Warlock has a class winrate below 50% and is the 6. Best class... op for suuuure. Best classes are pala and shaman by the way, with mage at the third place. Both paladin and shaman do play minions.... but the meta “is dominated by uninteractive decks”...
both of them can easily kill you between turn 6 and 8 (or earlier), but the quests winning the game around turn 8 are problematic...
Both of them (at least the bubble pala) and face Hunter will destroy your greedy control decks.... let’s nerf the damn quests??!
Miracle rouge can be even faster in killing people .... but surely the quests are op...
i don’t state that no balance patch is necessary, but especially the warlock quest has many bad matchups, while quest mage farms the quest locks which increases its winrate (the deck has some pretty bad matchups too). I do not think that the warlock one needs any nerf, and the mage one I am not sure about either. Rouge might need one, and aggro will take care of the quests. They will be less popular, but viable counters to greed - like they should be. If the quests would lose to greed, there wouldn’t be a point in playing them and giving up a card in your starting hand and your turn 1 play. They will decrease in popularity after the try new flashy things meta is over and people will start playing good decks
You are pulling from sources that are heavily skewed because of people still experimenting with decks etc. Do you honestly think the 73% for winrate for elemental shaman on hsreplay atm is accurate? If yes, i don't know what to tell you :D Heck, it even says on the mulligan breakdown page for the deck that there is 'not enough data to be accurate'
Bubble pally absolutely does not have a chance against a semi-skilled player piloting quest warlock or mage, or even a bad player who is highrolling. It is a strong deck for sure, but it does not hold anything against mentioned decks, let alone miracle rogue. If you actually played the game in the past 2-3 days, you would know ladder is absolutely infested with quest mages and warlocks right now.
Your whole way of 'explaining' things in this topic and your way of responses tell me you are just doing this for attention, and posting whatever is mostly directly opposing the post you are quoting. Well, here, you got some attention, happy now?
Or you have to accept that there are people with different opinions then yours. You state this here without any stats to help your case, while I have at least some. When the winrate of the whole class is beneath 50 it’s petty unlikely to be due to player skill. I started the thread and made my opinion clear as the first one here. So who is the one always opposing the post above? I did t change my opinion since the beginning. I just don’t let people state wrong things without arguing against it. I do not need your attention, I do not even know who you are and I couldn’t care less. The attention I want/need/ whatever you wanna call it I get in real life. Maybe it says more about your need for attention if you a) don’t have any real arguments besides stating bla bla your wrong and b) start getting personal because I do not share your opinion on the expansion
What OTK decks are y'all talking about ? I'm near diamond 10 in both formats and haven't seen any (from UiS) yet.
People like to radically change terminology.
Basically, people think a completed quest=otk because apparently OTK=A fast clock now.
The only real deck that’s SOMETIMES pulling off a true OTK is miracle rogue that highrolled. But they’re generally allowed to do so because so many people are playing these bad, non board centric strategies, allowing such decks to have all the time in the world.
Everyone’s so afraid to let mages play frost spells that it’s opening up an entire meta that allows greedy combo decks to thrive.
Handbuff Paladin absolutely destroys most of the decks being ran right now, as most of the people you’ll run into are running greedy lists.
I see, that's what I thought, they actually think quest warlock/hunter/mage are OTK decks somehow. Like it doesn't matter they've been hitting your face for the past 12 turns, they landed the killing blow that one last turn so it must be OTK !
And I was definitely having great success with my handbuff paladin deck last night, I was honestly quite surprised how well it could handle most quest decks, they just don't run enough removals to clear 20-25 huge minions and the handbuff is quite consistent now so you don't get into situations where you do literally nothing for 8 turns and wait for that one top deck. Makes more sense now that you've explained why.
Have you seen people specifically avoid playing minions to counter mage frost spells or are you just assuming this is the reason ?
Lastly, could I get a link to that OTK rogue deck ? I don't understand how it's made. I'm assuming it's some sort of Garrote combo but how are they getting 30+ damage out of it ? I tried to theorycraft it, no luck, I came up with a weird and cool deck but definitely not OTK
There are actually quite a few otk’s in this set, two of which I am currently running. There’s the DH otk with Jace Darkweaver that clears the board and gives you over 20 atk, deals 8 damage to face with Fel Barrage, and gives you Metamorphosis. And there’s the Shaman otk with Bolner, Y’sharji, and Dunk Tank/Circus Medic. You play Dunk Tank 3-4 times corrupted and then get the same amount back plus whenever you play a Cirus medic you get two more back to your hand that cost zero.
