I just found out yesterday that the new Tamsin hero skins have a unique voice line for when you play Twisting Nether.
It is cool as heck and nobody will ever hear it because nobody is playing Twisting Nether. And if you do play it in your deck, you'll never get to use it because the board of 8/8s you need to use it on just killed you at turn 6.
I just found out yesterday that the new Tamsin hero skins have a unique voice line for when you play Twisting Nether.
It is cool as heck and nobody will ever hear it because nobody is playing Twisting Nether. And if you do play it in your deck, you'll never get to use it because the board of 8/8s you need to use it on just killed you at turn 6.
What a world we live play in, huh?
Sure, but it is what it is. Meta is super fast and aggressive now, so the only way to survive is to adapt to it (even Priest did that, creating probably the fastest aggro deck currently available!). And it's not like a single card, deck or class is responsible for that, it's Team 5's new design philosophy. They can nerf Warlock to the ground, but that won't change anything as there are many similar decks (Quest Mage, Quest Shaman, Quest Hunter, Secret Paladin and so on). Control (in the classic sense) is dead, so I'm trying to enjoy what's left of it and Handlock is probably the closest thing we can get, though Quest Shaman could also be a worthy candidate.
I just found out yesterday that the new Tamsin hero skins have a unique voice line for when you play Twisting Nether.
It is cool as heck and nobody will ever hear it because nobody is playing Twisting Nether. And if you do play it in your deck, you'll never get to use it because the board of 8/8s you need to use it on just killed you at turn 6.
What a world we live play in, huh?
Sure, but it is what it is. Meta is super fast and aggressive now, so the only way to survive is to adapt to it (even Priest did that, creating probably the fastest aggro deck currently available!). And it's not like a single card, deck or class is responsible for that, it's Team 5's new design philosophy. They can nerf Warlock to the ground, but that won't change anything as there are many similar decks (Quest Mage, Quest Shaman, Quest Hunter, Secret Paladin and so on). Control (in the classic sense) is dead, so I'm trying to enjoy what's left of it and Handlock is probably the closest thing.
Yeah, I hear ya. I'm also just trying to adapt to how things are. I think a lot of people just share the sentiment that it's unfortunate the game has become what it is right now. Because a lot of cards will go unused since you just can't use them in a competitive deck. (Like my note above about Twisting Nether)
I mean, it's entirely possible that they release in future expansions or mini sets cards that boost the power level of control decks and make it more viable, but it's pretty unlikely given their vocalization of a faster games design philosophy.
Also, since most of the quest rewards are "game enders" in some way or another, until they rotate out of standard, games will always have an inevitable finish. Some faster than others.
I just found out yesterday that the new Tamsin hero skins have a unique voice line for when you play Twisting Nether.
It is cool as heck and nobody will ever hear it because nobody is playing Twisting Nether. And if you do play it in your deck, you'll never get to use it because the board of 8/8s you need to use it on just killed you at turn 6.
What a world we live play in, huh?
Sure, but it is what it is. Meta is super fast and aggressive now, so the only way to survive is to adapt to it (even Priest did that, creating probably the fastest aggro deck currently available!). And it's not like a single card, deck or class is responsible for that, it's Team 5's new design philosophy. They can nerf Warlock to the ground, but that won't change anything as there are many similar decks (Quest Mage, Quest Shaman, Quest Hunter, Secret Paladin and so on). Control (in the classic sense) is dead, so I'm trying to enjoy what's left of it and Handlock is probably the closest thing we can get, though Quest Shaman could also be a worthy candidate.
None of those other decks make it impossible for control to win.
Quest Mage does need a hit, and I think Shaman needs their 1-drop elemental nerfed to 2 health. But it is possible to run them out of resources, Quest Mage does put a timer on you with Ignite but if you can put out enough chonky minions and force them to use their burn cards you can win.
Same with quest hunter. Their damage from hand in the best case scenario maxes around 24, so if you keep yourself high and keep board control you can beat them.
