Hearthpwn

Honestly, at this point I don't even care about the multitude of "salty much" comments this post will get, this is just a truth everyone knows at this point, which is honestly surprising considering how brief the card has been in the game for.

So, lets address the issue already: Ignite is extremely oppressive in its current form and pretty much shields Quest Mage from the literal only weakness the archetype truly has besides a few fringe hyperaggro decks that lose to everything besides it, while ALSO managing to, alongside Quest Warlock, pretty much just shut down any other possible control-oriented archetype. It should not have been given the option to go face and that's just a fact.

Now, the question I propose in this thread is simple: do you think this expansion will end up in another quick change like how Shudderwock received indirect nerfs back in Witchwood over being uninteractive, or will Blizzard let it slide due to how it is quite literally only a control killer and nothing else?

I suppose you never played WoW, have you? This is how Fire Mage’s Ignite worked before it got reworked in patch 8.3.5. I love it for the simple fact that I can destroy any opponent in a 1-2 turn or get destroyed before turn 7 by other Mage players. Imho this is the avg amount of turns (minutes if you wanna) hearthstone games should take. Wanna spend 15-20 mins playing a game? There’s always Wild where ResidentSleeperWarrior and 9999hp Priest reside. 
My $0.02

I agree with you, OP! I’ve heard a lot about the mage quest line being OP, but it’s really 90% because of Ignite in my opinion. 

Quote from SCWT_FTW >>

I agree with you, OP! I’ve heard a lot about the mage quest line being OP, but it’s really 90% because of Ignite in my opinion. 

 Yes, the quest isn't even necessary. Just a spell mage with Ignite is good enough. Even when I immediately remove the mage quest guy, I still lose to an infinite barrage of 2-mana pyroblasts.

They don't like to nerf new cards though. Maybe they'll nerf the spell discount card instead. 

ignite is not an issue, its the fact that quest mage only goes fast to spam it because of the massive amount of cheap spells.

Quote from Nepppy >>

ignite is not an issue, its the fact that quest mage only goes fast to spam it because of the massive amount of cheap spells.

 Ignite is the issue 100%. 

Spell mage’s largest drawback was its massive draw lead to early fatigue, combined with the fact that some decks like priest and warrior could tank the damage.

Ignite COMPLETELY nullifies this weakness. Not only does it completely remove their ability to ever fatigue, but they also have infinite damage because of it. 

It’s beyond oppressive. 

The big issue is cost reduction. Mage, warlock, and rogue can play things for free that should cost mana. Right now, there is way too much mana cheating in the game.

Quote from TheNameForgotten >>

The big issue is cost reduction. Mage, warlock, and rogue can play things for free that should cost mana. Right now, there is way too much mana cheating in the game.

 THIS. Theres nothing more game breaking in HS than wide hand/deck mana discounts, Incanters Flow on turn 2 is the highest winning play in standard by a very large margin. Why they keep making cards like Runed Mithril Rod is just beyond me, they rly dont care about balance at all.

Imagine playing cards for their full mana cost in 2021 PepeLaugh

Ignite ain't that op . But they removed Sorcerers Apprentice and mages just coin out Incanters Flow , which turns out to be better. 

SA at least you had to wait , keep it in your hand and wait till a combo turn . Infinite Fireballs and even freeze mage was more interactive. 

Incanters flow should go to 4 mana .

Quote from Ripgnite >>

I suppose you never played WoW, have you? This is how Fire Mage’s Ignite worked before it got reworked in patch 8.3.5. I love it for the simple fact that I can destroy any opponent in a 1-2 turn or get destroyed before turn 7 by other Mage players. Imho this is the avg amount of turns (minutes if you wanna) hearthstone games should take. Wanna spend 15-20 mins playing a game? There’s always Wild where ResidentSleeperWarrior and 9999hp Priest reside. 
My $0.02

 That's your opinion and there are others who think differently. If Team 5 wants HS to go in that direction, why even bother and print cards >6 mana? Everybody pays for the new expansion and we can't even play half the cards, because they're bad or they cost more than 5-6 mana.

It's the draw more than anything. Ignite is a weaker Forgotten Torch. (Which doubles it's damage after one use) But Mage these days, rather than just relying on Arcane Intellect has about 6 card draw cards it uses.

