I think that if they just increased the quest reward cost, at least for the more problematic and "win the game"-rewards such as Warlock and Mage, that would be enough.
If increased to 7, or even 8, it doesn't allow the player to do his shennanigans, finish the quest AND play the reward, which in turn allows for a counter to their reward, in the form of Mutanus.
I play Mutanus in my quest control warrior deck, and I save him just for the moment when they have the quest reward in hand. Against warlock it's quite hard to get off, because of the nature of Stealer of Souls, or whatever the card is named, but other classes? Mutanus actually gives me a chance to counter it, at least as long as they don't finish the quest and play the reward until turn 7, which some classes can.
I think that if they just increased the quest reward cost, at least for the more problematic and "win the game"-rewards such as Warlock and Mage, that would be enough.
If increased to 7, or even 8, it doesn't allow the player to do his shennanigans, finish the quest AND play the reward, which in turn allows for a counter to their reward, in the form of Mutanus.
I play Mutanus in my quest control warrior deck, and I save him just for the moment when they have the quest reward in hand. Against warlock it's quite hard to get off, because of the nature of Stealer of Souls, or whatever the card is named, but other classes? Mutanus actually gives me a chance to counter it, at least as long as they don't finish the quest and play the reward until turn 7, which some classes can.
Only unexperienced players complete the Quest without playing the reward instantly.
I realy dont like the Idear. If you just increase the cost, then you still havnt fixed the main problem. There is no interaction with the decks. All Warlock and Mage is doing is to Clear the board without minions and try to survive until they can OTK you.
How do people really think that the quests themselves are the issue.
The quests aren’t what’s breaking the decks, it’s very specific cards themselves doing so.
Stealer of souls was just terrible by design, and was so obviously ripe for broken otk crap that it should never have been printed. It is the single issue with quest warlock, and just removing it from the game would bring that deck back down to earth.
Mages only issue is incanters flow. That’s it. It’s straight up better than keleseth was for that deck, and it’s not a legendary. Incanters was printed to push an archetype, and back then, it was seen as fine because the surrounding support wasn’t there yet.
It’s been there and is there now. Enough expansions have been released that have given spell mage a strong enough shell that the massive discounts coupled with insane card draw has caused the deck to hit a critical mass.
The release of ignite has also solved one of its biggest weaknesses in the fatigue issue, though I’m not sold on the fact that ignite needs a nerf, because I truly think flow is the main offender here.
Remove stealer, nerf flow to 4 mana or something, and the decks are fine. The goal is to nerf a deck to bring it in line, not kill it entirely like a lot of people want.
And hand all the last remaining power to Aggro decks ? LuL, Quest decks are already unfavoured against Face Hunter, Aggro Priest and Token Druids ....I guess Quests need a BUFF, instead ? :P
And hand all the last remaining power to Aggro decks ? LuL, Quest decks are already unfavoured against Face Hunter, Aggro Priest and Token Druids ....I guess Quests need a BUFF, instead ? :P
It's to be expected that combo decks are unfavoured against aggro in HS. The issue with such fast combo decks is that it shuts down the space for control/midrange, which simply leaves minimal deckbuilding space. Generally combo acts as a healthy limit on the slowness of control, and if that limit's too fast, control can't really exist.
I like this idea, but I think it shouldn't hit EVERY quest. Ones like Demon Hunter, Shaman, and Paladin aren't in that "overpowered" bubble, and making them cost 7 would just hurt them without them doing everything. I think personally Varden's fine at 5 mana, but Tamsin should be 7 or 8, even though I think the quest's not as good as everyone says.
How do people really think that the quests themselves are the issue.
The quests aren’t what’s breaking the decks, it’s very specific cards themselves doing so.
Stealer of souls was just terrible by design, and was so obviously ripe for broken otk crap that it should never have been printed. It is the single issue with quest warlock, and just removing it from the game would bring that deck back down to earth.
...
You do realize that Stealer of Souls is banned in Wild and Questline Warlock is as much of an issue there as well, so clearly the problem is the Questline itself.
How do people really think that the quests themselves are the issue.
The quests aren’t what’s breaking the decks, it’s very specific cards themselves doing so.
Stealer of souls was just terrible by design, and was so obviously ripe for broken otk crap that it should never have been printed. It is the single issue with quest warlock, and just removing it from the game would bring that deck back down to earth.
...
You do realize that Stealer of Souls is banned in Wild and Questline Warlock is as much of an issue there as well, so clearly the problem is the Questline itself.
"As well"? Quest warlock is sub-50% winrate in Standard, it's only a problem in Wild. It's not consistent at all in Standard.
i have 94% win rate witg paladin that dont use quest so sure nerf them so i can get 100% win rate... 16/1 with it i only lost to quest warrior becouse i had super bad drew...
Shaman should similar to Warlock have ALL LOCKED Mana Crystal be counted, instead of Playing several Cards (or just change Warlock to require Several Damage Instances instead)
Priest requirement should be lowered to about 2 Cards for each Phase if we keep the Cost thing the same (So 2-3 Cards, 3-4 Cards, and 4-5 Cards) to better compete with the other Classes, change the Reward from the useless Shard, to something meaningful like "all Priest Cards have Lifesteal" which at least would fit Priest´s theme of a HEALER pretty well (plus it would be a good Counter to many of the Damage dealing Cards)
You think it would be better to force a build around win condition to be countered by one card? I think that is a truly awful idea. If you don’t like mage and warlock, there are counters to both of them.
