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What logic are you talking about ? By my logic meta is fine and nothing should be nerfed, aggro beats combo beats control beats aggro, business as usual
Who said aggro is the most played archetype ? Every meta ever
You do not have 0% winrate against quest decks as a control deck. Unless you can provide evidence for it, that's just bullshit. Evidence for 50% of your opponents being OTK would be nice too. Just in case you didn't know, quest mage and warlock aren't otk decks, at all. The fatigue warlock version kinda is but it's off meta so irrelevant.
Your choices are your own, meta does NOT force you to play aggro or quest. Hanbuff paladin is the third most powerful deck in the meta. Are you telling me this is an aggro deck ?
Some classes idd will be much weaker against midrange paladin. And that's totally fine if you ask me. The problem exists when you face a deck that you can't counter by any other means than your opp mistakes or worst hand possible.
If the reason behind a lost match-up is simply that he had a perfect hand or you didn't draw a card x on time then I don't think it justifies nerfing. It's just the nature of card games. In my opinion, it's fine if you have a 25% win rate against a specific deck. Maybe even 20%. The fact that you can win every 1 of 4 games should be enough to not leave the player hopeless, which if you ask me, is the most important thing when playing any video game. And its a double-edged sword really. I want to feel satisfaction when winning. Would you compete in a race against a very fat guy when the only reward was completing the run? Just a waste of time, no satisfaction, no nothing. Just like most HS games sadly.
Correct, by HoF i was referring to relegating the card to wild. Using the term is just an old habit i guess
Firstly, I will not provide you any evidence, I am talking about my experience in my ranks (4000+ Legend). You can believe it or not, your choice. Control will have 0% WR against any combo deck right now unless they hit quest reward with mutanus or your opponent screwes up or disconnects. These cases are irrelevant, as they are very rare.
Secondly. Quest warlock and quest mage are OTK decks. They have the possibility to do it. They also can kill you turn 6+. That is just wrong. OTK decks before gathered their pieces for much longer time, thus other non-aggro decks had the possibility to do their stuff too. The common problem for all these decks now (Mage, Warlock, Rogue, DH) is that they all have a massive cost-reduction mechanic or mana-regeneration mechanics, combined with very cheap and efficient draw. In my opinion, mass-cost discount card in the game should be massacred with nerfs. THey are just not healthy for the game.
Thirdly. If you call a possibility to choose ONE viable tempo deck - paladin (which also is an OTK deck BTW) a choice, you are just a troll.
For a long time I have had huge issues with Face Hunter/Aggro Hunter. I think it’s been untouched for way too long and has been relevant or a top tier deck for years which is inexcusable. I also believed elemental shaman was given too many tools during the mini set and should have some of its buffs reversed. However, quests like Mage/Warlock or OTK strategies like Garrote should not be the alternative as they are even less interactive than all-out aggro. What i’m trying to say is that there is a serious problem across the board because the idea of reaching turn 10 without dying is basically a pipe dream right now.
Blizz' own data is already showing Shaman and Hunter on top (Mage didn't even make the list). Losing against them must seem 'fair' because the perception of power creep seems to be avoiding those classes (more specifically: that style of play). We got accustomed to losing to fast, aggro decks because we believe that that they are fair and counterable. Are they, though? One can argue that control is being pushed out by combo decks but I looked at the card lists and the two are not a million miles apart. I think control is simply underpowered and has been for some time. Priest before nerfs doesn't count because that was control done wrong with no wincon later in the game.
Agreed on Battlemaster, it is very strong. I would look at Bannerman as well - tutor a minion and buff all minions in hand? That's strong.
My *wishes*:
"Buffs":
Renew - Heal 4 instead of heal 3. 3 health for 2 mana is pathetic and I don't think the card is that busted at healing 4.
Apotheosis - +2/+2 and lifeseal for 4 mana.
Nerfs:
Incanter's Flow: Reduce the cost of the next 4 spells you draw.
Refreshing Spring Water: 5 mana. Draw 2 cards, if you draw a spell refresh 3 mana.
Gadgetzan Auctioneer - Just remove it from the core set. Replace it with... I dunno... something mid-cost that generates some value.
Conviction - Bump it up to 2 mana.
Jewel kit - 2 charges instead of 3
Battlemaster - Battlecry: Give adjacent minions Windfury for this turn only
Remove Rockbiter Weapon from the Core Set. Replace it with I dunno, Totem Golem?
Doomhammer should probably have 5 charges instead of 8.
Stealer of Souls - First card drawn each turn costs health instead of mana.
Flesh GIant - Up to 10 mana
Darkglare - Probably up it's cost back up to 3 mana. Maybe make it a 2/2 or something stat inefficient too.
Warlock Quest - Add 2 health to every step of the quest. It's just too fast. There also just isn't enough risk involved with all the healing Warlock has.
Il'gynoth - Whenever your hero is healed through a lifesteal effect, deal 2 damage to the enemy hero. I don't like OTK DH at all. It's janky and dumb. 3 mana card.
I think that's all a good start.
So you want to buff refreshing spring water? Also, the battlemaster change does nothing. Usually you are deadl the turn they play it
I think they meant to say that if you draw a spell, you fresh 3 mana, once only. So this way it's more of a middle of the ground mana refresh and the card could be played in minion decks with spells as well.
And I sort of feel like maybe Battlemaster should be a higher mana cost already. Isn't a 5 mana 5/5 pretty baseline? With that effect it should probably be 6 or 7 mana, right?
Quest mage absolutely needs a nerf. It needs to have its quest increased to two spells of each category per phase.
Just make shuffle in to the deck all quest revards. It's fastest solution (not perfect but fastest for now), and then make tuning and balances some OP cards.
So it's finished on what... turn 14?