Oh yes that's right Jace can kinda OTK, though many times I had to play him before I could play all my fel spells, and fel barrage went off when there was still a board, and I couldn't save the ranked spell until turn 10. So realistically Jace is more of a Reno + board clear and some face damage if you're lucky, but I get your point. I am lacking the epic minion that draws a fel spell, maybe that's why the deck felt a bit slow to me, even with a lot of card draw.
I didn't know about the shaman one, I'm also lacking Bolner I guess that's why. Quick questions how to you get 4 dunk tanks before playing Yshaarj (discover ?) and how do you play Bolner and Yshaarj on the same turn (guessing lightning bloom why you never know) ?
Wait, when you play Bolner into Yshaarj into 0 mana Circus medic, the Circus medic will recast Yshaarj battlecry and refill your hand with more medics for infinite damage right ? Do you even need Dunk tank ? edit : board space I get it
Yes you run out of board space so you will need a few Dunk Tanks if they have full health or armor.
You get extra Dunk Tanks with Diligent Notetaker. Also, the Auctioneers Gavel can reduce Y’sharji down to 8 or lower if lucky. But you can always use Lightning Bloom which is searchable through both Primordial Dungeoneer and Investment Opportunity. And Y’sharji can be searched through Taelon Fordring. It’s a very consistent deck but not super fast
How can people say with a straight face that players are "still experimenting"? We have OTK combos by turn 5-6 with multiple classes. Do you think those OTKs will magically disappear with more experimenting?
Like... this community never ceases to amaze me. Just admit that there are design flaws in this expansion and quick nerfs are needed to fix it.
It’s not about wether it’s possible to otk on 6 or not. It’s about wether it’s consistent and viable or not. And it does not look like things like the warlock quest are actually good. They are overplayed and overhyped
Do you guys now understand why aggro is important for the game? Its for THIS.
Combo is out of control cuz there is no strong aggro getting them in check, think VERY HARD before you EVER complain about aggro again!
Teh brave Facehunter spotted, feels his unholy Opportunity and time has come now to go out of his way and comment, after years of getting shamed and blamed. x'D Priceless
Problem is, when they eventually nerf combo decks, making them slower or less consistent (or both), aggro will simply take their place, killing everyone on turn 6-8, instead of 4-6... I think the whole game is broken at this point, because damage output is just too high in relation to max health, but addressing this issue would require 40-50 cards to be changed or max HP to be increased by 10-20, though Team 5 will never do that.
Meta won't be healthy ever again without balance between aggro, control and combo. Game needs all of them to be viable and old Team 5 knew that...
Individuals have diverse opinions. To acknowledge their differences is bearable. To ridicule another's perspective because of your juvenile school of thought is an embarrassment on your character. If you think differently and agree to disagree you're a progressive member of society. Your immature dialect leads me to believe you are a "cry baby" as well.
There was never a case of popularity of card sets that stopped you from playing yes? Wouldn't you agree? Of course you would. A normal person would. So why are you so disturbed? You given no information as to what was said and made an argument for it.
So give yourself another chance to demonstrate yourself in better shape. Please tell us what opinions you've heard that you simply couldn't accept that weren't yours?
Claiming that stuff is op when it isn’t (or even if it would be, it’s to early to tell) and claiming it’s op not based on stats. Stats don’t lie. They did not lie with tickatus either. Still people kept claiming it being op. Same happens here. No stats yet to show that eg lock quest is op. But crying on the forum about it
Do you guys now understand why aggro is important for the game? Its for THIS.
Combo is out of control cuz there is no strong aggro getting them in check, think VERY HARD before you EVER complain about aggro again!
As a combo player? Kind of. Combo preys on slow decks, so in theory you're right! But in this case, combo is out of control because it's reliable and fast. Combo traditionally is notably slower, or when going off T5-6 is significantly less reliable.
Of course, aggro has its place keeping greedy in place in a healthy (HS) metagame. Same as combo has its place preying on greedy control and making sure they're actually able to add some pressure.
If you use HSreplay stats for exemple, the statspublicly available are limited to gold - bronze, which has a much lower skill ceiling than diamond/ legend/ high legend.
As a result, aggro's winrate is always overestimated, because a bad mulligan and a bad deck is less punishing for aggro than other deck types. And this is consistent, the top deck on hs replay has almost always been an aggro deck, and yet in many cases, pro didn't bring any aggro deck in tournaments.
There are also several other points as to why hs's replay's stats aren't reliable, but i'm not going to make an essay.
Many of the old legendary quests from Un'goro and Uldum also can be completed very early and have a massive impact on the rest of the game (btw you wouldn't believe how good Carnassa has become), but people didn't complain as much about it back then. What has changed ? Are the 7/7 too powerful compared to old quest rewards ? Or is it the first and second reward before the 7/7 that make the decks too consistent and not that much of a drawback to sacrifice 1 card in the opening hand ?
