So considering the unstable state of the Stormwind meta, clearly nerfs of some sort are in order for the most dominant classes. As I see it, nerfs are necessary across the board and what I’m suggssting would be an initial round to hit Mage, Warlock, Rogue, and Paladin. Additional adjustments would probably be necessary for Quest Druid/DH/Hunter at a certain point, but I’ll avoid thinking too far ahead in terms of hypothetical changes. My ideas so far are as follows -
Incanter’s Flow :
Option 1 - “Decrease the cost of ARCANE spells in your deck by (1)”
Option 2 - Cost increase from 2 mana to 4 mana.
I have definitely seen the increase cost to 4 mana suggestion being thrown around on this forum plenty of times, which to me seems more like the nuclear option as far as nerfs go. And while I wont argue that it doesn’t deserve to be killed outright after all the issues it’s caused, the first option listed creates a more narrow and controllable pool of cards that don’t deal a ton of discounted damage.
Stealer of Souls:
Option 1 - 3 mana 2/5, Battlecry: the next card you draw this turn costs health instead of mana.
Option 2 - 4 mana 2/6, the next card you draw costs health instead of mana.
Both of the nerf options I’ve thought of scrap the recurring discount aspect of the card, which I believe is necessary given the combos it currently enables. I considered a version where the next card you played that turn would cost health instead of mana, but i think it’s crucial to avoid any situation where you can hold on to a huge card in your mulligan and play it way earlier than intended. I think both of these prevent any serious shenanigans until late in the game potentially in combination with Polkelt.
Gadgetzan Auctioneer:
Option 1 - Whenever you cast a spell that costs (1) or more, draw a card.
Option 2- Hall of Fame.
When it comes to this card, I definitely think a HOF would be justified as i don’t think it adds any value to the game except problematic combo scenarios, but I believe the first option would actually cover the bases of preventing infinite value/discount exploitation by rogues at the moment.No matter what though, the card should 100% be left out of the core set in the next rotation and hopefully never come back.
Alliance Bannerman:
Option 1 - Draw a CARD. give minions in your hand +1, +1
Option 2- draw a CARD, give minions in your hand +1 attack
Out of all the changes I’ve suggested, i’m not confident that either of these would really put Handbuff Paladin in a healthy place but I at least believe that drawing a card and not a minion should be a given considering how many minions this archetype runs as it is.I’m afraid that removing the health buff this card gives wouldn’t affect the multiple divine shield minions in this deck, but it’s a step in the right direction in my opinion.
And lastly, the recent nerfs to Renew and Apotheosis need to be reversed ASAP to even give priest a fighting chance. It’s unbelievable that those cards were changed when a set with this sort of power spike was about to be introduced in less than a month’s time, but even that I don’t see how that could change the complete futility of quest priest in this meta.
Did you listen to the vicious syndicate podcast? I think that while these are good suggestions for potential nerfs, the idea that nerfs are necessary is rather overblown. Furthermore, if you listed 7 of the 10 classes as most likely needing a change, then it might just be that none of them need a change. And I'm saying this a priest player.
As far as I know Blizzard use high legend data to decide if they want to nerf something and what it's going to be. And as far as I know again, none of the cards/decks you want to nerf are a problem in high legend. I could be wrong.
Option 3 : Wait for the nerfs, they have the data and they make the rules, we know nothing.
I agree with the Apotheosis unnerf. This was unfair and uncalled for, but blizzard don't like slow metas and many players don't either. Renew is where it should be at 2 mana.
Incanter’s Flow, as well as any other mana discounting card, should have "to the minimum of 1" added. To safe space they can even make it default behaviour unless explicitly stated otherwise on the card.
Did you listen to the vicious syndicate podcast? I think that while these are good suggestions for potential nerfs, the idea that nerfs are necessary is rather overblown. Furthermore, if you listed 7 of the 10 classes as most likely needing a change, then it might just be that none of them need a change. And I'm saying this a priest player.
I have not heard the VS podcast but these ideas would be more in line with Iksar’s comment a couple days ago regarding mass nerfs and a “power level reset”. I know he implied that it would take place during the set rotation but I think the unrest and dissatisfaction regarding the “turbo solitaire” state of the game is too prevalent to ignore until next year. Basically, I believe win conditions and OTK combos should never be viable before turn 10 and that the design philosophy of the Stormwind set was a mistake.
