Hearthpwn

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

I suppose the card reveal thing could go away if content creators continue to use them as ammo for statements against the company (and I don't mean that as a judgment, just that that's how Blizzard will see it).

I can't really see it going much further than that in terms of changing things.  I'm sure Activision will hire some new "sensitivity coordinator" or some other good-sounding position in the hopes that they get some positive spin over it.  There might even be a firing or too, though more often than not, even that small a result is hard to come by.

Regardless, the show will go on.  It's embarrassingly difficult to mobilize groups of people in the name of any moral cause unless it demonstrably effects the group directly, seriously, and frequently.

 They'll just give it to the lower streamers who don't have Fuck You Money. Plenty to go around.

Or the based non-Westerners who don't give a shit.

You know, I rarely write any comments but this goes too far sometimes

To begin with, I personally work in a company with my direct tech manager being a woman. She’s a very skilled professional and nobody doubts that. She (and actually all other women I worked with before) were paid as much as they deserved and that wasn’t due to the fact they were women or something like that, true equality is not giving a **** regarding their sex or any other property but treating everyone equally until they do something to tarnish their own reputation

i don’t promote or defend harassment in any way but that should be reported and solved locally. These guys just want to make some money out of it, that’s all

That said, I actually want to raise another point that contradicts what I just said a little but yet my opinion here is as objective as possible. The point is as simple as that: if 
I’ve worked hard my entire life to build a more or less successful business, why the hell does anyone think they have a right to tell me how to run it? I can hire whomever I want and pay them however I find suitable (provided it was agreed with the person) and I CERTAINLY DON’T have to explain to anyone the underlying reasons. It’s my business and I run it however I like. I don’t have to explain why I pay a person or a group of people less or more, I don’t have to explain why I hired this person and didn’t hire that one and I sure as hell don’t have to make sure there’s any kind of inclusiveness in MY company. You don’t agree? Ok, get a business and run it your way but don’t tell me how to run mine

Huh, that’s all, folks, I know it pertains the topic only partially but I wanted to speak up

And, important, of course anything I said above doesn’t have anything to do with breaking the law. If one breaks the law, they have to face the music, no doubt on that

Galakrond, assuming for a moment that was a genuine post and not a troll, I'll treat the questions as if they were not rhetorical.

One of the responsibilities with which we have, for better or worse, entrusted our government is the general administration of economic activity.  That manifests in all sorts of ways, from taxing business transactions to zoning different areas for different types of economic activity (commercial, industrial, government, etc) to licensing distribution of various products for different reasons (alcohol with the avoidance of serving to minors, chemicals that might otherwise be illegal except for very specific uses).  That list barely scratches the surface of all the different ways government regulates business.

In the United States, there's a bloody history culminating in the Civil War outside the court and still raging today inside the court over whether or not freedom of association should extend to economic activity, and the overall answer is a resounding NOOOOOOO!  200 years of jurisprudence have reached the conclusion that you still have some small amount of discretion over the customers you serve (see gay wedding cake case), but have very little leeway in the employees you hire and the reasons you fire.  Any other legal eagles out there who feel like taking issue with that statement, please keep in mind I'm boiling 200 years into one paragraph.

Having said all that, you DO have the ability to reward groups for productivity, experience, etc. but what you CAN'T do is use those excuses when you can't substantiate them with any hard evidence like production quotas and other performance metrics.

There are folks who believe freedom of association is a more important principle than diversity and equal protection considerations, and that government should take a more hands-off approach.  However, in 2021, the trend is definitely in the opposite direction.

Quote from SLima >>

I'm really shocked by the comments in this thread. Like, really people? You can't just put the card reveals aside for a moment to care about a problem that is causing deep suffering to people all over the world? Because this isn't some isolated problem or small incident. It happens everywhere on a daily basis. It's a problem in modern society. Yet, lots of people here seem to not just desire to disregard this in its entirety but they have to come here and post about it. They have to post how they don't care, how it doesn't affect them, how it is stealing their "dopamine dose" or some nonsense like that. Is this really the only dopamine source you have access to right now? You have nothing else to make you feel good in your free time? You really can't wait just a few days to see the cards? You really have to come here and act like a petty child who just had their favorite toy taken away for a few brief moments? If you don't care about what is happening then, at the very least, don't come online to post terrible messages because it's truly disgraceful to expose your own lack of empathy for other human beings. 