Secret pally just isn't a big deal tbh it's so easy to play around because you know the entire makeup of their deck and it's super easy to know what they're playing.
Warlock is about 70% of the problem facing control. You can't run them out of resources, because all that does is increase the damage they deal to you. And they don't need to worry about the board because they can throw 100% of their resources at your board, never hit you in the face once, and still win. The only thing you can do is pop their 2/5, or Stealer of Souls if they drop one early.
None of those other decks make it impossible for control to win.
Quest Mage can OTK you, you can't fatigue her and she has infinite damage so you will die eventually. Quest Shaman, Quest Hunter and Bleed Rogue can OTK you too, so unless you can stack tons of armor, you will die no matter what.
Quest Mage does put a timer on you with Ignite but if you can put out enough chonky minions and force them to use their burn cards you can win.
Except you can't. Try to beat Quest Mage with Handlock (aka 100% board-based deck) and you'll see why. She will either freeze either destroy anything you play and then burst you down. You can only beat her with wide boards (zoo, tokens) or burst damage from hand, but control can't do any of that.
Same with quest hunter. Their damage from hand in the best case scenario maxes around 24, so if you keep yourself high and keep board control you can beat them.
Unfortunately but no. Yesterday I was playing Quest Control Priest against Quest Hunter and he bursted me from 30 to 0 in a single turn...
Secret pally just isn't a big deal tbh it's so easy to play around because you know the entire makeup of their deck and it's super easy to know what they're playing.
If so, why Control Prest (aka the only real control deck in this meta) has so low win rates against all kinds of Paladin (Secret, Handbuff, Quest, even old Libram)?
Warlock is about 70% of the problem facing control. You can't run them out of resources, because all that does is increase the damage they deal to you. And they don't need to worry about the board because they can throw 100% of their resources at your board, never hit you in the face once, and still win.
Thing is, this matchup always will be polarized. No control deck can beat Warlock as long as he has quest or Tickatus. But take them away and Warlock won't win a single game against control decks, because he lacks burst damage and value generation. Board damage is not enough against control decks, because it's too unreliable.
The only thing you can do is pop their 2/5, or Stealer of Souls if they drop one early.
Sure, but I don't really care about SoS. As for me, they can delete him from the game completely. I was talking about Handlock all that time.
I miss it so much I stopped playing. The sad thing is I don't see i getting much better. The current dev team just doesnt seem interested in making slow control strats viable anymore.
I miss it so much I stopped playing. The sad thing is I don't see i getting much better. The current dev team just doesnt seem interested in making slow control strats viable anymore.
Try Handlock or Quest Shaman. They are as control-ish as they can be in this meta, maybe you'll like one of them.
To be honest, slow control was also often a non-interactive strategy for other players. Kill everything your opponent plays, when everything is totally clear, play massive greedy threats. It's a bit of a crummy thing to just play not to lose, and after some thought, I don't miss it. I just think the current combo decks are a bit too fast and consistent though, too competitive against decks that normally beat that style of play, and I get people's argument that many cards will never see play because of the speed of the meta. Lastly, nothing should invalidate fatigue or generate infinite burn spells.
To be honest, slow control was also often a non-interactive strategy for other players. Kill everything your opponent plays, when everything is totally clear, play massive greedy threats. It's a bit of a crummy thing to just play not to lose, and after some thought, I don't miss it.
I agree 100%. I find it funny when control players complain about “there’s no interaction” when during the times control was dominant, they were the only ones making plays while their opponents could do nothing to mount an offensive.
Hearthstone is great when your play style is doing well, and a complete mess when your play style can’t win.
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Grammar is the difference between knowing your crap, and knowing you’re crap.
To be honest, slow control was also often a non-interactive strategy for other players. Kill everything your opponent plays, when everything is totally clear, play massive greedy threats. It's a bit of a crummy thing to just play not to lose, and after some thought, I don't miss it.
I agree 100%. I find it funny when control players complain about “there’s no interaction” when during the times control was dominant, they were the only ones making plays while their opponents could do nothing to mount an offensive.