As far as I know Blizzard use high legend data to decide if they want to nerf something and what it's going to be. And as far as I know again, none of the cards/decks you want to nerf are a problem in high legend. I could be wrong.
Option 3 : Wait for the nerfs, they have the data and they make the rules, we know nothing.
I agree with the Apotheosis unnerf. This was unfair and uncalled for, but blizzard don't like slow metas and many players don't either. Renew is where it should be at 2 mana.
I don’t understand why Blizzard would want to cater to high legend as opposed to the vast majority of players being that it covers a minute fraction of the playerbase and their level of play is too advanced to cater to the average player. There are often pocket metas and tech options present in legend play that are totally irrelevant to 99% of players. That kind of reasoning is why priest was hit last month although Deathrattle DH was clearly sweeping through most other ranks at the time.
Did you listen to the vicious syndicate podcast? I think that while these are good suggestions for potential nerfs, the idea that nerfs are necessary is rather overblown. Furthermore, if you listed 7 of the 10 classes as most likely needing a change, then it might just be that none of them need a change. And I'm saying this a priest player.
Well then, either nerf many of those classes or buff underpowered classes like Priest.
Priest is not an underpowered class, aggro shadow Priest is one of the best decks out there. What you mean is that they should buff control Priest in particular...
Did you listen to the vicious syndicate podcast? I think that while these are good suggestions for potential nerfs, the idea that nerfs are necessary is rather overblown. Furthermore, if you listed 7 of the 10 classes as most likely needing a change, then it might just be that none of them need a change. And I'm saying this a priest player.
Well then, either nerf many of those classes or buff underpowered classes like Priest.
I’m not complaining, but I definitely think Stealer of Souls could have been a legendary card and it would have been more fair only being able to run 1. Also it’s ability is so powerful and unique I think it easily could have been a legendary. Compare it to Ghuun the blood god. 8 mana draw two they cost health. This card is 4 mana (could be less with reductions) and can apply to multiple cards.
There is a card that is a staple in all kinds of Quest Warlock in both standard and wild, as well as in non-quest Darkglare Warlock in wild. It's powerful, got even more powerful thanks to the intermediate quest rewards and noone is talking about it. I am looking at you Flesh Giant. This is one of the few giants in the game that can be discounted all the way to 0-mana and it's by far the easiest one to do so. I think bumping its cost to say 10 mana would be a fair nerf that would slow down a bit the early game of Quest/Glare Warlocks without killing the card or the deck
Incanters Flow CERTAINLY needs a nerf. Doesnt matter if the deck is tier 2 if it wins any matchup if it plays this card on 2, Keleseth-esque cards are the worst in the game design-wise. Everything else is fine, the meta has ways to counter itself.
Mage and Warlock need to be heavily nerfed, Priest needs a buff maybe a reverse of the cards hit last time
Ignite - Can only direct minions and not face damage
For ignite I at least would want to see how it would perform if it just shuffled another copy of the spell into the deck without the increased damage on top of it.
Mage: Flow - increase to 4 mana. Just destroy card. This is 2* Keleseth for mage only. Too good. Quest - Gives +2 SPD.
Warlock: Quest: +1 damage required for each step. Stealer of souls: the next card you draw this turn costs HP
Paladin: Conviction: +2 attack instead Weapon: fix it so if you transform or destroy minion without damaging, it shouldnt trigger buff.
Rogue: Octo-Bot: 1/3 Quest: 3 minions in first step
Shaman: 2/5 windfury guy - make it 2/4 Elem discount minion: make it 3/4
Neutral: BG Battlemaster: 6 mana
This would help a lot.
Ow, forgot about my boy OTK DH that is incredibly stupid non-interactive deck. Dont know how to fix it, I just want it gone and destroyed. Mby HoF the demon.
Some of these nerf suggestions are making me smh. Why all the desire to nuke cards out of existence? Incanter's Flow to 4? Give me a break. Also, practically no one seems interested in Shaman or Hunter nerfs? I'd wager the next vs report shows Shaman and Hunter as top tier while quest mage barely at 50% wr.
My two cents on nerfs: To line up with the Mage hate; Ignite initial damage set to 1, Arcanist Dawngrasp to +2 spell damage also seems reasonable. Stealer of Souls to 5 mana or 4 hp, Darkglare to 3 mana or 2 hp or both, Granite Forgeborn to 5 mana or make it a 3/4, Arid Stormed to 2/4, Aimed Shot to 4 mana and Piercing Shot to 5 damage. These suggestions imo seem fair and subtle while keeping the cards playable. Also, don't lose sight of Battlegrounds Battlemaster, this should not dodge the nerf bat, can easily be made 6 mana.
