I never started a thread before, but this time i just had to. Too many people complaining about probably the most fun and fresh expansion ever. Lots of new decks, meta far from figured out - and people already claim this or that is broken - with no statistics or anything as proof. It’s impossible to tell before the end of next week what’s actually too strong and what’s just feeding on bad built decks. I never had that much fun on a release and I am here since old gods. I don’t want to play old hearthstone. I want new stuff, I want to play many cards and I want crazy combos. I love fast matches, I like playing aggro, combo and control - and all of this is possible (at least in wild). Great job from the devs.
Meta is never figured out day 1/2/3. even if you find success with rouge right now it might change when people start playing it and other people start counterqueing. And if something is really broken, there will be nerfs - probably next week
Well, I don't, I want to play a long, drawn out control game where both players get to do stuff and interact with each other.
I'm glad you're having fun, but a lot of people aren't, because they also want to play slower games. These are the "cry babies".
Maybe a little more constructive feedback would make their complaints more useful, sure, but the point is that the meta is still very fast and it's unlikely to suddenly change after a few more days of playing.
We'll see, anyway.
EDIT: I should add, the problem is mostly standard, I guess. In wild I can see control games being more likely to happen. But standard has fewer options for survival.
I'd say Team 5 finally broke the game. Over the past 2-3 years damage output has tripled, but max HP is still the same. There's no "safe zone" anymore, you can be 30 and still die on turn 7. On top of that, most of the damage comes from hand, so minion combat is pretty much redundant.
The worst is, that you can't just change 2 or 3 cards to fix it. At this point their whole design is flawed and honestly, I believe this will be the breaking point for Hearthstone, where many people will just move on, leaving it behind. I'm not sure if the game will survive this.
Well, I don't, I want to play a long, drawn out control game where both players get to do stuff and interact with each other.
I'm glad you're having fun, but a lot of people aren't, because they also want to play slower games. These are the "cry babies".
Maybe a little more constructive feedback would make their complaints more useful, sure, but the point is that the meta is still very fast and it's unlikely to suddenly change after a few more days of playing.
We'll see, anyway.
EDIT: I should add, the problem is mostly standard, I guess. In wild I can see control games being more likely to happen. But standard has fewer options for survival.
We need Reno back, seriously.
Even with no other synergy whatsoever I'd like to see him back. He deserves it way more than Auctioneer, who's been a terrible design limitation since he was born.
Agreed completely. There are definitely some balance changes to be made, but that is pretty much a constant. Folks would do well to remember, that there will literally always be cards and decks outperforming a majority of others, and banning those cards just elevates the next best cards to "broken" status.
I'll never forget the time someone seriously advocated for a nerf to chillwind yeti. He wrote this whole diatribe about how Innervate plus the four cost was horribly broken, and how the druid hero power added the extra point to get past Sen'jin Shieldmaster while still having a living yeti, at which point the game was essentially over.
Inevitably, there will be tweeks to rogue and mage, possibly hunter as well though I'm not convinced there yet. While we wait, this is a meta where at least seven decks have a serious chance at high legend. There have been far worse lacks of deck diversity in the past.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
https://hsreplay.net/replay/ESR4KXVtEHxMttJwH9wUVe yeah. so much fun. will the game end on turn 4, on turn 5 or on turn 6? you never know! sometimes it even takes 7 turns, but i feel like this is very rare nowadays. finally we can enjoy the game it was meant to be played: 3 minutes or less while not having to interact with your opponent at all. it's just who draws his crazy broken win condition faster.
i played 8 games so far with selfmade decks. 6 times i got killed by face hunter, rougue or mage, then i switched to this degnerate warlock deck. one win, next game the one on the replay. not a single one of those 8 games reached turn 10.
Agreed completely. There are definitely some balance changes to be made, but that is pretty much a constant. Folks would do well to remember, that there will literally always be cards and decks outperforming a majority of others, and banning those cards just elevates the next best cards to "broken" status.
I'll never forget the time someone seriously advocated for a nerf to chillwind yeti. He wrote this whole diatribe about how Innervate plus the four cost was horribly broken, and how the druid hero power added the extra point to get past Sen'jin Shieldmaster while still having a living yeti, at which point the game was essentially over.
Inevitably, there will be tweeks to rogue and mage, possibly hunter as well though I'm not convinced there yet. While we wait, this is a meta where at least seven decks have a serious chance at high legend. There have been far worse lacks of deck diversity in the past.