Hearthstone is great when your play style is doing well, and a complete mess when your play style can’t win.
I don't know that I agree. Slow control gets stomped by combo. So, if there is a decent combo deck in the meta you can choose that.
I also remember recently playing a slow control deck and I couldn't beat highlander hunter. I guess I would call that a mid-range deck. But, it relied on minions to some degree. A lot of those minions were hard to remove before they did their damage though. Point being, that you could beat a heavy control deck with either combo or the right mid-range deck. Only aggro really suffered. And to me that is how it should be. What we have now is a bit of a wreck IMHO.
Control is the reason I play CCGs, aggro is just degenerate I don't know how anyone can enjoy it, and the combo decks in hearthstone today can't be interacted with which is stupid.
I truly miss the hour-long control vs control match-ups where each player is squeezing every drop of value they can find, it may seem boring but literally EVERY move, every card you play and when you play it effects the game. It's like a chess match and it's so satisfying.
Control is the reason I play CCGs, aggro is just degenerate I don't know how anyone can enjoy it, and the combo decks in hearthstone today can't be interacted with which is stupid.
I truly miss the hour-long control vs control match-ups where each player is squeezing every drop of value they can find, it may seem boring but literally EVERY move, every card you play and when you play it effects the game. It's like a chess match and it's so satisfying.
Nothing worse than playing this type of game and your value generation is random and you lose / win because you happen to get worse / better cards.
To be honest, slow control was also often a non-interactive strategy for other players. Kill everything your opponent plays, when everything is totally clear, play massive greedy threats. It's a bit of a crummy thing to just play not to lose, and after some thought, I don't miss it.
I agree 100%. I find it funny when control players complain about “there’s no interaction” when during the times control was dominant, they were the only ones making plays while their opponents could do nothing to mount an offensive.
Hearthstone is great when your play style is doing well, and a complete mess when your play style can’t win.
I don't know that I agree. Slow control gets stomped by combo. So, if there is a decent combo deck in the meta you can choose that.
I also remember recently playing a slow control deck and I couldn't beat highlander hunter. I guess I would call that a mid-range deck. But, it relied on minions to some degree. A lot of those minions were hard to remove before they did their damage though. Point being, that you could beat a heavy control deck with either combo or the right mid-range deck. Only aggro really suffered. And to me that is how it should be. What we have now is a bit of a wreck IMHO.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the meta right now is great, it isn't. But I do like the idea of making control more proactive and pushing the archetype to try and close games quicker / have a win con at the expense of absolute safety
To be honest, slow control was also often a non-interactive strategy for other players. Kill everything your opponent plays, when everything is totally clear, play massive greedy threats. It's a bit of a crummy thing to just play not to lose, and after some thought, I don't miss it.
I agree 100%. I find it funny when control players complain about “there’s no interaction” when during the times control was dominant, they were the only ones making plays while their opponents could do nothing to mount an offensive.
Hearthstone is great when your play style is doing well, and a complete mess when your play style can’t win.
I don't know that I agree. Slow control gets stomped by combo. So, if there is a decent combo deck in the meta you can choose that.
I also remember recently playing a slow control deck and I couldn't beat highlander hunter. I guess I would call that a mid-range deck. But, it relied on minions to some degree. A lot of those minions were hard to remove before they did their damage though. Point being, that you could beat a heavy control deck with either combo or the right mid-range deck. Only aggro really suffered. And to me that is how it should be. What we have now is a bit of a wreck IMHO.
That’s my point though. Once they figure out these nerfs. Combo in standard will cease to exist again essentially. Blizzard usually strives to have combo decks go off for the 8 or 9th turn. Which is fine. I’m okay racing. What I don’t like is the uptick in combo busting cards that make reaching those turns futile. No fun when you think you’re about to go off and they drop a Mutanus on a key piece the turn before you do.
Highlander is a fun alternative, but it does nothing for Standard. I loved playing Mecha’Thun in Wild. Now it’s a liability. And even if Questlock gets the nerf, it goes back to being dealt with by a single card. Hopefully they leave Odd Quest Hunter alone. Been doing okay with that, but it will probably be the next nerf they call for.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Grammar is the difference between knowing your crap, and knowing you’re crap.