Food for thought; Tour Guide to 2 mana, this card is boasting over a 70% mulligan wr in some decks. Fringe suggestion: Cult Neophyte to 2/2, Wriggling Horror to 1/1
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So considering the unstable state of the Stormwind meta, clearly nerfs of some sort are in order for the most dominant classes. As I see it, nerfs are necessary across the board and what I’m suggssting would be an initial round to hit Mage, Warlock, Rogue, and Paladin. Additional adjustments would probably be necessary for Quest Druid/DH/Hunter at a certain point, but I’ll avoid thinking too far ahead in terms of hypothetical changes. My ideas so far are as follows -
Incanter’s Flow :
Option 1 - “Decrease the cost of ARCANE spells in your deck by (1)”
Option 2 - Cost increase from 2 mana to 4 mana.
I have definitely seen the increase cost to 4 mana suggestion being thrown around on this forum plenty of times, which to me seems more like the nuclear option as far as nerfs go. And while I wont argue that it doesn’t deserve to be killed outright after all the issues it’s caused, the first option listed creates a more narrow and controllable pool of cards that don’t deal a ton of discounted damage.
Stealer of Souls:
Option 1 - 3 mana 2/5, Battlecry: the next card you draw this turn costs health instead of mana.
Option 2 - 4 mana 2/6, the next card you draw costs health instead of mana.
Both of the nerf options I’ve thought of scrap the recurring discount aspect of the card, which I believe is necessary given the combos it currently enables. I considered a version where the next card you played that turn would cost health instead of mana, but i think it’s crucial to avoid any situation where you can hold on to a huge card in your mulligan and play it way earlier than intended. I think both of these prevent any serious shenanigans until late in the game potentially in combination with Polkelt.
Gadgetzan Auctioneer:
Option 1 - Whenever you cast a spell that costs (1) or more, draw a card.
Option 2- Hall of Fame.
When it comes to this card, I definitely think a HOF would be justified as i don’t think it adds any value to the game except problematic combo scenarios, but I believe the first option would actually cover the bases of preventing infinite value/discount exploitation by rogues at the moment. No matter what though, the card should 100% be left out of the core set in the next rotation and hopefully never come back.
Alliance Bannerman:
Option 1 - Draw a CARD. give minions in your hand +1, +1
Option 2- draw a CARD, give minions in your hand +1 attack
Out of all the changes I’ve suggested, i’m not confident that either of these would really put Handbuff Paladin in a healthy place but I at least believe that drawing a card and not a minion should be a given considering how many minions this archetype runs as it is. I’m afraid that removing the health buff this card gives wouldn’t affect the multiple divine shield minions in this deck, but it’s a step in the right direction in my opinion.
And lastly, the recent nerfs to Renew and Apotheosis need to be reversed ASAP to even give priest a fighting chance. It’s unbelievable that those cards were changed when a set with this sort of power spike was about to be introduced in less than a month’s time, but even that I don’t see how that could change the complete futility of quest priest in this meta.
Did you listen to the vicious syndicate podcast? I think that while these are good suggestions for potential nerfs, the idea that nerfs are necessary is rather overblown. Furthermore, if you listed 7 of the 10 classes as most likely needing a change, then it might just be that none of them need a change. And I'm saying this a priest player.
As far as I know Blizzard use high legend data to decide if they want to nerf something and what it's going to be. And as far as I know again, none of the cards/decks you want to nerf are a problem in high legend. I could be wrong.
Option 3 : Wait for the nerfs, they have the data and they make the rules, we know nothing.
I agree with the Apotheosis unnerf. This was unfair and uncalled for, but blizzard don't like slow metas and many players don't either. Renew is where it should be at 2 mana.
Incanter’s Flow, as well as any other mana discounting card, should have "to the minimum of 1" added. To safe space they can even make it default behaviour unless explicitly stated otherwise on the card.
I have not heard the VS podcast but these ideas would be more in line with Iksar’s comment a couple days ago regarding mass nerfs and a “power level reset”. I know he implied that it would take place during the set rotation but I think the unrest and dissatisfaction regarding the “turbo solitaire” state of the game is too prevalent to ignore until next year. Basically, I believe win conditions and OTK combos should never be viable before turn 10 and that the design philosophy of the Stormwind set was a mistake.