It isn’t that decks are overpowered that’s the problem though. It’s the fact that every deck is either hyper aggro or some sort of combo deck that has close to unlimited removal. This makes playing midrange or control decks nearly impossible as midrange just immediately loses to the hyper aggro decks and control loses to the combo decks.
I just find the game to be so mindless now. Every single deck just seems to rely on its draw to see whether it wins or loses. There was a time when you’d have to play around or anticipate what your opponent was going to do or save cards for certain scenarios. That’s not the case anymore. Every deck just focuses on smashing their opponent in the face or drawing to a combo. The combo decks have so much cheap removal that they never need to worry about saving it because they have so much more. I genuinely cannot remember the last time I felt like I was fighting for board in a non-arena game.
It’s not just this expansion. It’s been heading this way for a long time. Scholomance and Darkmoon Faire both had some cards that were awful for the game imo but Forged in the Barrens was a genuinely horrible expansion and this one seems even worse. Blizzard seems to want this to be the direction that the game is heading though. I’m not really sure why.
https://hsreplay.net/replay/ESR4KXVtEHxMttJwH9wUVe yeah. so much fun. will the game end on turn 4, on turn 5 or on turn 6? you never know! sometimes it even takes 7 turns, but i feel like this is very rare nowadays. finally we can enjoy the game it was meant to be played: 3 minutes or less while not having to interact with your opponent at all. it's just who draws his crazy broken win condition faster.
i played 8 games so far with selfmade decks. 6 times i got killed by face hunter, rougue or mage, then i switched to this degnerate warlock deck. one win, next game the one on the replay. not a single one of those 8 games reached turn 10.
That's by design. Don't forget, activision is appealing to the crowd COMPLETELY obsessed with finishing games waiting in line for trains or taking a poop on the toilet. I call the pooper players.
They dont want fun and interactions. They need to fill quick adrenaline fix and have the game won by turn 5. It's unfortunate but pooper players not only want but NEED to squeeze control styles of play. Basically if you play standard, don't collect the sets. Stick to cards that cost say, 5 mana or less and you should be fine. Anything more expensive than that and you can just forget about it seeing the light of day in game.
If you want more control styles of play come down to wild. Inevitably, butt hurt pooper players who lose in standard will try to come down to our format to try to farm wins, but there's a shit-ton of more control friendly decks here at least. Plus you don't have to give up your collection every time a rotation hits so you can legitimately invest money and time into cards.
This one still tickles me to this day. Seems outdated and not needed anymore. I'm glad they compromised on him at least but really, if they reverted him back fully I doubt he'd affect the meta much if at all. Pooper players would deem him "too slow". By the time he can kill any minions worthwhile, your probably already dead anyways and the game's over. Why they were so scared of this card in TODAY'S meta I'll never understand.
I just know a lot of similar complaints were being voiced as I repeatedly climbed to high legend with Silas/Ashtongue Warrior, which, while technically being a combo deck, is one of the most controllish possible combos the game has ever seen.
Lately, I'm starting to suspect my continued enjoyment of Hearthstone has a lot to do with my OTHER multiplayer game of choice. I strongly recommend Hearthstone players to take up chess for an interesting comparison. Whenever RNG starts to get annoying, drop back to the game with dead zero randomness, and Hearthstone gets refreshed a bit . . . at least for me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Agreed completely. There are definitely some balance changes to be made, but that is pretty much a constant. Folks would do well to remember, that there will literally always be cards and decks outperforming a majority of others, and banning those cards just elevates the next best cards to "broken" status.
I'll never forget the time someone seriously advocated for a nerf to chillwind yeti. He wrote this whole diatribe about how Innervate plus the four cost was horribly broken, and how the druid hero power added the extra point to get past Sen'jin Shieldmaster while still having a living yeti, at which point the game was essentially over.
Inevitably, there will be tweeks to rogue and mage, possibly hunter as well though I'm not convinced there yet. While we wait, this is a meta where at least seven decks have a serious chance at high legend. There have been far worse lacks of deck diversity in the past.
It isn’t that decks are overpowered that’s the problem though. It’s the fact that every deck is either hyper aggro or some sort of combo deck that has close to unlimited removal. This makes playing midrange or control decks nearly impossible as midrange just immediately loses to the hyper aggro decks and control loses to the combo decks.