No. 3 mana flat. If you draw any spells at all. Not 3 mana per spell. Honestly I just don't like the card as a draw card. They could also bump it back down to 4 and do 1 mana per spell. (So 2-4, draw 2) but I think it works better as a 5 mana play. I think the more expensive the card is, the more fair it is, but I also think the more card draw you give mage, -particularly spell mage, the less interactive/fair it's going to be.
Battlemaster is mostly an issue in Paladin because of early game handbuffs and when it's used in combination with conviction. But as I say, I think this is good for a first round of buffs.
If you reintroduce control as an actual viable deck that doesn't lose a ton of the time to fast combo decks, then that's going to inherently just make Paladin worse because there'll be actual hard removal to deal with.
Oh okay so every deck in this plane of existence is OTK, good to know
There isn't a serious problem when it's intended design by Blizzard. I'm more surprised it took them so many years to actually achieve it.
Every deck is "uninteractive" for the decks it counters, i'm so tired of reading this word.
The problem with quest mage/warlock isn't their winrate. It's that they're extremely popular and they end games on turn 9 consistently. So they effectively are forcing decks completely out of the meta.
Also Quest Warlock is on that list anyway.
I dunno how you nerf Aggro Hunter really. I feel like a lot of the cards are core to Hunter overall. I also think maybe the aforementioned lack of control decks has really inflated Hunter's winrate. A lot of control decks match up well against aggro hunter (and handbuff Paladin for that matter) and they just don't exist right now.
Oh I know how to nerf hunter.
These are the problems:
Warsong Wrangler, Piercing Shot, Trampling Rhino
And they are not core
Disclaimer: I am citing HSReplay free statistics. They're not great, but they are better than nothing.
First of all we need to identify problems in the meta. You don't nerf random things just cause.
Wild Problems: Wild Questlock wins too fast and has inevitability too quickly.
Standard Problems: OTK decks choke out control decks.
Something in Wild Quest Zoolock needs to be nerfed not only because of power level concerns, but because of play patterns. Wild Quest Zoolock is one of the fastest decks in the format in terms of game length, but it is also bundled a win condition that oppresses any strategy that wants to go beyond turn 6 or so. Although Darkglare enables many of the very nutty plays that are considered mana cheating, the card that allows Wild Quest Zoolock AND Standard Quest Zoolock to be so good is actually Flesh Giant. Off mulligan on both versions, 8 mana flesh giant is either the best or second best Mulligan in the deck. Darkglare is also a significant problem, but flesh giant being such good payoff card is very concerning. That being said, I think the quest speed also be addressed somehow. Once you complete it, you basically win and very otk-esque wins are not ideal in Hearthstone. There's the very obvious nerf of increasing the damage that you need to take to complete the quest quite a bit which I think is going to happen.
Mage also has the win speed problem like Warlock. Just nerf Incanter's Flow to 3 mana and your spells cannot cost under 1. That WILL help make the mage wins feel slower as they will have a harder time cycling through their deck. Figure out what to do with mage afterwards. Honestly, this will kill mage but Flow is a feels bad card for the opponent.
You may think that the "solitaire" nature of the meta needs more for it to be fixed. I am cautiously optimistic that these changes would alleviate the solitaire issue as this change hurts the already declining decks, allowing space for control decks to pop up.
But at the same time, by removing mage from the equation, paladin becomes a problem since the only way to beat this class is rogue now. There are 3 contenders I want to mention. Alliance Bannerman, Conviction, and Battlegrounds Master. Alliance Bannerman is the highest win percent mulligan in the deck. Conviction and Battlegrounds Master are extremely powerful finishers and are reminiscent of Crabrider snowballs. I prefer nerfing Conviction to 2 attack just because the reach from Conviction often feels more unfair than Alliance Bannerman, but I feel like these nerfs could go any way.
Those are the most often talked about classes. I know that Garrotte Rogue is often talked about but it's proven itself to be trash. Now to other decks which are mostly aggro. I don't know what's the best cards to nerf to achieve equilibrium, but here we go.
Face Hunter - No clear power outliers but I think you are looking to nerf burn and aimed shot seems to be best burn card in the deck.
(Aggro) Elemental Shaman - 2 cards. Wailing Elemental and Granite Forgeborn. On play AND mulligan outliers. I would probably touch Wailing Elemental first as it sees play in more shaman decks and snowballing 1 drops are dangerous for the game. Doomhammer burn can be a problem, but I am a little more reluctant to nerf it since you either choose the doom hammer package or the whack package.
Rush Warrior - Let this one be for now. Old and simple to play archetype; people will probably not flock to this archetype enough for rush warrior to be a problem class.
Spell Druid - Will solve itself when people play removal again.
Aggro Priest - I mean, we haven't seen aggro priest be good ever. Cool archetype, folds vs super board decks. Don't touch the most interesting priest deck in the last couple expansions.
Quest Shaman - Don't touch for now mostly because complaints for this archetype are rare.
Quest Rogue - Not on the list of 10 decks to nerf, but this could be a problem if ALL mage, hunter, and shaman get nerfed. Very hard to determine what's the best thing to nerf. I would prefer a nerf to an outlier gizmo if there is one or the quest itself if there aren't outlier gizmos.
Spoiler Alert
Nobody in this thread will predict changes.
Plz just fuking destroy Battlemaster. if you don't clear every board, i mean every board from your opponent, then you die. No way around it. This card can't stay like this, it's absolutely broken
get rid of incanters flow and gadgetzan auctioneer
the first being absolutely abhorrent card design to begin with, but fiery war axe is still 3 mana... yeah makes perfect friggin sense... in fact get rid of all the mana cheat bullcrap, except for maybe the druid stuff, cuz that's its thing
those have been a plague for long enough