 Though I think a lot of the people you're responding to are trolling, I feel like it's worth pointing out that we sometimes could do well to remember this is a digital card game forum.  Not only is it most certainly a form of escapism, but a particularly solitary form of it.  And while some folks may do the whole "YOU NEED TO START CARING AND GET AWARE AND GET INVOLVED!!!" act when they find themselves particularly invested in a particular cause, no one spends 24 hrs a day engaged in fighting the good fight.

I take a lot of pride in putting my time and effort where my mouth is when it comes to prison reform, indigent representation, and especially my constant and unending crusade to frustrate all aspects of law enforcement in their efforts to make poverty a felony in my area.  However, I don't particularly want to have to deal with more such shit when I sign on to play a computer game.  That's just me.  I don't fault anyone who wants to go fight the fight on this, but I'm not going to be joining them.

Actually I take that back.  I DO fault all the virtue signalers who are going to pretend they are scandalized at how horrible Blizzard is . . . when the same people were dead silent during the Hong Kong protests, the layoffs, the . . . oh Christ, I'll be here all day if I have to type out all the garbage Activision Blizzard has pulled over the years.  If you spoke up back then or if you were too young and just now are coming into adult awareness of the world, I'll take you seriously.  Otherwise, I don't find the moral outrage very convincing.

Just for the record, yes I know that several of the folks here on this thread were equally vocal during some of the other issues I listed above.  I'm not referring to you folks.

well sorry but Activison Blizzard is a publicly owned company where share holders can buy and sell stock. that means they made the decision to have a committee make decisions for the company not the owner. the owner sold out to Activision a while ago so now THEY ARE accountable of how and who they hire and treat equally. Have you actual read the accusations? if you have and are still spewing idiot non sense than your a piece garbage who should be banned not only from this site but fired from your company. The sexual harassment training that we have to take every year obliviously got lost on you moron. This is the type of trash aggro hyper aggressive male nerds we all have to face on ladder and people like you have not only ruined the game that i used to love but you destroyed the work place with your man child opinions. 

Fu*** Blizzard and Hearthstone ... game has been trash for a while any ways not its time to move on

DING DING DING!

And Jagged Edge kindly illustrates exactly why there's a huge amount of skepticism at the new-found purity of streamers and content creators.

He literally said that just READING THE ACCUSATIONS should be enough to change your opinions on penalty of getting banned from this site, fired from your job (not the wrongdoers at Blizzard, but the posters on this forums jobs), and whatever other consequences are appropriate.

That's . . . insanity.  But unfortunately, it's also a common belief.  The accusations are all that is necessary to start taking action.  It's hard to believe people still have such a willingness to believe with no particular reason whatsoever.  And I hope this is obvious, but just in case, if a year from now we've had a trial and a bunch of evidence proving the allegations has come to light, that won't change a word of what I'm saying here.  I'll be very glad that justice was served, but I'll also be perfectly comfortable having said at the beginning, "accusations alone don't move me in the least".

By the way Jagged, your last two sentences about "hyper aggressive male nerds" on ladder and the same who have "destroyed the work place with your man child opinions" . . . you know you have that backwards, right?  The people with the bad opinions were the norm that built said workplace and said game and said . . . well, everything just about.  The change is in the other direction, as folks start to realize some of the flaws in the way we used to do things.  That's the whole #metoo mentality, at least among those who believe in it and aren't just out to make a buck.

There's definitely a long way to go, but the way you wrote that sounds like you think there was once some enlightened norm that is only now being threatened by the evil male nerds and man children.

Of course I want this problem to be resolved. I at the same time and just here to play a children's card game. If they wish to make a stand that's their choice. Its one I would not make if I had the honor of getting my own card reveals. 

The rest of us just need to continue standing up for whats right when we see it. We can do nothing on our keyboards this is between the state and Activision. 

Quote from P4dge >>

Quote from RolandofGilead >>

Quote from Pyrokinesis >>

I don't care about any of those i just want cards man

 I can say with 100% certainty that anyone up voting this comment is a white male, like me.

It's very hard to do, but I encourage anyone reading this to really imagine experiencing something like harassment or racism, and then you can be just a little bit less selfish, for the betterment of all.

 

"very hard to do"

Oh wow, how patronising and ignorant. I lived in an Arab country for a good part of my life, a country that legit has zero regard for rights like this. No HR. Nobody gives a shit if you're treated badly and I've had everything from not being able to shop in places because I'm white, being refused entry at 'normal' price, being removed from buses for insisting on paying the local price and not the white price, being openly talked about and laughed at on a personal and cultural level because they assume you don't understand the Arabic. Literally every day I'd have to give up in a shop, spend ages arguing about transport, ignoring the cat calls, weird noises and hisses made my way when I walked down the main street, having to take an escort with me to do X, Y or Z. When political riots kicked off, my uncle was targeted for being white and beaten to the point he later died. Yes, I know how it feels and no, Allie is doing fuck all to help anybody in that position. 