Cram Session, Refreshing Spring Water, Arcane Intellect, even neutrals like Gadgetzan Auctioneer see play in Quest Mage. They have like 5 fantastic card draw cards that they don't even use. And then like 2 more cycle cards than that that they also don't use. What class needs THIS MUCH versatile card draw?

On top of that, Incanter's Flow lets you cycle through resources EXTREMELY quickly. You can easily dump your hand and immediately refill it.

Quest Mage COULD be a tempo deck. It COULD be a control deck, where it uses the spell damage to power up it's removal effects to get to the late game. But no, it is ONLY a combo deck that cycles through it's whole deck to win.

I mean how often should "I mill myself and then blow you up" be a win condition really?

All of you are actually correct! It's not the mana cheating alone because you need a win con, it's not the cheap draw alone because you need to draw into a win con, and it's also not the burn alone because what does burn help if you never draw into it and reduce its cost to make it playable early enough? The problem is that there are classes who have access to all three of these at the same time.

That's also why I will take a break from the game. I might just do my quests occasionally and look for Mercenaries game mode, but this game has become way too broken overall for my taste. And that's coming from a combo player. I don't want to play Yu-Gi-Oh again.

There is no easy solution to this because you would have to nerf/change so many cards that I wouldn't even assume that nerfing quest rewards to 7 mana (+1/+1 in stats maybe) is sufficient. Changing Flow to 4 is not enough because Octobot can do it too, changing card draw from one class will not do anything for card draw from another one. So the only potential way out of this, aside from a general questline nerf, which will never happen anyway because of high amount of dust refund, is to nerf the win conditions of all classes at the same time. And by that, I don't mean necessarily the mana cost, but the damage output. Ignite to 1 damage, Garote shuffles fewer cards or cards that deal less damage, all spell damage giving cards should cost at least at base 2 mana, etc.. If you want to nerf Flow, it's not the mana cost, it's the effect that has to change. "Reduce the cost of the top 5/10/whatever number you can think of spells by 1" would be far more balanced and less reliable.

Personally I think that incanters flow is the main reason why spell mage is over tuned. I don't really have any big problem with these decks, but if you like infinite value decks, you might want to find an new game :)

ignite is the most braindead card ever created, it shouldn't be able to go face, for me this is the worst expansion launch I've ever experienced it's honestly worse than when dh was added to the game...

You know if you developp a board they're gonna have to ignite your minions right ? Cause they're dead if they don't, cause they don't have hard removal or massive board clears.

The massive issue in standard right now is that people REFUSE to have to make any decision or change to their deck/playstyle in order to counter meta. If they get destroyed, it has to be the meta's fault, it absolutely cannot be a skill problem. Well, sorry, but it is for the most part.

I'm sure 1 or 2 cards will get nerfed as usual, probably not the ones you expect, and it won't change how much you complain about the game or how strong the UiS set is overall.

Now, having said that, I will agree with one thing, that card draw is a concern for the future of the game. It just feels weird playing shaman or priest decks who have "normal" amount of card draw, versus the other classes who can essentially draw through their entire deck consistently and quickly. Resource management is very different now. I don't know if it's really worse, I mean it's worse for shaman and priest, but other than that, it just feels different than it used to a few years ago. But this is NOT a UiS issue, this has been going on for a while. Probably started all the way back in Kobolds expansion when they introduced Aluneth in a class that historically could barely draw anything and was heavily relying on freeze effects to buy enough time to draw cards.

Ignite is 100% problematic, in my opinion. The card should not offer infinite face damage.

Also, I thought Ignite in WoW was the DoT you applied to your target when you crit with a fire spell? It shouldn't be a card like this. Maybe it should have been designed more like garrote was? It's good damage, but it's finite.

Anyway, if they're going to keep printing cards that just shoot your opponent from your hand, we need to raise the health cap or something. Games are over too fast like this.

Or maybe some more minions that "protect" your hero from direct damage, or reduce it. That would create situations where people still need to make decisions about how to use their spells, or play more minions to trade.

Isn't that what HS is supposed to be about?

Quote from Pherosizm >>

Or maybe some more minions that "protect" your hero from direct damage, or reduce it. That would create situations where people still need to make decisions about how to use their spells, or play more minions to trade.

 Poor taunt feels so outdated now. 

Where is Bolf Ramshield 2.0?