.
Spin the wheel! Who'll it be this time...!
Once again, they've mostly nerfed Tier 2 decks because they care more about community perception than actual facts. At least they did hit Paladin where it hurts -- though to be fair, Battlemaster was problematic in a number of classes.
As for their claim that this will slow the meta enough for slower strategies to succeed, color me skeptical.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Thanks for Granite guy nerf, I was needing the dust, -1 health does nothing, the important part is the elementals discount
OTK DH is dead with main combo piece costing 6, unless someone find a way
Battlemaster to 6, flow, kolkar and darkglare to 3, and conviction to 2 were expected nerfs, probably playable despite of being slower
Flesh Giant costing one more means that there won’t be turn 4 giants anymore, still playable though
I was expecting more from nerfs, like why didn’t they hit stealer of souls? it’s the biggest offender of quest warlock
Depends on what you consider a "slower strategy". For quest priest to be any good, you would have to nerf around 15 cards functionally, which they would never dare to do. It was predictable that this is going to be rather soft except for maybe for paladin. Leaving Stealer of Souls unnerfed is nothing but a terrible joke at this point tbh.
I've got 10 Battlemaster's. One golden. And i got 5 Granite's, one being golden too. I think i get a free legendary of my choice.
Overall i like the philosophy of these nerfs because it will have an impact but without killing the cards
There are still some problems though :
- Shaman needed more nerf. With the nerfs to other classes and the ridiculous nerf to Granite forgeborn (0 impact), Shaman will be over dominant. Mainly elemental shaman but we might be worried about Quest shaman, the deck is very strong and was kept away from being problematic by Warlock and mage. Now the fact Warlock and Mage nerfs are not too harsh makes me think that Quest sham won't be a problem as much as Elem sham.
- I'm a little bit worried for Paladin. The class was carried by the Battlemaster + conviction combo. Handbuff is still a thing but it might struggle too much to close games against combo decks which will still be there, just slower !
- It's sad to see DH will only have one viable archetype with deathrattle now. Don't make me wrong, i think OTK DH had to be destroyed. The deck was too good at everything, although the high skillcap made that casuals didn't notice the problem. But at high legend it was really disgusting.
- The quest warlock that was running weapon - glare - stealer will be problematic : Mage one of it's biggest enemy is nerfed and the meta will slow down making the deck even better. It will need more nerf. Hopefully stealer is hit and not the quest.