To be honest, slow control was also often a non-interactive strategy for other players. Kill everything your opponent plays, when everything is totally clear, play massive greedy threats. It's a bit of a crummy thing to just play not to lose, and after some thought, I don't miss it. I just think the current combo decks are a bit too fast and consistent though, too competitive against decks that normally beat that style of play, and I get people's argument that many cards will never see play because of the speed of the meta. Lastly, nothing should invalidate fatigue or generate infinite burn spells.
Agree 100%. I hated Control Warrior more than I hate anything in the Stormwind meta ... with the exception of the Warlock Questline, which is so stupid for so many reasons, the first being that Warlock has way too much healing right now, totally removing any real risk from the quest requirements.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I miss it so much I stopped playing. The sad thing is I don't see i getting much better. The current dev team just doesnt seem interested in making slow control strats viable anymore.
One of iksars fav decks in Wild is/was secret mage. Guess which deck is at the top of the stats for years n didnt see a nerf?
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No I don’t miss it, b/c I currently play it. I only play highlander control decks and easily reach rank Diamond 5.
I just found out yesterday that the new Tamsin hero skins have a unique voice line for when you play Twisting Nether.
It is cool as heck and nobody will ever hear it because nobody is playing Twisting Nether. And if you do play it in your deck, you'll never get to use it because the board of 8/8s you need to use it on just killed you at turn 6.
What a world we
liveplay in, huh?Sure, but it is what it is. Meta is super fast and aggressive now, so the only way to survive is to adapt to it (even Priest did that, creating probably the fastest aggro deck currently available!). And it's not like a single card, deck or class is responsible for that, it's Team 5's new design philosophy. They can nerf Warlock to the ground, but that won't change anything as there are many similar decks (Quest Mage, Quest Shaman, Quest Hunter, Secret Paladin and so on). Control (in the classic sense) is dead, so I'm trying to enjoy what's left of it and Handlock is probably the closest thing we can get, though Quest Shaman could also be a worthy candidate.
Yeah, I hear ya. I'm also just trying to adapt to how things are. I think a lot of people just share the sentiment that it's unfortunate the game has become what it is right now. Because a lot of cards will go unused since you just can't use them in a competitive deck. (Like my note above about Twisting Nether)
I mean, it's entirely possible that they release in future expansions or mini sets cards that boost the power level of control decks and make it more viable, but it's pretty unlikely given their vocalization of a faster games design philosophy.
Also, since most of the quest rewards are "game enders" in some way or another, until they rotate out of standard, games will always have an inevitable finish. Some faster than others.
None of those other decks make it impossible for control to win.
Quest Mage does need a hit, and I think Shaman needs their 1-drop elemental nerfed to 2 health. But it is possible to run them out of resources, Quest Mage does put a timer on you with Ignite but if you can put out enough chonky minions and force them to use their burn cards you can win.
Same with quest hunter. Their damage from hand in the best case scenario maxes around 24, so if you keep yourself high and keep board control you can beat them.
Secret pally just isn't a big deal tbh it's so easy to play around because you know the entire makeup of their deck and it's super easy to know what they're playing.
Warlock is about 70% of the problem facing control. You can't run them out of resources, because all that does is increase the damage they deal to you. And they don't need to worry about the board because they can throw 100% of their resources at your board, never hit you in the face once, and still win. The only thing you can do is pop their 2/5, or Stealer of Souls if they drop one early.
Quest Mage can OTK you, you can't fatigue her and she has infinite damage so you will die eventually. Quest Shaman, Quest Hunter and Bleed Rogue can OTK you too, so unless you can stack tons of armor, you will die no matter what.
Except you can't. Try to beat Quest Mage with Handlock (aka 100% board-based deck) and you'll see why. She will either freeze either destroy anything you play and then burst you down. You can only beat her with wide boards (zoo, tokens) or burst damage from hand, but control can't do any of that.