I'm just trying to understand I don't have any opinion on this matter just yet, it's too soon for me. It seems like ordinary aggro is still indeed crushing quest decks as it should be, and control has an ok-ish chance against aggro as always.
Aren't people overreacting a little bit ? Maybe people just got bored of the 1 mana start of hand quest mechanic as a whole and projecting this onto the new questlines.
My main gripe right now isn't that most questlines are overplayed, it's that DH and Shaman questlines seem way harder to complete than the rest of the questlines (sorry priest questline you just don't exist and we hate you for it), for worse rewards. I mean the end reward of shaman is cool and all but you're out of cards when you get there and the two first rewards are average at best, it's hard to find the perfect balance between low curve cards to complete the quest quickly and high curve cards to benefit from it. DH I mean, we all knew it was coming, you draw cards that draw more cards and make other cards that draw cards cost 2 less mana, great, at least I get some mana reduction and can pretend I'm aggro.
I've been having fun with my unstoppable Sword of a Thousand Truths Demon Hunter.... I'm pretty sure every win I have is due to opponent misplays. But honestly I'm surprised Elwynn Boar has a not completely useless standard deck he can hang out in.
I WANT to have fun with Quest Priest, but every single person concedes before I play the kill your opponent card, because I usually don't even need the card at that point to win. Also generally you just lose.
Many of the old legendary quests from Un'goro and Uldum also can be completed very early and have a massive impact on the rest of the game (btw you wouldn't believe how good Carnassa has become), but people didn't complain as much about it back then. What has changed ? Are the 7/7 too powerful compared to old quest rewards ? Or is it the first and second reward before the 7/7 that make the decks too consistent and not that much of a drawback to sacrifice 1 card in the opening hand ?
I'm just trying to understand I don't have any opinion on this matter just yet, it's too soon for me. It seems like ordinary aggro is still indeed crushing quest decks as it should be, and control has an ok-ish chance against aggro as always.
Aren't people overreacting a little bit ? Maybe people just got bored of the 1 mana start of hand quest mechanic as a whole and projecting this onto the new questlines.
My main gripe right now isn't that most questlines are overplayed, it's that DH and Shaman questlines seem way harder to complete than the rest of the questlines (sorry priest questline you just don't exist and we hate you for it), for worse rewards. I mean the end reward of shaman is cool and all but you're out of cards when you get there and the two first rewards are average at best, it's hard to find the perfect balance between low curve cards to complete the quest quickly and high curve cards to benefit from it. DH I mean, we all knew it was coming, you draw cards that draw more cards and make other cards that draw cards cost 2 less mana, great, at least I get some mana reduction and can pretend I'm aggro.
I think DH quest is meant to be run with C’thun. Five extra cards keep you drawing and not decking out, plus reducing the cost on C’thun pieces is vital.
Plus Shaman is easy to complete the quest, since the first reward unlocks your overloaded mana and Guidance is now included as an overload card.
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Or you have to accept that there are people with different opinions then yours. You state this here without any stats to help your case, while I have at least some. When the winrate of the whole class is beneath 50 it’s petty unlikely to be due to player skill. I started the thread and made my opinion clear as the first one here. So who is the one always opposing the post above? I did t change my opinion since the beginning. I just don’t let people state wrong things without arguing against it. I do not need your attention, I do not even know who you are and I couldn’t care less. The attention I want/need/ whatever you wanna call it I get in real life. Maybe it says more about your need for attention if you a) don’t have any real arguments besides stating bla bla your wrong and b) start getting personal because I do not share your opinion on the expansion
and by the way, if people are experimenting that much, how do you know which decks are broken?
Yes you run out of board space so you will need a few Dunk Tanks if they have full health or armor.
You get extra Dunk Tanks with Diligent Notetaker. Also, the Auctioneers Gavel can reduce Y’sharji down to 8 or lower if lucky. But you can always use Lightning Bloom which is searchable through both Primordial Dungeoneer and Investment Opportunity. And Y’sharji can be searched through Taelon Fordring. It’s a very consistent deck but not super fast
Yeahhhh no.
How can people say with a straight face that players are "still experimenting"? We have OTK combos by turn 5-6 with multiple classes. Do you think those OTKs will magically disappear with more experimenting?
Like... this community never ceases to amaze me. Just admit that there are design flaws in this expansion and quick nerfs are needed to fix it.
It’s not about wether it’s possible to otk on 6 or not. It’s about wether it’s consistent and viable or not. And it does not look like things like the warlock quest are actually good. They are overplayed and overhyped
Do you guys now understand why aggro is important for the game? Its for THIS.
Combo is out of control cuz there is no strong aggro getting them in check, think VERY HARD before you EVER complain about aggro again!