I just find the game to be so mindless now. Every single deck just seems to rely on its draw to see whether it wins or loses. There was a time when you’d have to play around or anticipate what your opponent was going to do or save cards for certain scenarios. That’s not the case anymore. Every deck just focuses on smashing their opponent in the face or drawing to a combo. The combo decks have so much cheap removal that they never need to worry about saving it because they have so much more. I genuinely cannot remember the last time I felt like I was fighting for board in a non-arena game.
It’s not just this expansion. It’s been heading this way for a long time. Scholomance and Darkmoon Faire both had some cards that were awful for the game imo but Forged in the Barrens was a genuinely horrible expansion and this one seems even worse. Blizzard seems to want this to be the direction that the game is heading though. I’m not really sure why.
The only new deck I've found so far that can survive the onslaught of removal and aggro (sometimes), fights for the board in a fairly oldschool way and can potentially kill the new range of combo decks before they go off like a mid-range deck needs to is divine shield paladin. The deck kinda builds itself, but it isn't cheap, you need a lot of legendaries. There is elemental shaman of course as well, that builds like a midrange deck, but in reality plays out like an aggro deck.
There is probably more...new meta and all that. But every other midrange deck i've tried mixing in what seem like decent new cards on paper can't fight for the board well enough to get in chip damage against quest decks.
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I never started a thread before, but this time i just had to. Too many people complaining about probably the most fun and fresh expansion ever. Lots of new decks, meta far from figured out - and people already claim this or that is broken - with no statistics or anything as proof. It’s impossible to tell before the end of next week what’s actually too strong and what’s just feeding on bad built decks. I never had that much fun on a release and I am here since old gods. I don’t want to play old hearthstone. I want new stuff, I want to play many cards and I want crazy combos. I love fast matches, I like playing aggro, combo and control - and all of this is possible (at least in wild). Great job from the devs.
Well, meta is figured out, it's Roguestone and it's just a matter of time before people know it.
Meta is never figured out day 1/2/3. even if you find success with rouge right now it might change when people start playing it and other people start counterqueing. And if something is really broken, there will be nerfs - probably next week
I’m really loving my Pirate Warrior deck… it’s fast and consistent!
And I.....just want to play Minions again, man.
Well, I don't, I want to play a long, drawn out control game where both players get to do stuff and interact with each other.
I'm glad you're having fun, but a lot of people aren't, because they also want to play slower games. These are the "cry babies".
Maybe a little more constructive feedback would make their complaints more useful, sure, but the point is that the meta is still very fast and it's unlikely to suddenly change after a few more days of playing.
We'll see, anyway.
EDIT: I should add, the problem is mostly standard, I guess. In wild I can see control games being more likely to happen. But standard has fewer options for survival.
We need Reno back, seriously.
I'd say Team 5 finally broke the game. Over the past 2-3 years damage output has tripled, but max HP is still the same. There's no "safe zone" anymore, you can be 30 and still die on turn 7. On top of that, most of the damage comes from hand, so minion combat is pretty much redundant.
The worst is, that you can't just change 2 or 3 cards to fix it. At this point their whole design is flawed and honestly, I believe this will be the breaking point for Hearthstone, where many people will just move on, leaving it behind. I'm not sure if the game will survive this.
the meta is SUPER fast. Everyone is racing towards a goal. Every deck has a win condition that is inevitable..
control is dead right now
Even with no other synergy whatsoever I'd like to see him back. He deserves it way more than Auctioneer, who's been a terrible design limitation since he was born.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
I'm seeing mostly decks with very little interaction and not much counter play.
Great meta...
Lol. The meta being figured out is defined as when people know it.
I have to admit, that I build my first mill rogue with adition of
Maestra of the Masquerade (the card, which hides that you are rogue until playing rogue card).
But otherwise I have to say, that warlock quest is BS. Mage and Hunter seems also very strong (hunter in wild in combination with Baku OP).
But overall I'm looking forward to new decks and if I don't like the new meta, I will play Battlegrounds.
Agreed completely. There are definitely some balance changes to be made, but that is pretty much a constant. Folks would do well to remember, that there will literally always be cards and decks outperforming a majority of others, and banning those cards just elevates the next best cards to "broken" status.