Unfortunately but no. Yesterday I was playing Quest Control Priest against Quest Hunter and he bursted me from 30 to 0 in a single turn...
If so, why Control Prest (aka the only real control deck in this meta) has so low win rates against all kinds of Paladin (Secret, Handbuff, Quest, even old Libram)?
Thing is, this matchup always will be polarized. No control deck can beat Warlock as long as he has quest or Tickatus. But take them away and Warlock won't win a single game against control decks, because he lacks burst damage and value generation. Board damage is not enough against control decks, because it's too unreliable.
Sure, but I don't really care about SoS. As for me, they can delete him from the game completely. I was talking about Handlock all that time.
I miss it so much I stopped playing. The sad thing is I don't see i getting much better. The current dev team just doesnt seem interested in making slow control strats viable anymore.
Try Handlock or Quest Shaman. They are as control-ish as they can be in this meta, maybe you'll like one of them.
To be honest, slow control was also often a non-interactive strategy for other players. Kill everything your opponent plays, when everything is totally clear, play massive greedy threats. It's a bit of a crummy thing to just play not to lose, and after some thought, I don't miss it. I just think the current combo decks are a bit too fast and consistent though, too competitive against decks that normally beat that style of play, and I get people's argument that many cards will never see play because of the speed of the meta. Lastly, nothing should invalidate fatigue or generate infinite burn spells.
I agree 100%. I find it funny when control players complain about “there’s no interaction” when during the times control was dominant, they were the only ones making plays while their opponents could do nothing to mount an offensive.
Hearthstone is great when your play style is doing well, and a complete mess when your play style can’t win.
Grammar is the difference between knowing your crap, and knowing you’re crap.
A .gif is worth a thousand words.
I don't know that I agree. Slow control gets stomped by combo. So, if there is a decent combo deck in the meta you can choose that.
I also remember recently playing a slow control deck and I couldn't beat highlander hunter. I guess I would call that a mid-range deck. But, it relied on minions to some degree. A lot of those minions were hard to remove before they did their damage though. Point being, that you could beat a heavy control deck with either combo or the right mid-range deck. Only aggro really suffered. And to me that is how it should be. What we have now is a bit of a wreck IMHO.
Galavant Animation
Control is the reason I play CCGs, aggro is just degenerate I don't know how anyone can enjoy it, and the combo decks in hearthstone today can't be interacted with which is stupid.
I truly miss the hour-long control vs control match-ups where each player is squeezing every drop of value they can find, it may seem boring but literally EVERY move, every card you play and when you play it effects the game. It's like a chess match and it's so satisfying.
Nothing worse than playing this type of game and your value generation is random and you lose / win because you happen to get worse / better cards.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the meta right now is great, it isn't. But I do like the idea of making control more proactive and pushing the archetype to try and close games quicker / have a win con at the expense of absolute safety
That’s my point though. Once they figure out these nerfs. Combo in standard will cease to exist again essentially. Blizzard usually strives to have combo decks go off for the 8 or 9th turn. Which is fine. I’m okay racing. What I don’t like is the uptick in combo busting cards that make reaching those turns futile. No fun when you think you’re about to go off and they drop a Mutanus on a key piece the turn before you do.
Highlander is a fun alternative, but it does nothing for Standard. I loved playing Mecha’Thun in Wild. Now it’s a liability. And even if Questlock gets the nerf, it goes back to being dealt with by a single card. Hopefully they leave Odd Quest Hunter alone. Been doing okay with that, but it will probably be the next nerf they call for.
Grammar is the difference between knowing your crap, and knowing you’re crap.
A .gif is worth a thousand words.
Agree 100%. I hated Control Warrior more than I hate anything in the Stormwind meta ... with the exception of the Warlock Questline, which is so stupid for so many reasons, the first being that Warlock has way too much healing right now, totally removing any real risk from the quest requirements.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
One of iksars fav decks in Wild is/was secret mage. Guess which deck is at the top of the stats for years n didnt see a nerf?