Teh brave Facehunter spotted, feels his unholy Opportunity and time has come now to go out of his way and comment, after years of getting shamed and blamed. x'D Priceless
best meta ever.. great time and exciting decks
Problem is, when they eventually nerf combo decks, making them slower or less consistent (or both), aggro will simply take their place, killing everyone on turn 6-8, instead of 4-6... I think the whole game is broken at this point, because damage output is just too high in relation to max health, but addressing this issue would require 40-50 cards to be changed or max HP to be increased by 10-20, though Team 5 will never do that.
Meta won't be healthy ever again without balance between aggro, control and combo. Game needs all of them to be viable and old Team 5 knew that...
Individuals have diverse opinions. To acknowledge their differences is bearable. To ridicule another's perspective because of your juvenile school of thought is an embarrassment on your character. If you think differently and agree to disagree you're a progressive member of society. Your immature dialect leads me to believe you are a "cry baby" as well.
There was never a case of popularity of card sets that stopped you from playing yes? Wouldn't you agree? Of course you would. A normal person would. So why are you so disturbed? You given no information as to what was said and made an argument for it.
So give yourself another chance to demonstrate yourself in better shape. Please tell us what opinions you've heard that you simply couldn't accept that weren't yours?
Claiming that stuff is op when it isn’t (or even if it would be, it’s to early to tell) and claiming it’s op not based on stats. Stats don’t lie. They did not lie with tickatus either. Still people kept claiming it being op. Same happens here. No stats yet to show that eg lock quest is op. But crying on the forum about it
As a combo player? Kind of. Combo preys on slow decks, so in theory you're right! But in this case, combo is out of control because it's reliable and fast. Combo traditionally is notably slower, or when going off T5-6 is significantly less reliable.
Of course, aggro has its place keeping greedy in place in a healthy (HS) metagame. Same as combo has its place preying on greedy control and making sure they're actually able to add some pressure.
Just played 5 Mage in a row. Very diverse and healthy meta for sure.
They do lie actualy (out of context demonstration below).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVG2OQp6jEQ&t=16s
If you use HSreplay stats for exemple, the statspublicly available are limited to gold - bronze, which has a much lower skill ceiling than diamond/ legend/ high legend.
As a result, aggro's winrate is always overestimated, because a bad mulligan and a bad deck is less punishing for aggro than other deck types. And this is consistent, the top deck on hs replay has almost always been an aggro deck, and yet in many cases, pro didn't bring any aggro deck in tournaments.
There are also several other points as to why hs's replay's stats aren't reliable, but i'm not going to make an essay.
Combo decks as fast as facehunters cannot be good for the game. I expect some adjustments soon, so we facehunters again can smorc in peace.
Many of the old legendary quests from Un'goro and Uldum also can be completed very early and have a massive impact on the rest of the game (btw you wouldn't believe how good Carnassa has become), but people didn't complain as much about it back then. What has changed ? Are the 7/7 too powerful compared to old quest rewards ? Or is it the first and second reward before the 7/7 that make the decks too consistent and not that much of a drawback to sacrifice 1 card in the opening hand ?
I'm just trying to understand I don't have any opinion on this matter just yet, it's too soon for me. It seems like ordinary aggro is still indeed crushing quest decks as it should be, and control has an ok-ish chance against aggro as always.
Aren't people overreacting a little bit ? Maybe people just got bored of the 1 mana start of hand quest mechanic as a whole and projecting this onto the new questlines.
My main gripe right now isn't that most questlines are overplayed, it's that DH and Shaman questlines seem way harder to complete than the rest of the questlines (sorry priest questline you just don't exist and we hate you for it), for worse rewards. I mean the end reward of shaman is cool and all but you're out of cards when you get there and the two first rewards are average at best, it's hard to find the perfect balance between low curve cards to complete the quest quickly and high curve cards to benefit from it. DH I mean, we all knew it was coming, you draw cards that draw more cards and make other cards that draw cards cost 2 less mana, great, at least I get some mana reduction and can pretend I'm aggro.
I've been having fun with my unstoppable Sword of a Thousand Truths Demon Hunter.... I'm pretty sure every win I have is due to opponent misplays. But honestly I'm surprised Elwynn Boar has a not completely useless standard deck he can hang out in.
I WANT to have fun with Quest Priest, but every single person concedes before I play the kill your opponent card, because I usually don't even need the card at that point to win. Also generally you just lose.
Start maining Cheesemonger. It’s an easy 4-8 extra free cards to counter Mage plus it soft locks them down.
I think DH quest is meant to be run with C’thun. Five extra cards keep you drawing and not decking out, plus reducing the cost on C’thun pieces is vital.
Plus Shaman is easy to complete the quest, since the first reward unlocks your overloaded mana and Guidance is now included as an overload card.