If anything approaching a control deck was even remotely plausible handbuff paladin wouldn’t even be on they radar.
I don’t understand why Blizzard would want to cater to high legend as opposed to the vast majority of players being that it covers a minute fraction of the playerbase and their level of play is too advanced to cater to the average player. There are often pocket metas and tech options present in legend play that are totally irrelevant to 99% of players. That kind of reasoning is why priest was hit last month although Deathrattle DH was clearly sweeping through most other ranks at the time.
Well then, either nerf many of those classes or buff underpowered classes like Priest.
Priest is not an underpowered class, aggro shadow Priest is one of the best decks out there. What you mean is that they should buff control Priest in particular...
very underpowered, indeed 😂
I’m not complaining, but I definitely think Stealer of Souls could have been a legendary card and it would have been more fair only being able to run 1. Also it’s ability is so powerful and unique I think it easily could have been a legendary. Compare it to Ghuun the blood god. 8 mana draw two they cost health. This card is 4 mana (could be less with reductions) and can apply to multiple cards.
There is a card that is a staple in all kinds of Quest Warlock in both standard and wild, as well as in non-quest Darkglare Warlock in wild. It's powerful, got even more powerful thanks to the intermediate quest rewards and noone is talking about it. I am looking at you Flesh Giant. This is one of the few giants in the game that can be discounted all the way to 0-mana and it's by far the easiest one to do so. I think bumping its cost to say 10 mana would be a fair nerf that would slow down a bit the early game of Quest/Glare Warlocks without killing the card or the deck
1. YT thumbnail claims deck is OP-OP, wow that never happens!
2. That's wild not standard: https://youtu.be/nsnUN1j_wqQ
3. Control Priest sucks ass, that's what most priest players want changed. There are so many other options if you want to play an aggro deck.
Mage and Warlock need to be heavily nerfed, Priest needs a buff maybe a reverse of the cards hit last time
Ignite - Can only direct minions and not face damage
Incanters Flow CERTAINLY needs a nerf. Doesnt matter if the deck is tier 2 if it wins any matchup if it plays this card on 2, Keleseth-esque cards are the worst in the game design-wise. Everything else is fine, the meta has ways to counter itself.
The game should just state that cards can't be reduced under 1 mana and 99% of all the problems would be fixed.
For ignite I at least would want to see how it would perform if it just shuffled another copy of the spell into the deck without the increased damage on top of it.
Mage:
Flow - increase to 4 mana. Just destroy card. This is 2* Keleseth for mage only. Too good.
Quest - Gives +2 SPD.
Warlock:
Quest: +1 damage required for each step.
Stealer of souls: the next card you draw this turn costs HP
Paladin:
Conviction: +2 attack instead
Weapon: fix it so if you transform or destroy minion without damaging, it shouldnt trigger buff.
Rogue:
Octo-Bot: 1/3
Quest: 3 minions in first step
Shaman:
2/5 windfury guy - make it 2/4
Elem discount minion: make it 3/4
Neutral:
BG Battlemaster: 6 mana
This would help a lot.
Ow, forgot about my boy OTK DH that is incredibly stupid non-interactive deck. Dont know how to fix it, I just want it gone and destroyed. Mby HoF the demon.
Some of these nerf suggestions are making me smh. Why all the desire to nuke cards out of existence? Incanter's Flow to 4? Give me a break. Also, practically no one seems interested in Shaman or Hunter nerfs? I'd wager the next vs report shows Shaman and Hunter as top tier while quest mage barely at 50% wr.
My two cents on nerfs: To line up with the Mage hate; Ignite initial damage set to 1, Arcanist Dawngrasp to +2 spell damage also seems reasonable. Stealer of Souls to 5 mana or 4 hp, Darkglare to 3 mana or 2 hp or both, Granite Forgeborn to 5 mana or make it a 3/4, Arid Stormed to 2/4, Aimed Shot to 4 mana and Piercing Shot to 5 damage. These suggestions imo seem fair and subtle while keeping the cards playable. Also, don't lose sight of Battlegrounds Battlemaster, this should not dodge the nerf bat, can easily be made 6 mana.
Food for thought; Tour Guide to 2 mana, this card is boasting over a 70% mulligan wr in some decks. Fringe suggestion: Cult Neophyte to 2/2, Wriggling Horror to 1/1