People like you love to pay yourself on the back at your computer screen. Get up and do something useful instead of preaching for Internet brownie points. 

 Amen

Quote from JaggedEdge16 >>

well sorry but Activison Blizzard is a publicly owned company where share holders can buy and sell stock. that means they made the decision to have a committee make decisions for the company not the owner. the owner sold out to Activision a while ago so now THEY ARE accountable of how and who they hire and treat equally. Have you actual read the accusations? if you have and are still spewing idiot non sense than your a piece garbage who should be banned not only from this site but fired from your company. The sexual harassment training that we have to take every year obliviously got lost on you moron. This is the type of trash aggro hyper aggressive male nerds we all have to face on ladder and people like you have not only ruined the game that i used to love but you destroyed the work place with your man child opinions. 

 Wow, Watch out! We have an adult over here...

Wow, ok I got to this topic late and so did a bit of skimming over the first 10 pages of this thread.

Unfortunately, I missed that comment by RolandofGilead that essentially stated the only people who could possibly be unconcerned about this topic are white males.

Skipping the long screed about how statements like that are some of the worst type of racism still permitted in polite society, I'll just say . . . no.  You're wrong.  Your conception of the woke minority as one voice is disgusting, infantilizing, and above all, incorrect.

Happens every day, no one cares.

All in all, a useful topic to figure if there’s a limit to the blocked user’s list.

Some of you deserve to experience harassment. I wish you the worst kind.

Quote from Kathranis >>

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

Quote from Sherman1986 >>

Quote from Pyrokinesis >>

People stop shoving this topic down my throat, I don't care about that girl i don't care about blizzard im here to get my goddamn dopamine from card reveals. i don't even play HS that much but i can't watch a stupid HS video witout getting OOOH MAN IT'S SO HARD FOR ME TO DO THIS STUFF WITH HS NOW SINCE THAT HAPPEND... I mean quit if you don't like it man, Toast at last had the balls to do it and stay true to his words

If all this shit turns out to be true, chances you won't get your "goddamn dopamine from card reveals" anymore are pretty high. Don't be silly, please, this affects everyone here. -.-

 What could you possibly mean by "chances you won't get your [dopamine] anymore are pretty high"?

Well, at this point, the fate of this game is more uncertain than ever. We don't know how exactly all this will affect Hearthstone, so I'm really worried about it too. Things can get very ugly for Blizzard and would likely have a huge impact in our beloved game. No more card reveals as we are used to? I don't know, call me extremist, but the possiblities are there.

Well, none of the complaints point to wrongdoing on the HS or OW teams, at least. It mainly focuses on the WoW and Battle.net teams, and issues with senior leadership on those teams, with incidents that date back as far as a decade or more.

The HS and OW teams, more now than ever, are comprised of a lot of new blood that came to the company more recently to work specifically on those games. So it's less likely they'd be subjected to the same work culture. There were also people (Dave Kosak for example) who moved from prominent roles on WoW to arguably smaller roles on HS. This is pure speculation but I wouldn't be shocked if it turns out that they changed teams to get away from that toxic work environment.

Hopefully they can clean house and move on. I want to be able to enjoy these games, and I want the creators to be able to enjoy making them.

Yeah, happy content creators probably equals to a much better Hearthstone and gameplay experience for everyone. We will see... :)

You make me laugh that’s all kiddo

Dont forget to finish your homework before going to school or you’ll be punished by your mum

Was that directed at me?  If so, sorry you don't like the answer to your question.  I don't particularly like it either, but that doesn't change the state of things.

That's a really weird insult, btw.  "Be a good student".  I guess it's the kid thing that's supposed to be insulting, but at this point, all I can say is "I wish".

Nope, it wasn’t directed at you, it was a response to the kid who called me a bunch of nasty words

Thought I clicked “reply” but looks like there’s a bug in the website

Regarding your response, I respect your point of view and your right to voice it however you like but I don’t agree with it

You see, my point is that I am supposed to have the freedom to run MY own business the way I like unless I violate the law (in that case, i should be held responsible for that). I don’t tell anyone how to live their lives, what to believe in and so on

This is pure hypocrisy to think otherwise, because you aim at making me live and do thing the way you trust to be right. But I don’t have to possess the same values, mindset, etc. I should have the right to think otherwise and do as I deem righteous as long as, again, I comply with the law

ah ok, sorry I missed the guy mouthing off.