I'll never forget the time someone seriously advocated for a nerf to chillwind yeti. He wrote this whole diatribe about how Innervate plus the four cost was horribly broken, and how the druid hero power added the extra point to get past Sen'jin Shieldmaster while still having a living yeti, at which point the game was essentially over.
Inevitably, there will be tweeks to rogue and mage, possibly hunter as well though I'm not convinced there yet. While we wait, this is a meta where at least seven decks have a serious chance at high legend. There have been far worse lacks of deck diversity in the past.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Remember big game hunter nerf? :D
https://hsreplay.net/replay/ESR4KXVtEHxMttJwH9wUVe yeah. so much fun. will the game end on turn 4, on turn 5 or on turn 6? you never know! sometimes it even takes 7 turns, but i feel like this is very rare nowadays. finally we can enjoy the game it was meant to be played: 3 minutes or less while not having to interact with your opponent at all. it's just who draws his crazy broken win condition faster.
i played 8 games so far with selfmade decks. 6 times i got killed by face hunter, rougue or mage, then i switched to this degnerate warlock deck. one win, next game the one on the replay. not a single one of those 8 games reached turn 10.
It isn’t that decks are overpowered that’s the problem though. It’s the fact that every deck is either hyper aggro or some sort of combo deck that has close to unlimited removal. This makes playing midrange or control decks nearly impossible as midrange just immediately loses to the hyper aggro decks and control loses to the combo decks.
I just find the game to be so mindless now. Every single deck just seems to rely on its draw to see whether it wins or loses. There was a time when you’d have to play around or anticipate what your opponent was going to do or save cards for certain scenarios. That’s not the case anymore. Every deck just focuses on smashing their opponent in the face or drawing to a combo. The combo decks have so much cheap removal that they never need to worry about saving it because they have so much more. I genuinely cannot remember the last time I felt like I was fighting for board in a non-arena game.
It’s not just this expansion. It’s been heading this way for a long time. Scholomance and Darkmoon Faire both had some cards that were awful for the game imo but Forged in the Barrens was a genuinely horrible expansion and this one seems even worse. Blizzard seems to want this to be the direction that the game is heading though. I’m not really sure why.
That's by design. Don't forget, activision is appealing to the crowd COMPLETELY obsessed with finishing games waiting in line for trains or taking a poop on the toilet. I call the pooper players.
They dont want fun and interactions. They need to fill quick adrenaline fix and have the game won by turn 5. It's unfortunate but pooper players not only want but NEED to squeeze control styles of play. Basically if you play standard, don't collect the sets. Stick to cards that cost say, 5 mana or less and you should be fine. Anything more expensive than that and you can just forget about it seeing the light of day in game.
If you want more control styles of play come down to wild. Inevitably, butt hurt pooper players who lose in standard will try to come down to our format to try to farm wins, but there's a shit-ton of more control friendly decks here at least. Plus you don't have to give up your collection every time a rotation hits so you can legitimately invest money and time into cards.
This one still tickles me to this day. Seems outdated and not needed anymore. I'm glad they compromised on him at least but really, if they reverted him back fully I doubt he'd affect the meta much if at all. Pooper players would deem him "too slow". By the time he can kill any minions worthwhile, your probably already dead anyways and the game's over. Why they were so scared of this card in TODAY'S meta I'll never understand.
I just know a lot of similar complaints were being voiced as I repeatedly climbed to high legend with Silas/Ashtongue Warrior, which, while technically being a combo deck, is one of the most controllish possible combos the game has ever seen.
Lately, I'm starting to suspect my continued enjoyment of Hearthstone has a lot to do with my OTHER multiplayer game of choice. I strongly recommend Hearthstone players to take up chess for an interesting comparison. Whenever RNG starts to get annoying, drop back to the game with dead zero randomness, and Hearthstone gets refreshed a bit . . . at least for me.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
The only new deck I've found so far that can survive the onslaught of removal and aggro (sometimes), fights for the board in a fairly oldschool way and can potentially kill the new range of combo decks before they go off like a mid-range deck needs to is divine shield paladin. The deck kinda builds itself, but it isn't cheap, you need a lot of legendaries. There is elemental shaman of course as well, that builds like a midrange deck, but in reality plays out like an aggro deck.
There is probably more...new meta and all that. But every other midrange deck i've tried mixing in what seem like decent new cards on paper can't fight for the board well enough to get in chip damage against quest decks.