Do your own research. It’s all over HSreplay, VS and numerous pro Twitter accounts. Warlock and mage both get destroyed by face hunter. Tech against them, any deck running cult neophyte, far watchpost, ogremancer and robes will do much better than a counterpart not running them. If you are going against the more aggro or combo version of warlock, shadow priest destroys them. I’m not posting deck lists because deck lists are far from being settled, but for these decks are only oppressive against bad decks and decks that let them play solitaire until the quest is done.
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I think that if they just increased the quest reward cost, at least for the more problematic and "win the game"-rewards such as Warlock and Mage, that would be enough.
If increased to 7, or even 8, it doesn't allow the player to do his shennanigans, finish the quest AND play the reward, which in turn allows for a counter to their reward, in the form of Mutanus.
I play Mutanus in my quest control warrior deck, and I save him just for the moment when they have the quest reward in hand. Against warlock it's quite hard to get off, because of the nature of Stealer of Souls, or whatever the card is named, but other classes? Mutanus actually gives me a chance to counter it, at least as long as they don't finish the quest and play the reward until turn 7, which some classes can.
That's really great idea for easy fix. Couldn't agree more.
Only unexperienced players complete the Quest without playing the reward instantly.
Don't know about Mage, but that would kill Quest Warlock for good.
DH wouldn’t take a hit. The quest rewards are much better than the card you get at the end.
I realy dont like the Idear. If you just increase the cost, then you still havnt fixed the main problem. There is no interaction with the decks. All Warlock and Mage is doing is to Clear the board without minions and try to survive until they can OTK you.
Yeah I don't like this at all, I don't honestly think the actual quests are the problem.
I think they should start with nerfing Incanter's Flow, Stealer of Souls and HoFing Auctioneer and then see where things land from there.
And if there's further nerfs needed I would probably nerf the actual rewards or make the quests a little more challenging to complete.
Paladin also probably needs nerfs.
I don't see what good this nerf does, makes quest mage/warlock a little bit slower and literally kills all the other questlines.
I you nerf quest rewards to 7 mana then I will ask you to nerf Mutanus to 9 mana.
How do people really think that the quests themselves are the issue.
The quests aren’t what’s breaking the decks, it’s very specific cards themselves doing so.
Stealer of souls was just terrible by design, and was so obviously ripe for broken otk crap that it should never have been printed. It is the single issue with quest warlock, and just removing it from the game would bring that deck back down to earth.
Mages only issue is incanters flow. That’s it. It’s straight up better than keleseth was for that deck, and it’s not a legendary. Incanters was printed to push an archetype, and back then, it was seen as fine because the surrounding support wasn’t there yet.
It’s been there and is there now. Enough expansions have been released that have given spell mage a strong enough shell that the massive discounts coupled with insane card draw has caused the deck to hit a critical mass.
The release of ignite has also solved one of its biggest weaknesses in the fatigue issue, though I’m not sold on the fact that ignite needs a nerf, because I truly think flow is the main offender here.
Remove stealer, nerf flow to 4 mana or something, and the decks are fine. The goal is to nerf a deck to bring it in line, not kill it entirely like a lot of people want.
And hand all the last remaining power to Aggro decks ? LuL, Quest decks are already unfavoured against Face Hunter, Aggro Priest and Token Druids ....I guess Quests need a BUFF, instead ? :P
It's to be expected that combo decks are unfavoured against aggro in HS. The issue with such fast combo decks is that it shuts down the space for control/midrange, which simply leaves minimal deckbuilding space. Generally combo acts as a healthy limit on the slowness of control, and if that limit's too fast, control can't really exist.
I like this idea, but I think it shouldn't hit EVERY quest. Ones like Demon Hunter, Shaman, and Paladin aren't in that "overpowered" bubble, and making them cost 7 would just hurt them without them doing everything. I think personally Varden's fine at 5 mana, but Tamsin should be 7 or 8, even though I think the quest's not as good as everyone says.
You do realize that Stealer of Souls is banned in Wild and Questline Warlock is as much of an issue there as well, so clearly the problem is the Questline itself.
"As well"? Quest warlock is sub-50% winrate in Standard, it's only a problem in Wild. It's not consistent at all in Standard.
This is just Tickatus whining all over again
hm tbh it sounds like a good solution imho
Never thought about that change
i have 94% win rate witg paladin that dont use quest so sure nerf them so i can get 100% win rate... 16/1 with it i only lost to quest warrior becouse i had super bad drew...
I want some fixes for Shaman and Priest.
Shaman should similar to Warlock have ALL LOCKED Mana Crystal be counted, instead of Playing several Cards (or just change Warlock to require Several Damage Instances instead)
Priest requirement should be lowered to about 2 Cards for each Phase if we keep the Cost thing the same (So 2-3 Cards, 3-4 Cards, and 4-5 Cards) to better compete with the other Classes, change the Reward from the useless Shard, to something meaningful like "all Priest Cards have Lifesteal" which at least would fit Priest´s theme of a HEALER pretty well (plus it would be a good Counter to many of the Damage dealing Cards)
You think it would be better to force a build around win condition to be countered by one card? I think that is a truly awful idea. If you don’t like mage and warlock, there are counters to both of them.
Feel free to share said Decks so that others can counter both Classes effectively.
Do your own research. It’s all over HSreplay, VS and numerous pro Twitter accounts. Warlock and mage both get destroyed by face hunter. Tech against them, any deck running cult neophyte, far watchpost, ogremancer and robes will do much better than a counterpart not running them. If you are going against the more aggro or combo version of warlock, shadow priest destroys them. I’m not posting deck lists because deck lists are far from being settled, but for these decks are only oppressive against bad decks and decks that let them play solitaire until the quest is done.